teachingopensource
MINUTES
01:05:55 <mchua> #startmeeting
01:05:55 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jun  8 01:05:55 2010 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
01:05:55 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
01:07:19 <mchua> I love this little logging bot.
01:07:23 <mchua> I'll have to explain it at some point tomorrow.
01:19:07 <gpollice> mchua: How about going over ways of filtering and organizing the information from IRC.
01:22:24 <mchua> gpollice: Absolutely. I'll stick it on a section for tomorrow.
01:22:26 * mchua heads to the wiki
01:23:48 <mchua> http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_Worcester_State#Topics_2
01:23:55 <mchua> It's a stub - I'll fill it in post-nap
01:26:02 <gpollice> Thanks.
02:08:13 <pfroehlich> back after some hard eating and drinking :-D
02:44:24 <mutewit> pfroehlich: Someone seems to have gotten the hang of IRC pretty quickly.
02:50:21 <pfroehlich> mutewit: huh? :-D had to do it once before for online gaming :-D
03:13:46 <pfroehlich> off to try boot the usb stick...
11:38:54 <sdziallas> uh? http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/teachingopensource.org
11:39:02 <sdziallas> ctyler: ^^
11:39:08 <sdziallas> (it's down for me, too)
11:39:33 <pfroehlich> good morning
11:41:06 <pfroehlich> so i managed to crash Physics yesterday night, how do I get to see Python exceptions and stuff in Sugar?
11:41:35 <sdziallas> pfroehlich: good morning!
11:41:50 <sdziallas> there's an activity called Log - which should... uh, show the logs :)
11:42:26 <pfroehlich> oh, all I could see in the log was "Physics" but I couldn't see a way to actually find some text attached to that from the running/crashing application
11:43:26 <pfroehlich> i guess if I could run the activity outside of sugar I could use my regular Python skills :-D
11:43:47 <sdziallas> well... there... should be *something* in the logs, especially when it crashed.
11:43:58 <pfroehlich> okay i'll try again later
11:44:08 <pfroehlich> just saw that I have to get breakfast now or be late for class
11:44:14 <pfroehlich> so see ya in a few
11:44:24 <sdziallas> there's also a lot of stuff in ~/.sugar/default/logs
11:44:36 <sdziallas> oh, okay! :) well, enjoy breakfast!
11:44:38 * sdziallas waves
12:25:06 <mchua> Excellent, we're here a little early this time.
12:46:45 * kwurst waves
12:50:02 <pfroehlich> wow pidgin is crap
12:50:35 <pfroehlich> anyone here?
12:50:58 <walterbender> pfroehlich: I use chatzilla (a firefox plugin)
12:51:09 <pfroehlich> yeah that would require running firefox :-D
12:51:19 <pfroehlich> and now i am here twice? what the heck?
12:51:50 <pfroehlich1> ah
12:53:36 <pfroehlich> lol for some reason pidgin took so long to start up, i had installed xchat already :-D
13:01:50 <pfroehlich> hmmm  qemu  boots sugar way different than my actual machine
13:10:18 <mchua> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_Worcester_State#Tuesday
13:10:29 <mchua> for our game plan for today. Right now Walter is doing a guided tour of Abacus hacking.
13:10:49 <mchua> I'll be asking individuals in the background about how it's going, and about yesterday's deliverables.
13:30:29 <pfroehlich> git git git :-D
13:37:40 <mchua> Everyone is working on their first git checkouts and patches and pushes up to the Abacus activity.
13:37:44 <mchua> (I think. ;)
13:37:45 <mchua> How are folks doing?
13:38:09 <mchua> Peter is fixing infrastructure for the people who are having trouble getting Fedora going.
13:38:19 <mchua> I am trying to clean up SoaS stuff in the background.
13:38:23 <mchua> Also I will be ordering pizza soon.
13:51:43 <kwurst> mchua: I'm doing OK, now that I've got the POSSE Education Live CD installed as a virtual machine.
13:52:11 <kwurst> mchua: It was unclear to me what environment I was supposed to be working in for the git exercise.
13:52:38 <mchua> Excellent. :) I'm hoping everyone else is also doing ok, but we'll find out at lunch, I suppose.
13:52:45 * mchua knows we're moving fast and wants to make sure everyone is all right
13:52:57 * mchua also wants folks to get in the habit of asking questions and making commentary in backchannel
14:08:04 <mchua> Welcome back to the channel, Mahadev - doing all right?
