posse-prototyping
LOGS
18:58:30 <mchua> #startmeeting
18:58:30 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Sep  2 18:58:30 2010 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:58:30 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:58:33 <mchua> #chair jadudm
18:58:33 <zodbot> Current chairs: jadudm mchua
18:58:48 <mchua> #meetingname posse-prototyping
18:58:48 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'posse-prototyping'
18:59:25 <mchua> #info Intent of this conversation - make POSSE more raptor-proof in case mchua gets hit by a raptor or eaten by a bus
18:59:59 <jadudm> OK.
19:00:02 <mchua> jadudm: Any initial thoughts? I'm more than happy to start by listening because I think the list (and you) have gotten my incoherent POSSE-thoughts spiel far too many times. :)
19:00:26 <jadudm> If I drop for a moment, its because someone walks in my door. :)
19:00:28 <jadudm> OK.
19:00:31 <jadudm> So.
19:00:49 <jadudm> I have never read this document:
19:00:52 <jadudm> #link http://www.iapss.org/downloads/publications/iapss_conference_manual.pdf
19:01:08 * mchua reads
19:01:12 <mchua> jadudm: noted, re: dropping for a moment.
19:01:37 <jadudm> That said, it's table of contents looks like it is an example of some of the kind of documentation that "google://organizing a conference" turns up.
19:01:54 <jadudm> And, its outline says to me "these are the kinds of concerns one has when organizing something conference-like"
19:02:00 <jadudm> Which, in my mind, a POSSE event is.
19:02:20 <mchua> Yep yep.
19:02:26 * mchua hunts for "how to organize a workshop" materials
19:03:05 <jadudm> Planning and organizing an annual conference, IEEE 1983:
19:03:07 <jadudm> #link http://kmh-lanl.hansonhub.com/pc-26-123-potvin2.pdf
19:03:14 <jadudm> Includes a flowchart.
19:04:34 * mchua also recalls kwurst talking about the conference he and his colleauges run around Worcester every year - they seem to have gotten the process down to a science.
19:04:44 <mchua> Event organizing isn't as easily cloned as code, though. :)
19:04:55 <jadudm> Sadly, it tends to be location/people specific.
19:05:00 <mchua> (that having been said, we can *definitely* do better - I want POSSEs to run *without* me dammit)
19:05:03 <mchua> Yeah...
19:05:08 <jadudm> That is, once you know to talk to Sara about such-and-such, you're all good at Location X.
19:05:21 <jadudm> BUT
19:05:49 <jadudm> I suspect what we want to aim for is the POSSE Planner's Guide. That guide would have Mad Libs-style fields for people in a given context.
19:05:53 <mchua> jadudm: how about workshops that people travel to give in different locations, that need to be adaptable and usable by different trainers?
19:05:56 * mchua nods
19:06:03 * mchua thinks of things like RHEL training (okay, I'm in Raleigh by the Red Hat office right now)
19:06:09 <jadudm> Good question.
19:06:19 <jadudm> Typically, trainers are getting paid.
19:06:32 <jadudm> They dictate what must be there, and if it isn't, then your org. is out some serious cash.
19:06:43 <jadudm> Eg. If you don't have the wifi that they wanted, too bad for you and your people.
19:07:20 * mchua nods
19:07:26 <jadudm> In the case of POSSE, that 'cost' is distributed across all the participants. If the wifi doesn't work, then it's all the people who came who "paid" that price.
19:07:40 <jadudm> From the hosting organization's perspective, it may have cost them nothing for that to fail.
19:07:45 <jadudm> Point being:
19:07:54 <jadudm> (Slight turn)
19:08:15 <jadudm> A necessary thing for a POSSE is wifi. Therefore, part of the planning process is that a series of boxes need to be checked.
19:08:19 <jadudm> [ ] Can wifi be provided?
19:08:21 <jadudm> Sorry.
19:08:24 <jadudm> [ ] Wifi can be provided.
