<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:03:13
!startmeeting fedora-server
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
17:03:14
Meeting started at 2026-07-29 17:03:13 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
17:03:14
The Meeting name is 'fedora-server '
<@goroboro:matrix.org>
17:03:26
!hi
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:03:28
Sorry, 3 mins late today.
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:03:32
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:03:32
Ro: Rowan Puttergill (goroboro) - he / him / his
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:03:37
!hello
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:03:40
Emmanuel Seyman: Emmanuel Seyman (eseyman) - he / him / his
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:03:53
!topic Roll Call
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:04:02
!group members server-wg
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:04:05
Members of server-wg: Alexander Bokovoy, Adam Williamson, Paul Maconi, Emmanuel Seyman, jwhimpel, Kevin Fenzi, korora (@korora:fedora.im, @korora1981:matrix.org), mowest, ngompa (@conan_kudo:matrix.org, @ngompa:fedora.im, @pharaoh_atem:opensuse.org, @ngompa:kde.org, @ngompa:almalinux.im), Peter Boy, Stephen Gallagher
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:04:49
As usual, let's wait a moment for everybody to show up.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:05:08
And sorry for sending the draft agenda so late.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:05:27
Everything went wrong and late today, grrrrrrrrrhhhhh
<@goroboro:matrix.org>
17:05:43
I know those kind of days...
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:05:55
Same. I know the feeling...
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:05:56
I feel that, it's been kind of chaotic lately
<@korora:fedora.im>
17:06:10
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:06:12
Jocelyn Gould (UTC-4): Jocelyn Gould (korora) - she / her / hers
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:06:52
at least the bot didn't break on you
<@niknikovsky:fedora.im>
17:06:58
watch this age horribly
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:07:07
the bot didn't hello me either
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:07:08
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:07:11
Brett: Brett Weir (brettweir) - he / him / his
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:07:13
!hi
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:07:40
Well, welcome everybody. I guess, we can start.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:07:51
!topic Agenda
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:08:01
!info Open Floor
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:08:01
!info Follow-up actions & announcements
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:08:01
!info F45 release testing (rawhide)
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:08:01
!info Project Ansible support
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:08:01
!info Fedora home server spin-off: Kiwi development environment
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:08:29
A bit late today. Whatever, additions / deletions?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:08:50
!topic 1. Follow-up actions & announcements
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:09:00
Regarding the action, see the list in our
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:09:00
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/server-working-group/wg-minutes-2026/
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:09:00
meetings overview:
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:09:18
Current status:
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:09:19
!action ONGOING John Himpel and Jocelyn Gould check for NFS connection issue from F44 to F45
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:09:19
!action ONGOING eseyman writes an Ansible playbook that applies the official post-installation tasks.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:09:19
!action ONGOING Brett will set up a Kiwi dev environment and document the process so that others can follow suit.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:09:19
!action ONGOING MatH will compose the existing ideas and proposals into a TOC proposal, perhaps already for next meeting
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:09:19
!action ONGOING Conan Kudo will fix Kiwi to set the right partition type of Linux LVM for the system partition on KVM guest and arm image.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:09:19
!action ONGOING pboy will implement the Fedocal workarount for providing meeting location address
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:09:31
Did I forget something?
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:09:42
That sounds about right
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:09:59
Fine. Announcements
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:10:06
Announcements:
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:10:23
Our vorting about new members is running until Friday.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:11:09
Curent status: (looking) 7+ / 0 / 0-
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:11:37
We have 9 members, so the result is clear.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:12:12
Nevertheless, we have to wait until Friday according to Fedora governance.
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:12:35
🙂
<@goroboro:matrix.org>
17:12:38
That's cool...
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:13:08
Has someone something to announce?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:13:30
Obviously not, proceeding ....
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:13:38
!topic 2. F45 release testing (rawhide)
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:13:51
Tracking issue: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/server/tickets/issues/203
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:14:04
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:14:04
We are still lacking behind here.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:14:17
NMot completely behind Thanks to Ro.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:14:34
Default boot and install (x86_64) is still quite empty thjankfully to Ro not completely empty:
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:14:34
https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/testcase_stats/45/#:~:text=Default%20boot%20and%20install%20(x86_64)
<@goroboro:matrix.org>
17:14:49
ha... just a little bit of testing... some of it quite full on to test... daunting
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:15:12
I'll see what I can do during my upcoming vacation
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:15:49
On Monday, a new test release came out. Not processed yet. I expect a new build release tomorrow. We’ve been on a three-day cycle recently.
