<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:00:26
!startmeeting fedora-server
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
18:00:28
Meeting started at 2024-11-13 18:00:26 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
18:00:29
The Meeting name is 'fedora-server'
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:00:35
!topic Welcome / roll call
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:00:44
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:00:45
Adam Williamson (adamwill) - he / him / his
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:00:47
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:00:47
As usual, let's wait a moment
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:01:03
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:01:06
Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:01:13
Hi Adamn#1
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:01:32
Hi Neal!
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:02:45
morning. lurking in the back in the epel meeting also
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:03:19
Yeah, to less time for too much tasks :-)
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:03:42
Nevertheless, we fulfill our Quorum.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:04:21
OK, let's start with the agenda.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:04:29
!topic Agenda
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:04:37
!info Follow-up actions & announcements
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:04:45
!info Looking back at testing release 41
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:04:54
!info PostgreSQL – is our automatic testing sufficient?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:05:03
!info Our work program 2024/2025
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:05:10
!info Open Floor
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:05:49
Well, I forgot:
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:06:03
!info Fedora Server Edition user poll
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:06:29
Anything to add / to comment?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:06:52
OK, let's start
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:07:01
!topic 1. Follow-up actions & announcements
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:07:12
For information purposes only: Here is an rundown of our current activities:
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:07:22
!action ON HOLD pboy will file an issue with releng regarding installation media
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:07:32
!action ONGOING pboy will close bug #2247872 (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2247872)
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:07:40
!action ONGOING pboy will write a draft issue for the goal "file server" as a base for further finetuning and detailed specification
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:07:50
!action ONGOING jwhimnpel will develop a Ansible playbook for NFS service
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:07:58
!action PENDING eseyman review John's playbooks
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:08:07
!action DONE eseyman will monitor the change list for possible issues which may affect Server
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:08:16
!action DONE mowest will reach out to AdamW and discuss how we can use the result tables.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:08:26
!action DONE pboy will create a tracking issue and copy the table of F 40 as a starting point.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:08:36
!action DONE Mowest will create a Lime survey version of the discussed draft and reach out to Justin to put the project forward.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:08:45
!action PENDING Mowest will write a 1st draft of an article about our poll.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:08:51
See:
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:09:04
!link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/server-working-group/wg-minutes-2024/
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
18:09:38
!hi
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:09:38
That's only to keept an overview, what we have accomplished and what has still to be done
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:09:40
John Himpel (jwhimpel)
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
18:09:52
Sorry that I am late.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:10:09
Thanks, we just started.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:10:19
Anything to add to the list?
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
18:10:31
Nope
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:10:41
What about the port to kiwi for the images?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:10:57
https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/146
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:11:18
Yes, we agreed to do it for KVM, details are on the agenda for next meeting.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:11:35
It there anything urgent?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:11:50
nope
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:11:54
is there anything holding it up, or should we just go ahead and do it?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:12:00
earlier in the cycle is better for such changes, generally
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:12:07
there is that
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:12:18
I'm also beginning to reach out to everyone else about switching too
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:12:29
I think, we already agreed and you should proceed.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:12:53
i guess we just need to bikeshed the name
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:13:04
We have to determine some details, e.g. how I can make changes, e.r. regarding the open bug mentioned above.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:13:06
+1 to just doing it. ;)
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:14:29
The naming convention is an additional topic. I suppose we should do that together with the isos, or stat now to use the name we agreed upon (I think, earlier is betterI
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:16:21
I'm looking for the naming we agreed upon
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:16:27
yeah, we should agree on a name indeed. I personally don't care much... ;)
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:16:41
What do we have in that PR Conan Kudo ?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:16:52
Server-Guest-Generic iirc
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:16:57
yes
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:17:11
it's more or less based on the naming pattern used for existing kiwi images
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:17:11
!link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/126
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:17:28
i don't really care about the name that goes into the image filename, but i'd kinda prefer to keep the subvariant as 'Server_KVM', as it currently is
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:17:47
can send a pungi-fedora pr for that
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:17:49
the subvariant is settable in the pungi thing, so we can leave that whatever
