2025-02-13 20:00:40 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !startmeeting ELN SIG 13 Feb 2025-02-13 20:00:42 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-02-13 20:00:40 UTC 2025-02-13 20:00:43 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'ELN SIG 13 Feb' 2025-02-13 20:00:53 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !meetingname eln 2025-02-13 20:00:54 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now eln 2025-02-13 20:00:59 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic Init process 2025-02-13 20:01:09 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !hi 2025-02-13 20:01:12 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Troy Dawson (tdawson) 2025-02-13 20:01:26 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi 2025-02-13 20:01:28 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his 2025-02-13 20:01:46 <@davide:cavalca.name> !hi 2025-02-13 20:01:49 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his 2025-02-13 20:03:27 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon Conan Kudo Johnny Hughes are you around? 2025-02-13 20:03:43 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi 2025-02-13 20:03:46 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his 2025-02-13 20:04:22 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> let's get started 2025-02-13 20:04:37 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic New business 2025-02-13 20:05:02 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !link https://github.com/minimization/content-resolver-input/pull/1361 2025-02-13 20:06:04 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca Michel Lind 🎩 UTC-6 the new ncdu 2.x version is unbuildable in ELN Extras, wondering if it can be dropped? (details in ticket) 2025-02-13 20:06:28 <@davide:cavalca.name> yeah let's drop it for now 2025-02-13 20:07:32 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> thanks, I'll get that merged 2025-02-13 20:08:01 <@salimma:fedora.im> this is related old business, but I'll rebase and fix my PR after you land that 2025-02-13 20:08:29 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> merged! 2025-02-13 20:08:43 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> !hi 2025-02-13 20:08:45 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> Michel Lind 🎩 UTC-6 that would be great, thanks 2025-02-13 20:08:46 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his 2025-02-13 20:09:03 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> Thanks for the ping i neglected to fix my calendar... 2025-02-13 20:11:15 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> anyone else have new business to discuss? 2025-02-13 20:12:46 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic old business 2025-02-13 20:13:10 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info 60+ ELN packages are still F42FTBFS 2025-02-13 20:13:17 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !link https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/218 2025-02-13 20:14:37 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info ~30 ELN Extras packages are still F42FTBFS 2025-02-13 20:14:39 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !link https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/219 2025-02-13 20:15:07 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info only a handful of ELN specific build failures remaining 2025-02-13 20:15:10 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !link https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/221 2025-02-13 20:15:42 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> unfortunately it seems that build fixes are slowing down 2025-02-13 20:15:43 <@salimma:fedora.im> huh... gtk2? and... koji 2025-02-13 20:16:04 <@salimma:fedora.im> IDK about other people, I feel like I'm just starting to ramp up again after all the conference travels 2025-02-13 20:16:06 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> yeah, in Extras 2025-02-13 20:16:24 <@salimma:fedora.im> and having to split stuff doing internal non-open-source work as well as chasing F42 feature work 2025-02-13 20:16:57 <@salimma:fedora.im> is there an easy way to trace who needs gtk2? 2025-02-13 20:17:00 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> i'm ashamed to admit i'm only now looking at my _own_ f42 ftbfs... 2025-02-13 20:17:04 <@salimma:fedora.im> that might be ... a candidate for dropping. it's 2025 :) 2025-02-13 20:17:26 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> https://tiny.distro.builders/view-rpm--view-eln-extras--gtk2.html 2025-02-13 20:17:33 <@salimma:fedora.im> heh I sometimes skip the ftbfs where I'm the primary assignee but it's a hard problem and help clean up packages I comaintain first 2025-02-13 20:17:35 <@salimma:fedora.im> ooh nice 2025-02-13 20:17:40 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> leafpad, in Troy Dawson's workload 2025-02-13 20:18:31 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> not having gtk2 in EPEL 11 might be a worthy goal, but not sure who is going to *drive* it 2025-02-13 20:18:34 <@salimma:fedora.im> I wonder how feasible it is to have a Fedora change proposal to ... deprecate gtk2 :) 2025-02-13 20:18:37 <@salimma:fedora.im> not drop, just deprecate 2025-02-13 20:19:09 <@salimma:fedora.im> at least we stop new dependencies and signal we'll eventually remove it. then we can drive the cleanup later 2025-02-13 20:19:20 <@salimma:fedora.im> there must be.. unpatched security issues affecting gtk2 by now right? 2025-02-13 20:19:30 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Wait ... leafpad wants gtk2 .... *sigh* ... ok, I'll have to find something else small to put in there. 