19:15:41 <mchua> #startmeeting
19:15:41 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jun 15 19:15:41 2010 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:15:41 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:15:46 <mchua> #chair lmacken ctyler
19:15:46 <zodbot> Current chairs: ctyler lmacken mchua
19:50:06 <JonathanD> Good day folks?
20:15:06 <mchua> JonathanD: Long day, but a good one - we're starting to get used to things in here. :)
20:15:52 <mchua> JonathanD: My favorite part of the day was lunch, and immediately afterwards - I was in #sugar helping out nhacbv (a student) with a wall he'd hit, and used that afterwards to illustrate the sort of dialogue/question-asking skills FOSS community participants need to get help from those beyond their local area.
20:17:10 <JonathanD> awesome.
21:38:51 <ganderson> mchua, ctyler: ping
21:39:41 <ctyler> ganderson: pong
21:39:59 <ganderson> ctyler: are you gonna update the deliverables section on the wiki to clarify what we need for tomorrow?
21:40:22 <ctyler> yes, thanks for the reminder :-)
21:40:26 * ctyler goes and edits wiki
21:41:11 <ganderson> ctyler: thanks!
22:06:49 <ctyler> ganderson: updated: http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_RIT#Glossary
22:09:16 <ganderson> ctyler: thank ya
22:10:33 <ctyler> whoops, I mean the Deliverables section
00:34:09 <gary_at_RIT> hello
00:34:56 <gary_at_RIT> ianweller ping
00:35:11 <ianweller> gary_at_RIT: yo
00:35:42 <gary_at_RIT> ianweller: what was you web site again?
00:35:47 <ianweller> gary_at_RIT: ianweller.org
00:36:19 <gary_at_RIT> ianweller:  Do you mind if I mention you (and it) in my blog?
00:37:14 <ianweller> gary_at_RIT: not at all
00:49:39 <DaveS_> Dave Shein from the RIT POSSE here.  I had to bug out early this afternoon to pick up my kids from school.  Is there anyone who can answer some basic questions about making a Fedora remix?
01:00:03 <gary_at_RIT> i can try
01:00:57 <gary_at_RIT> ianweller:  my blog is at garyatrit.wordpress.com if you are curious about what I wrote
01:02:01 <gary_at_RIT> DaveS_ ping
01:02:14 <DaveS_> hey there
01:02:17 <DaveS_> pong
01:02:46 <DaveS_> gary_at_RIT_pong
01:03:00 <gary_at_RIT> what kind of questions did you have?
01:03:32 <DaveS_> I take it that the "non-coder" option for tonight's deliverables is the Fedora remix, yes?
01:03:41 <gary_at_RIT> no
01:04:00 <gary_at_RIT> tonight we are just suppose to think about a project and a team
01:04:07 <DaveS_> ahhh, k all of the other options seemed to require coding knowledge.
01:04:10 <DaveS_> ahh, k
01:04:29 <gary_at_RIT> did they update the list of possible projects?
01:04:51 <DaveS_> did Chris send out an update?  hahha. no I have a printout from earlier.
01:05:07 <DaveS_> printed out Sunday night b4 POSSE started,
01:05:30 <DaveS_> So just think about a project and a team?
01:06:11 <gary_at_RIT> basically they would like us to pick one of the three projects on the web site
01:06:30 <gary_at_RIT> such as updating the docs for a project or something
01:07:02 <gary_at_RIT> and get a person or two together for a team
01:07:28 <gary_at_RIT> we are also suppose to blog about our choice
01:07:35 <DaveS_> Here i went and installed the Fedora live-cd package.  Okay.  Do you know where the projects are posted?
01:07:55 <DaveS_> Cool, I've got a blog post started.
01:08:06 <gary_at_RIT> here:  http://www.teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_RIT#Deliverables_2  at the bottom of the page
01:09:40 <gary_at_RIT> the remix is interesting as I have never been able to get one to work.  But I always try using revisor.  maybe there is another tool
01:10:06 <DaveS_> Okay, I"m officially a moron.  When I saw "consider and select" I took that to mean "do" but I can see that it does not.
01:10:18 * ctyler finds Revisor so broken that it's unusable
01:10:55 <gary_at_RIT> is there another way to create an up to date dvd iso ?
01:12:04 <DaveS_> I think I'd like to do that, even though I'm not part of a working group or department.  Seems like it would be a good look under the hood of the car.
01:12:38 <gary_at_RIT> actually, I wouldn
01:12:42 <gary_at_RIT> oops
01:13:17 <gary_at_RIT> I wouldnt mind making a small iso of 32 and 64 bit fedora with virtualbox installed on it for my home servers
01:14:14 <gary_at_RIT> well, I am turning in. see you tomorrow
01:16:52 <DaveS_> Is there a configuration of Fedora that will run on an old Mototola G3?
02:54:20 <quaid> G3 ... wow, not sure if the PPC supports that
02:55:21 <quaid> mchua_afk: please to dump POSSE-lunch-teachable-moment at https://theopensourceway.org/wiki/Great_stories_to_tell
02:55:35 <quaid> that's where the stories that illustrate multiple points go
02:55:43 <quaid> ideally we go and link back to the relevant sections, etc.
02:55:54 <quaid> you can do a brain dump if you wish and let me be all editordude for you later
02:55:57 <quaid> if you like
03:00:50 <quaid> oi mate
03:04:59 <quaid> cool, I have one follow-up phone call with one of the (few, cancelled) POSSE Cali applicants
03:05:07 * quaid remembers to send that status to the list ...
12:08:12 * ganderson yawns and waves g'morning
12:21:26 <ctyler> 'morning y'all
12:22:14 <ganderson> ctyler: on the deliverables for yesterday, the link for the "measure activity" sends me to the "Physics 4 activity"... :P
12:24:26 <ctyler> ganderson: whoops. Would you mind fixing?
12:25:45 <ganderson> uh...sure h/o
12:27:06 <mchua> quaid: Can do, will have some stuff to write up for projects and such while Chris is talking today.
12:27:33 * mchua really wishes she had a couple extra hours of "get stuff done" time per day, but hopefully will be able to take next week as "backlog week"
12:27:39 <ganderson> ctyler: fixed
12:27:52 <mchua> We could make things easier at POSSEs if we had a bunch of tools (better registration, universal account creation across all projects, not just Fedora, etc...)
12:28:09 <mchua> ianweller: how much of your time can I steal this summer for POSSE infra? ;)
12:28:33 * mchua plans on telling spevack that this doesn't scale well unless we do $foo, $bar, $baz
12:28:51 <mchua> values of those metasyntactic variables to come when I have more of a chance to reflect after cleaning up backlogs from both weeks.