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:18:11
We wanted to use something like Fedora-Server-39-virt-x86_64-1.5.qcow2
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:18:11
the `Server-` prefix is the only real non-negotiable part
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:18:30
For isos: Fedora-Server-39-offline-x86_64-1.5.iso
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:18:47
so kiwi based images are configured in pungi to follow NVRA format
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:19:10
technically we can override it, but I'd rather not so that automation that parses the filenames can have something reasonably predictable
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:19:48
So we had to use Server-39-virt-x86_64-1.5.qcow2 instead of Fedora-Server-39-virt-x86_64-1.5.qcow2 ?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:20:01
hence `Fedora-Server-Guest-Generic-42-1.5.x86_64.qcow2` currently
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:21:26
Hm, I thing we should keep what we agreed upon.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:21:44
well, we can override it for you, but you will be the only ones with that format
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:22:25
it just changes "Geust-Generic" to virt
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:22:39
Well, and changes the order regard the release tag.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:22:40
so what do we call the image that goes on hardware?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:22:52
because right now we have Guest-Generic and Host-Generic
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:23:33
Currently we decided: Fedora-Server-39-offline-x86_64-1.5.iso
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:23:51
and online resp.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:24:00
conan means the other disk image
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:24:18
yeah, the raw disk image
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:24:21
not the iso
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:24:22
https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/rawhide/Fedora-Rawhide-20241113.n.0/compose/Server/aarch64/images/
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:24:31
The SBC is edora-Server-39-rawsbc-aarch64-1.5.raw.xz
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:24:37
currently we have "Fedora-Server-KVM" (virt guest) and "Fedora-Server" (intended for hw)
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:25:38
Regarding hardware we decided online (netboot) and offline (DVD)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:25:50
right now, we're not talking about ISO files
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:26:08
those are handled by a different tool and aren't currently eligible to move to kiwi
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:26:17
(or any other image tool fedora supports)
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
18:27:10
Are we talking about the name that is shown in /etc/os-release?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:27:56
At the end we need to think in long term. And we want to keep together what belongs together. Therefore the order of the naming elements.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:28:30
John Himpel: no, the naming of the download files.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:29:02
no, this is just the filename for the image
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:29:03
i think we should just port the image now and argue about the naming later
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:29:10
yeah
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:29:22
I can merge it and then we can start hooking things up
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:29:36
the filename is configurable in pungi, we can change it at any time
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:29:43
hooking things up: https://pagure.io/pungi-fedora/pull-request/1404
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:30:28
(that only ports the KVM image for now, not the hw one)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:30:50
the hw one needs to move too since it's imgfac anyway
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:31:00
proposed !agreed The KVM image will be migrated to KIWI now, the adjustment of the naming will de dealt with later together with the isos.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:31:12
do we know if pbrobinson thinks there's any special hw support magic in the IF build or anything? wasn't that a thing last cycle?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:31:37
he thinks the if stuff is _missing_ extra magic things
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:31:43
he thinks the imgfac stuff is _missing_ extra magic things
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:32:01
but I've poured over both imgfac and osbuild and anything they're doing is already being handled in kiwi
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:32:32
anyway, I just merged the kiwi descriptions
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:32:33
oh, right, we were talking about going back from osbuild to if
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:32:39
Peter Boy: +1
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:33:05
i guess we can merge the PR to port the kvm image then i can send another to port the hw image
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:33:23
sure
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:33:37
we'll need nirik to do the koji things too (package spaces and such)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:33:38
ack, btw
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:33:58
John?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:34:23
John Himpel: ping
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:35:12
Well, I suppose, John has no objection. Therefore
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:35:53
I suppose, John has no objection. Therefore
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:35:57
!agreed The KVM image will be migrated to KIWI now, the adjustment of the naming will de dealt with later together with the isos.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:36:33
OK, let's switch to the next topic.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:37:10
!topic 2. Fedora Server Edition user poll
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:38:38
Just informational: As fas as I know mowest and JWF (he/him) could get together an manage to transfer the current version to Fedora Infra.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:38:57
Se we are still waiting at the moment.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:39:19
mowest: ping! are to online?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:40:02
Unfortunately, it is slowly becoming urgent.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:40:08
OK, next topic.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:40:28
!topic 3. Looking back at testing release 41
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:40:37
!link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/144
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:40:48
!link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/ODISTPROLKECRXX73LA5VUVZJFIFEHRR/
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:43:05
No comment so far?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:43:24
Maybe we need more discussion on mailing list?
