2024-01-18 16:04:32 <@davdunc:fedora.im> !startmeeting fedora_cloud_meeting
2024-01-18 16:04:32 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-01-18 16:04:32 UTC
2024-01-18 16:04:32 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fedora_cloud_meeting'
2024-01-18 16:04:46 <@davdunc:fedora.im> !topic roll call
2024-01-18 16:06:07 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> !hi
2024-01-18 16:06:10 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Dusty Mabe (dustymabe) - he / him / his
2024-01-18 16:06:33 <@davdunc:fedora.im> hey dustymabe I am in a meeting with the Business Unit right now. 
2024-01-18 16:06:41 <@davdunc:fedora.im> so I am pretty distracted. 
2024-01-18 16:06:44 <@mhayden:fedora.im> !hi
2024-01-18 16:06:45 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Major Hayden (mhayden) - he / him / his
2024-01-18 16:06:52 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2024-01-18 16:06:53 <@davdunc:fedora.im> hey mhayden ! 
2024-01-18 16:06:54 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2024-01-18 16:07:00 <@mhayden:fedora.im> wheeee 🎉
2024-01-18 16:07:06 <@davdunc:fedora.im> 👋 Conan Kudo 
2024-01-18 16:07:13 <@mhayden:fedora.im> whoa, i got confetti for some reason
2024-01-18 16:07:16 <@mhayden:fedora.im> 🎉
2024-01-18 16:07:19 <@davdunc:fedora.im> awesome. 
2024-01-18 16:07:36 <@davdunc:fedora.im> I didn't see any. 
2024-01-18 16:07:46 <@mhayden:fedora.im> 😭
2024-01-18 16:08:04 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Tell "Business Unit" I said hi! 👋
2024-01-18 16:08:24 <@davdunc:fedora.im> I will! 
2024-01-18 16:09:22 <@davdunc:fedora.im> I have some things on the map that we need to share in from the Fedora Cloud and FCOS sides 
2024-01-18 16:10:56 <@davdunc:fedora.im> !topic Action items from last meeting
2024-01-18 16:11:34 <@davdunc:fedora.im> I don't see our last meeting notes in meetbot. let me go dig them out of the mailing list. 
2024-01-18 16:13:29 <@davdunc:fedora.im> hmm. 
2024-01-18 16:13:35 <@davdunc:fedora.im> okay well. 
2024-01-18 16:13:36 <@davdunc:fedora.im> * reserve 20% of hackfest time for working on documentation 
* include dnf5 plugin for cloud builds 
2024-01-18 16:14:09 <@davdunc:fedora.im> we don't need the dnf5 thing any longer. 
2024-01-18 16:15:36 <@davdunc:fedora.im> Conan Kudo and I worked last Saturday to get the kiwi descriptions completed for the SIGs. 
2024-01-18 16:16:03 <@davdunc:fedora.im> !topic Kiwi for Cloud Edition Images CP
2024-01-18 16:16:09 <@davdunc:fedora.im> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/f40-change-proposal-build-fedora-cloud-edition-images-using-kiwi-in-koji-system-wide/100078?page=2
2024-01-18 16:16:09 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> they are not tested yet, but are a reasonable first pass
2024-01-18 16:16:51 <@davdunc:fedora.im> This supported the work that we did here to ensure that for 41, we are ready to help retire imagefactory altogether. 
2024-01-18 16:17:22 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yup
2024-01-18 16:18:15 <@davdunc:fedora.im> Thanks to nirik for helping us identify just how deeply that would reach. 
2024-01-18 16:19:04 <@davdunc:fedora.im> absolutely we will and we'll do it together. 
2024-01-18 16:19:58 <@davdunc:fedora.im> !link https://github.com/osbuild/osbuild/issues/27 just want to make sure that everyone is aware that this is not abandoning working with the osbuild team. 
2024-01-18 16:21:44 <@davdunc:fedora.im> dustymabe: I have been watching what you have complteed for ostree support and I look forward to learning from your experience there. 
2024-01-18 16:22:29 <@davdunc:fedora.im> !topic XCP-NG images 
2024-01-18 16:22:33 <@davdunc:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/cloud-sig/issue/413
2024-01-18 16:22:48 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> !hi
2024-01-18 16:22:49 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
2024-01-18 16:23:04 <@davdunc:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon 👋
2024-01-18 16:23:10 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> (XCP-NG summoned me :P )
2024-01-18 16:23:13 <@davdunc:fedora.im> haha. 