12:32:53 <mchua> #chair ctyler
12:32:53 <zodbot> Current chairs: ctyler lmacken mchua
12:32:59 <mchua> #topic Wednesday morning start
12:33:10 <mchua> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_RIT#Wednesday
12:37:56 <ctyler> mchua: have you invited other local OS people yet?
12:38:53 <ganderson> mornin' posse_projector
12:39:01 <posse_projector> 'morning
12:39:23 <mchua> ctyler: Yep, they're reaching out to others, so far we have Karlie, Todd, and Charles
12:39:33 <mchua> (Fedora/Sugar, Ubuntu, local LUG)
12:39:37 <mchua> respectively
12:39:53 <ctyler> great!
12:39:58 <ganderson> mchua: ubuntu what? :)
12:39:59 <mchua> And possibly Todd & Karlie's kids, who are in general excited about Sugar and such - not sure if they'll be with us yet.
12:40:19 <mchua> ganderson: The fun thing is that Karlie's a very active Fedora ambassador, and Todd's $dayjob is Ubuntu dev. :)
12:40:26 <gary_at_RIT> morning all
12:40:32 <ganderson> nice :P
12:40:37 <mchua> ganderson: They're great - I'll usually either stay with them or Steve when I'm in Rochester.
12:41:29 <ganderson> ahhh :P
12:41:32 <ganderson> who's Todd?
12:41:51 <mchua> ganderson: Todd Robinson, Karlie's husband.
12:41:58 <mchua> We haven't met him yet.
12:42:00 <ganderson> oh okay
12:43:50 <mchua> #info We're taking a look at TOS Planet right now.
12:43:53 <mchua> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/Planet
12:44:13 <mchua> #info Mel points out that the most recent post's first paragraph *exactly* sums up what we're trying to accomplish this week.
12:44:16 <mchua> #link http://independentimageworks.blogspot.com/2010/06/posse-day-2.html
12:44:22 <mchua> (so thank you, Michael!)
12:44:49 * pfroehlich waves groggily
12:45:13 <mchua> morning, pfroehlich!
12:45:18 <mchua> what are you up to today? :)
12:46:50 <pfroehlich> mchua: i need to get a caffeine transfusion first
12:46:59 <RITSteve> Good Morning all
12:47:01 <ganderson> 'lo
12:47:51 <sdziallas> pfroehlich: let me join you for that!
12:48:57 <Dave_S> Howdy!
12:49:41 <Dave_S> mel:  I just posted another blog post, regarding communications issue we discussed yesterday.
12:50:23 <mchua> #idea Sugar Labs uses openid, next time have everyone just make one instead of signing up for lots of accounts.
12:50:44 <mchua> #idea Keep everyone in just one community for the first day, instead of two.
12:52:09 <pfroehlich> mchua: hear hear, OpenID! :-D
12:53:21 * mchua should really learn more about that. I have one, I know... multiple, since I have a google acct and other accts that provide openid... but I have never really used them.
12:53:35 <pfroehlich> sdziallas: what's the best read on how to roll my own SoaS with additional stuff in it? :-D
12:53:54 <mchua> pfroehlich: In fact, there is a PDF on exactly that topic. :D
12:53:55 <mchua> one sec...
12:54:01 <sdziallas> pfroehlich: http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/docs/customization-guide/
12:54:02 <mchua> pfroehlich: http://mirrors.rit.edu/sugarlabs/soas/docs/customization-guide/index.html
12:54:07 <mchua> sdziallas: jinx
12:54:12 <pfroehlich> thanks
12:54:17 <mchua> ...oh wow, RIT mirrors everything. Huh!
12:54:23 <mchua> pfroehlich: er, use sdziallas's link.
12:54:38 <mchua> pfroehlich: The documentation may, er, need improvement. Patches very very very welcome
12:54:42 <mchua> .
12:54:56 <mchua> pfroehlich: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Documentation_SOP
12:55:04 <mchua> pfroehlich: (and if that process is overly onerous, you know where to find us in #sugar. ;)
12:56:17 <ganderson> mchua: ping
12:56:26 <ianweller> mchua: that's up to spevack ;)
12:58:01 <ganderson> mchua: ping again :D
12:58:09 <pfroehlich> ganderson: pong
12:58:26 <ganderson> :P
12:58:35 <ganderson> mchua is showing irssi on screen
12:58:54 <ganderson> mchua: you should do C-a "  (it shows  a list of open screens! :o)
12:59:06 * pfroehlich is scared by hotkeys
13:00:32 <ganderson> mchua: and double quote
13:00:41 <ganderson> mchua: C-a "
13:00:52 <ganderson> that's a list of open screens :P
13:03:30 <mchua> #info If you want to have persistent IRC connections (recommended), check out an irssi + screen setup.
13:03:33 <mchua> #link http://www.irssi.org/documentation
13:03:44 <mchua> #link http://quadpoint.org/articles/irssi
13:04:05 <mchua> #info Chris, Mel, Luke, and possibly others are willing to help folks set this up for themselves in small teams later this afternoon.
13:04:07 <sdziallas> (it's awesome!)
13:05:22 <ganderson> mchua: don't forget the graphical side for other folks: http://xchat.org/ (linux + source) -- http://www.silverex.org/ (freeware windows build of xchat) -- http://sourceforge.net/projects/xchataqua/ (mac spin of xchat)
13:05:30 <mchua> ganderson: #link 'em ;)
13:05:32 <mchua> #chair ganderson
13:05:32 <zodbot> Current chairs: ctyler ganderson lmacken mchua
13:05:50 <mchua> ganderson: but then they have to set up / hook into a proxy to get persistent sessions.
13:06:05 <ganderson> mchua: vnc / RDP :)
13:06:19 <mchua> Heh, I guess that works!
13:06:24 * mchua hasn't used vnc for so long.
13:06:58 <JonathanD> Morning.
13:08:08 <RITSteve> Now in xchat aqua
13:08:13 <ganderson> #info X-Chat IRC client for people who like their mice :)
13:08:15 <ganderson> #link http://xchat.org/
13:08:22 <ganderson> #link http://www.silverex.org/
13:08:26 <RITSteve> and their macs :-)
13:08:27 <ganderson> #link http://sourceforge.net/projects/xchataqua/
13:08:49 <Andrea_H> hi all. obviously i'm running late today. i'm going to follow along from my office this morning until i teach. I see you in person just before 11am with my students.
13:09:19 <RITSteve> Andrea_H: see you at 11:00 :-)
13:09:58 <ganderson> Andrea_H: okay! I'm not sure if it was mentioned earlier, but at the end of everyday, you can see the meeting minutes on the wiki. (http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_RIT#Tuesday click on the 'minutes' for yesterday's minutes).