14:08:08 * mchua realizes we're moving pretty fast.
14:11:08 <maddoghall> mchua: What time would lunch be tomorrow?
14:11:22 <mchua> maddoghall: We usually get hungry at noon. :)
14:11:51 <mchua> (a lot of in-person classroom activity happening right now - I'll try to do a better job of livetranscribing, but it's basically an intro to git and python via guided hacking on the Abacus activity.)
14:12:05 <maddoghall> mchua: I will try to be there at noon, but if I am not, feel free to start eating without me
14:12:19 <mchua> maddoghall: Will do. Any food preferences/dietary restrictions?
14:12:26 <mchua> We don't know what we're doing for lunch tomorrow yet.
14:12:33 * mchua is reminded to go order pizza for today, actually.
14:13:51 <maddoghall> mchua:  No asparagus or boiled beets.....and I am not particularly fond of Sushi..anything else goes
14:15:45 <mchua> maddoghall: Noted!
14:17:03 <maddoghall> mchua: I do like "spicy"....Indian is fine
14:17:39 <maddoghall> mchua: Mexican also goes well
14:22:24 <mchua> kwurst: I'm going to order pizza - can I have your phone number (since I can't hear mine) so they have someone to ask? I figure I'll put today's lunch on the Red Hat account since we went so far under budget Sunday night. ;)
14:27:52 <mchua> kwurst: actually, would you mind making the call (I'll give you my credit card and the order)? I can't hear well enough to talk on the phone, and the relay service that I use is down.
14:28:00 * mchua is hearing-impaired, for the record
14:34:13 <pfroehlich> where the heck is the documentation for the connect method in PyGTK?
14:35:54 <mchua> walterbender: This may be a good time to introduce people to the #sugar channel.
14:37:32 <mchua> pfroehlich: is http://pygstdocs.berlios.de/pygobject-reference/class-gobject.html#method-gobject--connect what you were looking for?
14:41:57 <mchua> How's the hacking going? kris_striegnitz, gpollice, Mahadev, aparna_, mihaela, pfroehlich, kwurst - diamond- is pairing with kwurst, it looks like? :)
14:42:10 <mchua> (if everything is fine, ignore this - just wanted to make sure folks are getting the help they need to hack...)
14:59:39 <pfroehlich> get colored diffs out of git diff: git config --global color.ui true
15:03:39 <walterbender> coffee run anyone?
15:04:02 <rindolf> walterbender: what?
15:04:09 <rindolf> Hi all, BTW.
15:04:09 * mchua is tempted. Actually, I need someone to make a phone call for me - must order pizza.
15:04:13 * mchua can't make phone calls, is deaf
15:04:16 <mchua> rindolf: Hullo!
15:04:28 <rindolf> mchua: hi, hi.
15:04:46 <rindolf> mchua: isn't it possible to order Pizza using a web interface?
15:04:58 <mchua> rindolf: Not the stuff we want from the place we want.
15:05:15 <rindolf> mchua: I know a different programmer who's deaf - http://www.zak.co.il/
15:05:30 <rindolf> mchua: ah.
15:05:39 <rindolf> Sucks.
15:06:11 <rindolf> Pizza++.
15:07:01 <mchua> kis: http://piratepad.net/posse-worcester-pizza
15:19:44 <pfroehlich> is there a simple way to cat a text file into the clipboard to paste into gmail?
15:21:51 <pfroehlich> found it, it's called xclip :-D
15:23:48 <pfroehlich> never mind, xclip and the clipboard for gnome don't interact
15:23:49 <pfroehlich> sigh
15:23:59 <pfroehlich> so i still can't paste my patch into gmaol
15:24:00 <pfroehlich> gmail
15:27:38 <maddoghall> Note the daily pizza specials: http://www.muncheezpizzeria.com/zgrid/themes/791/pages/specials.jsp
15:32:13 <pfroehlich> btw i figured out how to get my file into the gnome clipboard, i used gvim :-D
15:56:49 <pfroehlich> oh so hungry
16:07:59 <pfroehlich> ok, let's eat? :-D
16:08:13 <pfroehlich> who picked up the tab? round of applause? :-D
16:09:55 <walterbender> thanks mchua and RH... enjoy the Mac and Cheese pizza :p
16:10:16 <pfroehlich> yay mel, thanks! :-D
16:10:28 * pfroehlich applauds
16:13:16 <gpollice> Thanks Mel.