2024-01-18 16:23:17 <@davdunc:fedora.im> awesome. 
2024-01-18 16:23:26 <@davdunc:fedora.im> So I don't see a problem with creating the images. 
2024-01-18 16:23:41 <@davdunc:fedora.im> Conan Kudo: do we have any blockers for adding these to our build? 
2024-01-18 16:24:00 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we need a working XCP-NG and XOA deployment to test things with
2024-01-18 16:24:03 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> yeah the only thing that are needed additionally should be the guest tools
2024-01-18 16:24:07 <@davdunc:fedora.im> I mean. . . beyond the proposal we just discussed. :) 
2024-01-18 16:24:12 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it's a Xen based environment, which we don't really have a lot of those
2024-01-18 16:24:23 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> I have one I can test using, fwiw
2024-01-18 16:24:28 <@davdunc:fedora.im> but like Neil Hanlon said, we just need the guest tools. 
2024-01-18 16:24:28 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and I guess yeah the guest tools for XCP are needed in Fedora
2024-01-18 16:24:47 <@davdunc:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon: are you building the tools. 
2024-01-18 16:25:08 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> xcp-ng also has a cloud offering; I know their folks and can ask if they'd be willing to donate some vms or so
2024-01-18 16:25:56 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> not presently, but I have in the past -- https://github.com/xenserver/xe-guest-utilities
2024-01-18 16:26:12 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> though apparently they're in golang now lol
2024-01-18 16:26:14 <@davdunc:fedora.im> well, if we have the tools that would be great. 
2024-01-18 16:26:18 <@davdunc:fedora.im> ugh! 
2024-01-18 16:26:34 <@davdunc:fedora.im> I like golang like nirik likes xml. 
2024-01-18 16:26:44 <@davdunc:fedora.im> :) 
2024-01-18 16:26:55 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> :D
2024-01-18 16:27:06 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> har
2024-01-18 16:27:17 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> there's also https://gitlab.com/xen-project/xen-guest-agent/ which is apparently the (new) one
2024-01-18 16:27:18 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> are these the ones that XCP ships?
2024-01-18 16:27:22 <@davdunc:fedora.im> we have the xe-guest-agent. 
2024-01-18 16:27:22 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> which is... rust! 
2024-01-18 16:27:23 <@davdunc:fedora.im> yea. 
2024-01-18 16:27:24 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> 😂
2024-01-18 16:27:37 <@davdunc:fedora.im> the thot plickens. 
2024-01-18 16:27:44 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> uhh who does an AGPL rust binary?!
2024-01-18 16:27:44 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> but this one has a spec https://gitlab.com/xen-project/xen-guest-agent/-/blob/main/xen-guest-agent.spec.in?ref_type=heads
2024-01-18 16:27:52 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> Citrix...
2024-01-18 16:27:55 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> that spec file is useless
2024-01-18 16:27:57 <@davdunc:fedora.im> LOL
2024-01-18 16:28:00 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it doesn't build anything
2024-01-18 16:28:10 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> oh, didn't even look at the contents lol
2024-01-18 16:28:17 <@davdunc:fedora.im> I see a link
2024-01-18 16:28:20 <@davdunc:fedora.im> !link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-coreos-xentools-installation-for-xenserver-vms-dummy-mode/21337
2024-01-18 16:28:37 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> the xen-guest-utilities (go) are the ones XCP-NG ship
2024-01-18 16:28:38 <@davdunc:fedora.im> where @lucab did the work to get it on FCOS
2024-01-18 16:29:21 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> then I'm going to say we can ignore this rust thingy
2024-01-18 16:29:34 <@davdunc:fedora.im> so mhayden did we ever create an RPM group for the cloud RPMs? 
2024-01-18 16:29:56 <@mhayden:fedora.im> hmm, i thought we opened a ticker for that 🤔
2024-01-18 16:30:03 <@davdunc:fedora.im> I remember that happening. 
2024-01-18 16:30:15 <@davdunc:fedora.im> I just don't know if we ahve a group. 
2024-01-18 16:30:50 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> cloud-sig fas group should exist already, no?
2024-01-18 16:30:53 <@mhayden:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/11307
2024-01-18 16:30:54 <@davdunc:fedora.im> This would be a great asset to include in that . . . also the gcloud tools work that could use some attention... also ec2-hibernat. 
2024-01-18 16:31:14 <@davdunc:fedora.im> ah 
2024-01-18 16:31:16 <@davdunc:fedora.im> awesome. 