13:11:41 <ganderson> hello mlutz
13:12:31 <mchua> Andrea_H: Then we have a good incentive to transcribe. :)
13:12:47 <Andrea_H> Thanks everyone!
13:12:50 <mchua> #info Right now we're going around giving feedback - what was the highlight of the week so far, what was the most frustrating part, what we need to change.
13:12:55 <mchua> Andrea_H: Comments? :)
13:13:54 <Andrea_H> mchua: I'm enjoying it. Some of the technical stuff has been challenging, but I understand better the collaborative nature of open source. I'm getting lots of ideas!
13:13:55 <mlutz> Well, I just got in after sitting under a bridge for 30 minutes (bike ride in) and cleaning up. I also have a task to do for our curriculum switchover I've been asked to complete ASAP, so I won't be up today. See you all tomorrow.  Mike
13:14:41 <mchua> Andrea_H: What technical part has been most challenging (or what aspect of the week has been most frustrating?)
13:15:11 <mchua> Andrea_H: And we'd love to hear some of those ideas, too. ;)
13:15:13 <RITSteve> mlutz;  Stay warm!
13:15:56 <Andrea_H> probably just looking at code. i have experience coding statistics and i was pleased to find that this helped me understand the logic of computer coding too
13:18:10 <mchua> Andrea_H: Gotcha - we're trying to to focus *too* much on code... one of the reasons we did publican and wiki stuff as well is that we're trying to show folks how this can be used to make other things well
13:18:16 <mchua> Andrea_H: You do journalism, iirc?
13:18:46 <skuhaneck> RITSteve: you may want to look at the open education disc http://www.theopendisc.com/education/ it provides a collection of open source software with a focus on education and students
13:19:20 <mchua> Andrea_H: you might be interested in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN - it's Fedora's project newspaper
13:19:38 <mchua> Andrea_H: and http://gnomejournal.org/ - which is GNOME's
13:20:42 <mchua> ctyler: ^^ a few messages up - sounds like mlutz isn't with us today.
13:21:25 <Andrea_H> thanks for the links. i was also interested in the sync.in website yesterday.  also, i'm wondering if doing a wiki for a class might be better than using RIT's system mycourses
13:21:43 <ganderson> Andrea_H: RIT has a wiki system they setup in the past year
13:21:53 <RITSteve> skuhaneck: thanks, good pointer.  Also looked at the fedora design spin as a base for an cias spin
13:22:00 <ganderson> Andrea_H: https://wiki.rit.edu/dashboard.action I think they were starting to integrate it with MC last year, but I'm not sure
13:22:00 * mchua doesn't know what the mycourses system looks like - RITSteve and Dave_S might be able to speak to the wiki thing, since their Sugar class used the SL wiki for a lot of their work.
13:22:08 <ganderson> Andrea_H: I believe you can submit to use it for a course, though.
13:22:10 <skuhaneck> Andrea_H: you can request space on rit's wiki space which is also provided by the same department as mycourses, http://wiki.rit.edu
13:22:51 <ganderson> Andrea_H: as for some links/tools.  feel free to look and update this! --> http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_RIT#Useful_tools
13:23:05 <RITSteve> Wiki and My courses do differen things really
13:23:12 <ganderson> mchua: one of the RIT folk can show you the MyCourses system later, if you'd like :o
13:23:27 <mchua> ganderson: can you give me a quick descript of what it is? /me googles real fast
13:23:31 <Andrea_H> do students seem to prefer wikis over mycourses? I theory, i like the wikis b/c the students have to take more responsibility where as on mycourses i upload everything
13:23:42 * mchua can't tell much about https://mycourses.rit.edu/index.asp
13:24:22 <ganderson> Andrea_H: as RITSteve said, MyCourses and wikis are really for different things.  I'd think MyCourses is more for course management and a wiki is more for course discussion
13:24:25 <mchua> Andrea_H: That is one benefit of wikis - I had a professor in college who did her class website as a wiki, and every week a different student was assigned to make sure that notes from class for the week were up.
13:24:54 <mchua> Andrea_H: And they'd not necessarily take all the notes themselves during class, but instead would serve as the editor for class notes others took (we dumped our raw notes on the wiki, and that student would clean up)
13:25:02 <RITSteve> Andrea_H:  Just whar I was gonna say :-)  Wikis good for sharing informations and "posts", etc
13:25:03 <skuhaneck> mchua: mycourses is rit's version of desire2learn http://www.desire2learn.com/ course management software
13:25:20 <mchua> Andrea_H: that way, we all got all the info - since inevitably someone else would write down something I'd missed in lecture - and the prof also knew what we had gotten, and what we'd missed
13:25:32 <RITSteve> Andrea_H: for that notes approach a wiki would be great
13:25:33 <mchua> skuhaneck: ah, cool - thanks!
13:25:48 <mchua> Wow, that desire2learn frontpage has... marketing on it.
13:26:12 <ganderson> mchua: I think it's also comparable to moodle ( http://moodle.org/ )
13:26:17 <mchua> "Let's transform teaching and learning together." "networked learning experiences." "...you will always have a system you can count on to ensure you maintain a leadership position."
13:26:57 <RITSteve> mchua:  Like most marketing, the promise is much better than the reality
13:27:19 <mchua> ganderson: Yeah, looking at the desire2learn website, that's what it looks like to me too.
13:28:24 <skuhaneck> mchua: its the same as moodle or blackboard basically
13:29:01 * mchua nods, has had... experience with blackboard.
13:29:05 * mchua shudders
13:29:11 <mchua> I am... glad to be out of that.
13:29:45 <Dave_S> This bug tracking process makes me think of ants carrying pieces of food, detritus about.
13:30:23 <Dave_S> In a good way, btw
13:30:24 <mchua> Dave_S: I think that's not a bad analogy.
13:30:29 <mchua> #topic Bugtrackers!
13:30:59 <mchua> #info We're going to demo bugzilla and the usage of bugzilla to track an issue - and find issues.
13:31:02 <mchua> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/
13:31:02 <ganderson> #link http://bugzilla.redhat.com
13:31:06 * pfroehlich thinks blackboard must be run by ex M$ marketing people under SteveB
13:31:06 <ganderson> woop...lol
13:31:10 <mchua> ganderson: jinx!
13:31:12 <skuhaneck> mchua: same goes for d2l, its only slightly better.  There is a push to move to moodle or sakai http://sakaiproject.org/ which are both open source
13:31:34 <Andrea_H> NPR had a great story on this morning about Google phasing our Windows
13:31:35 <mchua> #info You can build a query for the kind of bugs you're looking for.