19:08:41 <jadudm> [ ] Access for visitors completed 2 weeks in advance.
19:08:47 <jadudm> Etc.
19:08:58 <jadudm> And, the wifi "page" of the manual also has space for the following:
19:09:02 * mchua nods
19:09:09 <jadudm> Primary contact re: wifi access for POSSE: _________________
19:09:14 <jadudm> And so on.
19:09:17 <mchua> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/HOWTO_plan_a_POSSE#Find_space
19:09:25 <mchua> jadudm: That's a first stab at having something vaguely like that, but it's terrible.
19:09:39 <mchua> then again, better than nothing - and usually I just try to make things less awful every iteration. :)
19:09:52 <jadudm> Admittedly, there's still more there to be written, yes. :)
19:10:17 <mchua> Oh, plenty!
19:10:59 <jadudm> Hm.
19:11:15 <jadudm> So, how do we want to proceed...
19:11:41 <jadudm> A lot of info/experience is in your head. To some extent, this is about extracting experience from you.
19:12:02 <jadudm> Would doing some outlining on a 'pad make sense, starting from that document?
19:12:32 <jadudm> It might give us a better sense for what all needs thinking/filling in/exploration.
19:12:37 <jadudm> (It would help me, anyway)
19:12:43 * mchua nods
19:12:48 <jadudm> #link http://piratepad.net/xeiDDV1t01
19:12:51 * mchua heads over
19:12:53 <jadudm> (do we use piratepad.net?)
19:13:02 <mchua> jadudm: doesn't matter to me :) we can always dump to wiki afterwards
19:13:11 <jadudm> mchua: I assumed as much.
19:13:35 <mchua> jadudm: To some extent, I wonder if the thing to do would be to have someone who's *not* me organize a POSSE I *won't* be at (or maybe just visiting for a day) and build what they need as we go along.
19:13:54 <mchua> which started happening a bit for Worcester, RIT, South Africa, etc. as Karl and Steve and Michael started taking on some of the stuff I used to do.
19:13:57 <jadudm> That's an expensive process, and to a certain extent, I am that person.
19:14:03 <mchua> ...sir yes sir!
19:14:14 <jadudm> I'd like to (ultimately) organize something in the GLCA based on non-CS related POSSE activities.
19:14:25 <mchua> Aim at summer 2011, or 2012?
19:14:52 <jadudm> Could be 2011 or 2012... I have to have a conversation or two here about obtaining funding. I'd like it to be a fully-funded event for the participants, and I believe there are ways to obtain that.
19:15:12 * mchua nods
19:19:28 <mchua> jadudm: lines 14-21, I'm trying to simplify without leaving anything out. See anything direly wrong?
19:20:00 * jadudm is away for just a moment...
19:20:35 <mchua> np, I'll be here :)
19:21:58 <jadudm> #link http://culturematters.wordpress.com/2010/01/02/thoughts-on-conference-organizing/
19:22:02 * jadudm (still away)
19:24:00 * mchua chuckles. anthropology ftw.
19:24:26 <mchua> although there's truth in all satire (and I'm not... entirely sure where on the satire boundary this falls, but.. that just makes it better.)
19:45:11 <mchua> Hi, humph - long time no see, but just wanted to say I've been enjoying your Mozilla updates to the TOS planet.
19:45:41 <mchua> Will you be at Drumbeat? (I'm guessing so, though the scheduling is during the school year...) I'm hoping we can get someone from TOS to be there.
19:46:02 <mchua> jadudm: I'm going to move to another room, 'net connectivity may flicker momentarily but I'm still here.
19:48:33 <jadudm> mchua: I'm back.
19:48:38 <jadudm> mchua: That took longer than expected.
19:53:41 <mchua> jadudm: No worries! I'm back here too.
19:54:16 <mchua> jadudm: Lines 14-21 in the piratepad - can you think of a better component organization, or one I'm missing?
19:54:37 <jadudm> Hm.