2025-02-13 20:19:47 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> not sure who would drive that, given that we still have glib/gtk+ 1.x in fedora 🤦♂️ 2025-02-13 20:19:50 <@salimma:fedora.im> last release of leafpad is 2022 2025-02-13 20:19:55 <@salimma:fedora.im> https://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/leafpad/?C=M&O=D 2025-02-13 20:20:02 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'm trying to find its source repo but have not found ityet 2025-02-13 20:20:15 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> technically it says "GTK+ >= 2.0.0 so ... lewer code _should_ work? **ducks** 2025-02-13 20:20:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> http://savannah.nongnu.org/cvs/?group=leafpad 2025-02-13 20:20:27 <@tdawson:fedora.im> There are roughly 200 packages in Fedora that want gtk2 2025-02-13 20:20:28 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh boy CVS 2025-02-13 20:21:13 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ya know ... I could probrubly just drop my whole extras person list, I only put it in there originally as an example. 2025-02-13 20:21:14 <@salimma:fedora.im> nope, source repo is empty, they just have tarballs 2025-02-13 20:22:05 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah I think we won't remove it as a first step, totally unrealistic. just marking it deprecated (e.g. python-mock has been deprecated for multiple Fedora releases, and I've been trying to actually remove it for the past 3 releases on and off :P) 2025-02-13 20:22:20 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> https://github.com/tarot231/leafpad found this ? 2025-02-13 20:22:29 <@salimma:fedora.im> koji sounds like we might want to fix it 2025-02-13 20:22:40 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> perhaps... 2025-02-13 20:22:46 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> yeah probably a good idea 🙂 2025-02-13 20:22:57 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh thanks 2025-02-13 20:23:10 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ya, koji needs to be fixed, at least the client side. 2025-02-13 20:24:02 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> ftr for the most part I've just been leaving F42FTBFS to the maintainers, and focusing on ELN failures 2025-02-13 20:24:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah 2025-02-13 20:24:31 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> but we're at +3 weeks since already and it's slowing down, so it's probably time to step in and move things along 2025-02-13 20:24:53 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> plus I'm starting to work on f42 flatpaks as well, and already encountered a couple of these 2025-02-13 20:25:07 <@salimma:fedora.im> the golang ones are a bit intractable this time - I think I have one or two packages where it's not clear how to fix it 2025-02-13 20:25:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'll follow up and get bugs filed upstream at least so upstream is aware 2025-02-13 20:25:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> it also does not help that iirc golang 1.24 is not *officially* out yet 2025-02-13 20:25:46 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> the joys of being First, but somebody has to do it 2025-02-13 20:26:11 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah. let's hope Fabio's proposal for slowing down toolchain changes get traction 2025-02-13 20:26:37 <@salimma:fedora.im> it's one thing to be first, it's another to drop a change without scoping out the potential breakage first - "oh we didn't have time to check the rebuild failrues" 2025-02-13 20:26:45 <@salimma:fedora.im> it's one thing to be first, it's another to drop a change without scoping out the potential breakage first - "oh we didn't have time to check the rebuild failures" 2025-02-13 20:27:58 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> not sure if it's going to be slowing down so much as preempting failures through copr testing first etc. 2025-02-13 20:28:15 <@salimma:fedora.im> the gold standard will be how Python does it really 2025-02-13 20:28:42 <@salimma:fedora.im> except ... need to talk to the python folks, the local rebuilding instructions have been failing for a while so it's hard to test. but anyway, not directly relevant :) 2025-02-13 20:29:40 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> I have a particular interest in this timing because two years from now we're due to branch RHEL 11 from Fedora 46, and from experience I can tell you that two weeks (between mass rebuild and branching) to fix *all* the failures is INTENSE 2025-02-13 20:30:46 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> sort of related to this topic, Troy Dawson have you (or KDE SIG) made plans for qt5 in EPEL 11? I'm wondering if we should just start dropping things from the KDE workload that haven't migrated yet 2025-02-13 20:31:18 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> *except* that vlc is still on qt5, although work is underway upstream to backport qt6 support to vlc 3 2025-02-13 20:31:31 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> which tells you something about the state of vlc 4... 2025-02-13 20:32:32 <@salimma:fedora.im> vlc is not part of... oh is KDE using vlc? 2025-02-13 20:32:35 <@tdawson:fedora.im> There are still quite a few things on qt5. My opinion is give it another year, and at that point, take out whatever hasn't moved over yet. 2025-02-13 20:32:38 <@salimma:fedora.im> just ffmpeg, right? 2025-02-13 20:33:35 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> https://tiny.distro.builders/view-rpm--view-eln-extras--qt5-qtbase.html 2025-02-13 20:33:45 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> looks like ksnip, mallit-keyboard, and vlc 2025-02-13 20:33:58 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> *maliit-keyboard 2025-02-13 20:34:19 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Oh ya ... maliit-keyboard 2025-02-13 20:34:29 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> yeah I think there's already a KDE SIG ticket on that one 2025-02-13 20:34:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> There is work on a new keyboard. 2025-02-13 20:34:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh it's a phone thing 2025-02-13 20:35:09 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Not totally phone, but yes, it pops up if you don't have a keyboard present. 2025-02-13 20:35:22 <@salimma:fedora.im> ksnip can probably be... dropped right? 