2025-01-15 16:30:54 <@siosm:matrix.org> !startmeeting fedora_coreos_meeting
2025-01-15 16:30:57 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-01-15 16:30:54 UTC
2025-01-15 16:30:58 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fedora_coreos_meeting'
2025-01-15 16:31:03 <@siosm:matrix.org> !topic roll call
2025-01-15 16:31:39 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> !hi
2025-01-15 16:31:41 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Dusty Mabe (dustymabe) - he / him / his
2025-01-15 16:32:00 <@hricky:fedora.im> !hi
2025-01-15 16:32:02 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Hristo Marinov (hricky) - he / him / his
2025-01-15 16:32:03 <@siosm:matrix.org> !hi
2025-01-15 16:32:05 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Timothée Ravier (siosm) - he / him / his
2025-01-15 16:32:28 <@romanepo:fedora.im> Please share meeting URL
2025-01-15 16:33:34 <@siosm:matrix.org> Roman Epo: There is not meeting URL, the meeting is happening here on Matrix
2025-01-15 16:33:44 <@siosm:matrix.org> Roman Epo: There is no meeting URL, the meeting is happening here on Matrix
2025-01-15 16:33:50 <@apiaseck:matrix.org> !hi
2025-01-15 16:33:52 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Adam Piasecki (c4rt0) - he / him / his
2025-01-15 16:33:53 <@siosm:matrix.org> Roman Epo: There is no meeting URL, the meeting is happening here in this Matrix channel
2025-01-15 16:34:13 <@mnguyen:fedora.im> !hi mnguyen
2025-01-15 16:34:14 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Roman Epo: In other words.. you are in the meeting.. Welcome! 
2025-01-15 16:34:16 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michael Nguyen (mnguyen)
2025-01-15 16:34:57 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !hi
2025-01-15 16:34:59 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jean-Baptiste Trystram (jbtrystram) - he / him / his
2025-01-15 16:35:17 <@siosm:matrix.org> !topic Action items from last meeting
2025-01-15 16:35:23 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-coreos-community-meeting-minutes-2025-01-08/141819
2025-01-15 16:35:36 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info there are no actions from last meeting
2025-01-15 16:36:08 <@siosm:matrix.org> !topic tracker: Fedora 42 changes considerations
2025-01-15 16:36:36 <@siosm:matrix.org> Thanks marmijo for the update. Let's go over the new ones
2025-01-15 16:37:30 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 116: KTLS implementation for GnuTLS
2025-01-15 16:37:37 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/KTLSSupportForGnuTLS
2025-01-15 16:38:58 <@siosm:matrix.org> The change explicitly notes that it will be disabled by default, it should not impact us
2025-01-15 16:39:03 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> seems like originally this was going to be enabled by default 
2025-01-15 16:39:25 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> right. I wonder if they will later switch back to the original plan of enabling by default if the feature exists 
2025-01-15 16:39:32 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> either way: should not impact us 
2025-01-15 16:40:31 <@siosm:matrix.org> even if they switch to enabled, I don't think we will have to take any action
2025-01-15 16:40:39 <@siosm:matrix.org> maybe document disabling/enabling
2025-01-15 16:41:14 <@jlebon:fedora.im> !hello
2025-01-15 16:41:16 <@zodbot:fedora.im> None (jlebon)
2025-01-15 16:41:27 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info RPM Support For Systemd Sysusers.d
2025-01-15 16:41:30 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RPMSuportForSystemdSysusers
2025-01-15 16:43:07 <@siosm:matrix.org> Hopefully this one is transparent to us as well but we will have to watch out for fallouts in composes when this lands in rawhide
2025-01-15 16:44:43 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> do we have any RPMs that would need updating? 
2025-01-15 16:46:08 <@siosm:matrix.org> we might have to update zincati
2025-01-15 16:46:19 <@siosm:matrix.org> It's not clear to me what changes have to be done for this one
2025-01-15 16:47:20 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> is zincati the only user we create for all of our related coreos software? if so should we open an issue there to do any needed migration? 
2025-01-15 16:47:50 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I know us changing our RPM wouldn't be required for this change, but would be nice to get on board and not forget later.
2025-01-15 16:48:32 <@siosm:matrix.org> Details are in https://github.com/rpm-software-management/rpm/blob/master/docs/manual/users_and_groups.md#users-and-groups%7C
2025-01-15 16:48:50 <@siosm:matrix.org> Let's open an issue to track it
2025-01-15 16:49:03 <@siosm:matrix.org> (i'll do it)
2025-01-15 16:49:20 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 118 Automated onboarding to Packit release automation for new packages
2025-01-15 16:49:26 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AutomatedPackitOnboarding
2025-01-15 16:49:41 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> !action travier to open zincati issue to track migrating to sysusers.d in RPM
2025-01-15 16:49:51 <@siosm:matrix.org> We are already in the process of on-boarding our packages to packit so there is nothing more to do.
2025-01-15 16:49:58 <@jlebon:fedora.im> dustymabe: offhand, i can't think of another package where we ship a separate user
2025-01-15 16:50:14 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 👍️ - I know we had started the process. 