19:54:44 <jadudm> Dunno. It's a good working list to start, certainly.
19:55:16 <jadudm> Let me think more...
19:55:53 <jadudm> #link http://www.creativityconference07.org/presented_papers/McWilliam_Unlearning.doc
19:55:56 * mchua nods
19:56:13 <mchua> jadudm: on a slightly meta-note - we clearly can't finish that document today... where do we want to head with this?
19:56:17 <jadudm> Perhaps not entirely related, but it's about challenging the "sage on stage" model of learning -- near the end of the article, she nearly says "productively lost"
19:56:21 <jadudm> exactly.
19:56:23 <jadudm> re: meta
19:56:26 <mchua> is the GCSP workshop you want to do a good milestone?
19:56:27 <mchua> Oooh.
19:56:35 * mchua learns stuff!
19:57:53 <mchua> I'm just sitting here swimming in the context of People Who Think This Way, Except Way Better Than I Do
19:58:04 * mchua loves just listening to professors talk and write to each other about teaching
19:58:09 <mchua> but aaaaanyway.
19:58:32 <jadudm> I think we should set up a work schedule, to a certain extent. Or, set a few concrete work goals and a next-meeting-time.
19:58:48 <jadudm> For example, it might be good to take one of those sections and break it apart into an itemized set of action items that someone following the manual could do.
19:58:57 <mchua> jadudm: thinking about milestones in my mind... there's the POSSE South Africa stuff coming up which we can use to try out things we come up with in the next few weeks, but I'd like to aim in a big way for SIGCSE.
19:59:01 <jadudm> This is rather detailed, but I'm thinking it might be easiest to flesh all of this out "bottom-up"
19:59:02 * mchua nods.
19:59:07 <jadudm> Ah.
19:59:08 <mchua> how do you mean?
19:59:25 <jadudm> well, bottom-up in this context would be "fill in all the detail for things, and slowly work back up to the big picture"
19:59:32 <mchua> Ahh, okay.
20:00:00 <mchua> Well, I know I'm going to have to work on the curriculum section for POSSE SA quite a bit, so I can easily start with that one.
20:00:05 <jadudm> Sounds good.
20:00:15 <mchua> It'll be pretty awful since I'm not used to writing curricula, but that's what the TOS list and ridiculous amounts of critique are for. :)
20:00:23 <jadudm> Sure.
20:00:44 <mchua> That, and re-reading syllabi I've enjoyed to see exactly why I like 'em.
20:00:46 <jadudm> I've currently got my students designing their own class (for the "Creativity and Leadership" course)... I mean, why not?
20:00:53 <mchua> ...ooh, really? AWESOME.
20:01:14 <jadudm> I'll start with... 3.6, possibly.
20:01:16 <mchua> jadudm: If they're going to do that, I could try doing the same assignment for the POSSE curriculum, just for fun, and throw it in there so they can pick apart my work, if that would be a good thing.
20:01:20 <mchua> 3.6?
20:01:27 <jadudm> "Find space"
20:01:31 <mchua> Ohhh, right.
20:01:33 <mchua> etherpad.
20:01:36 <jadudm> Sorry. :)
20:01:47 <mchua> for GCSP?
20:01:55 <jadudm> GLCA?
20:02:03 * mchua clearly has no brain today
20:02:06 <jadudm> That's OK.
20:02:07 <mchua> Yes. Yes. GCLA.
20:02:19 <mchua> I say "GC" and tab-complete in my brain.
20:02:28 <mchua> Thank you, Lynn Stein (Grand Challenge Scholars Program)
20:02:38 <mchua> and then... apparently I transpose letters, too.
20:02:45 <jadudm> Sorry, I'll be clearer. I'm going to spend time breaking apart the subhead "Find space" into an itemized series of "to dos" that have as much as I can think of regarding the kind of space needs a POSSE would have.
20:03:06 * mchua nods, that sounds great.