16:13:28 <gpollice> So SoaS works fine within VirtualBox.
16:13:43 <rindolf> gpollice: what is SoaS?
16:13:56 <sdziallas> rindolf: Sugar on a Stick :)
16:13:56 <gpollice> rindolf: Sugar on a Stick.
16:14:02 <rindolf> Ah.
16:14:13 <sdziallas> gpollice: sorry ;)
16:14:26 <gpollice> np
16:31:04 <Guest59361> hello
16:31:39 <rindolf> Hi Guest59361
16:35:44 <sdziallas> walterbender: we're going to have a lunch convo today, right? :)
16:36:25 <walterbender> sdziallas: I don't think I can handle yet another thread... let's wait until the marketing meeting is over?
16:36:54 <sdziallas> walterbender: yup yup, sure. I wouldn't mind Skype, anyway. yeah, let's take it one at a time. :)
16:42:52 <pfroehlich> i think I'd like to work on Physics for the project, anyone else interested in that?
16:44:19 <walterbender> pfroehlich: I'll kibbitz
16:44:52 <walterbender> pfroehlich: see http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activity_Team/Modifing_an_Activity
16:46:03 <mchua> walterbender, pbrobinson: after this conversation wraps up - and I'd like to set a hard stop at 1pm because we need to make sure everyone here is continuing to learn to hack on Sugar - we should get together and figure out where we are and where to go next.
17:03:32 <pfroehlich> mchua: did you figure out where to go next? :-D
17:03:51 <mchua> pfroehlich: yeah, we should do that. :)
17:12:40 <kevix> pink bunnies for linux: http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2010/06/04/fluffy/
17:13:19 <pfroehlich> well looks like the physics hacking is not so straightforward :-/
17:13:24 <mikey_w> Hi kevix
17:26:01 <walterbender> maybe we should look a bit more closely at the Sugar-specific aspects... the abacus example was really wholly divorced from Sugar
17:36:26 <Guest59361> is this working?
17:36:53 <walterbender> diamond-: is what working?
17:37:18 <diamond-> name-brain discontinuity
17:40:49 <pfroehlich> use git format-patch to produce patches feel free to ask if interested
18:32:55 <mchua> Sorry about the radio silence here today, all ye who are listening in remotely - folks were cutting their teeth on Abacus, and now we've collectively decided to take the Measure Activity and try to get it through the Activity Criteria.
18:33:11 <mchua> so we have everyone working on the code - led by walterbender - but each person also has a secondary task, in small groups
18:33:24 <mchua> two folks working on packaging, a few on translation, some docs, some pedagogy, some testing, etc.
18:38:50 <pfroehlich> actually I am having some trouble getting an account on translate.sugarlabs.org done, I am not getting an email and it's not letting me in either :-/
18:41:51 <pfroehlich> if anyone can help with the translate account, I tried to register "phf" with "peter.hans.froehlich@gmail.com" so maybe you can check where that ended up in the user database
18:42:05 <pfroehlich> i'll be in sugar for a while
18:47:28 <mchua> ...or visualmatch, if we can't get measure to work.
18:49:41 <mchua> #info Homework tonight: take your 2nd project (packaging, pedagogy, translation, etc) and spend 10-20 minutes googling and searching for what resources you can find so far, and blog about what you've come across.
18:49:49 <mchua> #info Further readings will be sent to list.
18:52:13 <mchua> ...now! /me writes that email
19:01:55 <pfroehlich> still no email from translate.sugarlabs.org :-/
19:05:14 <mchua> :(
19:27:33 * mchua --> home
21:31:56 <pfroehlich> finally back :-D
22:12:43 <pfroehlich> wow, broken crap like SHMConfig will make me install Windows one of these days...
22:12:59 <mihaela> welcome back!
