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<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:00:07

!startmeeting FESCO (2025-03-04)

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

17:00:08

Meeting started at 2025-03-04 17:00:07 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

17:00:08

The Meeting name is 'FESCO (2025-03-04)'

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:00:17

!meetingname fesco

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:00:17

Chairs: @conan_kudo:matrix.org, @ngompa:fedora.im, @nirik:matrix.scrye.com, @humaton:fedora.im, @zbyszek:fedora.im, @sgallagh:fedora.im, @fale:fale.io, @dcantrell:fedora.im, @decathorpe:fedora.im, @salimma:fedora.im

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:00:17

!topic Init Process

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

17:00:18

The Meeting Name is now fesco

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:00:26

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:00:28

Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:00:55

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:00:57

Fabio Valentini (decathorpe) - he / him / his

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

17:01:21

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:01:22

Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek (zbyszek)

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

17:01:26

BTW, was the agenda sent out?

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:01:44

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:01:49

morning

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:02:43

I was out sick yesterday and forgot about it

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:04:15

ok there is 5 of us

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:04:23

lets start

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:04:45

!topic 3347 RFC: Schedule checkpoint for landing major toolchain upgrades

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:04:48

!fesco 3347

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:04:49

**fesco #3347** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3347):**RFC: Schedule checkpoint for landing major toolchain upgrades**

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:04:49

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:04:49

● **Assignee:** Not Assigned

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:04:49

● **Last Updated:** 2 hours ago

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:04:49

● **Opened:** a month ago by decathorpe

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

17:05:02

Please don't forget to announce the changes that you marked as announced in the ticket today…

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:05:33

oh yeah I plan to do that in the email after the meeting, that is why they are still opened

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:05:57

back to the ticket

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:06:12

there is a proposal there and 2 out of the 5 present voted

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

17:06:25

Conan Kudo and I were +1

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:07:09

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:07:09

!topic Proposal: Major toolchain upgrades must land at least 7 days before the scheduled start of the mass rebuild.

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:07:19

(for the record, "one week before the start of the mass rebuild" might also mean "mass rebuild is postponed if necessary" :D

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:07:31

that's why it was written that way, yes

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:07:49

well, the proposal had more than that too tho right?

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

17:07:51

Yeah, probably. We'd probably vote on this.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:08:07

both solutions are valid, but it is something we'd deal with on a case-by-case basis

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:08:12

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:08:12

the proposal literally has only

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:08:12

> Major toolchain upgrades must land at least 7 days before the scheduled start of the mass rebuild.

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:08:39

we might want to drop "scheduled" so it's clear that both endpoints of those 7 days can move.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:09:03

well shifting the start of the mass build is a fesco decision

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:09:10

yeah, but... tools folks were asking about the mass prebuild. I guess if thats not part of the proposal no one cares? ;)

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:09:26

MPB doesn't matter from our perspective

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:09:35

it basically doesn't exist for policymaking purposes

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:09:49

I think thats a odd way to look at it, but ok.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:10:17

the problem is when things land in fedora, and mpb doesn't affect that, you can run mpb things whenever you want

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:10:46

sure, but it makes the thing less surprising when it lands.

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:11:02

since all those bugs/etc are already filed/found/known, or at least some of them

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:11:15

fwiw there apparently was a "mass prebuild" for GCC 15 in December (?) but they just didn't act on the results or publish them at all

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

17:11:25

Yeah, there was.

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:11:37

so saying a "mass prebuild" needs to happen means nothing

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

17:11:38

They didn't have enough time to analyze the results properly and report.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:12:02

and I don't think we should be making policy around mpb anyway

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:12:18

ok, fair, we can leave that to them...

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:12:24

in an ideal world, mpb runs are happening regularly against gcc and llvm snapshots like python does with every milestone for new python releases

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

17:12:31

Yeah, we shouldn't do micromanagment.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:12:31

but that's not really up to us

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:14:15

ok, anyhow, I guess I am +1 to the proposal. Hopefully it won't cause tools folks too much pain...

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:14:58

ideally, less pain than for the F42 cycle :)

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:15:23

having to fix compiler bugs under time pressure doesn't sound like fun

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:15:51

sure, but having to also rush out a release because it needs to land earlier also doesn't sound fun.

