Meeting started at 2024-07-12 16:00:27 UTC

The Meeting name is 'Fedora ELN (2024-07-12)'

The Meeting Name is now eln

!hi

Stephen Gallagher (sgallagh) - he / him / his

hello

!hi

Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his

!hi

Yaakov Selkowitz (yselkowitz)

!hi

I'll wait another minute or two to see if anyone else turns up.

Troy Dawson (tdawson)

Any other hot topics for today?

Any tepid ones?

Alright then, this will likely be a short meeting.

Usually when I have a hot bath, it eventually turns tepid

We need to convert the ELN images away from imgfac

Thank you for that insight, Troy 😆

the goal is to shut down imagefactory and oz after F41 GA

has an issue been filed for this?

Let's save that for the topic, okay?

For a little context, Fedora ELN is currently the only consumer of the On-Demand Compose Service in Fedora.

The ODCS has been effectively abandoned upstream and Fedora releng wants to drop it.

They've been asking us for a while to migrate away from ODCS and into a compose approach that more closely mirrors what we do with the rest of Fedora

!hi

Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his

happy friday y'all

We asked them to keep it limping along at least until we got CentOS Stream 10 branched off of ELN, which they agreed to.

So now it's (past) time to honor our side of that bargain.

I opened a ticket with Releng to let them know that we're going to start actively working on it, and nirik gave an encouraging reply.

We've got an in-person meeting scheduled for this coming Monday with Releng to hash out the details of the migration, so I don't know if there's much more to discuss today, unless folks want to call out some "gotchas" that we should watch out for.

sorry, by "in-person" I really mean "video-conference".

Those terms got kind of fluid in the last couple years :)

10 years at RH and I've never had an "in-person" anything :-D

yselkowitz: We need to get you to Flock this year.

But I digress

Stephen Gallagher: the big gotcha to ensure is that Davide Cavalca needs to know how to mirror composes afterward

Conan Kudo: Agreed

well, and me too, but him especially

The current plan is for us to actually adopt mirrormanager and enable things that way.

!hi

Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his

But we'll also keep the existing path available as a redirect for some as-yet-undetermined amount of time

1) how often will composes happen, and 2) who and how can ones be kicked off manually if needed?

Yes mirrormanager should work fine for us

that means an rsync module, right?

If we can get like a month to cutover with both endpoints available that would be ideal

yselkowitz: 1. To be negotiated; we probably have to discuss storage requirements.

Davide Cavalca: I was planning on asking for more like 6-12 months, so I think that works.

Yeah that's perfect

2. "Who" should be anyone in releng, plus at least two members of this SIG.

2. "How" would be login access to the compose VM and a quick shell command.

Conan Kudo: My rsync terminology is fuzzy. Define "module" for me? Is it basically a target?

It's basically a path that's exposed by rsync as a thing that can be synced

My intention is that it should be functionally equivalent to how EPEL mirroring works.

Yes that'll be fine

Mirrors can elect to pull down Fedora but not EPEL and vice-versa

yes, it's basically a download target

So you'll have a fedora-eln module in the rsync config

Yes (exact naming TBD, but `fedora-eln` seems a likely choice)

ELN Composes are quite frequent, so I expect most people will not mirror it (or do so on a slower schedule)

!hi

Jonathan Steffan (jsteffan)

OK, any further questions on the ODCS/compose topic?

None from me

Conan Kudo: Would you mind setting the stage, please?

Yeah sure.

So, davdunc and I have been working on migrating all the consumers of ImageFactory/Oz away to alternatives because we no longer want to hold it up from being shut down. It's been unmaintained for over 10 years now, and the stack is extremely brittle and broken.

The goal is that we have everything migrated away this cycle (or at least as much as possible), and shut it down.

I support this goal. How can we help?

I believe davdunc was interested in working with you Stephen Gallagher on porting over to the kiwi-descriptions for building the ELN Guest and Container images.

We already have baselines for Fedora since Fedora Cloud and Container images are made with kiwi as of Fedora 40.

So really, we just need to sit down together and get it done. It may be something we can do at Flock, perhaps?

We have a kiwi workshop scheduled.

OK, is that something we can/should do concurrently with migrating from ODCS or should we do one first?

Ooh, that sounds perfect. Let me check the Flock schedule...

Oof, that's opposite the EPEL 10 hackfest.

failing that, we can do something at DevConf.US

or some ad-hoc time somewhere

we can absolutely figure it out :)

I'll try to make it to the workshop. The EPEL 10 hackfest will be going for a while

I have to do the same splitting 😅

we need more days in Flock 😅

the best kiwi descriptions are written while drinking beers in the evening, I've found

There is also the Fedora/CentOS Cloud Infra meetup at DevConf.US in case we want to put some time aside for hackfesting...

If people are there Friday, we might be able to do something then.

Sorry, Saturday.

I'm going to be in Rochester until the 12th

I'm not certain if I'm going to make it to DevConf.us yet; I have some non-work personal things to schedule around. But I'll try.

I'm heading out on the 11th from flock. I will be at devconfus too.

I was planning to leave on the 11th originally, but with the Social Event now going until the evening, I'm considering extending my stay one more night.

In any case, let's aim to do this at the Kiwi session first and see how far we get

yeah

Speaking of flock conflicts, the eln talk is opposite of "what redhat wants"

Which I suspect will have similar audiences

Davide Cavalca: I just noticed that and requested it be moved to follow it

I think they'd do well back-to-back

arrgh, and my talk on Fedora KDE conflicts both

wow

Ah perfect I was just about to suggest talking to Justin

proposal: have them presented in tandem on the same stage with the audio mixed together

Conflicts are the inevitable result of too many companies requiring attendees to give talks in order to be funded to go :-/

OK, I think this equine is sufficiently flogged.

Nothing from me

I'm going to try an experiment today, with your permission.

Some of you probably saw the discussion thread on the last FESCo meeting where Josh Boyer provided an AI-generated summary of the conversation. I'm going to do the same with this ELN meeting (excepting that I'm going to proofread and edit it).

Does anyone object to me feeding their comments in this discussion into The Machine?

(ChatGPT, specifically)

I'm fine with it.

I for one welcome our new robot overlords

(I wondered who would make that joke)

you can cout on me

count, even

(that could've been way worse.)

Go for it.

Alright, if that's it, I'll close out the meeting.

Thanks for coming, all!