teachingopensource
MINUTES
02:47:30 <mchua> #startmeeting
02:47:30 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jun 17 02:47:30 2010 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
02:47:30 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
03:20:12 <mchua> quaid: the story with bao is at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teachingopensource/2010-06-15/posse_rit_tuesday.2010-06-15-12.20.html if you want to see the raw logs before I have time to write a fuller report up
03:20:22 <mchua> gregdek: if you're keeping up with planet TOS, you'll like some of the recent posts
03:22:23 <mchua> gregdek: crowning glory moment for me Tuesday was - over lunch - helping one of jelkner's students write a "plz can haz help?" post to sugar-devel (he was trying to add a feature to an Activity that I maintain, and I lacked the code-fu to help him directly) and having multiple community members give him pointers to the answer before I got back from the pizza line.
03:22:50 <gregdek> Rock.  On.  :)
03:22:52 <mchua> gregdek: the profs were stunned. also, crowning glory moment today: wasn't hungry, but finished garbage plate anyway (Mike's - same place we went to in October).
03:23:08 <gregdek> GARBAGEPLATE
03:23:09 <gregdek> noms
03:23:22 <mchua> gregdek: I need a Manstyle jacket, but "Womanstyle" just doesn't... really... have the same ring to it.
03:23:56 <gregdek> If you could find a womanstyle jacket in real life, I think you'd find that it *did* have the same ring to it, somehow.
03:25:09 * mchua googs for "womanstyle"
03:25:37 <mchua> gregdek: uhhhhhh.... http://www.amazon.com/Womanstyle-Leah-Feldon/dp/0517538717
03:25:41 <mchua> gregdek: .....no
03:26:25 <mchua> gregdek: or http://www.etsy.com/listing/41872868/384-woman-style-pattern-easy-to-sew - equally... no
03:27:35 <gregdek> LOL
03:27:36 <gregdek> http://sourceforge.net/projects/manstyle/
03:29:00 <mchua> no way.
03:30:15 <mchua> gregdek: cali going well? when do we start seeing Greg's Good Ol' Calls To Action?
03:30:35 <gregdek> mchua, gonna be a little while yet.
03:30:41 <gregdek> Lots to sort through.
03:30:49 <gregdek> And the first calls to action may be to teachers.
03:30:54 <gregdek> Right now, I need some sleep.  :)
03:32:26 <mchua> It's... 8:30pm!
03:32:33 <paulproteus> mchua: Lucky!
03:32:46 <mchua> paulproteus: for gregdek - it's 11:30 for me. He's in cali.
03:32:52 <paulproteus> gregdek: lucky.
03:33:02 <mchua> paulproteus: oh, we're plugging openhatch again, btw.
03:33:11 <mchua> paulproteus: we should also write our talk at some point.
03:33:17 <mchua> (not this week not this week not this week zomg)
03:33:33 <paulproteus> Choosy people choose zsh.
03:33:36 <paulproteus> Choosy people choose zomg.
03:35:15 <mchua> +1 zsh
03:35:20 <mchua> and ack
03:35:21 <mchua> <3
11:41:46 * ctyler finishes package review, looks at clock, panics slightly
11:50:11 * mchua finishes Planet reading, looks at clock, yelps and jams stuff into backpack
11:52:34 <ctyler> mchua: will be there in couple minutes
11:52:57 <mchua> ctyler: no worries, I'll be typing from the lobby
12:36:47 <JonathanD> Morning.
12:37:20 <gary_at_RIT> morning all
12:37:55 <mchua> #topic Planet review
12:38:08 <mprppr> there's the RIT POSSE folks. . .
12:38:11 <mchua> #info We'll be going through our 3 planets (SL, TOS, Fedora) briefly with an ongoing narration.
12:38:19 <mchua> #link http://planet.sugarlabs.org
12:38:28 <mchua> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/Planet
12:38:31 <mchua> #link http://planet.fedoraproject.org
12:38:43 <mprppr> I'll be late -- I have an issue with my car that I need to resolve before i can drive in
12:38:52 <mprppr> I'll be there as soon as i can
12:39:03 <mchua> mprppr: no worries, I'll ask people to transcribe notes in this channel too
12:39:12 <mchua> ctyler: ^
12:39:25 * ganderson VIOLENTLY TRANSCRIBES
12:39:52 <ctyler> #topic Planet Review
12:40:25 <ctyler> #info Planet Sugar - http://planet.sugarlabs.org/
12:43:41 <ctyler> Discussion of getting students involved in open source in HS into post-secondary education where they can continue working with FLOSS
12:44:23 <ctyler> Steve notes that TOS documentation on this (examples, needs, approaches) would be useful
12:44:34 <JonathanD> howdy gary_at_RIT.
12:51:12 <ctyler> #info Fedora Planet
12:51:21 <ctyler> #link http://planet.fedoraproject.org/
12:54:03 <ganderson> #info talking about Groklaw and how it's changed from documenting the SCO trial to now being more of a "newsletter" for open source topics
12:56:33 <willhoft> I missed the url for the planet that we are looking at, could someone post
12:56:43 <ganderson> http://planet.fedoraproject.org/
12:56:47 <ganderson> willhoft  ^
12:57:16 <pfroehlich> morning
12:57:29 <pfroehlich> faculty meeting all day today :-D so I'll be on here most of the time :-D
12:59:24 <Dave_S> What is QA?
12:59:35 <pfroehlich> Dave_S: quality assurance?
12:59:43 <Dave_S> : )) TY
13:05:33 <mchua> #topic Project updates
13:07:04 <mchua> #info Remix group has a package list, will be actually building image today
13:07:51 <mchua> #info Measure group has found bugs, made patches - walterbender beat them to a fix - found a bug in Walter's code, will be pushing their patches upstream today and getting help from upstream on some questions they have. Also learned interactive git rebasing!
13:09:52 <mchua> ianweller, ctyler: coordinate call focus/time this afternoon?
13:10:04 <ianweller> yo.
13:15:18 <mchua> JonathanD: questions about FOSScon dinner coming your way - RITSteve, I think... ganderson may also be able to fill in?
13:17:48 <JonathanD> I'm here.
13:22:43 <mchua> #info The remix folks are currently searching for documentation on how to make a remix
13:23:11 <lmacken> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Measure
13:23:27 <Dave_S> screencast on how to make a fedora remix  http://www.montanalinux.org/fedora-remix-howto-screencast.html
13:24:38 <mchua> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Remix
13:24:46 <mchua> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Fedora_Live_CD
13:24:48 <Andrea_H> maybe of interest? http://remixtheory.net/?cat=36
13:24:51 <mchua> heh, it tells you to use revisor.
13:25:16 <sdziallas> mchua: typewithme is apparently down.