2025-02-13 20:35:29 <@salimma:fedora.im> in favor of spectacle? 2025-02-13 20:36:09 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> ksnip ported to qt6 some time ago 2025-02-13 20:36:11 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> just not released 2025-02-13 20:36:13 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Um ... it already has been. I guess we need to go through the list again. 2025-02-13 20:36:26 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> https://github.com/ksnip/ksnip/pull/1101 2025-02-13 20:38:19 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> ok so there's hope for it still 2025-02-13 20:38:24 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> Troy Dawson what about delisting the qt5-qt* packages and just let them be pulled in as deps until things have been ported? that would at least cut down the breadth of the stack until it goes away entirely? 2025-02-13 20:38:45 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> and better express the wish not to have them at all in EPEL 11? 2025-02-13 20:38:47 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'm good with that. 2025-02-13 20:39:30 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> can I leave that to you to submit the PR? 2025-02-13 20:39:36 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Yep 2025-02-13 20:40:04 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !action Troy to submit a PR to clean up qt5 from Extras 2025-02-13 20:40:19 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> anything else on this topic? 2025-02-13 20:41:55 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> ok then we have a few minutes to look at older tickets 2025-02-13 20:42:43 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !link https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/152 2025-02-13 20:43:05 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca this was yours, but not sure exactly what you're looking for? 2025-02-13 20:44:12 <@davide:cavalca.name> Basically when a workload (say, the meta one) fails currently the only way to tell is to look at the dashboard or notice that packages are missing 2025-02-13 20:44:47 <@davide:cavalca.name> It'd be good to expose this in some machine relatable way alongside the compose 2025-02-13 20:45:10 <@davide:cavalca.name> So one can make an informed choice whether to ingest it or not 2025-02-13 20:45:49 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> that sounds like a form of compose gating? 2025-02-13 20:46:39 <@davide:cavalca.name> That would be orthogonal. This is just about recording as part of the compose artifacts which workloads were part of it and if they failed or not 2025-02-13 20:47:03 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah 2025-02-13 20:47:13 <@salimma:fedora.im> because if you don't care about a particular workload you can still consume the workload 2025-02-13 20:47:15 <@davide:cavalca.name> You could definitely then consume this as signal for gating among other things 2025-02-13 20:47:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> the compose I mean 2025-02-13 20:48:01 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> ok I think I see what you're saying now 2025-02-13 20:48:23 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> no idea how that would be implemented though 🤷♂️ 2025-02-13 20:50:13 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> if you could clarify that for future reference, we'll have to leave it in the backlog for now but I'm hoping we'll be getting more help with tooling in the near future 2025-02-13 20:51:10 <@davide:cavalca.name> Yeah I'll comment in the yicket 2025-02-13 20:51:17 <@davide:cavalca.name> Yeah I'll comment in the ticket 2025-02-13 20:52:06 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> thanks, it sounds like a good idea and is probably doable, but not in the next few weeks I suspect 2025-02-13 20:52:34 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> one more I wanted to get to today: 2025-02-13 20:52:37 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !link https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/192 2025-02-13 20:53:00 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Oh, did anyone send an email about that? 2025-02-13 20:53:10 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> last week we agreed to open for desktop artwork submissions, and hold a vote in three weeks hence (now two weeks) 2025-02-13 20:53:40 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> Oh, awesome! I will share this around 😃 2025-02-13 20:53:54 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> (If that's OK) 2025-02-13 20:54:09 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> it was in the meeting minutes sent to devel@ but I didn't send a specific email about it 2025-02-13 20:54:19 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Yes, please 2025-02-13 20:54:52 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info artwork submissions for ELN backgrounds are open for two more weeks 2025-02-13 20:54:56 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> and... trade 🙂 https://forums.rockylinux.org/t/rocky-linux-10-wallpaper-contest/17501 2025-02-13 20:55:55 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> anything else on this point? 2025-02-13 20:56:15 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> not from me . hoping to contribute more in 2025 than 2024. 2025-02-13 20:56:26 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> looking forward to it! 2025-02-13 20:56:29 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic Open Floor 2025-02-13 20:56:45 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> 4 minutes left, anything else to discuss today? 2025-02-13 20:57:25 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Nothing from me. 2025-02-13 20:59:53 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> seeing none, in that case, thank you all for your participation today 2025-02-13 20:59:55 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !endmeeting