<@mowest:fedora.im>
18:43:45
You are right I have not heard back from JWF
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:44:02
there was some pretty vehement disagreement from Fedora QA via adamw, I think what they say matters quite a lot here
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:44:31
what did i disagree about
<@mowest:fedora.im>
18:44:31
So I don't have the permission or training to host it on Fedora's instance
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:44:52
i don't disagree with the idea of doing more testing :P, just about how/where we track it
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:45:52
do we typically have testing days for Fedora Server?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:45:55
mowest: Indeed. So we need Juistin.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:46:11
that's usually the avenue to provide focused testing efforts
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:46:34
Conan Kudo: We have no testing days. that was my original idea to create one.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:47:19
But I think we should make onother week of discussion on mailing list.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:47:33
It's quite late now. And we have another qauest
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:47:42
question about testing.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:48:05
!topic 4. PostgreSQL – is our automatic testing sufficient?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:48:14
!link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/FKOGJ44LI7MYR4DE54UUHBLLUG2ENA6L/
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:48:47
My problem is not the bug, but the fact we didn't detect it while testing.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:49:07
i did just reply to this. we do not test upgrade scenarios with pgsql at all currently.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:49:23
This time it was 2just" a warning, next time maybe an error and service disruption
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:50:21
adamw: Is there a way to do upgrade testing on psql?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:50:30
i mean, sure, it's just work
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:50:36
PosrtgreSQL is one of our most important services.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:51:08
Well, i suppose just -> "just" :-)
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:52:11
Do you see a chance to work on it over the next 2-3 releases? And we do manual testing in the meantime?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:52:51
hard to say. i've always got more good ideas for stuff than i have time to do
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:53:00
if someone wants to learn openqa test writing and help out, that'd be great. :P
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:54:11
OK, we try to find someone.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:55:05
I think, we skip to Open Floor. The time left is too short for the working program topic.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:55:20
!topic 6. Open Floor
<@pboy:fedora.im>
18:55:34
Anything to add here?
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
18:56:44
Are there any plans to extend KIWI to generate iso files usable by Anaconda?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
18:59:01
it can already build live ISOs. not sure about netinst/dvd images, Conan Kudo ?
<@farchord:fedora.im>
19:00:36
Wouldn't the "Everything" image act as a DVD iso so to speak?
<@farchord:fedora.im>
19:00:54
But afaik, we make Live images, and in some cases, disk images (raw.xz)
<@farchord:fedora.im>
19:01:21
Oh nvm
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
19:01:21
No because we still use XFS instead of BTRFS.
<@farchord:fedora.im>
19:01:32
I misread, I'm sorry
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
19:01:33
server has no lives. server produces disk images, a network install image, and a dvd install image.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
19:02:51
As I understand it, iso images are either work in progress or work under decision. And it has nothing to do with the file system for partitions.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:03:24
netinst eventually, I don't know about dvds
<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>
19:03:46
He was asking about the "Everything" image, which differs from "Server" image.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:03:57
the main issue is someone needs to write an equivalent to the "product builder" extension for suse dvds for kiwi to support fedora ones
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:04:22
and to do that, someone has to understand how to make fedora dvd images
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:04:28
and none of that is written down anywhere I could find
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:05:23
I have done a lot of spelunking for porting various image types to kiwi, just never got around to the boot.iso and install dvds
<@pboy:fedora.im>
19:06:41
Well, I think we have to wait and see and live with what we have at the moment.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
19:07:02
And in the end, that works well.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
19:07:51
We've already gone over time. Let's continue next week.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
19:08:02
By everybody and thanks for comming.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
19:08:23
!endmeeting