13:25:46 <mchua> Andrea_H: ooo, so that's an interesting thing you found - that's about something different than fedora remixes, but it does talk about the remixability of free content (which we touched on looking at Planet posts today)
13:25:54 <mchua> sdziallas: Shoot. Uh... I should have upstreamed
13:25:57 <mchua> but I remember some of it
13:26:00 <Dave_S> that video I poseted was for for Fedora 10 not 13 BTW
13:26:17 <sdziallas> mchua: do you still have the tab open? if so, just throw it into a piratepad.
13:27:13 <mchua> sdziallas: I do! I still can't connect to piratepad though.
13:27:29 <RITSteve> http://forums.fedoraforum.org/archive/index.php/f-73.html
13:27:46 <sdziallas> mchua: do an fpaste for me. or go to openetherpad.org
13:28:03 <Andrea_H> just some suggestions on programs http://fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?p=1360111
13:28:09 <ctyler> pbrobinson: I reviewed your sugar-abacus package this AM -- looks really good except for a few small/fixable things.
13:28:25 <mchua> sdziallas: http://openetherpad.org/remix-doc
13:28:30 <engineer> I found this article on making a remix: http://www.linuxforu.com/how-to/roll-out-a-fedora-remix/
13:28:41 <sdziallas> mchua: awesome.
13:30:39 <mchua> So, the link engineer found looks pretty recent - it talks about fedora 12
13:31:05 <root_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Fedora_Live_CD
13:32:43 <mchua> So we've decided we're going to chug through those instructions and see how far we can get before we get stuck.
13:32:51 <afmondra_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Fedora_Live_CD
13:33:51 <mchua> one half of the room (me, Andrea_H, engineer) will work through http://www.linuxforu.com/how-to/roll-out-a-fedora-remix/
13:34:11 <mchua> and the other half - RITSteve, Dave_S, and afmondra_ - will do https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Fedora_Live_CD
13:34:16 <mchua> and we'll see where we get stuck
13:34:22 <mchua> maybe in different places!
13:37:30 <mchua> engineer and Andrea_H - /join #fedora-devel
13:39:12 <mchua> Dave_S, afmondra_: you might want to do ^^ also, in case you run into questions
13:46:05 <mchua> Dave_S, afmondra_: how are you guys doing? We found mether, the author of the walkthrough we're using, in #fedora-devel
13:56:11 <Dave_S> We are puzzling through it, but making progress.  We've got the LIve-CD creator installed, working on understanding how it works.
13:57:22 <mchua> Dave_S: we got some help from mether in #fedora-devel so things are going pretty fast here :)
13:57:30 <mchua> Dave_S: you could always ask in #fedora-devel, too. *nudgenudge*
14:04:09 <Dave_S> Antonio's understanding is lightyears ahead of mine, I'm sort of tagging along
14:10:43 <mchua> Dave_S: sdziallas and I started rewriting the instructions last night (mostly me asking stupid questions and him answering them) and the draft is https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:How_to_create_and_use_a_Live_CD if this helps any
14:10:48 <mchua> Dave_S: it is *really* not done
14:10:55 <mchua> but it may be more... uh... coherently structured?
14:11:00 <mchua> perhaps?
14:12:28 * mchua is continuing to revise the docs at http://openetherpad.org/remix-doc
14:18:10 <Dave_S> So what we are doing is that Antonio has a methodology and he is explaining it to me and I am going to think about instructions when I have a sense that I understand what i'm doing.  I'm getting there.
14:19:14 <mchua> Dave_S: that works. :) I think we're almost through on this side - just trying to figure out the custom branding stuff
14:19:17 <mchua> asking on #fedora-devel
14:22:01 <mchua> RITSteve: I can't find the computer access form. Still digging.
14:22:49 <RITSteve> mchua: will see if she copied me on it and I didin't delete it :-)
14:23:57 <mchua> RITSteve: I'm systematically going through every attachment she ever sent me because it's *probably* cat'd to the end of a file with a different name
14:24:09 <RITSteve> yah
14:30:57 <mchua> RITSteve: I don't have it, and I can't find it online. If you're coming up empty-handed, I'll email Michelle and ask for a resend, we can get 4 external signatures (luke, me, chris, robert) easy enough.
14:31:52 <KarlieRobinson> RITSteve: OpenOffice.org just announced more bounties
14:32:16 <KarlieRobinson> If you know any students with foss@RIT who might need a few bucks, the url is http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Bounties
14:32:34 <KarlieRobinson> and I sent the announcement email to the main TOS mailing list.
14:32:50 <mchua> fardad: ^^ I recall your adventures in Oo-land with your students... is it still a tough place to dive into?
14:33:52 <KarlieRobinson> Even if it's hard, the bounties range from 100 to 600 Euros
14:33:55 <RITSteve> KarlieRobinson: thanks.  I'll pass it on to Remy to get him to spread the word
14:37:20 <mchua> Dave_S, afmondra - we finally broke stuff :) we're hollering in #fedora-devel as to where we're stuck (livecd-creator), how are you guys doing?
14:38:11 <mchua> for those remote: There is humming in the room going on from the Measure team. It is amusing.
14:38:21 * mchua loves testing that Activity.
14:44:52 <lmacken> 3 measure patches pushed upstream already :)
14:51:58 <mchua> lmacken: r0x0r
14:57:38 <mchua> Dave_S, afmondra_: #fedora-mktg made the bookmarks for the last Fedora release, btw - someone there may be able to help walk you through it.
14:57:50 <mchua> (specifically, I think spevack did, but I also am pretty sure he's out for meetings atm)
15:04:22 <Dave_S> Okay, trying to build the remix.  Having trouble with LaTex, specifically I got the message that "Couldn't find package" did a search of latex and got a LOT of "stuff"   I'm not sure what part or all to include.
15:05:23 <mchua> Dave_S: ask in #fedora-devel - gwerra is around to answer questions about remixes, he said
15:06:21 <cras> hello mchua
15:09:47 <mchua> Hey, cras. sup?
15:15:50 <cras> you were asking me about the material that ctyler was referring to earlier. The URL is here - http://www.labmanual.org
15:21:18 <mchua> cras: ah, thanks!
15:28:15 * quaid takes a look
15:30:12 <quaid> cool ...