13:31:39 <mchua> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/query.cgi
13:32:24 * pfroehlich thinks national petroleum radio :-D
13:32:28 <ganderson> Andrea_H: I remember reading about that a couple days ago
13:32:55 <ganderson> Andrea_H: I think one of the big reasons was the "attach from china" that happened a couple weeks (or was it months?) ago
13:33:03 <ganderson> s/attach/attack
13:33:34 <Andrea_H> ganderson: yes, that is what the official line is, but an analyst they interviewed in reading this incident as part of a larger war between the companies
13:34:59 <mchua> #info We're looking at bug #499836, "keyboard does not work at the GRUB menu."
13:35:03 <mchua> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=499836
13:35:04 <ganderson> Andrea_H: interesting.  Do you know if NPR has a downloadable audio file (or better, a transcription) available?
13:35:34 <mchua> #info Everything at the top of that bug is metadata that lets us find and work with it more easily, and manage it - status, aliases, product, component, etc.
13:36:03 <mchua> #info The bug itself is described in the description, of course.
13:36:05 <RITSteve> jonathanD:  several messages in e-mail from MIchelle L today
13:36:05 <mchua> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=499836#c0
13:36:19 <RITSteve> mchua: check e-mail from Michelle L
13:36:39 <mchua> #info The definition of a good bug report is "something that gets the bug closed." So you have to be (1) precise and (2) persuasive - bug advocacy (persuading folks that this bug is worth the effort it will take to fix) is crucial.
13:36:41 <JonathanD> RITSteve: you'll have URLs shortly :)
13:37:03 <JonathanD> we need linode to provide one but then we're set, I do believe.
13:37:09 <Andrea_H> ganderson: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127874293
13:37:14 <RITSteve> JonathanD:  Send them straight to jschull@gmail.com.  I'm outta the loop on that piece
13:37:17 <JonathanD> ok.
13:37:20 <mchua> #info You can do this by proving to them it is important to fix, by showing them how it is easy to fix (the more work you can do so that developers don't have to pick it up, and the more resources you can set up for the eventual bug-fixer, the better), or hopefully, both.
13:37:22 <JonathanD> Will do.
13:37:24 <JonathanD> Thanks.
13:37:49 <mchua> #info More on bug advocacy at...
13:37:54 <mchua> #link http://www.kaner.com/pdfs/BugAdvocacy.pdf
13:38:20 <mchua> #info Some links on how to write good bug reports:
13:38:23 <mchua> #link http://www.softwaretestinghelp.com/how-to-write-good-bug-report/
13:38:23 <Andrea_H> ganderson: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127874297  --this is the right one, the other story is good too
13:38:29 <mchua> #link http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
13:38:37 <mchua> #link http://itscommonsensestupid.blogspot.com/2008/07/tips-to-write-good-bug-report.html
13:38:40 <ganderson> Andrea_H: thanks!
13:38:59 <mchua> #info Individual projects will sometimes have their own "how we prefer bug reports to be written" guidelines as well.
13:39:03 <mchua> #link http://docs.moodle.org/en/How_to_write_a_good_bug_report
13:39:07 <mchua> #link http://wiki.songbirdnest.com/Developer/Articles/How_To_Write_a_Good_Bug_Report
13:39:10 <mchua> #link https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Bug_writing_guidelines
13:40:21 <mchua> #info Tickets are individual tasks, so "take a ticket!" is often a good student project. How do you find things that are good student projects?
13:40:55 <mchua> #info One way to do that is to look for keywords - sometimes projects have a keyword that they use to tag bugs that are new developers to fix.
13:41:35 <mchua> #info In Sugar, this is sugar-love.
13:41:37 <mchua> #link http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/query?status=accepted&status=assigned&status=new&status=reopened&order=priority&col=id&col=summary&col=priority&col=status&col=owner&col=type&col=milestone&keywords=~sugar-love
13:42:44 <mchua> #info In Fedora, this is StudentProject.
13:42:49 <mchua> #info https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?keywords=StudentProject&resolution=---
13:43:14 <mchua> #info These keywords aren't always accurate nor up-to-date... if you don't find useful things in there, ask around in the community to help you/your students scope out good projects.
13:43:29 <mchua> #info Chris is walking through the different bugzilla fields right now - most of them are in the links I have put in above.
13:43:48 <mchua> #info Here's a general "fields in bugzilla" reference, too.
13:43:52 <mchua> #link http://tldp.org/LDP/bugzilla/Bugzilla-Guide/how.html
13:44:12 <mchua> Andrea_H: (I'm trying to make sure you and the other remotees don't miss on any information, though I'm putting it in in a slightly different order than Chris is saying it because of the links I can find for this material.)
13:45:00 <Andrea_H> mchua: no problem. this is good. i'm getting ready to log off and head to my class now. i'll see you soon.
13:45:07 <mchua> Andrea_H: Have fun!
13:46:17 <RITSteve> mchua:  What's the link/mode you used to show just the tagged iterms from the channel?
13:46:54 <mchua> RITSteve: It'll only show up in the meeting notes, which are generated when you end the logs for the day - I'll bring this up at 11am, end the log then, so you can see it for the morning.
13:47:10 <mchua> (so we'll have morning *and* afternoon logs for today, which are separate - not a bad idea, since afternoon == projects.)
13:47:19 <RITSteve> mchua:  Great
13:47:45 <mchua> #info Filing a bug is the beginning of a conversation - you can see that conversation in the comments on a bug.
13:48:12 <mchua> #info For instance, this comment says "hey, I have this problem too."
13:48:15 <mchua> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=499836#c2
13:49:14 <mchua> #info Bugs usually go back and forth ("I think this is a bug," "Yes, it's a bug," "I need more information about the problem," "I think I have a solution," "Nope, doesn't work yet, this happens..." "Oh, try this patch instead", "Yeah, that works!" "Bug is fixed!") until either they're fixed or someone decides the bug won't be fixed.
13:49:33 <RITSteve> what's the command to open a private irc window?  trying to figure it out for xcat aqua
13:49:42 <JonathanD> RITSteve: /query
13:49:57 <RITSteve> JonathanD: Thx
13:50:00 <JonathanD> /query nickname, that is.
13:50:11 <JonathanD> np
13:50:12 <mchua> #info And in the end, it may be decided that a bug will *not* be fixed - for instance, this bug is likely not going to be fixed because the version it refers to is now out-of-date.