20:03:40 <mchua> I'll take the curriculum outline, such as it is, from http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_South_Africa#Topic_Schedule and start filling in details.
20:03:57 <mchua> There was a trio of things Mihaela mentioned would be good, when Karsten brought up the learning objectives stuff.
20:04:23 <mchua> I believe it was (1) learning objective (2) pedagogical plans for teaching that learning objective (3) assessment of that learning objective
20:04:48 <mchua> ...probably using the wrong terminology here, but basically "what they'll learn, how they'll learn it, how you'll know if they learned it."
20:04:59 <jadudm> The POSSE framework is tough, because "assessment" takes place in multiple ways over multiple time-scales.
20:05:11 <mchua> Well... but that's the case for classes and whatnot too, right?
20:05:17 <jadudm> Yeah.
20:05:20 <mchua> It's not a POSSE-unique problem.
20:05:23 <mchua> So how do you solve it there?
20:05:24 <jadudm> And it is why we don't like the end-of-semester eval.
20:05:28 <jadudm> Dunno. Community?
20:05:48 <jadudm> That's one of the differences between POSSE and my (typical) class: there is no continuity/community beyond the end of the 14 weeks.
20:05:57 <jadudm> Huh... that's a serious problem, actually.
20:06:13 <mchua> ...that your classes don't have continuity, or that POSSE/TOS does?
20:06:26 <mchua> I mean, it's... I don't see it as a problem necessarily if that's an assumption/expectation that people have going in.
20:06:58 <mchua> It's nice to have some things stop and other things start. I'm not sure how I'd feel about getting a freshman calculus assignment my senior year, I think I would protest against *that* much continuity. :)
20:07:09 <mchua> ...then again, it's likely that it would be good for me because I have forgotten much of that material by now.
20:07:21 * mchua pulls out of the excessive meta
20:07:31 <jadudm> So.
20:07:35 <jadudm> We each have a to-do
20:07:54 <jadudm> #action look at 3.6 from etherpad (to be moved to wiki) and fill it out
20:08:03 <mchua> #action mchua ask the TOS community their thoughts on POSSE assessment, since it takes place in multiple ways and timescales, and the TOS community can provide continuity past the end of the workshop (as opposed to classes ending with the semester)
20:08:41 <mchua> #action mchua fill out POSSE 5-day curriculum with the "what they learn, how they learn it, how we tell how well they learned it" trio Mihaela mentioned
20:09:05 <jadudm> And, when do we come back together to reflect/critique and move forward again.
20:09:10 <jadudm> We'll tackle the whole document one step at a time.
20:09:17 <mchua> jadudm: Looking ahead, I'd like to be able to do a mini-teaser workshop or gathering of some sort for POSSE at SIGCSE in March, and use that as the big "plz register!!!" push, if that sounds like good timing.
20:09:22 <jadudm> (I missed a '?' somewhere)
20:09:35 <jadudm> OK... so.
20:09:50 <mchua> jadudm: My schedule is pretty clear - Tuesday is my usual "I have a lot of meetings!" day, so anytime Tues that's not 3-4pm EST would be my preference. Flexible, though.
20:10:19 <mchua> (if the SIGCSE milestone seems like a good one to you, I mean. I'm semi-blindly proposing something for a cultural context I don't have familiarity with.)
20:10:24 <jadudm> #info SIGCSE workshop deadline September 10
20:10:32 * mchua curses softly
20:10:40 <jadudm> It can be done.
20:10:43 * mchua quickly looks up what's involved
20:11:03 <jadudm> Max 3 pages.
20:11:06 <mchua> jadudm: Do you want to aim for it?
20:11:07 <mchua> PHEW
20:11:23 <jadudm> Did Greg/Heidi want to take part?
20:11:23 <mchua> Sounded like Heidi, Clif, Mihaela and maybe some others would be interested in helping, at least.
20:11:27 <jadudm> Right.
20:11:43 <jadudm> Is piratepad persistent?