15:30:26 <quaid> that is actually a potentially wicked nice complementary condition
15:30:47 <quaid> we could have e.g. labmanual.org as the upstream for all exercises in the 'Practical Open Source Software Exploration' textbook
15:31:04 <quaid> and building a textbook would include choosing which labs to include, etc
15:31:24 * quaid is presuming he'll find a compatible CC license
15:31:49 <mchua> quaid: content may be a bit old though - http://www.labmanual.org/tiki-index.php?page=llm1-lab1&structure=Linux Lab Manual 1 refers to "fedora core linux" and the instructions involve using a floppy :)
15:33:32 <quaid> oh sure
15:33:52 <quaid> and some of that, e.g. installation, we might want to look at if Fedora formal content could be used
15:34:09 <quaid> there is a Quick Start Installation Guide, for example
15:34:39 * mchua nods
15:37:07 <ctyler> anyone know the local jabber/sugar server info?
15:38:06 <ctyler> Please please please?
15:38:18 <ctyler> we're using a remote one and it's lagging by minutess, killing us
15:46:15 <skuhaneck> ctyler: schoolserver.rit.edu
16:04:18 <mchua> #info Update from the Remix folks - we've mostly got through the instructions (they have also been improved) and have asked mether and gwerra questions in #fedora-devel, gotten help from jgreguske as well
16:04:34 <mchua> #info Remix problem: not enough disk space :) so we can try building the minimal .ks just to get an .iso out after lunch
16:06:31 <mchua> #info We'll also try to put in the rebranding and the bookmarks on that minimal .ks now that we know we can pull in the package list we want.
16:08:38 <ctyler> skuhaneck: thanks
16:09:11 <ctyler> mchua: I can provide a Seneca account if you want to try building there (?)
16:12:31 <mchua> ctyler: that would be awesome, I'd love to use that. RIT folks trying to find their own solution.
17:31:41 <ganderson> wb GenJamGuy
17:32:03 <GenJamGuy> back at you
18:00:16 <Dave_S> mel: can you help me connect the dots in terms of how the remix exercise might be beneficial to do in an open source course, such as we have here at RIT?
18:00:50 <Dave_S> mchua:  I understand the process, but not precisely the educational goals/use.
18:01:46 <mchua> Dave_S: I don't think the *creation* of a remix will be really all that useful for students to do, tbh... a remix itself may be useful as a tool to have for a class, so they have all their software preinstalled somewhere
18:14:52 <satellit_> mucha: I use a 250 GB USB HD with f13 for builds. Works well. Nice to install extra applications like liveusb-creator so can make live-usb's with out doing downloads every time. my 2 cents
18:15:21 <satellit_> mchua...did it agein....: /
18:26:17 * mchua looks up
18:26:26 <mchua> satellit_: thanks, Tom.
18:32:00 <satellit_> mchua: Why does anaconda not install these extra programs on the spin? You may have already covered this . Is there an install manifest on remix.iso that needs editing?
18:32:20 * satellit_ besides the .ks
18:32:28 <mchua> satellit_: I don't know, and this is probably not the best channel to ask in, tbh
18:32:41 <satellit_> ok. thanks
18:32:49 <mchua> satellit_: we've been asking remix questions in #fedora-devel - you may want to clarify what "extra programs" means, though, and what you're trying to do.
18:33:00 <mchua> #topic Student project case studies
18:33:08 <satellit_> will ask there....sorry
18:33:13 <mchua> #info Chris is now going to shift us into thinking about our own classes for the year.
18:33:20 <mchua> #info He's going to be going through examples of projects students have done.
18:35:05 <mchua> Chris is showing a paper he wrote about sustainable community student involvement in foss.
18:35:35 <mchua> #info Chris is showing a paper he wrote about sustainable community student involvement in foss.
18:35:39 <mchua> #link http://chris.tylers.info/ols2008/
18:37:14 <mchua> #info Sometimes, communities have had bad experiences with students in the past - they barge in, start something, then drop it on the ground and leave - unreliably - so it's important that your students do it right, and leave a good impression, and show that they know how to do things right the open source way.
18:41:17 <mchua> #info They found they needed to select 3 things to do this successfully: (1) a faculty member, (2) a FOSS community
18:42:14 <mchua> Hullo, Sparks_too. You *just* missed Andrea and Dave, but I'll shoot you their emails.
18:42:26 <mchua> Sparks_too: I'll ping tomorrow when they're back.
18:42:58 <Sparks_too> mchua: No problem.  I'm flexible...
18:43:39 <mether> satellit_,   let me try here.  what is it that you are trying to do?
18:44:34 <mchua> #info (3) Student projects - they need to be non-critical-path, yet things that people care about. "what are the things you would love to see done, but just don't have time to do?"
18:49:04 <mchua> #info Don't have to finish - need to get to a good "next starting point."
18:49:19 <mchua> Andrea_H: Hey, are you around? Sparks_too is here, and I wanted you folks to meet.
18:49:38 <Andrea_H> mchua; yes, i'm here. had to reboot for some reason
18:49:50 <Andrea_H> Sparks_too: hello
18:49:56 <Sparks_too> Andrea_H: Greetings!
18:50:19 <mchua> Andrea_H, Sparks_too: you both should have an intro email that gives a tiny bit of context
18:50:35 <mchua> but the short is that Sparks_too == Eric, head of the Fedora Docs team, looking for folks to help with writing
18:50:44 <mchua> Andrea_H: == prof at RIT looking for opportunities for students
18:50:52 <Sparks_too> :)
18:50:56 <mchua> And so I figured, hey, maybe not a bad match.
18:51:05 * Sparks_too appologizes as he got called upon in another meeting
18:51:29 <Sparks_too> Andrea_H: I'm always looking for more eyes and more thoughts when developing documentation
18:51:38 <Sparks_too> Andrea_H: Were you looking for something specific?
18:51:52 <Andrea_H> Sparks_too: mchua summed it up pretty good. our journalism program is new and we are looking to establish ourselves with a strong IT angle
18:52:15 <mchua> #info Danger: if students go off on their own and think they know everything and come in at the end with a finished product, it may not be what the community wants/needs, so they may just reject it (even if it's perfectly good work, it's not what they needed) - so *do* involve them in community dialogue early on
18:52:16 <Sparks_too> Andrea_H: So more journalism and less technical writing, correct?
18:52:21 <Andrea_H> Sparks_too: not really. i'm still learning everything. I've been getting some good ideas
18:52:32 <Andrea_H> Sparks_too: yes. more journalism stuff.
18:52:46 <mchua> Sparks_too: Dave_S may be more useful on the Docs side, he actually teaches tech writing specifically
18:52:50 <Sparks_too> Andrea_H: Okay, I think we can work that fairly well.
18:53:34 <Sparks_too> Andrea_H: I actually have a task sitting on my shoulders now that needs a journalism touch that I'm sure I don't have.