13:50:16 <mchua> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=499836#c7
13:55:07 <mchua> #info Bugs may also be closed because they're duplicates of a bug that has already been reported (Closed: duplicate) - in which case they're just pointed to refer to that other bug.
13:55:20 <mchua> #info Bugs may also be closed because nobody can reproduce it, so there's no indication that there is a bug.
13:56:13 <mchua> #info Bugs can also be closed as WONTFIX - that is, "you are describing something that the software does in fact do, but we do not think that what you are describing is a bug that we need to (or can) fix, so we won't work on it."
13:56:32 <mchua> #info These things are subject to debate, for the record. ;) Just because someone says something does not mean you have to agree.
13:59:24 <mchua> #info When looking at the conversations in bug comments, looking at the dates and names to see how old the convo is and who's in it is a good idea.
14:00:05 <mchua> #info One of the analogies that came up in POSSE Worcester was that it's like reading research - after a while, you know who writes about what, you recognize the names in the conversations, you have a sense for what topics of discussion are hot and which ones have cooled down for a bit. You get the same sense for projects in FOSS.
14:03:43 <mchua> #info You can get bugmail - you can add bugs to something called a "watchlist," and automatically get email updates when that bug gets updated.
14:06:24 <mchua> #info The Sugar Labs bugtracker:
14:06:30 <mchua> #link http://bugs.sugarlabs.org
14:06:59 <RITSteve_tries_c> Trac :-)
14:09:32 <ganderson> from my experience, Trac is more of a system to use if you have end users reporting "tickets" (since it feels more "user-friendly" than bugzilla)
14:10:13 <mchua> #info Some projects use Trac, some projects use Bugzilla, some projects use another tracker... use whatever system the project you're working with uses, and pick your favorite if you're starting your own.
14:12:50 <ganderson> there's also some nifty plugins that can be used for Trac: http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/PluginList
14:12:59 <RITSteve> mchua: So my guys have been using fedora hosted for their projects
14:13:25 <mchua> RITSteve: Yep - I think that gives them Trac.
14:13:35 <mchua> ganderson: repeat your last statement with an #info in front of it
14:13:43 <mchua> ganderson: (and yeah, my plugin is called TracBacks)
14:13:47 <RITSteve> mchua: can you show that as an account that gives you a collection of tools right off?  And perhaps discuss if I would ever use Fedora Hosted for a non-fedora project?
14:14:01 <mchua> RITSteve: Yes!
14:14:04 <mchua> ctyler: ^^ next
14:14:39 <ganderson> #info there's also some nifty plugins that can be used for Trac: http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/PluginList
14:14:43 <RITSteve> KarlieRobinson: Howdy
14:15:03 <mchua> #info Bugzilla tends to have more features useful to large FOSS projects (dependency tracking between bugs, etc) than Trac.
14:15:48 <mchua> #info Back briefly to bugmail - here's a good explanatory link for that:
14:15:52 <mchua> #link https://wiki.mozilla.org/Education/Courseware/MozillaForProfessors#Bugzilla
14:16:27 <mchua> #info Chris is now talking about review flags, using Fedora's bugzilla as an example. These are ways of "tagging" a bug so that a certain team puts it into their to-do queue.
14:18:07 <mchua> #info If you're starting your own FOSS project, there are places that will set up and host infrastructure for you.
14:18:12 <mchua> #info One example is Fedorahosted.
14:18:15 <mchua> #link https://fedorahosted.org/web/about
14:18:36 <RITSteve> fossrit is a master for stuff that has grown out of my classes
14:18:44 <RITSteve> in fedora hosted
14:18:47 <mchua> #info This is for any FOSS project, and will automatically give you a bug tracker (Trac), version control and code hosting (git, cvs, svn, etc), and more for your projects.
14:18:51 <mchua> RITSteve: link? :D
14:19:13 <mchua> #info Other alternatives are services such as sourceforge, etc.
14:19:17 <RITSteve> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fossrit/
14:19:49 <mchua> (thanks RITSteve! Do you want to pipe up and talk about that briefly in the room?)
14:19:56 <RITSteve> yah
14:20:33 <mchua> #info One danger is that student projects that start up in sourceforge, etc. wither and die because of lack of connection to a bigger community - so encourage your students to release early and releaes often, and reach out about their code to others.
14:20:55 <mchua> #info In other words, get your code to a minimally usable state as fast as possible - even within a week - and go out, get others to use it, asap.
14:22:30 <mchua> #info Steve's talking about the FOSS@RIT project right now; ask him for more detail if you're reading these logs.
14:24:09 * pfroehlich likes FOSS@RIT :-D
14:24:17 <KarlieRobinson> hi RITSteve - sorry for the delay responding to the ping
14:24:43 <RITSteve> pfroehlich: Danke :-)
14:25:13 <RITSteve> KarlieRobinson: np :-)
14:26:41 <mchua> #info We just decided that there are two topics we should cover tomorrow
14:27:20 <mchua> #info What a student project looks like to the FOSS community - picking a project from inside RIT and having ctyler and mchua look at it and give their impressions on how that project's doing at engaging folks from outside RIT to help
14:27:54 <mchua> #info How to gauge the activity of an unfamiliar project and dive in - pick a project someone here is interested in but hasn't started with yet, and have ctyler and mchua go through a 10-minute demo of how they'd start.
14:28:07 <ganderson> GenJamGuy: have you checked MIDI stuff WRT to python? --> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonInMusic
14:29:38 <mchua> #topic Intro to projects for the rest of the week
14:35:08 <mchua> #info Vocabulary: i18n == "internationali(z/s)ation" (saves typing *and* arguments over American vs British English!)
14:35:50 <mchua> #info Vocabulary: l10n = "locali(z/s)ation"
14:40:49 <mchua> #topic How to dive into a new project: Mel's demo
14:41:23 <ganderson> mchua: suggestions where --> audacity, k3b, xournal
14:41:48 <ctyler> #info Diving into Audacity
14:42:02 <ganderson> #link audacity.sourceforge.net
14:43:49 <ganderson> #info Mel's looking at information on Audacity's "Get Involved" page as a 'user'
14:44:14 <RITSteve> #link http://audacity.sourceforge.net/community/users
14:45:07 <ganderson> #info Mel's discovered a mailing list and developer list.  She's looking through the lists to see how active the community is.