22:13:05 <pfroehlich> thanks :-d
22:13:09 <pfroehlich> i mean :-D
22:13:25 <pfroehlich> i've been trying for months to swithc this silly touchpad off
22:13:37 <pfroehlich> sig
22:13:40 <pfroehlich> h
22:14:03 <pfroehlich> mihaela: busy translating? :-D
22:14:04 <mihaela> one more hour and its dinner time
22:14:16 <mihaela> havent started translating
22:14:43 <mihaela> fedora crashed just before we left and lost everything we did in class today
22:15:28 <mihaela> i just checked out walter's last commit (with icons for decimal abacus)
22:15:56 <pfroehlich> oh noes, that's terrible
22:16:06 <pfroehlich> i guess something is to be said for not working with a live cd
22:16:20 <pfroehlich> although I have all kinds of trouble too since I use debian
22:16:41 <mihaela> hah
22:19:10 <kwurst> Well, I've got the SoaS finally installed on a virtual machine, so I don't have to run off a liveusb
22:20:29 <mihaela> pfroehlich: oh, you 'factored out' in that tiny loop menu generation...
22:24:11 <pfroehlich> kwurst: lucky you :-D
22:24:25 <pfroehlich> mihaela: yep, seemed like a good idea at the time :-D
22:24:36 <pfroehlich> mihaela: I hate duplicated code...
22:25:03 * pfroehlich waves at walterbender
22:25:25 <mihaela> pfroehlich: same here, but it was a good help for somebody like me, with no python knowledge whatsoever, to 'mimic' python programming
22:26:14 <pfroehlich> mihaela: no offense to walter, but I think there's a lot more that could be refactored ;-D
22:26:45 <walterbender> pfroehlich: please... go for it!!
22:26:52 <pfroehlich> for example the problem with the menu stuff is a cyclical dependency in the design itself, much harder to fix
22:27:06 <pfroehlich> i mean a problem not the problem
22:28:05 <mihaela> pfroehlich: where do i start with doing translation for visualmatch?
22:32:20 <pfroehlich> mihaela: huh? what is visualmatch?
22:32:34 <pfroehlich> mihaela: did you register an account on translate.sugarlabs.org?
22:34:03 <mihaela> pfroehlich: no, didnt
22:34:35 <mihaela> pfroehlich: visualmatch is the other activity which we might do if measure is too screwed up
22:36:52 <pfroehlich> mihaela: oh, i must have missed that visualmatch thing, I better look at it
22:37:44 <pfroehlich> mihaela: i made an account on the translate site; the measure project is inside the honey project if you're looking for it; it's pretty straightforward to submit translations, although I don't know who decides which translations get into the final version
22:38:18 <mihaela> pfroehlich: thanks!
22:46:09 <walterbender> mihaela: there is a language coordinator who commits the translations... much like git
22:59:18 <pfroehlich> sigh disconnect connect disconnect not the most stable internet at the hampton inn
22:59:24 <pfroehlich> where are we meeting tonight?
22:59:30 <pfroehlich> HUNGRY! :-D
22:59:57 <mihaela> pfroehlich: out of the door
23:00:11 <pfroehlich> oh you're coming over here again then? cool
23:00:17 <pfroehlich> i'll try not to miss you tongiht :-D
23:00:31 <kwurst> Enjoy, guys!
23:06:01 <pfroehlich> lol
01:44:23 * mchua peeks in
01:52:31 <pfroehlich> ah, hard eating and drinking with my buddies, what could be better ? :-D
01:52:49 <pfroehlich> now I am slightly toasted but I'll try to commit something anyway
01:56:47 <walterbender> pfroehlich, mchua: I have measure working on a Classmate just fine (from SoaS v3). Not sure what the problem was this afternoon, but I will continue looking.
01:57:01 <walterbender> pfroehlich: do you know much about gst?
01:58:35 <mchua> walterbender: that's odd - maybe it's a fedora version compatibility thing? I'll see if I can test it real quick on my f13 machine here.
01:58:39 <mchua> (soas v3 == f13-based)
01:59:26 <walterbender> mchua: it is definitely related to the gst conversion... a weird parsing error
02:04:03 <walterbender> mchua: wasn't it f13 that you gave people on their USBs?
02:04:46 <mchua> walterbender: Yeah, which is why i'm confused.
02:04:51 <kevix> is v3 = mirabelle?
02:05:16 <mchua> kevix: Yes.
02:05:29 <mchua> kevix: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Mirabelle
02:06:38 <walterbender> v3 == mirabelle
02:07:07 <walterbender> which is what I have been testing measure on successfully here, but not in Worcester :(
02:14:18 <mihaela> kis: left your cellphone in the lab. i have it.