<@goroboro:matrix.org>
17:16:02
I need to sort out some hardware though... I have a machine that I can use but I just need to find time to migrate the stuff running on it into my Proxmox lab.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:16:36
And, I noticed: my desciption points to the wrong row! It is "USB" BIOS/UEFI, NOT "CD/DVD" BIOS/UEFI
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:16:36
I'll fix that tomorrow.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:17:06
Yeah, that too often the hard part
<@korora:fedora.im>
17:17:44
I’ve not been in a position to do much of anything. My health has been tanking of late
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:18:36
Jocelyn Gould (UTC-4): well, we are now (or soon) 11 members, we should be able to cover you 😏
<@korora:fedora.im>
17:19:30
I’m going to try to do stuff with vms once we branch to 45.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:19:39
It occurred to me today that we haven’t yet gone through and assessed the list of changes.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:20:00
Emmanuel Seyman: You did that the last releases.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:20:13
Can you do it again?
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:21:13
I can probably do it, yes
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:21:28
FTR, the list of Changes for F45 is https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/45/ChangeSet
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:21:35
OK
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:21:49
!action eseyman is examining the list of changes to identify any potential issues for Server Edition.
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:22:18
Is there anyone who can walk me through one of these test scripts?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:22:45
You mean the openQA scripts?
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:22:45
I've been wanting to contribute, and I probably have the resources, but my anxiety is stopping me from executing something unfamiliar.
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:23:03
Whatever is means to say "test Fedora"
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:23:22
Normally, I'd sit quietly and hope no one notices me but I want to speak up when I'm uncomfortable.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:23:46
Good idea!!!
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:24:17
It's hard to explain, it's harder for me to follow unfamiliar instructions than it is to come up with something myself, but I don't want to disappear in this test cycle.
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:25:00
Whatever it means to say "test Fedora"
<@goroboro:matrix.org>
17:25:22
So the testing I have been doing has been manual - I have literally stepped through the doc related to the the ticket and made sure that everything works as described. It is painful and slow, but it has gotten easier because I know what I need to do for the test tickets I have picked up.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:26:31
We have a QA SIG. adamw is running it. Maybe you should contact him. We used to meet on Mondays, but we didn't for some time.
<@goroboro:matrix.org>
17:26:43
I think all automated tests are the openQA tests that @pboy mentioned... and afaik we don't need to get involved in that unless we want to help with automation on that side
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:27:18
Quality meetings are alternate mondays
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:27:31
there was one on the 20th, there will be one on aug 3rd
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:27:33
One of our long standing issues / projects is to add some tests regarding our supported services.
<@goroboro:matrix.org>
17:27:55
hmmm that could be fun
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:28:01
I'm much more useful for automating things than running test scripts myself
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:28:10
i'm always available to talk about the existing test automation
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:28:24
Oh, did I miss the invitations? Or is a change there?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:28:46
i'm still sending the announcements out the way i always have I think? to test-announce@ and discussion 'quality' tag
<@korora:fedora.im>
17:28:53
I think it changes depending on where we are in the release cycle
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:29:21
I'll check my mails ...
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:29:21
no, qa meetings are always every second monday
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:29:26
the one that changes is blocker review meetings
<@korora:fedora.im>
17:29:34
I just know that my cats like to Interrupt meetings.
<@korora:fedora.im>
17:29:44
This is what I’m thinking of!
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:30:22
for test automation, we currently have lots of installer tests, and tests of freeipa, active directory (samba-backed), cockpit and postgresql
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:30:44
see the tests under server-dvd-iso at https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/overview?distri=fedora&version=Rawhide&build=Fedora-Rawhide-20260729.n.0&groupid=1
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:31:03
If it would help for me to get involved in automation land, I'd be down. I bring this up because [Peter Boy (ServerWG, Docs)](https://matrix.to/#/@pboy:fedora.im) you've been asking for help on testing front and I haven't provided any.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:31:34
it'd be great to have more folks contributing. getting up to speed on adding openQA tests is a bit of a learning curve but I and lruzicka are always around to help
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:33:23
proposed. !info eseyman will check the list of changes, the group will continue to test.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:33:23
OK, I think it is time to wrap-up and to proceed.