14:48:11 <ctyler> #info The web site says that the language is C++
14:48:37 <ganderson> #info Mel's showing Ohloh, which allows you to find information about various projects
14:48:46 <ganderson> #link http://www.ohloh.net/
14:48:46 <RITSteve> #link http://www.ohloh.net/
14:48:54 <ganderson> jinx :P
14:49:00 <RITSteve> ganderson: Beat yah :-)
14:49:49 <ganderson> #info Mel's saying that she would probably join the mailing list for a project right at the start (before posting, herself), just to see what kind of posts are going through
14:50:44 <RITSteve> open video chat on ohlo
14:50:52 <RITSteve> #link http://www.ohloh.net/p/openvideochat
14:52:01 <ctyler> #info IRC channel is irc://irc.freenode.net/audacity
14:52:34 <ctyler> #info Good to lurk on a channel for a while to see culture and main players.
15:00:17 <RITSteve> mchua:  this kind of stuff is useful, should be turned into a faq or something about how to evaluate a community before you join
15:01:11 <RITSteve> ctyler:  Have an obligation at our original lunch time, 12-1  will get back to the room as soon as I canafter one. Will miss the first hour of stuff
15:03:21 <ctyler> RITSteve: np
15:04:38 <RITSteve> mchua:  also "values" project and members in terms of time=$
15:09:35 <mchua> #note We'll cover openhatch on Friday.
15:09:37 <mchua> paulproteus: ^
15:10:49 <ctyler> #info Lunch!
15:11:05 <RITSteve> and adios
15:13:40 * pfroehlich thinks paulproteus is a mysterious stranger
15:13:51 * pfroehlich waves at mihaela
15:14:46 <pfroehlich> posse_projector: wow the projector doesn't get lunch :-/
15:15:14 <sdziallas> pfroehlich: the posse_projector has been a bad guy and hence doesn't get lunch, I suspect :)
15:15:34 <pfroehlich> sdziallas, posse_projector: poor little projector
15:15:39 * pfroehlich pats projector
15:15:43 * sdziallas grins
15:16:01 * pfroehlich getting hungry myself :-D
15:16:17 <paulproteus> Hellooooo pfroehlich!
15:16:56 * mihaela waves back at peter
15:19:06 * pfroehlich is making a sandwich
15:25:18 <ganderson> ctyler: just curious.  For the "SOAS Activity Inclusion Process" area for the afternoon projects, how would you find/isolate a project that needs help (or rather, that extra little bit)?
15:31:31 <ctyler> ganderson: I think Mel will have a shortlist :-)
15:32:17 <mchua_afk> ganderson: Yes, I will.
15:32:23 <ctyler> But without Mel, the approach would probably be to compare the most popular activities with the list of approved activities
15:32:50 <ctyler> which would probably yield some good candidates.
15:35:23 <ctyler> Folks, let's stretch lunch a little bit so we dont' starve :-)   Let's say 12:30
15:48:54 <mchua> ganderson: I'm thinking of the IRC activity, because I'm a selfish maintainer and I have an intern working on it who could use some help. ;) But we'll see what else there iw.
15:48:59 <mchua> er, is.
15:53:06 <ganderson> mchua: mmm...I was looking at that, but I wasn't sure what needs to be done, specificially
15:54:29 <mchua> ganderson: I think nhacbv in #sugar could tell you. ;)
15:54:44 <mchua> ganderson: we'll also talk about it after lunch - there's code stuff he's working on, and there's a lot of non-code stuff that just needs to be done.
15:54:57 <mchua> And there are tons of other Activities that the group might prefer to work on that need help as well.
16:40:32 <ganderson> lmacken: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Measure
16:46:35 <ganderson> GenJamGuy: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Measure
16:46:58 <ganderson> GenJamGuy: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/measure/repos/mainline
16:47:39 <ganderson> GenJamGuy: so -- $ git clone git://git.sugarlabs.org/measure/mainline.git Measure.activity
16:55:38 <lmacken> https://dev.laptop.org/query?status=assigned&status=new&component=measure-activity&order=priority&col=id&col=summary&col=owner&col=type&col=status&col=priority&col=milestone
16:55:44 <lmacken> http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/query?component=Measure&order=priority
17:01:11 <mchua> #info The Sugar Activity folks are in #sugar, for the record. We're logging there.
17:03:51 <ganderson> lmacken GenJamGuy skuhaneck: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1911
17:04:53 <mchua> lmacken: I advise hanging out in #sugar, since the maintainer - walterbender - is often there.
17:05:01 <mchua> lmacken: along with many other hackers who might be able to help.
17:07:54 <posse_projector> http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/RIT_Remix_Project
17:17:13 * gregdek blinks.
17:17:22 <mchua> gregdek: just woke up? ;)
17:17:29 <mchua> ctyler: when you're ready to swap, lemme know
17:17:34 <gregdek> POSSE alum Matt Jadud is on the front page of /. for his arduino work!
17:19:44 <posse_projector> mchua: anytime, or we don't have to swap -- I'm not providing any Secret Info here
17:21:03 <mchua> posse_projector: Let's go.
17:24:44 <quaid> jadudm++
17:30:29 <posse_projector> ctyler: Question for you - what IRC channel should we talk about remixes in?
17:30:30 <posse_projector> #fedora?
17:32:49 <quaid> #fedora-devel?
17:34:00 <ctyler> posse_projector: try #fedora, #fedora-devel, or look for someone on the B&R team
17:34:54 <ctyler> What's the URL for the activities taxonomy/status page?
17:35:21 <mchua> ctyler: ask in #sugar ;)
17:35:57 <ctyler> mchua: was asking my colleagues here :-)
17:36:31 <mchua> #info Remix folks; I'm going to start looking for people who know things about remixes in #fedora and #fedora-devel
17:36:42 <mchua> #info So if you want to follow, /join #fedora and /join #fedora-devel
17:37:03 <sdziallas> mchua: I'd recommend #fedora-devel, too.
17:37:24 <sdziallas> mchua: #fedora tends to be a little noisy and cluttered.
17:38:09 <mchua> ok, #fedora-devel it is.
17:38:14 <mchua> #info Never mind. Just #fedora-devel.
17:39:35 <mchua> To recap what I'm trying to do here... I'm trying to find the right place to talk with folks about remixes, so I asked which channel I should hang out in (and the answer was #fedora-devel).
17:39:54 <mchua> (I'm actually the only one working in IRC at the moment - the rest of the group is split in two, one group debating licensing, the other looking for packages.)
17:40:22 <mchua> In the meantime, I googled 'fedora remix' to see if I could find existing documentation and got https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Remix
17:40:56 <mchua> ...which has a link to a mailing list that's broken - in the https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Remix#How_do_I_find_out_more.3F section - so I'm fixing that...
17:41:32 <mchua> fixed, https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Remix&diff=180044&oldid=172521
17:44:30 * mchua looking at http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/spins/ to see what's been happening recently
17:44:53 <mchua> It looks pretty active, so if we have questions we'll ask there and hopefully get a reply by tomorrow.