20:11:47 <mchua> Heidi, Greg H, and I were talking about joining HFOSS/POSSE forces, but nothing clear emerged (it was a rushed OSCON conversation).
20:11:50 <jadudm> No, check that: wiki is the way to go.
20:11:59 <mchua> jadudm: It's persistent, but with no guarantees - I usually push to wiki when I'm done with a pad.
20:12:18 <jadudm> #action Matt email TOS re: mini-POSSE workshop at SIGCSE.
20:12:31 <mchua> #info Workshops are 3 hours long
20:12:36 <mchua> That's not bad. That's not bad at all.
20:13:06 <mchua> jadudm: I'm willing to do as much driving as needed for a SIGCSE workshop, but if I'm driving I need a really, really good and patient navigator/shotgun/advice/halp.
20:13:18 <mchua> jadudm: Alternatively, if you want to drive, I would be more than happy to provide as much minionhood as you can handle.
20:13:44 <jadudm> Well, I thought I'd just send the email about interest.
20:13:59 <mchua> Ok, I'll make the same offer on the mailing list then.
20:14:11 <jadudm> OK, go for it. I'll un-action.
20:14:14 <jadudm> er.
20:14:18 <jadudm> #unaction Matt's email.
20:14:22 <jadudm> ;)
20:14:31 <mchua> #action Mel will send that email, actually
20:15:24 <jadudm> Ah.
20:15:42 <jadudm> I think we want a panel
20:15:46 <jadudm> #link http://www.sigcse.org/sigcse2011/authors/panels.php
20:15:50 <jadudm> Or, submit for both.
20:16:18 <jadudm> My concern: a workshop is 3 hours long, and can't handle huge participation. If you want to do a workshop, you should select (or solicit interest and then select) one or two people to help.
20:16:44 <mchua> #note Panel or workshop, or submit for both?
20:16:48 <jadudm> A panel has more space for more people (4-5 participants), and would allow for more discussion of what goes on in FLOSS/HFOSS outreach to classes.
20:16:49 * mchua nods.
20:16:57 <jadudm> That would work better for getting multiple people involved, in some ways.
20:17:41 <mchua> Right - at FIE, Heidi and Greg and Clif and Matt Burke and I have a panel for, I think, that reason exactly.
20:17:52 <jadudm> OK.
20:17:59 <mchua> I'll send a request for help out, start working on both, and ship on the 10th no matter what.
20:18:12 <mchua> #note Both. Ship on the 10th no matter what.
20:18:40 <jadudm> The workshop is... it's like a mini-mini-POSSE, but what do you do in 3 hours?
20:19:06 <jadudm> You have time for 20-30 minutes of hacking, 30-45 minutes of discussion on that experience... perhaps with a reading assignment in advance...
20:19:25 <jadudm> But, hacking is tricky -- they have to have a bulletproof environment in advance.
20:19:29 <jadudm> Ah. Could be wikipedia...
20:19:33 * jadudm is distracted by brainstorming
20:19:35 <mchua> Maybe the workshop isn't so much on FOSS participation directly as it is on curriculum adaptation.
20:19:44 <jadudm> Ah. Interesting.
20:19:53 <mchua> "bring your existing course and we'll show you how it can become EVEN MORE AWESOME with foss community participation"
20:19:54 <jadudm> "Workshopping FLOSS into the CS Curriculum"
20:20:03 <jadudm> FLOSSing your Curriculum
20:20:09 <mchua> "oh wait, that modified curriculum requires a few skills/tools you don't have yet? Come to POSSE!"
20:20:13 * mchua groans
20:20:28 <mchua> I swear that acronym was chosen *just* for the puns.
20:20:29 <jadudm> What? Are you picking at my pun?
20:20:47 <mchua> Yes. Yes, I am.
20:20:56 <jadudm> I'll brush it up a bit, and try and avoid masticating any further dental puns.
20:21:13 <jadudm> OK. So, next meeting is Tuesday.