18:53:54 <Andrea_H> Sparks_too:cool. what's cookin'
18:54:28 <Sparks_too> Andrea_H: So...  I'd like to put a spotlight on my awesome tech writers
18:54:49 <Sparks_too> They have really been churning out the guides
18:55:00 <Sparks_too> AND we have a shiny new website (docs.fedoraproject.org)
18:56:14 <Sparks_too> Andrea_H: Documentation is generally an unrecognized feature in the FOSS community.
18:56:21 <Sparks_too> ...until something breaks.
18:57:16 <lmacken> walterbender just applied our measure patches upstream :)
18:57:37 <Andrea_H> Sparks_too: ha. I could see that. The website looks nice. I'm going to share all this with one of the folks who teaches technical writing at RIT.
18:57:55 <mchua> lmacken: we saw, and celebrated, while you were out :D
18:58:04 <lmacken> mchua: weeeeeeee
18:58:13 <Sparks_too> Andrea_H: Excellent.  You can see that we have a lot of opportunities for technical writers as well.
18:59:10 <mchua> And people who can coach non-writers to become better writers... sometimes devs write stuff that's got good content but is not worded particularly well
18:59:20 <mchua> and would make a great feature, say, if only it were readable by mere mortals.
18:59:41 <mchua> so editors to spot that stuff coming across the Planet, and go "ooo!" and poke the author and help clean it up... would be most welcome.
18:59:45 <Andrea_H> mchua: good point. we teach news editing and they might really enjoy this
19:00:10 <mchua> Andrea_H: It's remarkable how *little* feedback we get on the actual quality of our writing, as engineers, even if comunication is absolutely vital to the work we do
19:00:19 <mchua> Andrea_H: and so of course we continue to be terrible at it ;)
19:00:27 <mchua> (...or I do, anyway)
19:00:56 <mchua> #info Critique from a professional programmer on your code is invaluable - FOSS can help your students get it.
19:01:55 <Jefro> Just chiming in - don't forget FLOSS Manuals, an open-source effort to generate better documentation for open-source projects.  http://flossmanuals.net
19:02:11 <Sparks_too> Andrea_H: Feel free to email me or pass my email address along...  sparks@fedoraproject.org
19:02:42 <Andrea_H> Sparks_too: sounds great.  please keep in touch. my e-mail is aahgpt@rit.edu
19:03:10 <Sparks_too> Will do
19:04:52 <Jefro> It occurred to me this year as a mentor for Google Summer of Code that perhaps someone should sponsor a Summer of Documentation, or at least set up a mentoring effort along those lines.  I would love to see more non-coders involved in open source.
19:05:17 <Jefro> Glad to see a discussion about this.  (I am also a technical writer)
19:05:24 <mchua> Jefro: Actually, I ran Summer of Content a few years back.
19:05:31 <Jefro> really!  I missed it
19:05:54 <mchua> I wonder if it's something that should be picked up again. It... wasn't large nor well done - it was improvised haphazardly, or at least that's what it felt like from this end.
19:06:02 <mchua> Andrea_H: oh! you should meet Jefro too!
19:06:12 <mchua> Sparks_too: ^
19:06:32 <Sparks_too> Jefro: Greetings!
19:06:49 <Jefro> howdy!
19:06:54 <Andrea_H> Jefro: hiya
19:07:03 <mchua> Mmm, tech writing.
19:07:12 <mchua> Jefro: http://andreahickerson.blogspot.com/2010/06/posse-day2-and-3.html?showComment=1276743532276#c9145381446246023163
19:07:15 <mchua> for a bit of context
19:07:54 <Jefro> excellent, thanks
19:07:59 <Jefro> sorry I'm coming in late to this conversation
19:08:33 <Andrea_H> jefro: i vote for doing something on documentation - or "Communication" in general
19:08:58 <Jefro> I would like to agree that tech journalism is a viable career path... but I know very few people who have been successful at it.
19:09:11 <Jefro> where successful means not having a separate day job
19:09:17 <Andrea_H> there could be tons of work done on how people collaborate, best practices, etc.
19:09:29 <Jefro> very glad to see that the POSSE Is going well
19:09:35 <Sparks_too> Jefro: There are a TON of Linux magazines out there...  someone's writing them!  :)
19:09:52 <Andrea_H> jefro: yes, but i still think journalism is a good field. people need information. business kinks need to be worked out for sure!
19:10:12 <Jefro> nearly all are written by freelance technical people rather than journalists
19:10:12 <mchua> Andrea_H: oh - one log you may find interesting is a Classroom run by Zonker, who's a well-known FOSS journalist.
19:10:16 <mchua> Andrea_H: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-classroom/2010-04-27/fedora-classroom.2010-04-27-19.00.log.html
19:10:34 <mchua> Sparks_too, Jefro, Andrea_H - have you folks seen http://www.writingopensource.com/planet ?
19:10:36 <Jefro> heh... zonker is one of the few freelancers I know who actually makes a living as a tech journalist
19:10:37 <Andrea_H> I'm tempted to do some long form writing on this. i got the idea this morning to write about all the young pre-college teens active in open source
19:10:43 <Jefro> havne't see that, thanks mchua
19:11:25 <Jefro> Andrea_H we have one or two of those here - sdziallas is starting college in the fall
19:12:02 * sdziallas waves, looks around :)
19:12:11 <Jefro> Sparks_too I seriously looked into writing magazine articles and white papers full-time at one point (have been a tech writer for 18 yrs) but I couldn't make it work financially.
19:12:41 <mchua> Jefro: and ianweller, and rrix - ricky used to be one, and then he actually went *to* college :D
19:12:41 <Sparks_too> Jefro: Yeah, I haven't actually looked into what it would take.
19:12:54 <Sparks_too> Jefro: I think journalism, in general, is hurting these days.
19:13:14 <Jefro> very much so.  everyone wants content for free, and magazines are hurting as much as newspapers.
19:13:38 <Andrea_H> you guys are too negative. there will always be demand:)
19:14:09 <mchua> Andrea_H: You should introduce the others (physically) in the room that Jefro and Sparks_too may want to talk to later ;)
19:14:11 <Jefro> :)  not trying to be negative, just realistic
19:14:19 * Sparks_too subscribes to the Planet
19:14:21 * mchua will also try to get Dave_S in here tomorrow morning, he's out for the day
19:14:28 <mchua> (and a lot of people are distracted by the world cup game atm)
19:14:43 <Sparks_too> Andrea_H: There's demand... just not demand holding dollar bills.  :)
19:14:50 <Jefro> I would absolutely love to mentor new journalists and freelance writers.
19:14:58 * Sparks_too notes his wife was a journalist before going back to school
19:15:09 <Jefro> And technical writers, for that matter, although many universities now offer tech writing tracks.
19:16:57 <Jefro> the same is actually also true for authors writing technical books.  It's hard to justify 6-8 months writing a tech book to make $10,000, unless one lives in a much less expensive area than I do.
