Meeting started at 2024-08-29 16:31:20 UTC

The Meeting name is 'fedora ai-ml'

!hi

Jonathan Steffan (jsteffan)

!hi

Tim Flink (tflink)

!hi

None (mystro256)

I am still "None (mystro256)" :)

hey all

Jeremy Newton: you don't appear to have your name listed in FAS

anyhow, lets get this party started

F41 status..

rocm 6.2 bits built now ..

pytorch build is pending.

testing of pytorch is pending

llvm18 is pending

or maybe llvm18 landed today and we need to rebuild the world again.

I make an update to pull rccl into f41

but it's frozen now

I was going to rebuild the rocm-compiler into the sidetag with clang18 and ping the owners

thanks to Jeremy Newton and tflink for filling in while i was on vacation last week.

which llvm18 package is still missing?

maybe ALL of them.. maybe it landed yesterday ?

https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=2517176

that landed over a month ago

and when did clang18 land ?

etc.

a day later

ok, maybe i am confused, i talked to tom s. about this and afaik it was still pending as of last week

llvm19 hasn't landed yet, maybe that's what he thought you were asking about?

llvm -> 19 means old llvm-> llvm18

in the past, yes but we complained about it and they made the compat packages early

for the moment, llvm and llvm18 will give you the same version of llvm

for f41 and rawhide, anyways

Sorry was distracted, I'm waiting on this:

https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2024-f5e7321651

huh. I forgot about bodhi for rawhide

RIght now I'm using the non-compat package, and it could break once llvm bumps to 19

rawhide is 42

I'm talking about 41

yeah but that update was rawhide when it was submitted

why was it left in testing for a month?

questions for the llvm folks but that pretty much defeats the purpose of doing the compat packages early

my understanding is there were problems building clang18 with clang18 and needed to build with clang19

so llvm19 / compat llvm18 is an issue. i noted this in the change proposal. the effect if it is similar to F40 is a week or two fixing compat issues and a week or two rebuilding rocm.

Well either way, I'm just sitting on my hands waiting for them to do something

I can fix it once it lands

right.

hopefully it won't be as bad as f40 but yeah, this is why we objected to the late llvm. I thought it was handled but I was just looking at koji

well I'm ok with late llvm as long as they can get the compat built early

not having it land post freeze is not even remotely acceptable

not having it land pre freeze is not even remotely acceptable

yeah, I plan to start complaining

I mean we can have both llvm 18 (not compat) and llvm18 going at the same time

it won't do anything for f41 but this always landing after beta (and frequently during beta freeze) is a problem, IMHO

anyhow, is there more to discuss here for the moment?

Is pytorch good?

it sounded like pytorch was waiting on hipblaslt and a rebuild

the hipbaslt update should have fixed the problem i am seeing. but the rawhide pytorch is still building. if freeze happened. the f41 will have to wait.

and building != testing.

yeah, beta freeze started on tuesday

there is a 2.4 pytorch in 41 so on paper we look good.

did you make a bodhi update?

but that's only on paper, that build was pre 6.2

Nvm 2.4 is in f41

last time I tried it, f41's pytorch didn't install properly but there is a build there

but it sounds like the status is mostly "sitting on hands until the llvm18 compat packages land"

😂

there is also python 3.13 not being finished.

testing depends on python-dill.

and last i looked that was one of the busted packages

python 3.13 breaks maybe a couple of the torch* packages. i have not had bandwidth to check.

is 3.13 still not in f41?

I did a little poking at torchvision this week, it seemed to work

if so sounds like we should ask the fesco to delay f41

3.13 is it just doesn't have some packages last i checked.

my guess is there are always some packages that fall on the floor with a python update

we do have another topic for today unless there is more F41 stuff to talk about

I guess one thing I forgot to add about llvm, they really ought to have llvm18 in rawhide regardless of f41 status

just my 2 cents

yeah, I'm not sure why the update was just left to rot in testing for a month

probably waiting for f41 branch and then forgotten

anyway go ahead if there's another topic

davdunc, amita (not sure what her username is on matrix) you around?

i didn't manage to document anything more about this 🤦

i could write something up quickly (a few minutes right now) to propose some implementation and testing constraints

david or amita put this on the agenda, I assume they have something to discuss

but if they're not here, I'm not sure there's anything to say

!hi

Mohammadreza Hendiani (man2dev)

any other topics that folks want to bring up?