20:21:23 * mchua clutches head in pun-agony
20:21:30 <mchua> jadudm: Yes, what time? I'm open except 3-4.
20:21:44 <jadudm> OK. Morning, or afternoon?
20:22:08 <jadudm> Afternoon, actually.
20:22:13 <jadudm> I'm good before 3 or after 4.
20:22:16 <mchua> jadudm: Actually, 3pm is supposed to be the POSSE meeting anyway, is that a good time for you? We can just roll it into that, since this is the convo that has to happen anyhow.
20:22:18 <jadudm> How about after 4.
20:22:24 <jadudm> I might be able to.
20:22:33 <mchua> If you're booked 3-4, we can say 4.
20:22:41 <mchua> Or 4:30. Doesn't really matter to me.
20:23:19 <jadudm> I've blocked 3 - 5.
20:23:29 <mchua> I'll do the same.
20:23:30 <jadudm> New action for me.
20:23:42 <jadudm> #action draft panel proposal, sans parts that are specific to the participants.
20:24:02 <jadudm> That lifts starting both off your shoulders.
20:24:09 <jadudm> It's easier for you to start a workshop proposal, anyway.
20:24:18 <jadudm> Oh, wait.
20:24:28 <jadudm> Nope. I'm fine. Don't mind me.
20:24:40 * jadudm goes in two directions at once.
20:25:00 <mchua> Uh... well, I'll... take a stab at both in any case, just to get stuff started.
20:25:27 <mchua> I'm thinking a <30min writing sprint on each, then polish into comprehensibility; I'm running blind here so I won't go too far without asking for feedback on-list.
20:25:43 <mchua> Unless you really want to write one or both. :)
20:25:54 <mchua> I gotta learn how to do this stuff eventually, anyhow.
20:26:07 <jadudm> They will both require a fair bit of care before they're done. And, you're traditionally very bad at delegating.
20:26:16 <mchua> Yeah... true.
20:26:22 <jadudm> Spending more, rather than less, time on the workshop proposal itself will be good at this stage.
20:26:35 <jadudm> That one, in my mind, has the possibility of being a really neat kind of workshop.
20:26:43 <mchua> FLOSSing your curriculum?
20:26:48 <jadudm> Yep.
20:26:52 <jadudm> (Whatever it gets called)
20:26:55 <mchua> Okay, so did you want to do the workshop or the panel, or both, or...
20:27:00 <mchua> ...which one(s), if any, should I do?
20:27:00 <jadudm> I'll start the panel.
20:27:04 <jadudm> You should do the workshop.
20:27:08 <mchua> Okay.
20:27:13 <jadudm> Because the background/etc. to it is really about POSSE, etc.
20:27:16 <mchua> #action jadudm draft panel proposal
20:27:19 <mchua> #action mchua draft workshop proposal
20:27:29 <jadudm> The panel is a simpler document, in some ways, because most of it is a paragraph or two from the participants.
20:27:39 <jadudm> So, I'll write the background, and we can get participants who are interested, and they submit their parts.
20:27:47 <mchua> I'll get something to the TOS list in decent shape before the weekend.
20:27:49 <jadudm> The workshop proposal is a coherent document -- starting it now is good.
20:27:51 <jadudm> Yep.
20:27:59 <mchua> This might mean I send something terrible to the TOS list today, and then whip it into shape over the next 36 hours.
20:28:06 <jadudm> Sure.
20:28:15 <jadudm> 3 pages of ACM is usually around 6 pages of 12-point text.
20:28:20 <jadudm> ish.
20:28:37 <mchua> I'll... yeah, I'll generate text now, worry about formatting later.
20:28:41 <mchua> Good to know, though.
20:28:57 <mchua> jadudm: And is this the sort of thing one wants to not do on a wiki, or is that okay?
20:29:26 <jadudm> I was just checking that.
20:29:31 <jadudm> Neither workshops nor panels are blind.