19:17:09 <Jefro> (and that $10k is spread out over 18-24 months)
19:17:30 <Jefro> not saying that people don't do it and thrive, that's just not the way it normally goes.
19:18:27 <Sparks_too> True
19:18:46 <Jefro> One field where a lot of writers are migrating is community management, which combines writing skills and people skills, both of which are severely needed in most tech circles
19:19:05 <Jefro> Anne Gentle wrote a good book on this subject called Conversation & Community (looks for link)
19:20:46 <Jefro> I wonder if there are any studies about tech journalism and how it compares to, say, political journalism as a field - % of freelancers vs. those with health insurance, etc.
19:23:05 <Jefro> Andrea_H one place where I think journalism will thrive in the future is farther up the chain from content generation, as aggregators and distributors of relevant content.  There is a whole lot of noise out there, and filtering for relevance is currently mostly done by the reader.
19:23:23 <mchua> Jefro: amen!
19:23:24 <mchua> http://www.amazon.com/Conversation-Community-Social-Web-Documentation/dp/0982219113
19:23:32 <Jefro> there it is, thanks
19:23:33 * mchua wishes that book were CC-licensed, though... can't find it online
19:23:53 <mchua> I have heard great things about Anne's work, though - she is very active in FLOSSmanual
19:23:57 <mchua> er,  FLOSSManuals
19:23:58 <mchua> FM for short.
19:24:01 <Sparks_too> Andrea_H: I'm getting ready to head home for the day but it was good to meet you.
19:24:05 <Jefro> yes, Anne is a champ
19:24:22 <Jefro> have a good eve Sparks_too - I'm jefro@jefro.net if you want to keep in touch
19:24:39 <Sparks_too> Jefro: Absolutely!
19:24:41 <mchua> Jefro: Andrea_H: Sparks_too hangs in #fedora-docs, he's easy to find :)
19:24:55 <Jefro> mchua thanks!
19:25:20 <mchua> Jefro: I still need to write you a LinuxCon song parody. ;)
19:25:49 <Jefro> that's right, I keep forgetting.  we can work a few things out at oscon as well
19:26:11 <Andrea_H> oops.  sorry i got into a real conversation:) got to head out too:) nice to meet you all. please stay in touch
19:27:15 <Jefro> what is this "real conversation" to which she refers?  like in person?  I'll have to try that someday
19:27:29 * Jefro hears popcorn downstairs, runs off to check
19:39:03 * quaid wakes up here
19:39:22 <quaid> oh, good, Jefro is a voice of reason :)
19:41:39 * quaid reading his buffer ..
19:42:06 <quaid> Jefro: Fedora's summer coding program already has a content project - Fedora Musicians Guide -- we are going to focus and brand the program to go beyond "juts code"
19:43:07 <mchua> Musicians guide is AWESOME, btw. I need to steal it for my setup once I get my gear in Raleigh.
19:44:32 <quaid> exactly :)
19:44:42 * quaid was so happy with that one for several reasons
19:44:45 * Jefro returns with popcorn, googles Fedora Musicians
19:44:55 <quaid> one thing to note ...
19:45:01 <quaid> we did work with students a few years ago in Docs
19:45:11 <quaid> it was mixed
19:45:13 <Jefro> yes, Mel mentioned that
19:45:20 <quaid> mainly for the reasons that we now teach POSSE
19:45:41 <quaid> the instructor wasn't engaged or experienced in this domain, so it was up to the students and the mentor, and the mentor had to do a LOT of work to get the students out here in the wide open
19:45:50 <quaid> ke4qqq++ for that effort!
19:46:02 <quaid> so that's good, we have experience to learn and teach from.
19:46:35 * ke4qqq looks up
19:46:40 <quaid> sorry :)
19:46:48 <Jefro> I'm a bit worried that I entered this past conversation as a purveyor of gloom
19:47:03 <quaid> ke4qqq: conversation earlier with RIT folks about future student writers, but now with Lessons Learned added
19:47:06 <quaid> heh
19:47:16 <quaid> I just reread
19:47:19 <quaid> you all did two things:
19:47:24 <quaid> 1. New idea to work with Fedora, yay!
19:47:33 <quaid> 2. Future of writing is {scary, optimistic}
19:47:34 <ke4qqq> ahhhh honestly quaid is too nice, it was largely fail IMO. but was a great learning experience for me(us?)
19:47:43 <quaid> so, you all split on 2, which is fine, but 1 was a clear +1
19:48:15 <quaid> ke4qqq: well ... your experience I consider to be a seminal example of why we do POSSE, which came -after- so was informed by that experience, iirc
19:51:41 <mchua> ke4qqq: if you think of it this way - I would have hit *all* those things with the Allegheny students if you hadn't already done so and warned us about them (and helped that group get through)
19:52:13 <mchua> so there's no way we could have done as good a good job there without that early experience - and we still made a lot of mistakes, but we'll do better next time with Dave and Andrea's batches, etc.
19:52:15 <ke4qqq> mchua: ha - sadly we still hit some of the same problems
19:52:22 <mchua> ke4qqq: with open eyes this time, though!
19:52:29 <mchua> also, it was a more ambitious scale, etc.
19:52:42 <mchua> I mean, I think the Allegheny experiment returned a fair degree of success.
19:52:46 <mchua> It wasn't perfect, but we got some great things from it.
19:52:54 <ke4qqq> comparatively, I'd agree
19:53:00 <mchua> And a ton of knowledge. We can do *much* better.
19:53:02 <ke4qqq> good bit of success depending on the project they attacked
19:53:11 * mchua nods - I didn't scaffold the spins sites folks well, for instance
19:53:18 <mchua> but Hannah Kowen's btrfs interview - mmmm.
19:54:52 * mchua hoping to do more of a reflection with darren and jadudm at some point
19:55:31 <mchua> we have some notes that we were going to post when we were done (academic stuff not being easy to open up b/c of student confidentiality, etc) but they're half-finished and need to be pushed in the "plz open up this content" direction
19:55:38 * mchua gently prodding
19:57:35 * mchua brb
20:00:22 <paulproteus> Dear #teachingopensource, you might like to know about the OpenHatch summer of code project: https://openhatch.org/blog/2010/google-summer-of-code-project-training-missions/
20:17:09 <gary_at_RIT> ctyler: what was the name of that company that made that ARM tablet you mentioned?
20:17:36 <quaid> paulproteus: I just read that post, sounds great!
20:18:07 <quaid> paulproteus: have you seen the "Four Seasons of Code" project that is in the Fedora Summer Coding?