2024-01-18 16:31:22 <@mhayden:fedora.im> https://src.fedoraproject.org/group/cloud-sig
2024-01-18 16:31:28 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> https://accounts.fedoraproject.org/group/cloud-sig/
2024-01-18 16:31:30 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah it exists
2024-01-18 16:31:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we just need to start adding stuff to it in src.fedoraproject.org
2024-01-18 16:32:04 <@davdunc:fedora.im> all it needs is members. :) 
2024-01-18 16:32:30 <@davdunc:fedora.im> ack! 
2024-01-18 16:32:41 <@davdunc:fedora.im> oh! it has members. 
2024-01-18 16:32:56 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah it has us
2024-01-18 16:33:09 <@davdunc:fedora.im> okay awesome. 
2024-01-18 16:33:53 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we should start adding cloud-sig as admin to the packages
2024-01-18 16:34:00 <@davdunc:fedora.im> I like it. 
2024-01-18 16:34:45 <@davdunc:fedora.im> okay, so now . . . can someone check to verify that we _don't_ have the tools packaged like we expect? 
2024-01-18 16:35:26 <@davdunc:fedora.im> Do we need to make this a new image? 
2024-01-18 16:35:55 <@davdunc:fedora.im> Or just add this to the cloud-edition base? 
2024-01-18 16:38:03 <@davdunc:fedora.im> ah. 
2024-01-18 16:38:18 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> davdunc: we'll want to make a new image for Xen guests
2024-01-18 16:38:20 <@davdunc:fedora.im> nirik when you come back, let us know. we'll jump on it. 
2024-01-18 16:38:28 <@davdunc:fedora.im> Conan Kudo: got it. 
2024-01-18 16:38:38 <@davdunc:fedora.im> so we need a definition for the Xen guest. 
2024-01-18 16:38:48 <@davdunc:fedora.im> I don't see the guest tools. 
2024-01-18 16:39:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we could put it into the main genericcloud one instead depending on how simple it is
2024-01-18 16:39:26 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> if it's simple enough we don't need a separate image, but if it requires things like kernel commandline changes, it needs a different image
2024-01-18 16:39:40 <@davdunc:fedora.im> ack. 
2024-01-18 16:40:16 <@davdunc:fedora.im> okay... let's make an inventory for the packages we need and then add it to the ticket. I need to know what we are missing so that we can get that in for a package review. 
2024-01-18 16:40:38 <@davdunc:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon: are you doing the work now? Can you provide details on the process? 
2024-01-18 16:42:53 <@davdunc:fedora.im> yea. let's look at what we have to do to support the XCP-NG and what we have to do to test it. 
2024-01-18 16:43:07 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> Yeah, i can provide the details in the ticket
2024-01-18 16:44:01 <@davdunc:fedora.im> awesome. Thanks! 
2024-01-18 16:44:07 <@davdunc:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon++
2024-01-18 16:44:08 <@zodbot:fedora.im> davdunc gave a cookie to neil. They now have 3 cookies, 3 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle
2024-01-18 16:45:11 <@davdunc:fedora.im> !action Neil Hanlon to provide details for building the test plan for images. 
2024-01-18 16:45:34 <@davdunc:fedora.im> !action Neil Hanlon to provide details for building the test image he is using now. 
2024-01-18 16:47:07 <@davdunc:fedora.im> okay. 
2024-01-18 16:48:27 <@davdunc:fedora.im> I think we have a plan here. Neil, we'll keep this on the meeting list for next meeting so that we can determine if we are going to make this a part of the base image or create a custom image. 
2024-01-18 16:48:49 <@davdunc:fedora.im> nirik: are you back? 
2024-01-18 16:49:22 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> Great, sounds like a plan. I don't think there are any reasons it couldn't be part of the base image, but, will update the ticket accordingly 
2024-01-18 16:49:46 <@davdunc:fedora.im> sounds good. Add your $0.02 to the options. 
2024-01-18 16:49:57 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> will do, but I only have a penny
2024-01-18 16:50:03 <@davdunc:fedora.im> hah! 
2024-01-18 16:50:27 <@davdunc:fedora.im> that's the "no-soft landing" economic view. :) 
2024-01-18 16:50:59 <@davdunc:fedora.im> !topic RHEL7 EOL is 2024-06-30... fedimg currently runs on a rhel7 vm
2024-01-18 16:51:17 <@davdunc:fedora.im> all good. 