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:16:24

ok I count 4+1 including me and Fabio Valentini is also +1 since he is the proponent on the ticket

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:16:27

it's **at most** like 5-6 days earlier in rawhide

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:16:40

(yes, I'm also +1 to myself, fwiw)

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:16:48

!agreed APPROVED(5,0,0)

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:17:25

can we !action Aoife to add this to the schedule? 😄

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:17:46

hmm

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:17:51

!action Aoife Moloney will add the new milestone to the F42 key tasks schedule

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:17:56

blech

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:17:59

I wish we had undo

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:18:01

thanks

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:18:06

!action Aoife Moloney will add the new milestone to the F43 key tasks schedule

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:18:23

!topic 3332 Incompatible update policy violations wrt libgit2-1.9.0 updates

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:18:26

!fesco 3332

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:18:28

● **Assignee:** Not Assigned

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:18:28

**fesco #3332** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3332):**Incompatible update policy violations wrt libgit2-1.9.0 updates**

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:18:28

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:18:28

● **Opened:** a month ago by yselkowitz

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:18:28

● **Last Updated:** 2 hours ago

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:18:55

there is a proposal by zbyszek https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3332#comment-957814

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:19:24

note that this proposal wouldn't apply to libgit2 :)

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:20:01

because dependent packages *do* need to adjust their BRs to keep building against the same libgit2 version

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

17:20:29

Hmm, that depends on how the deps are declared, no?

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:20:54

Most just do `BuildRequires: libgit2-devel` or similar unversioned `pkgconfig(...)`

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

17:21:08

If they are not say '`Requires: pkgconf(libgit) < 1.9.0`' than they would be OK?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:21:12

I'm more concerned if the flatpak buildroot isn't inheriting updates properly

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:21:28

you would need to use something like `(pkgconfig(libgit2) >= 1.4 with pkgconfig(libgit2) < 1.5)`

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:21:35

this breakage shouldn't have happened in the first place

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:21:42

because by all rights the packager did the right thing

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:21:54

they should, but basically no package does this

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

17:21:56

Yeah, so I think that's fine. If they dependent packages need to be updated to work with the new version, and they maintainers know this, then some coordination is necessary.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

17:23:12

In the proposal "Advance notification is not required when **no changes or rebuilds in dependent packages are necessary**", emphasis added.

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:23:22

I am aware

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:23:36

I just wanted to explicitly say that this makes this not apply to the libgit2 update in question ;)

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:23:40

as such, I'm +1 to the proposal

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:24:02

+1 as well

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:24:20

but yeah what about the libgit2

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:25:33

give a "fesco-themed virtual slap on the wrist"? not sure we can do more

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:25:43

+1 to the proposal, seems reasonable

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:26:07

ok lets do the formal vote

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:26:12

!topic Proposal: Changes to packaging that maintain compatibility can happen at any time, though it is recommended to avoid bigger changes in stable releases. Advance notification is not required when no changes or rebuilds in dependent packages are necessary. When considering compatibility, maintainers must take all into account all the ways that packages are used, i.e. not just rpm builds, but also ostree and flatpaks deployments.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:26:32

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:26:37

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

17:26:38

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:28:43

nirik ?

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:29:07

huh I commented on wrong ticket prematurely :D

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

17:29:43

I was +1 before, still am. ;)

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:30:00

!agreed APPROVED (5,0,0)

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:31:52

and that is all I had

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:32:01

there si couple of fasttrack tickets

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:32:25

one has reached +7 with my vote and one is missing few https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3369

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

17:33:00

Those are for CVEs, so I think it'd be nice to vote on them quickly.

<@zbyszek:fedora.im>

17:33:08

We're pretty slow already.

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:33:52

!topic Next week's chair

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:34:05

!action Fale will chair next meeting

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:34:16

!topic Open Floor

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:35:03

anything for open floor?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

17:35:58

nothing from me

<@decathorpe:fedora.im>

17:36:58

nope

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:37:21

thank you all and see you around!

<@humaton:fedora.im>

17:37:24

!endmeeting