Meeting started at 2024-01-18 16:04:32 UTC

The Meeting name is 'fedora_cloud_meeting'

!hi

Dusty Mabe (dustymabe) - he / him / his

hey dustymabe I am in a meeting with the Business Unit right now.

so I am pretty distracted.

!hi

Major Hayden (mhayden) - he / him / his

!hi

hey mhayden !

Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his

wheeee 🎉

👋 Conan Kudo

whoa, i got confetti for some reason

🎉

awesome.

I didn't see any.

😭

Tell "Business Unit" I said hi! 👋

I will!

I have some things on the map that we need to share in from the Fedora Cloud and FCOS sides

I don't see our last meeting notes in meetbot. let me go dig them out of the mailing list.

hmm.

okay well.

* reserve 20% of hackfest time for working on documentation * include dnf5 plugin for cloud builds

we don't need the dnf5 thing any longer.

Conan Kudo and I worked last Saturday to get the kiwi descriptions completed for the SIGs.

https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/f40-change-proposal-build-fedora-cloud-edition-images-using-kiwi-in-koji-system-wide/100078?page=2

they are not tested yet, but are a reasonable first pass

This supported the work that we did here to ensure that for 41, we are ready to help retire imagefactory altogether.

yup

Thanks to nirik for helping us identify just how deeply that would reach.

absolutely we will and we'll do it together.

dustymabe: I have been watching what you have complteed for ostree support and I look forward to learning from your experience there.

!hi

Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his

Neil Hanlon 👋

(XCP-NG summoned me :P )

haha.

awesome.

So I don't see a problem with creating the images.

Conan Kudo: do we have any blockers for adding these to our build?

we need a working XCP-NG and XOA deployment to test things with

yeah the only thing that are needed additionally should be the guest tools

I mean. . . beyond the proposal we just discussed. :)

it's a Xen based environment, which we don't really have a lot of those

I have one I can test using, fwiw

but like Neil Hanlon said, we just need the guest tools.

and I guess yeah the guest tools for XCP are needed in Fedora

Neil Hanlon: are you building the tools.

xcp-ng also has a cloud offering; I know their folks and can ask if they'd be willing to donate some vms or so

not presently, but I have in the past -- https://github.com/xenserver/xe-guest-utilities

though apparently they're in golang now lol

well, if we have the tools that would be great.

ugh!

I like golang like nirik likes xml.

:)

:D

har

there's also https://gitlab.com/xen-project/xen-guest-agent/ which is apparently the (new) one

are these the ones that XCP ships?

we have the xe-guest-agent.

which is... rust!

yea.

😂

the thot plickens.

uhh who does an AGPL rust binary?!

but this one has a spec https://gitlab.com/xen-project/xen-guest-agent/-/blob/main/xen-guest-agent.spec.in?ref_type=heads

Citrix...

that spec file is useless

LOL

it doesn't build anything

oh, didn't even look at the contents lol

I see a link

the xen-guest-utilities (go) are the ones XCP-NG ship

where @lucab did the work to get it on FCOS

then I'm going to say we can ignore this rust thingy

so mhayden did we ever create an RPM group for the cloud RPMs?

hmm, i thought we opened a ticker for that 🤔

I remember that happening.

I just don't know if we ahve a group.

cloud-sig fas group should exist already, no?

https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/11307

This would be a great asset to include in that . . . also the gcloud tools work that could use some attention... also ec2-hibernat.

ah

awesome.

https://src.fedoraproject.org/group/cloud-sig

https://accounts.fedoraproject.org/group/cloud-sig/

yeah it exists

we just need to start adding stuff to it in src.fedoraproject.org

all it needs is members. :)

ack!

oh! it has members.

yeah it has us

okay awesome.

we should start adding cloud-sig as admin to the packages

I like it.

okay, so now . . . can someone check to verify that we _don't_ have the tools packaged like we expect?

Do we need to make this a new image?

Or just add this to the cloud-edition base?

ah.

davdunc: we'll want to make a new image for Xen guests

nirik when you come back, let us know. we'll jump on it.

Conan Kudo: got it.

so we need a definition for the Xen guest.

I don't see the guest tools.

we could put it into the main genericcloud one instead depending on how simple it is

if it's simple enough we don't need a separate image, but if it requires things like kernel commandline changes, it needs a different image

ack.

okay... let's make an inventory for the packages we need and then add it to the ticket. I need to know what we are missing so that we can get that in for a package review.

Neil Hanlon: are you doing the work now? Can you provide details on the process?

yea. let's look at what we have to do to support the XCP-NG and what we have to do to test it.

Yeah, i can provide the details in the ticket

awesome. Thanks!

Neil Hanlon++

davdunc gave a cookie to neil. They now have 3 cookies, 3 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle

okay.

I think we have a plan here. Neil, we'll keep this on the meeting list for next meeting so that we can determine if we are going to make this a part of the base image or create a custom image.

nirik: are you back?

Great, sounds like a plan. I don't think there are any reasons it couldn't be part of the base image, but, will update the ticket accordingly

sounds good. Add your $0.02 to the options.

will do, but I only have a penny

hah!

that's the "no-soft landing" economic view. :)

all good.

I am double-duty participating in a pricing discussion, so ... i hear you nirik

so we want to dig into this ... we don't want to be using imagefactory ourselves and I think that we the cloud team, especially Conan Kudo and myself, are dedicated to help the other teams move away from it.

well, I don't know that this has much to do with imagefactory, or are we going back to a previous discussion?

and I think that the clear path in the fedora way is to prioritize osbuild for the move, but support what can't be supported by osbuild today by using kiwi.

oh!

you are so right.

okay.

switching back to the _real_ discussion.

I have been working on some natively supported Ansible for the cloud image management.

sure, so for this discussion... I'm fine with the f40 plan... it's another thing, but fine... for f41... thats many months away and we will see where we stand then. I definitely want to kill imagefactory, but not sure if by the time we need to decide it's moving to kiwi or osbuild.

great!

ah. I think that the osbuild team has some prioritization on preventing mutability of images in a way that is antithetical to how we want to promote experimentation.

so we are probably looking at kiwi for _some_ of the images even after migrating the cloud edition base to osbuild.

presuming we even do that

which we will do as we can support the btrfs partitioning etc.

lets have this conversation in 6 months. ;)

okay.. so we will discuss and consider as we can support the btrfs partitioning. ;)

okay.

nirik: I'll put it on the calendar.

so ... somebody want to redirect so that we are talking about the right topic...

?

I just wanted to bring up fedimg needing replacing. ;)

okay.

yeah we need to replace fedimg for a variety of reasons

@nirik, we'll add that to our considerations.

Is this needing a change in fedimg? https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/11660

and we unfortunately don't have time to dally on that anymore

but for sure.

yes

in the definitions, yes.

I'll get that done this week.

(before Sunday) :)

👍

okay.. .

we are out of time.

is there anything that can't wait?

not really

then thanks everyone for being here.