02:16:36 <pfroehlich> walterbender: sorry, i don't even know what gst is? gstreamer or something? never touched it :-/
02:16:56 <walterbender> pfroehlich: yes. gstreamer
02:17:32 <walterbender> pfroehlich: tomorrow, I think I'll be hitting my head against a wall with Measure. I am too tired to make much progress on it tonight.
02:25:14 <mchua> walterbender: measure failed to start for me, running sugar-emulator in f13 and downloading the latest version from aslo from within the Browse Activity.
02:25:18 <mchua> for reference.
02:25:37 <walterbender> mchua: try pulling the latest from git
02:25:50 * mchua looks
03:18:17 * mchua found a nice tutorial for how to install Activities via git
03:18:19 <mchua> #link http://vimeo.com/5093894
03:18:48 <mchua> #info That's a nice screencast on how to install/test an Activity's latest version by grabbing the source from git.
03:20:25 <kevix> oh. never tried from git. just made a script to scrape from aslo
03:20:48 <mchua> walterbender: pulled latest from git (mainline), same error
03:21:03 <walterbender> mchua: what is the error?
03:21:37 <mchua> walterbender: Measure failed to start. (with the flashing icon, on the Activity start-screen, with a working "Stop" button below it).
03:21:40 * mchua looks at logs
03:22:35 <mchua> I've got a traceback, pastebinning....
03:23:21 <mchua> walterbender: http://fpaste.org/iJVS/
03:23:45 * mchua peeks in source to find that line
03:24:24 <mchua> walterbender: Oh, I think it is complaining about the omega character.
03:25:04 <walterbender> mchua: I guess I forgot to push the change for that bug... just a sec
03:25:33 <mchua> np, will be up for a bit longer.
03:29:25 <walterbender> mchua: pull again
03:30:02 * mchua pulls
03:31:05 <mchua> walterbender: mainline? hasn't synced yet, I don't see the changes show up in the repo
03:31:22 <mchua> walterbender: also, http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/measure/repos/mainline lists http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/measure/repos/mainline/commits/963cf62ac7478c4238bc2e02c0b60c4ea34b9dc2 as the last commit... I'll wait a bit
03:32:30 <walterbender> should be there now
03:54:11 * mchua just saw the pull, w00t
03:54:12 <mchua> testing
03:56:00 <mchua> walterbender: It runs - it's hard to tell whether it's displaying the right data, but it runs. Thanks!
03:56:23 <mchua> For reference, the commit was http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/measure/repos/mainline/commits/840ba0d64faebf9415bcde629cf939687c0921b2 (I'll send this to the list as an example of how we work out problems on IRC in a moment).
11:06:31 <pfroehlich> wow i fell asleep
11:06:33 <pfroehlich> :-D
11:06:41 <pfroehlich> morning!!!
11:28:40 <pfroehlich> walterbender: i did a decent amount of translation for both Measure and Visual Match
11:29:02 <pfroehlich> walterbender: there's a recurring problem with spelling in the English original being inconsistent leading to duplicate translations
11:29:20 <pfroehlich> walterbender: should I just edit the source to remove the English duplicates?
11:30:14 <walterbender> pfroehlich: better to file a bug report as the changes will have to be applied to the source code from whence the POT file is generated.
11:30:31 <walterbender> http://bugs.sugarlabs.org
11:31:26 <pfroehlich> walterbender: producing a patch and writing a bug report would take about the same time :-D
11:31:35 <pfroehlich> walterbender: but I have not done the bug report yet, so I see you point :-D
11:31:43 <mihaela> pfroehlich: what do i do about translating something like: percent blah percent?
11:31:54 <walterbender> pfroehlich: you could include the patch in the bug report... even better.
11:32:02 <pfroehlich> mihaela: good morning
11:32:09 <pfroehlich> walterbender: okies
11:32:15 <walterbender> mihaela: ouch. that is really ugly.
11:32:44 <walterbender> mihaela: I hope that string wasn't in VisualMatch or I will be very embarrassed :)
11:33:13 <mihaela> pfroehlich, walter: percent means the percent symbol (am i allowed to use it in irc?)
11:34:20 <walterbender> irc should support utf-8, so any character/symbol will work
11:35:30 <mihaela> pfroehlich, walter: got it (chatzilla popped a menu that %+<char> is ..., but I missed the <char>)
11:36:16 <mihaela> pfroehlich, walter: off to breakfast with kristina and peter. see you soon.
11:58:40 <kwurst> #sugar
12:36:08 <mchua> #endmeeting