2025-01-15 16:50:39 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 119 Golang 1.24
2025-01-15 16:50:44 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/golang1.24
2025-01-15 16:51:13 <@siosm:matrix.org> We generally mostly keep up with golang versions upstream so that should be fine
2025-01-15 16:51:20 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 1.23 is in `rawhide` right now - so the change hasn't landed yet
2025-01-15 16:51:51 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 120. Tcl/Tk 9.0
2025-01-15 16:51:57 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/TclTk9.0
2025-01-15 16:52:32 <@siosm:matrix.org> We don't ship that so should not be impacted
2025-01-15 16:52:59 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 121 Managing expired PGP keys in DNF5
2025-01-15 16:53:03 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Dnf5ExpiredPGPKeys
2025-01-15 16:54:07 <@siosm:matrix.org> That should not impact us
2025-01-15 16:54:48 <@siosm:matrix.org> I asked in https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/f42-change-proposal-dnf5-expired-keys-system-wide/138978/4 about removing the old keys
2025-01-15 16:54:51 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> hmm
2025-01-15 16:55:22 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I wonder why we couldn't just have keys managed by RPMs themselves?
2025-01-15 16:55:34 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> i.e. they are just files on the system and they are dynamically loaded
2025-01-15 16:55:54 <@siosm:matrix.org> you need them before installing the RPM usually
2025-01-15 16:56:00 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> so if we wanted to obsolete a key then the file would just stop being delivered by the owning RPM
2025-01-15 16:56:02 <@siosm:matrix.org> it's a chicken egg issue
2025-01-15 16:56:18 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> ehh, I think the installer would handle that (as it does today) 
2025-01-15 16:56:58 <@siosm:matrix.org> it's the same issue when you ship repo files as part of an RPM: https://rpmfusion.org/Howto/OSTree?highlight=%28%5CbCategoryHowto%5Cb%29
2025-01-15 16:57:52 <@siosm:matrix.org> Not sure I understand. Are you thinking about Anaconda?
2025-01-15 16:58:06 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> What's the problem that rpmfusion link is supposed to highlight? 
2025-01-15 16:58:22 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> travier: yeah, anaconda, or whatever you are using to install your system?
2025-01-15 16:59:34 <@siosm:matrix.org> if you ship the keys needed to validate the signature of an RPM inside the RPM that you are trying to validate then you can not validate it without either parsing the (for now) untrusted RPM or installing the keys from another process
2025-01-15 16:59:39 <@jlebon:fedora.im> dustymabe: worth mentioning there's a delta here AFAIK between how dnf and rpm-ostree work. you're right for rpm-ostree, but for dnf the keys get imported into the rpmdb
2025-01-15 16:59:40 <@siosm:matrix.org> it's the same with the repo configs
2025-01-15 17:00:22 <@jlebon:fedora.im> rpm-ostree notably currently imports all the keys in `/etc/pki/rpm-gpg` (but not into the rpmdb)
2025-01-15 17:00:31 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Jonathan Lebon: right. there is a differing behavior between rpm-ostree and dnf, but I think dnf could behave differently and then the more elegant solution could win
2025-01-15 17:01:08 <@siosm:matrix.org> overall this should not impact us so let's skip this one? (we can discuss this point async?)
2025-01-15 17:01:09 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> right, but this is how all installers work.. you start with a blank filesystem and you `--installroot` into it from an environment that is able to verify the signatures 
2025-01-15 17:01:29 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> agree. sorry for going down the rabbit hole on this one
2025-01-15 17:01:43 <@siosm:matrix.org> 👍️
2025-01-15 17:02:06 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 122 LLVM 20
2025-01-15 17:02:13 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LLVM-20
2025-01-15 17:02:27 <@siosm:matrix.org> General update that should not impact us
2025-01-15 17:02:34 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> +1 
2025-01-15 17:02:46 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 123 Firewalld IPv6_rpfilter default to loose on Workstations
2025-01-15 17:02:53 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Firewalld_IPv6_rpfilter_Default_Loose
2025-01-15 17:03:10 <@siosm:matrix.org> This is for the Workstation edition only apparently and we don't ship firewalld
2025-01-15 17:04:11 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 124 GNU Toolchain Update (gcc 15, binutils 2.44, glibc 2.41, gdb 15+)
2025-01-15 17:04:16 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/GNUToolchainF42
2025-01-15 17:04:28 <@siosm:matrix.org> General toolchain update that should not be an issue
2025-01-15 17:05:02 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 218 Fedora COSMIC Spin
2025-01-15 17:05:06 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FedoraCOSMIC
2025-01-15 17:05:16 <@siosm:matrix.org> A new Spin, should not impact us
2025-01-15 17:06:12 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 219 Retire python3.8
2025-01-15 17:06:18 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RetirePython3.8
2025-01-15 17:07:08 <@siosm:matrix.org> We don't (yet) ship Python :)
2025-01-15 17:07:22 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 220 Deprecate gtk3-rs
2025-01-15 17:07:29 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Deprecate_gtk3-rs
2025-01-15 17:07:35 <@siosm:matrix.org> We don't ship those packages
2025-01-15 17:07:49 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 221 Intel Compute Runtime - Upgrade with HW cut-off
2025-01-15 17:08:01 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/IntelCompute2025
2025-01-15 17:09:09 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I think this one got some publicity when it was originally proposed
2025-01-15 17:09:32 <@siosm:matrix.org> I don't see a list of packages so I don't know if we are impacted
2025-01-15 17:10:27 <@romanepo:matrix.org> is this meeting room ?