17:44:56 <mchua> hopefully.
17:45:11 <mchua> but as to how to make a spin... I'm looking at the technical process for it
17:45:15 <mchua> so I found https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Remix#How_do_I_remix_Fedora.3F
17:45:23 <mchua> and am following that to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Fedora_Live_CD
17:46:51 * mchua is staring at this page right now going "uhhhhhhh"
17:47:18 <sdziallas> mchua: you can haz halp.
17:47:21 <mchua> I'm following those instructions, skipping the parts I don't understand, and asking questions when things break.
17:47:24 <mchua> Woo!
17:48:38 <mchua> ctyler: So, haz problem: I'm the only one on IRC right now, or in a space where anyone outside this room can overhear my conversation about this remix.
17:48:59 <mchua> ctyler: I am unsure how long I want to let this go on. ;)
17:49:44 <mchua> oh goody, there was a classroom session.
17:49:45 <mchua> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom/Creating_Fedora_Remix
17:50:19 <mchua> ooo, this tells me about the system-config-kickstart tool. Did I just install that?
17:50:32 <mchua> no! I will install it now.
17:50:44 <sdziallas> mchua: that tool is pretty decent, however, it doesn't work with live images.
17:50:56 <sdziallas> mchua: well, it does. you just need to do a lot more fiddling.
17:51:14 <sdziallas> mchua: though I might regret it, I'll probably recommend using revisor instead.
17:51:30 <sdziallas> mchua: (and to tell me to look into that web UI more, too)
17:52:05 <mchua> sdziallas: ctyler spent some time this morning giving me dire anti-revisor warnings, saying he'd been backed up by a chorus of complainants on-list when he asked about it himself some time ago.
17:52:36 <sdziallas> mchua: yes, that's right. (and I probably share these)
17:52:49 <mchua> sdziallas: on both the classroom log and the https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Fedora_Live_CD page, there's no indication of how one actually *makes* a kickstart file
17:53:10 <sdziallas> mchua: but the system-config-kickstart tool will IIRC only create reasonable kickstart files to throw at *anaconda* and not the livecd-creator.
17:53:16 <mchua> aside from system-config-kickstart.
17:53:17 * mchua nods.
17:53:22 <sdziallas> mchua: (I might be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure 'bout that.)
17:53:34 <mchua> ok, how do you make a kickstart, then?
17:53:36 <sdziallas> mchua: well, it's in a way not more than throwing a text file together, but I agree...
17:54:05 <sdziallas> mchua: the thing is that if you want a live image, you ultimately *have* to base it on something.
17:54:19 <sdziallas> mchua: because you don't want to rewrite hundreds of lines of %post code.
17:54:48 <mchua> sdziallas: ...no, no I don't.
17:54:52 <sdziallas> mchua: so you've got to look at the spin-kickstarts git repo and pick a file to base your remix on.
17:55:08 * mchua starts rewriting this documentation in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:How_to_create_and_use_a_Live_CD for the time being as we go along
17:55:22 <sdziallas> mchua: then you go like "oh, well, I want packages $foo $baz and $bar".
17:55:26 * mchua looks at the existing page and decides to just blow half of it away
17:55:32 <sdziallas> and so you create a text file that looks like this:
17:55:44 <sdziallas> %include fedora-whatever-file-you-are-basing-it-on.ks
17:55:49 <sdziallas> %packages
17:55:50 <sdziallas> foo
17:55:51 <sdziallas> baz
17:55:53 <sdziallas> bar
17:55:56 <sdziallas> %end
17:56:04 <sdziallas> that's all.
17:56:37 <sdziallas> mchua: (alright, I'm skipping large parts of the things that make it actually interesting, but that's how I'd probably start if I just wanted to add an app or two to a Fedora Spin)
17:57:19 <mchua> sdziallas: how do you pick a .ks to base yours on?
17:57:47 <sdziallas> mchua: you go: "oh, gnome? cool, I like gnome! I want 'gnome + $foo $baz and $bar'."
17:58:08 <sdziallas> mchua: seriously speaking: the kickstart files are the ones used for composing the spins.
17:58:13 <sdziallas> mchua: so you want to look at...
17:58:24 <sdziallas> #link http://spins.fedoraproject.org
17:59:02 <mchua> sdziallas: but then you go "oh wait, I have run out of space!"
17:59:36 <sdziallas> mchua: on your harddisk? well, heh. that's why the customization guide for SoaS goes like: "WARNING!!!!!!!" :)
17:59:45 <sdziallas> (okay, not actually. but we've got a warning sign there.)
18:01:30 * mchua overhears RIT crew discussing RSI-break software in the room, and whether to include it on their list
18:01:34 <mchua> (I said "YES")
18:02:22 <sdziallas> :)
18:03:10 <mchua> sdziallas: I meant the .iso being huge
18:03:33 * mchua stubbing in an outline of steps on the talk page.
18:04:01 <sdziallas> mchua: Well, that's the point when you go -$baz again. But... yeah. Shoot more stuff at me, if needed. :)
18:06:12 <mchua> sdziallas: does https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:How_to_create_and_use_a_Live_CD#Instructions sound like the steps you'd go through?
18:06:20 <mchua> sdziallas: uh, ignore the content, look at the headers only
18:07:10 <sdziallas> mchua: let see have a look
18:07:35 <sdziallas> mchua: mhm.
18:07:39 <sdziallas> yes and no. :)
18:08:16 <mchua> sdziallas: ok, what needs fixing?
18:08:19 <mchua> sdziallas: would this be faster in etherpad?
18:08:30 <sdziallas> mchua: yes!
18:10:26 <sdziallas> mchua: http://piratepad.net/kickstart-files-and-other-fun
18:10:54 <mchua> sdziallas: piratepad is stalling for me, http://typewith.me/remix-documentation ?
18:11:12 <sdziallas> mchua: okeydokey.
18:14:44 <mchua> afmondra: Ok, we're also trying to groupinstall the FEL packageset, but can't find the right groupname.
18:14:48 * mchua googles
18:15:13 <sdziallas> mchua: yum grouplist
18:15:18 <mchua> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/fedora-core-installing-package-groups-with-yum.html
18:15:21 <mchua> sdziallas: dammit, you're faster
18:15:27 <sdziallas> yes I am. :)
18:15:56 <mchua> afmondra: looking at the output of that command, you want to "yum groupinstall 'Electronic Lab'" (no quotes)
18:15:59 <mchua> (er, as root)
18:17:23 <mchua> ah, we found out why
18:17:27 <mchua> afmondra is running RHEL
18:17:32 <mchua> so we have to add the fedora repos
18:18:55 <sdziallas> mchua: uh?