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:33:24
Okay, I will join the QA channel.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:33:38
Anything to add to the wrapup?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:34:13
Brett yup, #quality:fedoraproject.org is the best place to chat about this
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:34:30
Obviously not.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:34:38
!info eseyman will check the list of changes, the group will continue to test.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:35:07
!topic 3. Project Ansible support
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:35:22
No tracking issue yet
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:35:42
We decided, to discuss about this today.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:35:55
What is the status now?
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:37:31
Emmanuel has submitted an ansible role to accomplish post-install tasks. +1 to Emmanuel
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:37:33
Emmanuel Seyman: I seem to remember you posting something about post-installation. But I can’t find it anymore. Did I just imagine it?
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:37:54
No, there's a draft PR that I made last night
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:38:12
It's not much but I plan to work on it over my vacation
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:38:27
(My packaging woes are still not over)
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:39:31
I would very much like to apply the structure described in https://www.ansiblebyexample.com/articles/ansible-playbook-structure-project-layout-best-practices to our repo
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:39:32
I would like to suggest we follow the GitLab workflow for ansible work rather than the workflow used by docs. It seems to me to be a better fit. Especially if we have to support multiple versions across several active and proposed releases.
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:39:47
Would anyone object ?
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:40:17
+1 from me since that's the file structure I use.
<@korora:fedora.im>
17:40:31
I propose we come back to the layout practices after we’ve had time to look at them (for those of us not used to angle)
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:41:52
It seema reasonable to me. Allthough, I don't have a lot of experiences, so my opionion may not much worth.
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:41:59
Based on your link above, I use the "Enterprise layout" lol but I don't see a "GitLab workflow"
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:42:25
Ansible makes a lot of assumptions regarding the file system structure. If we deviate, there lies many hidden dragons.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:42:36
I guess, it will get clearer to me if we have a real example case.
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:42:41
Agree that Ansible enforces a mostly standard layout.
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:42:52
FTR, I'm talking about the "Standard Project Layout" section with bits of the Entreprise layout where it makes sens
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
17:42:57
FTR, I'm talking about the "Standard Project Layout" section with bits of the Entreprise layout where it makes sense
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:43:45
GitLab workflow is documented on the GitLab project web pages.
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:43:46
Gotcha, yeah, that's pretty normal. For me "Enterprise layout" in this context mostly just means a subfolder for playbooks.
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:44:13
Oh, I haven't seen those (and didn't know we had a GitLab beyond where the main site is hosted)
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:45:10
GitLab has it's own standalone project website that has nothing to do with Fedora.
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:45:51
https://about.gitlab.com/topics/version-control/what-is-gitlab-flow/
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:45:51
Oh, are you talking about this? GItLab Flow?
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
17:46:36
Brett: Yes
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:47:20
OK, I think it is time to wrap-up and then proceed. Our time is nearly up.
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:47:26
Oh, gotcha.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:47:37
!info Members should take a look at the link to the [AnsibleByExample](https://www.ansiblebyexample.com/articles/ansible-playbook-structure-project-layout-best-practices) playbook structure. We’ll go through this using a specific example. The [GitLab workflow](https://about.gitlab.com/topics/version-control/what-is-gitlab-flow/) would be an interesting alternative.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:48:19
!topic 4. Fedora home server spin-off: Kiwi development environment
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:48:32
Tracking issue: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/server/tickets/issues/227
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:49:14
And there is a PR by Brett (I'm looking for the link)
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:49:28
https://forge.fedoraproject.org/server/home-server/pulls/1
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:49:31
There you go
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:49:43
Thanks !😀
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:50:02
locked and loaded 🤣
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:50:48
As I see, the README contains some instructions to set up the environment.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:51:40
Brett: Do you think we shoud read those instructions and try to use it?
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:52:09
I think it's ready for that. I recreated the VM like 30 times to get to where it is lol
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:52:28
Time will tell if my instructions are clear but I responded to a first round of feedback from [Ro](https://matrix.to/#/@goroboro:matrix.org).
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:52:55
It hosts the KIWI build environment in one VM and creates a second throwaway VM for testing resulting ISO images.