2025-01-15 17:11:15 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Without understanding this ecosystem more it's hard to understand what is really impacted, but if I parse the tea leaves a bit I think GPU (like driving monitor/VGA/HDMI output) isn't being affected, but what is is a library/framework (openCL) to run GPU workloads on those GPU cards.
2025-01-15 17:11:27 <@jlebon:fedora.im> it'd be intel-compute-runtime. FCOS doesn't ship it
2025-01-15 17:11:47 <@siosm:matrix.org> +1
2025-01-15 17:11:53 <@siosm:matrix.org> to jlebon
2025-01-15 17:12:01 <@jlebon:fedora.im> dustymabe: that's my understanding as well
2025-01-15 17:12:46 <@siosm:matrix.org> From my understanding, one should be able to run a previous version from a container
2025-01-15 17:13:05 <@siosm:matrix.org> so I would vote for "not impacting us directly"
2025-01-15 17:13:36 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 222 Stop building Atomic Desktops for PPC64LE
2025-01-15 17:13:40 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AtomicDesktopsNoPpc64le
2025-01-15 17:14:01 <@siosm:matrix.org> This is only for Atomic Desktops so should not impact us
2025-01-15 17:14:13 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 223 Remove pam-ssh-agent component
2025-01-15 17:14:19 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remove_pam-ssh-agent_component
2025-01-15 17:14:26 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remove_pam-ssh-agent_component
2025-01-15 17:15:13 <@siosm:matrix.org> We don't ship the package but I'm wondering about those who layer it
2025-01-15 17:15:54 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> travier: i.e. if there are any that do layer it? 
2025-01-15 17:16:07 <@siosm:matrix.org> yeah, what happens for those folks
2025-01-15 17:16:39 <@jlebon:fedora.im> huh, hadn't heard of this before
2025-01-15 17:16:49 <@jlebon:fedora.im> they would not be able to upgrade until they unlayer it
2025-01-15 17:16:50 <@siosm:matrix.org> we might want to mention it in our F42 release notes?
2025-01-15 17:17:04 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> travier: I think it's kind of out of our control - i'm sure it's happened before where packages go away on major updates 
2025-01-15 17:17:44 <@siosm:matrix.org> sure, it's a bit like the other packages potentially layered where we added a note
2025-01-15 17:17:52 <@siosm:matrix.org> not saying that we should do more
2025-01-15 17:18:25 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info Let's add a short note to our F43 release notes for this one
2025-01-15 17:18:39 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 224 Create Fedora Windows Subsystem for Linux Images
2025-01-15 17:18:48 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FedoraWSL
2025-01-15 17:19:43 <@siosm:matrix.org> Should not impact us
2025-01-15 17:20:06 <@siosm:matrix.org> That's it
2025-01-15 17:20:22 <@siosm:matrix.org> We have https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1823 on the agenda but we are short on time
2025-01-15 17:20:41 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> We need to create the F43 communications tracker issue and then we can add this as a comment in there so we don't forget. 
2025-01-15 17:20:49 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> We need to create the F42 communications tracker issue and then we can add this as a comment in there so we don't forget. 
2025-01-15 17:21:45 <@siosm:matrix.org> Let's keep https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1823  for next week and move to open floor?
2025-01-15 17:22:33 <@jlebon:fedora.im> sounds good. probably by then, it'll have been announced anyway so it'll show up in the other tracker :)
2025-01-15 17:22:33 <@siosm:matrix.org> If folks are interested, taking a look at the change request and discussing it there would be appreciated!
2025-01-15 17:23:14 <@siosm:matrix.org> (only accepted changes are in the tracker :))
2025-01-15 17:23:50 <@siosm:matrix.org> !topic Open Floor
2025-01-15 17:23:55 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Do we have any updates on https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1829 - should we close it?
2025-01-15 17:24:27 <@siosm:matrix.org> We will be doing a talk with Allison on the work related to composefs
2025-01-15 17:25:21 <@siosm:matrix.org> https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5191--signed-sealed-and-delivered-with-ukis-and-composefs/
2025-01-15 17:26:37 <@siosm:matrix.org> Make sure to reach out to me if you want to chat at FOSDEM!
2025-01-15 17:27:40 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> I have to drop. Thanks everyone ! 
2025-01-15 17:28:27 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Thanks travier - thanks all! 
2025-01-15 17:30:33 <@siosm:matrix.org> !endmeeting