* chat bot that can answer questions about fedora, contributor policies, project history, and general documentation search

* stretch goal: add all manual pages and be able to answer questions about specific commands/programs

Requirement:

* instructlab based implementation

here are my initial thoughts about the chatbot:

Implement:

* define questions that can be easily answered in the documentation hosted at https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/docs/

* fully open source base model

* fine tuning used as the technique

* runnable via podman desktop AI lab

Testing:

Tim did you find out what the gitlab problem was?

That prevented me from making branch

sorry, didn't realize that you were typing

!undo

ah, this meetbot can't do undo

!hi

David Duncan (davdunc) - he / him / his

sorry I was not available originally.

davdunc: did you have something specific about the proposal that you wanted to discuss

Amita and I worked at Flock to put together a submission for council.

If Approved, I was thinking that maybe we can have information from other sources added as well. For example, the arch/gentoo wiki and what have you, which are a great resource. However, these information need to be naturally cleaned up and tagged with proper metadata so it's not an easy task. Or the dataset won't be of much help

It's ready.

yes, i would suggest adding more information as we go. i wanted to limit the test if this is going to actually work and be useful to fedora only stuff that we know we have ... and have license to use :-)

I think we're talking about 2 separate but not unrelated things ATM

stopping.

AFAIK, amita and david's proposal is separate from the one that daMaestro brought up last time

it is and I am happy to merge efforts.

I'm not saying we can't talk about the proposal from last time but that's not what's on the agenda and we have 10 minutes left. I propose we hear what davdunc has to say about the proposal that he and amita worked on and we can talk about potentially combining them outside of the meeting

Our efforts were specifically around building a community project

daMaestro: sorry for making you feel like you had to put something together suddenly

and ensuring that we have the framework for a council proposal.

Did anyone even do a discussion topic about this on discourse? or on mastodon? or consult legal about this at all? as discussed in the last meeting.

davdunc: is the proposal public somewhere?

in process, AFAIK. it's not terribly far along, though

Amita shared it as a google doc, but I can drop it on discussions or the wiki.

I think that will get it to you.

kalso, there are currently 2 proposals. neither were aware of eachother until now

if it's created with a @redhat.com link you can't make it available to everyone - you have to allow access one person at a time

for reasons that are not entirely clear to me but it's bitten me in the past

The point was that before anyone proceeding with the chatbot, we should get community feedback and see if it's okay to even use these datasets by legal.

if it's created with a @redhat.com account you can't make it available to everyone - you have to allow access one person at a time

tflink: I will move to the wiki.

also.. i don't know how much time i can dedicate to driving this... i'd just like to see something like it be prototyped -- so combining or just going with a different proposal will not offend :-)

I don't mind driving daMaestro if you are willing to participate.

agreed. I don't think that anyone is proposing to go cowboy on this but a proposal is probably the best place to start and then the other questions about legality etc. can be addressed

absolutely not.

Python 3.13.0rc1 is what is in the f41 compose as of the last iso produced

this is from the last topic of F41 status

ah, chaos :)

sure, consider my contributions driveby, testing, and opinion (and any help with packaging that i can muster after tackling the rust pile-o-work i have for myself unrelated)

sorry re: meeting etiquette -- my bad

it sounds like it'd be good for the interested folks to chat about the two proposals and see where there is overlap and where they could work together

we were proposing the project and oversight over individual responsibility so that we can build a strong product delivery

definitely.

tflink: definitely.

as I understand them, they are not identical but I only skimmed amita's document earlier today so I am likely missing something

we can find the common ground and help it from there.

since we're out of time for this week, how about we come back to this in 2 weeks at the next meeting

I don't see an objection, so we can move on to

!open floor

anything else that needs to be brought up now and can't wait for the next meeting?

thanks tflink

ping me in the main channel for packaging stuff

i can be a review buddy for anything that is blocking us :-)

ok, thanks for coming everyone