<@goroboro:matrix.org>
17:53:05
yeah... sorry... that was mostly editorial... I haven't tried setting this up yet :)
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:53:18
Haha, it's all good
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:53:31
Yeah, to do the testing and the documentation take a alwys surprisingly a lot of time, time and again
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:53:36
It might be overkill but I don't like having to reboot or clean up wonky device nodes when working on disk images.
<@korora:fedora.im>
17:53:39
I will attempt to test the build setup on my server between now and next week.
<@goroboro:matrix.org>
17:53:41
been struggling with time this week... trying to keep focus
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:54:11
So this setup runs everything in a VM to keep it clean, but mounts the project directory as a volume inside to share data between the guest and host
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:55:12
It limits to user networking so that you don't have to set up a separate bridge network, so you gotta use console access rather than SSH, but you mostly just open a session to run kiwi, the rest of the time you develop on your host.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:55:22
I ignored the Readme (as I always do 😒)until it was too late, so I couldn’t really make much use of the files.
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:55:33
Ahahaha
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:55:56
There's make targets for all the things I needed to do to get to a running ISO image.
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:56:42
But it's pointed at a pre-defined KIWI description for a minimal Fedora image in the upstream KIWI project. The next step is to make a more "official" KIWI description for home server specifically that would be committed to the repo.
<@korora:fedora.im>
17:57:10
Readme files are like instructions: ain’t no one got time for that.
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:57:21
But I want to set up an XML dev environment before I go too deep into trying to author these abominable configs
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:57:49
lol, I can write a summary of the README with instructions on how to read it. 🙂
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:57:54
Well, let's wrap up.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:58:01
!info Brett’s guide on development with Kiwi is now ready for you to try out and test. We’re calling on any interested members to give it a go and provide feedback.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:58:10
I hope that is correct?
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
17:58:41
Yep, it's ready for YOU ☝️
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:59:01
!info Brett’s guide on development with Kiwi is now ready for all to try out and test. We’re calling on any interested members to give it a go and provide feedback.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:59:16
better now? 😉
<@pboy:fedora.im>
17:59:39
OK, let's proceed.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:00:07
!topic 5. Open Floor
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
18:00:11
oh lol I wasn't even commenting on that, that's funny
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:00:46
Well, the floor is open for everything
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
18:01:02
FTR, I will be on vacation for the next 2 weeks starting on Friday
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
18:01:12
Don't wait for me at the meetins
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
18:01:19
Don't wait for me at the meetings
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
18:01:57
Is it okay to commit Emmanuel Seyman 's PR for post-install ansible, so the rest of us can pull it down for testing?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:01:57
Emmanuel Seyman: Have a rest! And come back feeling refreshed!
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:02:38
John Himpel: yes I think. Can you do it?
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
18:03:08
I think so. I know I have permissions. I just have to brush up on my git foo.
<@goroboro:matrix.org>
18:03:13
um... A couple of PRs waiting... I added a neat one on configuring dnsmasq for UEFI HTTP Boot... that's different to pxeboot. https://forge.fedoraproject.org/server/user-documentation/pulls/205
<@goroboro:matrix.org>
18:03:44
Also... this one can be merged: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/server/user-documentation/pulls/203
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
18:03:50
Oh, yeah, I started on some new PRs yesterday but haven't finished yet. So much fun documentation to write. 🙂
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
18:04:11
Can anybody but me run "git clone https://forge.fedoraproject.org/eseyman/ansible-support.git" ?
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
18:04:11
That is a good question...
<@goroboro:matrix.org>
18:04:31
I guess I can wait until Friday and merge that myself when I have permission to do that :)
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:04:40
I'll walk through all open PR either tomorrow or on Friday - depending on the heat wave we are expecting.
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
18:05:05
Yes!
<@goroboro:matrix.org>
18:05:15
I can clone this
<@goroboro:matrix.org>
18:05:26
it is large though
<@goroboro:matrix.org>
18:05:40
or just slow
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
18:06:02
Seems to be some images maybe?
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
18:06:11
Seems on the larger
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
18:06:13
Yes, it seems the repo was not created from nothing
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
18:06:18
Emmanuel Seyman: I was able to pull from that url
<@brettweir:matrix.org>
18:06:22
Seems on the larger side
<@eseyman:fedora.im>
18:06:38
Good to know
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:08:03
I can see we’ve gone well over our time. Let’s continue the discussion in our Matrix room.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:08:18
!endmeeting