20:18:20 <quaid> it's to provide a framework for running summer coding-like programs
20:18:40 <quaid> (but doesn't require Google App Enginer as Melange does, plus there are a few other plans AIUI to make it not entirely a NIH situation)
20:19:00 <quaid> anyway, that's a place where I want to see a connection with OpenHatch made (API connection, mainly :)
20:20:26 <paulproteus> quaid: Nope!
20:20:36 <paulproteus> Interesting!
20:20:54 <paulproteus> "What's wrong with requiring Google App Engine"?
20:21:11 <paulproteus> But yeah, that sounds great. What's the Seasons of Code status?
20:23:32 <quaid> what's wrong?
20:23:41 <quaid> well, projects such as Fedora require being able to be buildable from source
20:23:56 <quaid> you can take ALL of what Fedora uses to make e.g. the Linux distro and stand up your own version.
20:24:08 <quaid> can one do that with App Engine?
20:24:21 <quaid> because we'd probably have to do that to run it here :)
20:24:38 <quaid> well, the FSoC idea just got started with one student working on it
20:24:47 <quaid> I'm going to give the a few weeks then see :)
20:25:38 <paulproteus> iirc there's a Free clone of App Engine.
20:25:48 <mchua> ok, at the hotel 'till dinner. mm, guitar and possibly a nap (and lots of water, so dehydrated)
20:25:52 * mchua reads up
20:27:15 <paulproteus> gregdek: You too might like our recent blog post, openhatch.org/blog/ (-:
20:27:54 <gregdek> paulproteus, great stuff!
20:28:18 <paulproteus> All, if you want to retweet it or otherwise let other people know what we're up to, please do (-:
20:28:54 <mether> paulproteus, if there is a free clone, point us to it
20:29:39 <mchua> Dave_S: Dave! Dave! You missed an excellent convo on open journalism...
20:29:42 <mchua> ...but we have logs!
20:29:44 <paulproteus> http://github.com/jchris/appdrop but unmaintained )-:
20:30:11 <mchua> Dave_S: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teachingopensource/2010-06-17/teachingopensource.2010-06-17-02.47.log.txt
20:30:13 <paulproteus> I think that's all.
20:30:31 <mchua> Dave_S: start at 18:49:19
20:30:55 <mchua> Dave_S: And some of the folks from that convo are still around now - quaid came in at the end, Jefro is often here
20:31:23 <mether> paulproteus, that wont do
20:31:30 <paulproteus> mether: Yeah, now I see that.
20:31:39 <paulproteus> Because of the umaintained, I figure?
20:31:49 <mether> paulproteus, yeah
20:32:05 <mether> paulproteus, but thanks for the pointer
20:35:40 * quaid is working away and here
20:36:09 <quaid> also, it's OK that summer coding ideas are sometimes reinventions or combined-in-to-new ideas
20:36:25 <quaid> I think we'll only want a mix from e.g. openhatch.org type of materials
20:37:05 <mchua> Jefro: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Summer_of_Content
20:37:06 <mchua> btw
20:37:08 <quaid> say ... 50% openhatch content that originated from fedora project, 25% new ideas, 25% stand-alone full ideas that fedora mentors have
20:37:19 <quaid> mchua: I remember that, which was in fact when we first met
20:37:28 <mchua> Jefro: ... it is messy and out of date and inactive, but could be picked up - I'd be happy to help someone do that
20:37:32 <mchua> quaid: or fold it into summer coding
20:37:44 <quaid> we're going to have a new, inclusive name for that soon
20:37:51 <mchua> summer foss?
20:37:54 <mchua> summer contribution?
20:38:00 <quaid> and it will definitely include writing/documenting,design, etc.
20:38:00 <mchua> (same acronym)
20:38:03 <mchua> w00t
20:38:24 <quaid> few discussions on marketing@ so far, rbergeron is enjoying it a bit too much :)
20:38:38 <mchua> quaid: the funny thing is that it's when I was first *exposed* to you (as in, "oh, person exists!") but the first discussion I remember having with you was at FUDCon in Boston in jan '09.
20:38:40 <quaid> mchua: summer is problematic as a term
20:38:45 <mchua> quaid: ...yeah.
20:38:54 <mchua> "student foss co-ops"
20:39:07 <quaid> mchua: I *think* we might have been on a phone call or IRC meeting together about the summer of content
20:39:10 <mchua> uh... /me tries to think of better acronyms, finds marketing@ quaid
20:39:28 <mchua> quaid: Really? Huh. Well, probably not a phone call. :) (SJ Kleain liked those, though, much better than i did...)
20:39:40 <mchua> quaid: were you commarch yet then?
20:40:29 <quaid> yeah, I talked with SJ but remember you from something in writing - probably IRC or email
20:40:38 <quaid> golly ...
20:40:42 <quaid> I think I was working on 108
20:41:11 <quaid> wow, 2007? ...
20:41:22 <mchua> I'd just barely gotten out of school then, I started when i was still in college and was constantly going "oh man, no, I can't do this guys, I don't know how"
20:41:48 <mchua> I only agreed to do it because Sj and Wayne Mackintosh said they'd do it, and they were Adults and therefore Knew Stuff
20:41:57 <quaid> yeah, I was just closing down 108 and starting up Dev Fu (devfu.redhatmagazine.com)
20:41:59 <mchua> and then I ended up doing pretty much all the work
20:42:02 <mchua> Wow.
20:42:18 <quaid> according to 'ls -hal ~/Documents/projects'
20:42:24 * mchua grins
20:42:58 <mchua> one of the reasons I handed the fedora scholarship to ianweller for next year, and want to have it run by the recipients whenever possible, is that I want to remove that sort of "whoa black box scary mystery not something I can do aah!" sheen from programs like this.
20:43:05 <mchua> It's really... just a part of the world you can hack, just like everything else.
20:43:15 <mchua> But lots of people don't realize they can also have that sort of agency.
20:43:26 <quaid> yup
20:43:30 <quaid> part of the bigger TOS mission IMO
20:43:34 <mchua> then again, if you get the scholarship, you probably already *have* a strong sense of agency, so it's... catch-22.
20:43:58 <quaid> yes, but within a mileau (open source projects)
20:44:05 * mchua nods. I do this stuff in large part because I want to scratch the itch of the kid I used to be.
20:44:13 <quaid> so running the scholarship forces going beyond (corporate, academic), applying the sense of agency there
20:44:13 <mchua> quaid: ...true - good point.
20:44:17 * mchua nods
20:44:24 <quaid> some people are great in FOSS and freeze in $Other
20:46:37 <Dave_S> I'm still figuring out my agency.  :  )
20:48:43 <mchua> Dave_S: Dude, you *totally* dove in this week... I couldn't have asked for better, you're literally doing *everything* right
20:52:14 <Dave_S> Oh thank you!  This stuff is wicked cool as we say in Boston.