2024-01-18 16:51:46 <@davdunc:fedora.im> I am double-duty participating in a pricing discussion, so ... i hear you nirik 
2024-01-18 16:53:05 <@davdunc:fedora.im> so we want to dig into this ... we don't want to be using imagefactory ourselves and I think that we the cloud team, especially Conan Kudo and myself, are dedicated to help the other teams move away from it. 
2024-01-18 16:54:03 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> well, I don't know that this has much to do with imagefactory, or are we going back to a previous discussion?
2024-01-18 16:54:05 <@davdunc:fedora.im> and I think that the clear path in the fedora way is to prioritize osbuild for the move, but support what can't be supported by osbuild today by using kiwi. 
2024-01-18 16:54:26 <@davdunc:fedora.im> oh! 
2024-01-18 16:54:30 <@davdunc:fedora.im> you are so right. 
2024-01-18 16:54:40 <@davdunc:fedora.im> okay. 
2024-01-18 16:54:49 <@davdunc:fedora.im> switching back to the _real_ discussion. 
2024-01-18 16:55:20 <@davdunc:fedora.im> I have been working on some natively supported Ansible for the cloud image management. 
2024-01-18 16:55:32 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> sure, so for this discussion... I'm fine with the f40 plan... it's another thing, but fine... for f41... thats many months away and we will see where we stand then. I definitely want to kill imagefactory, but not sure if by the time we need to decide it's moving to kiwi or osbuild.
2024-01-18 16:55:45 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> great!
2024-01-18 16:56:37 <@davdunc:fedora.im> ah. I think that the osbuild team has some prioritization on preventing mutability of images in a way that is antithetical to how we want to promote experimentation. 
2024-01-18 16:57:30 <@davdunc:fedora.im> so we are probably looking at kiwi for _some_ of the images even after migrating the cloud edition base to osbuild. 
2024-01-18 16:57:43 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> presuming we even do that
2024-01-18 16:57:45 <@davdunc:fedora.im> which we will do as we can support the btrfs partitioning etc. 
2024-01-18 16:58:02 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> lets have this conversation in 6 months. ;)
2024-01-18 16:58:06 <@davdunc:fedora.im> okay.. so we will discuss and consider as we can support the btrfs partitioning. ;) 
2024-01-18 16:58:15 <@davdunc:fedora.im> okay. 
2024-01-18 16:58:33 <@davdunc:fedora.im> nirik: I'll put it on the calendar. 
2024-01-18 16:59:35 <@davdunc:fedora.im> so ... somebody want to redirect so that we are talking about the right topic... 
2024-01-18 16:59:36 <@davdunc:fedora.im> ? 
2024-01-18 16:59:54 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I just wanted to bring up fedimg needing replacing. ;)
2024-01-18 17:00:00 <@davdunc:fedora.im> okay. 
2024-01-18 17:00:13 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah we need to replace fedimg for a variety of reasons
2024-01-18 17:00:14 <@davdunc:fedora.im> @nirik, we'll add that to our considerations. 
2024-01-18 17:00:22 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Is this needing a change in fedimg? https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/11660
2024-01-18 17:00:23 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and we unfortunately don't have time to dally on that anymore
2024-01-18 17:00:24 <@davdunc:fedora.im> but for sure. 
2024-01-18 17:00:40 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yes
2024-01-18 17:00:41 <@davdunc:fedora.im> in the definitions, yes. 
2024-01-18 17:00:48 <@davdunc:fedora.im> I'll get that done this week. 
2024-01-18 17:00:54 <@davdunc:fedora.im> (before Sunday) :) 
2024-01-18 17:01:04 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> 👍
2024-01-18 17:01:23 <@davdunc:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/11660 
2024-01-18 17:01:58 <@davdunc:fedora.im> !action davdunc to updated the uefi-preferred boot method in the image definitions 
2024-01-18 17:02:07 <@davdunc:fedora.im> okay.. .
2024-01-18 17:02:11 <@davdunc:fedora.im> we are out of time. 
2024-01-18 17:02:20 <@davdunc:fedora.im> !topic open floor 
2024-01-18 17:02:26 <@davdunc:fedora.im> is there anything that can't wait? 
2024-01-18 17:02:33 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> not really
2024-01-18 17:02:45 <@davdunc:fedora.im> then thanks everyone for being here. 
2024-01-18 17:02:55 <@davdunc:fedora.im> !endmeeting