18:20:21 <sdziallas> mchua: I don't think you'd want to add Fedora repos (except for EPEL ones) to RHEL.
18:21:21 <mchua> sdziallas: I'm a little wary of this, but... it's an experimental box, so what the hey.
18:21:39 <sdziallas> mchua: wait, seriously?
18:22:06 <sdziallas> mchua: I assume this is RHEL5? Compatible packages would be in Fedora 6 then or something. I... wouldn't recommend that.
18:22:59 <mchua> sdziallas: Yeah, it's RHEL5, FEL didn't exist back then iirc, er...
18:23:07 <mchua> I do sort of expect this to break *something.*
18:23:15 <mchua> I'm mostly curious what it will break.
18:23:27 <mchua> and afmondra wants to give it a shot.
18:23:29 <mchua> so!
18:23:33 <Jeff_S> lol
18:23:36 <mchua> afmondra: http://ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de/pub/Mirrors/rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/releases/13/Everything/i386/os/
18:23:47 * mchua may be doing EVVVVERYTHING wrong!
18:23:56 <Jeff_S> mchua: F13 repo will not work at all on RHEL
18:23:59 <Jeff_S> RHEL 5
18:24:06 <sdziallas> Jeff_S: my point exactly.
18:24:14 <Jeff_S> :)
18:24:17 <mchua> It won't even let you install packages (and thereby break stuff)?
18:24:19 <sdziallas> mchua: it *might*, but it's really not something you should try.
18:24:32 <sdziallas> mchua: it'll probably have hilarious dependency chain breakages.
18:24:43 <Jeff_S> mchua: I don't think  you'll even be able to get that far as to break stuff, but if you feel like destroying a box, have at it
18:25:38 <mchua> afmondra: We could also yank the iso onto a liveusb and you could play with that.
18:26:19 <sdziallas> mchua: the thing is: you don't need the packages *installed* to put them on a newly composed remix.
18:26:38 <sdziallas> mchua: the remaining problem is that livecd-creator will presumably not run on RHEL5.
18:26:52 <sdziallas> (because that's two releases before the actual remix idea got spread, IIRC.)
18:28:52 <mchua> sdziallas: afmondra isn't trying to make a live image, he's trying to install FEL from packages, but this... yeah. I didn't expect it to work.
18:29:00 * mchua figured it would be fun to try anyway
18:29:13 <mchua> (but we gave up after dire warnings from you and Jeff_S and he's just grabbing the iso and putting it on liveusb now)
18:29:15 <sdziallas> mchua: well, wait. let me check EPEL for ya.
18:29:22 <sdziallas> mchua: ah, okay :)
18:29:23 <Jeff_S> lol, glad I am scary enough for you
18:29:38 <sdziallas> Jeff_S: I bet they'd have gone for it if you hadn't appeared.
18:29:41 <sdziallas> Jeff_S: :)
18:29:47 <mchua> oh, we did go for it.
18:29:59 <mchua> and then RHEL 5 went "lolwut?" and we went "eh, fine"
18:30:01 <mchua> *download*
18:30:08 <mchua> "meh, 25 hours until download completion"
18:30:11 <Jeff_S> hah
18:30:16 <sdziallas> mchua: it'd presumably worked on RHEL6, btw.
18:30:24 <sdziallas> (and there's a "have" missing there)
18:30:32 <mchua> sdziallas: but we don't have RHEL6, so moot point
18:30:51 <mchua> sdziallas: I'm heading back to etherpad
18:30:56 <sdziallas> mchua: but if you had it...
18:30:58 <sdziallas> mchua: yup.
18:33:46 <mchua> #note afmondra may be interested in taking on FEL leadership with a few students, if he likes what he tries out
18:33:50 <mchua> quaid: ^^^^
18:33:53 <mchua> spevack: ^^^^
18:34:11 <mchua> since I know chitlesh is no longer about, and that FEL is one of the spins that is supercool and would be great to have taken care of.
18:41:06 <quaid> nice
18:50:06 <mchua> quaid: if you have any ideas on how to follow up on that interest - he's talking about installing it on all the (quad-core!) lab machines (in a VM) - that'd be teh awesum
18:50:13 * mchua will fly blindly otherwise trying to make that connection
18:50:35 <ctyler> mchua: I think I'm going to introduce the deliverables for tonight and ask each group to set a goal for overnight
18:51:09 <sdziallas> ctyler: alright, you're right. player.py belongs to maze.
18:51:19 <mchua> ctyler: go for it
18:51:28 * sdziallas goes looking at the built package
18:51:39 <mchua> ctyler: the spins group is broken into 3 parts: me, package-hunters, and legal-discussion
18:53:23 <mchua> #info Tomorrow lunch == FOSSbox
18:53:37 <mchua> #info Friday 30m talk from Steve on FOSS@RIT
18:55:34 <mchua> Chris is about to pause us all and call deliverables, so teams can set their milestones.
19:01:45 <mchua> #info RIT Spin group is (except for Mel) updating http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/RIT_Remix_Project with specs/packagelist/bookmark links
19:02:09 <mchua> #info Mel is (for the RIT spin group) continuing documentation revision work in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:How_to_create_and_use_a_Live_CD#Build_the_image (to be merged with main page soon)
19:26:49 <mchua> sdziallas: do you have to download the .ks file you're basing your remix on, or just include its name?
19:27:11 <mchua> sdziallas: (iow, I don't have to say "git clone <blah blah>.ks"?)
19:27:15 <sdziallas> mchua: yup, it has to be in the same directory.
19:27:30 <sdziallas> mchua: http://ftp.snt.utwente.nl/pub/software/sugarlabs/soas/docs/customization-guide/sect-Creation_Kit-Preparation-Getting_Started.html
19:27:33 <sdziallas> mchua: etherpad?
19:28:34 <mchua> sdziallas: yeah, etherpad
22:55:34 <cras> Hello All.
22:56:32 <cras> My name is  wale soyinka. And I was directed here by ctyler
23:04:20 <ctyler> quaid: ping - Wale is an author of some material that may be complimentary to the TOS Text ^
23:08:40 <ctyler> cras -- there's also http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/TeachingOpenSource_Mailing_List
00:45:00 <quaid> hello
00:45:33 <quaid> yes, mailing list is probably the best place for wider attention and understanding
00:45:53 <quaid> cras: can you tell me about it?
02:27:05 <mchua> hullo, cras -I'm curious what material quaid is referring to.
02:31:52 * mchua thinks about blog backlog she has to write
02:47:24 <mchua> #endmeeting