20:52:45 <mchua> "Bahwstan"
20:54:23 <lmacken> or, as our mayor calls it: "Boferston"
20:57:10 <Dave_S> I have some fantasies about doing some terrestrial remote presence stuff.
20:59:31 <Jefro> wow, you mean like that kind of thing where you can be in one room typing and a bunch of other people can all be in their rooms typing, but you can all see each other's stuff... hey
21:01:21 <mchua> Jefro: oh man, you mean like *different* rooms? whoaaa.
21:02:19 <Jefro> yes! that's the terrestrial remote part
21:04:35 <Dave_S> I am deeply impressed with the Mars Rovers.  For awhile I thought it would be cool to do something like that on the Earth.  Have a flying platform instead, that could travel long distances, and be remotely controlled and renewably powered.
21:05:33 <quaid> true, the Earth generates lots of data on the ground that we miss from satellite.
21:05:39 <Dave_S> I've been doing research on an ill-fated Arctic expedition called the Franklin Expedition, and I've become interested in some of the more remote, largely unpeopled regions of the planet.
21:05:51 <Jefro> Dave_S - have you been following DIY Drones?  IIRC they are short-range but there have been some interesting discussions about long-range vessels, possibly solar powered
21:09:19 <Dave_S> So doing this, it occurred to me that the way to get this one would be using an open source approach
21:10:16 <Dave_S> NO Jefro, I hadnt seen this.  THis is exactly the kind of thing I'm interested in.  Possibly on a blimp or zeppelin platform was what I was thinking of.
21:12:09 <Jefro> Dave_S:  somewhat off topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVY8LoM47xI
21:12:51 <Jefro> I remember reading something recently, possibly from a DIY Drones link, about a plan for floating weather platforms that would stay up for weeks at a time.  looking...
21:12:54 <JonathanD> Hello folks.
21:13:16 <Jefro> Hi JonathanD
21:13:45 <JonathanD> hey Jefro
21:14:00 <ctyler> Hi JonathanD, RITSteve said I should coordinate with you about tomorrow evening
21:14:07 <JonathanD> how was POSSE today? I mised most of the chatter in here today.
21:14:28 <JonathanD> ctyler: we'll be arriving tomorrow around 8pm, I should think. I'd love to meet up with anyone interested for food.
21:14:44 <Jefro> Dave_S here's one link, of course related to the military:  http://www.seattlepi.com/local/70823_dirigibles17.shtml  (obviously I have an interest as well :) )
21:15:00 <ctyler> JonathanD: sounds like a plan. Where should we meet?
21:15:22 <JonathanD> ctyler: I'm not sure, actually
21:15:23 <JonathanD> hold on
21:16:02 <Dave_S> http://diydrones.com/profiles/blog/show?id=705844%3ABlogPost%3A44817
21:16:06 <JonathanD> ok, reread my messages
21:16:10 <Dave_S> DIY Blimp.
21:16:12 <Dave_S> wow
21:16:18 <JonathanD> ctyler: steve is going to email us tonight, I think, with some suggestions.
21:16:40 <JonathanD> us being me and the POSSE crew
21:16:42 <Dave_S> Are we out of the conference room tomorrow?
21:16:43 <JonathanD> I think.
21:17:39 <ctyler> Ok, last message I had from him just said to coordinate directly with you as he probably won't make it.
21:17:43 <mchua> Dave_S: Same location for tomorrow morning, but we end at noon.
21:18:12 <mchua> Dave_S: That having been said, Chris and Luke and I *are* in Rochester until Sunday morning.
21:18:48 <Dave_S> Mel, thanks again for all of the encouragement.  One thing I did not appreciate was how broadly applicable this mindset, the open source approach, is.  I knew in abstract, but I feel like I have the basic tools to connect the dots now.
21:19:26 <ctyler> mchua: we'll need to put the room back together tomorrow, and then I'll need to find a landline before Fedora board meeting at 2pm (or be back here) -- Out-of-country cell roaming rates are $crazy
21:20:09 <Dave_S> I'm going to be out of town on Saturday, out to Lake Erie for a day on the beach at a friend's place.  But I look forward to seeing you and/or Chris in town on your next approach.
21:20:22 <ctyler> mchua: (I mention that just in case something gets proposed for tomorrow afternoon)
21:21:05 <ctyler> Dave_S: Sorry to miss you, hope we can connect another time
21:21:13 <Dave_S> See you in the AM, got to drive the kids home from TaeKwonDo.  : ))  \ /
21:25:19 <mchua> ctyler: noted, sir! you're more than welcome to use my cell phone in a pinch, I never use the minutes on it.
21:25:33 <mchua> ctyler: or... well, wait, wouldn't ftalk work if we can get you wired?
21:26:06 <mchua> quaid: ^ I'll make sure Dave sees TOSW again tomorrow :) (read a few lines up)
21:28:03 <ctyler> mchua: no, the lawyers won't let us use ftalk
21:28:31 <ctyler> much as I'd rather
21:28:40 <ctyler> and unfortunately, the conference rooms fall over too often
21:30:32 <quaid> mchua: thanks
21:30:34 <mchua> ctyler: Wait, really? Why not?
21:30:42 <mchua> ctyler: I thought y'all were testing it some time back for board meetings?
21:30:52 <quaid> only for public
21:30:56 <mchua> ahhhh.
21:31:00 <quaid> the private meetings can't be on an open infra like that
21:31:06 <mchua> Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
21:31:11 <quaid> Board is privy to $secret_stuff_sometimes
21:31:29 * mchua nods, and has reluctantly been learning about that balance on Sugar Labs's board
21:31:58 <mchua> It still makes me twitch when I can't talk about something, so I usually poke at it to make sure there's good reason
21:32:09 <mchua> and then poke at it later in case the situation changes, etc
21:32:50 <mchua> dang, I was going to show engineer http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_bookmarks_SOP
21:35:00 * lmacken doesn't think he is going to catch that much needed nap before dinner & the nba finals :(
21:35:17 <lmacken> oh well, sleep deprivation is fun.
21:35:29 <ganderson> lmacken: coffee :D
21:35:33 <ctyler> sleep is *highly* overrated
21:35:42 <Jefro> mmmmm coffee.... liquid sleep
21:35:43 * ganderson agrees
21:35:55 * ganderson compiles irssi to throw on his school's web server `-`
21:36:13 <ctyler> :-)
21:38:29 <mchua> ganderson: will that be an "if you want persistent IRC and are at RIT, this will Just Work" solution?