20:29:36 <jadudm> So, doing this in a wiki is just fine.
20:29:55 <mchua> Awesome.
20:30:02 <mchua> #info Neither workshops nor panels are blind, so doing this in a wiki is fine.
20:30:16 <jadudm> I'll create a wiki page for the panel now...
20:30:22 * mchua is starting to learn to ask these questions before charging out into the open.
20:31:11 <jadudm> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/User:Jadudm/SIGCSE2011-FLOSS-Panel
20:31:15 * mchua does the same for the workshop, and watches to link both to a SIGCSE 2011 events page (which may need to be created)
20:33:00 <mchua> It does, but I just made both pages.
20:33:06 <mchua> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/SIGCSE_2011
20:33:15 <jadudm> mchua: so, we're temporarily shelving any POSSE-related work through Tuesday (at least, I am), and instead focusing on SIGCSE thigns.
20:33:28 <mchua> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/SIGCSE_2011/Workshop_proposal
20:33:29 <jadudm> mchua: Ah, you're an underscore person...
20:33:33 <jadudm> Oooh.
20:33:40 <mchua> jadudm: ooh?
20:33:49 <jadudm> I'll blow away my page, and put the panel there, too.
20:34:04 <mchua> jadudm: Nah, I'm a spaces kind of person and it gets automatically translated to underscores in this configuration of mediawiki.
20:34:09 <mchua> Usually I'd do dashes.
20:34:30 <jadudm> mchua: SPACES!
20:34:35 * mchua groans. we didn't enable subpages for this wiki, I'll make sure that happens.
20:34:42 <mchua> #action mchua talk with ctyler about enabling subpages for the TOS wiki
20:34:51 <mchua> ianweller: ^^ infrastructure work needed, o czar
20:35:11 <mchua> but when that happens, the slashes will get nice subpages that direct to the right space and etc.
20:35:16 <jadudm> Yep.
20:35:28 <jadudm> OK.
20:35:35 <jadudm> Done for the moment?
20:36:09 <mchua> jadudm: Yes. I'm still going to work on the curriculum between now and Tuesday but SIGCSE is higher-priority.
20:36:22 <mchua> Thanks, Matt - I'll send minutes and summarize this to the rest of the TOS community.
20:36:37 <jadudm> Yep. You have more bandwidth at the moment; between now and Tuesday, I'm only able to focus on one of the two.
20:36:44 <jadudm> OK.
20:37:05 <ianweller> mchua: wat
20:37:09 * ianweller reads
20:37:11 * mchua nods. I've got plenty of bandwidth until next Thursday when conferences hit, and starting in October I have brutal travel for 2 months, but I'll frontload what I can.
20:37:24 <mchua> ianweller: TOS wiki. Subpages. I'd like 'em turned on. Can you make it happen?
20:37:30 <mchua> (including poking ctyler for the necessary privs)
20:37:35 <ianweller> ctyler: poke
20:37:42 <mchua> jadudm: all set, methinks. #endmeeting if you concur?
20:37:49 <ianweller> mchua: yeah i know the magic that goes in LocalSettings.php
20:38:07 <ctyler> ianweller: yow!
20:38:35 <mchua> ianweller: so do I, but I'm lazy and you're doing infra anyhow :)
20:38:36 <ianweller> ctyler: mchua wants someone to enable subpages on the TOS wiki. i know how, i just don't have access to the server.
20:38:53 <mchua> ctyler: Also, if I could get a posse-southafrica mailing list, that would r0x0r.
20:39:00 <ianweller> alternatively i could point documentation to someone to do it
20:39:03 <mchua> (that, and the admin list for the rest of the posse-* lists, because the spam is piling...)
20:39:18 <mchua> jadudm: I'll take that as a yes and wrap so ian and chris can talk infra :)
20:39:21 <ctyler> ianweller: tell me what you want in LocalSettings.ini and I'll stuff it in there
20:39:21 <mchua> #endmeeting