21:39:14 * mchua would love to have RIT folks with persistent sessions
21:39:29 <ganderson> mchua: kinda....I'm not comfortable leaving irssi open on my current web hosting solution (cuz it's a shared server).  But RIT...eh...once I get the darn binary made, I can toss it up there
21:40:12 <mchua> ganderson: who'd be able to get an account on that box + use irssi/screen or... whatever else? (I mean, vpn + xchat, cool, but that's a separate setup)
21:40:18 <ganderson> mchua: I used to do persistent IRC when I loved in the residence halls at RIT, cuz I could afford to leave my comp on.  Now that I have these pesky electric bills, I'd rather not..haha
21:40:32 <ganderson> mchua: which box?
21:42:32 <mchua> ganderson: the one you're putting irssi on? you said "your school's web server"
21:42:53 <JonathanD> ganderson: I use a linode for that :)
21:42:59 <JonathanD> (for irssi, I mean)
21:43:05 <JonathanD> But it's a bit expensive for just IRCing.
21:43:10 <ganderson> mchua: yea...it's a really dumbed down public system for students to upload content for basic web classes
21:43:13 <ganderson> JonathanD: linode?
21:43:23 <JonathanD> ganderson: they provide virtual servers
21:43:51 <JonathanD> starting at $20, iirc
21:44:03 <mchua> ctyler: I actually wonder if that would be a good TOS service to offer.
21:44:04 <JonathanD> which are not shells, but behave like full on physical machines.
21:44:16 <JonathanD> mchua: shell accounts/irssi?
21:44:20 <ganderson> JonathanD: oh..I could do a virtual server for ~$15/mo...I don't have the $$$ to do it at the moment, tho
21:44:29 <JonathanD> ah
21:44:31 <mchua> JonathanD: Yeah. Although it *really* seems like the sort of thing individual schools can set up, too.
21:44:39 <mchua> though IT policies are sometimes... well.
21:44:40 <JonathanD> mchua: they can, if they want to ;)
21:44:56 <ganderson> mchua: it should be.  it's ridiculous that our school's servers are so tightly locked down :/
21:44:57 <JonathanD> a single box can serve hundreds, generally.
21:46:24 * mchua nods
21:46:54 <mchua> JonathanD: I mostly want to make sure we wouldn't be putting up a redundant service. If folks can get that from their school, or from the project they're working in, then TOS shouldn't put it up
21:47:10 <JonathanD> understandable.
21:47:35 <ganderson> mchua: I'd have to talk to Gary about it.  I mean..I'm almost keen on getting a lightweight system and setting it up in the lab I usually work in :P
21:48:45 <mchua> ganderson: yes please!
21:49:54 * ganderson snickers at his webhost login
21:50:44 <ganderson> I was bored one day so I compiled cowsay and added the following to my .bash_profile: fortune | cowsay
21:50:54 <ganderson> so whenever I log in, I get a cowsay'd fortune :D
21:51:33 <mchua> NICE
21:52:12 * quaid unsure what all this "compiling" is ...
21:52:23 <quaid> is that like "yum install cowsay" but slower and more difficult?
21:52:29 <quaid> :D
21:53:35 <ganderson> quaid: mhmmm...REAL MEN COMPILE CODE
21:53:36 <ganderson> :P
21:53:59 <mchua> it's not slacking off, is what it is!
21:54:17 * mchua spent a lot of time in school reading webcom-I mean waiting for my code to compile.
21:54:24 <ganderson> anyhow...lady friend's heading out so I gotta pack up.  I'll be heading back to either the golisano college or innovation center on campus :o
21:54:31 <mchua> ganderson: joining us for supper?
21:54:40 <ganderson> mchua: yessum...are you still on the cmapus?
21:54:53 <mchua> ganderson: nah, we're all meeting at bazil's
21:54:58 <mchua> 7pm
21:55:05 <mchua> the empire location, since the henrietta one is closed
21:55:07 <ganderson> alrighty...it's ~20min drive :o
21:55:14 <ganderson> so yea...see ya there @ 7 :P
21:55:15 <mchua> I know :/
21:55:17 * mchua waves
22:09:14 <ctyler> mchua: hmm, an ssh account that just reconnects you to your irssi session, no other options. could be done.
22:10:56 <mchua> ctyler: how would you set it up so that screen -raAD executes automatically upon every user login?
22:11:10 * mchua is sure there is some simple magic for that, doesn't know exactly what that is though.
22:12:27 <ctyler> restricted shell and some startup scripts would probably do it
22:15:23 <mchua> huh, I've never actually looked at rsh before
22:15:25 <mchua> interesting
22:15:30 <mchua> ctyler, lmacken: /me --> lobby
22:16:32 <ctyler> mchua: there in 2 min
11:20:35 * ctyler faces world, can't decide if he's tired or rested
11:42:09 <mchua> ctyler: well, in 5 hours, you can be tired again. :)
11:42:32 <mchua> ctyler: We can figure out the game plan for today in the car on the way over, no worries.
11:42:52 * ctyler tries to remember the complete list of topics we said we'd get to :-)
11:44:36 <mchua> ctyler: we'll write it on the board when we get in.
11:50:28 <mchua> ctyler: heading out
11:51:05 * ctyler heads out too
12:13:36 <Dave_S> Hellooo are there folks already there at RIT?
12:13:52 <JonathanD> Morning Dave_S
12:13:58 <ganderson> goodgood
12:14:02 <Dave_S> Hi Jon.
12:17:15 <Dave_S> I'm not going to be there this morning.  I was unable to get coverage for my daughter, who's last school day was yesteraday.  However.  I am available as a telepresence.  : )  I'm hoping that Mel or Chris can set me up on Skype so I can listen in.   Barring that I'll monitor this channel here.
12:17:44 <ganderson> Dave_S: we'll see! :D
12:20:18 <JonathanD> Dave_S: will you be with us at fosscon tomorrow?
12:21:15 <Dave_S> No, I would seriously have love to be there, but we had prior arrangements to go to a cottage on Lake Erie for the weekend.  : (
12:21:31 <Dave_S> actually that should be   : )
12:21:42 <JonathanD> sorry to hear that, but have fun!
12:31:55 <mchua> Dave_S: Ack! Today is the only day I didn't bring in my camera - but I'll transcribe and I think we'll be actually collaboratively transcribing on Gobby, so you can join in.
12:32:18 <Dave_S> cool
12:32:49 <Dave_S> that will be just fine
12:33:08 <mchua> Dave_S: you can help by peppering us with questions in this channel and/or on gobby when we don't transcribe enough ;)
12:33:20 <mchua> feedback from remotees helps keep us honest about how good a job of note-taking we're doing
12:33:43 <mchua> (we're still waiting for folks to trickle in)
12:33:59 <mchua> actually, I need to start the logs for the new day...
12:34:01 <mchua> #endmeeting