17:10:02 <loupgaroubl0nd> #startmeeting Installing Fedora - User Track (Bert Desmet)
17:10:02 <zodbot> Meeting started Sat Dec  5 17:10:02 2009 UTC.  The chair is loupgaroubl0nd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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17:12:10 <loupgaroubl0nd> we're running a bit late here, projector issues
17:13:20 <loupgaroubl0nd> ok, projecor is on
17:14:22 <loupgaroubl0nd> Bert: I'm Bert desmet and i'm going to talk about how to install Fedora
17:14:38 <loupgaroubl0nd> Bert: I'm from belgium, a student and an Ambassador and Spins Wrangler for Fedora
17:14:45 <loupgaroubl0nd> Why we install fedora:
17:14:53 <loupgaroubl0nd> it's a free operating system, as in beer
17:14:59 <loupgaroubl0nd> but also free, as in the richard stallman way
17:15:09 <loupgaroubl0nd> you can download and edit the source code so you can change the system to your own needs
17:15:25 <loupgaroubl0nd> *Stable
17:15:28 <loupgaroubl0nd> * Secure
17:15:30 <loupgaroubl0nd> * Innovative
17:15:34 <loupgaroubl0nd> * Popular
17:15:49 <loupgaroubl0nd> it's pretty secure, with systems like SELinux and Firewall are configured quite good
17:15:58 <loupgaroubl0nd> and it does not have the normal virus issues as in windows
17:16:20 <loupgaroubl0nd> it's the second most used linux distributions
17:16:45 <loupgaroubl0nd> Yaakov: Not counting CentOS installs, we're probably number one
17:16:50 <loupgaroubl0nd> Bert:
17:16:55 <loupgaroubl0nd> about this presentation
17:16:58 <loupgaroubl0nd> * Install Methods
17:17:04 <loupgaroubl0nd> * Installation Process
17:17:07 <loupgaroubl0nd> * How to upgrade
17:17:39 <loupgaroubl0nd> You can install from Hardware, using CDs, LiveCDs, USB, or via Network installs via NFS and HTTP/FTP
17:17:47 <loupgaroubl0nd> Primarily i use tthe DVD option
17:18:09 <loupgaroubl0nd> the dvd has a few advantages, it has a big repo, no need for the network during installation, advanced install options
17:18:25 <loupgaroubl0nd> the disadvantages is that it's a big download and it's a hardway to install alot of computers
17:18:28 <loupgaroubl0nd> the LiveCD:
17:18:50 <loupgaroubl0nd> pros: you can test fedora before you install, no need for the network during an installation, smaller download than the DVD
17:18:57 <loupgaroubl0nd> it's about 650 MB in size
17:19:15 <loupgaroubl0nd> cons: not as many options during installation, and for me that's not so good, though for most users it's a good option
17:19:19 <loupgaroubl0nd> netinstall:
17:19:30 <loupgaroubl0nd> the download is small, but you have to have access to the internet for the entire install
17:19:39 <mchua> What happens if your connection is interrupted?
17:19:57 <loupgaroubl0nd> mchua, 'then you're fucked'
17:20:29 <loupgaroubl0nd> jonathan baldwin: if the server's on your local network then it's not so bad
17:20:55 <loupgaroubl0nd> yaakov: we do use netinstall via cobbler on our network
17:20:58 <loupgaroubl0nd> Bert:
17:21:17 <loupgaroubl0nd> USB installs, they are fast, very flexible, although not alot of hardware always supports it
17:21:28 <mchua> fucked as in unrecoverable mobo, or fucked as in need to restart install completely?
17:21:31 <loupgaroubl0nd> there's network installs via pxe, very flexibl
17:21:53 <loupgaroubl0nd> mchua, you just have to start over again
17:22:06 <loupgaroubl0nd> the network install is the best for alot of installs
17:22:10 <loupgaroubl0nd> so the installation
17:22:22 <loupgaroubl0nd> first you need to choose the media and get the hardware ready
17:22:27 <loupgaroubl0nd> then we'll go over the process
17:22:54 <loupgaroubl0nd> so i prefer the DVD but the LiveCD image or the USB is also an option, but i will follow the DVD install here
17:23:09 <loupgaroubl0nd> to get the images, go to http://get.fedoraproject.org/
17:23:26 <loupgaroubl0nd> #link http://get.fedoraproject.org/
17:23:36 <loupgaroubl0nd> there is also bittorrent and a few other protocols that are more advanced
17:24:02 <loupgaroubl0nd> getting the hardware ready: burning the media to CD, you can use nero on windows
17:24:24 <loupgaroubl0nd> it's also good to remove firewire and USB harddrives from the system during installation
17:24:56 <loupgaroubl0nd> to use usb sticks, you can use the livecd-iso-to-disk tool or the liveusb-creator
17:25:05 <loupgaroubl0nd> liveusb-creator is also available for windows
17:25:49 <loupgaroubl0nd> leo asks: fedora 11 or fedora 12, which would you recommend?
17:26:07 <loupgaroubl0nd> bert: fedora 12, it's more up to date, for me 12 is much more stable and mature than 11
17:26:51 <loupgaroubl0nd> leo: isn't it the other way around?
17:27:08 <loupgaroubl0nd> yaakov: because of fedora's development cycle updates start at the latest version and trickle down
17:27:23 <loupgaroubl0nd> leo: i saw some livecds, how do you upgrade it later?
17:27:55 <loupgaroubl0nd> bert: well, you can upgrade it later with yum and i hav'nt had any issues with it
17:28:06 <loupgaroubl0nd> unfortunately the fedora 12 media hasn't been pressed yet
17:28:20 <loupgaroubl0nd> yoram: you can get media from the burn station in the hallway whether the livecd version or a dvd installer
17:28:24 <loupgaroubl0nd> bert:
17:28:41 <loupgaroubl0nd> your pc, see if it has i686 or 64 bit support (most do)
17:28:47 <loupgaroubl0nd> do you have enough disk space?
17:29:22 <loupgaroubl0nd> some really old athlons can't support it anymore, but any system under 3 years old or younger should support it
17:29:43 <loupgaroubl0nd> you need about 8gb free for dualboot
17:31:20 <loupgaroubl0nd> to run through the boot process
17:31:37 <loupgaroubl0nd> first you'll see the boot screen, just choose the first option "Install or upgrade the existing system"
17:32:10 <loupgaroubl0nd> louis daly asks: i couldn't use that option on my computer, except with older versions
17:32:26 <loupgaroubl0nd> bert: it has to do with the video card, which one do you have?
17:32:45 <loupgaroubl0nd> louis: i have an ATI one
17:32:49 <loupgaroubl0nd> buti  could use the second option
17:34:27 <loupgaroubl0nd> yaakov: the second line is designed for servers, it's a simple no graphics method
17:34:45 <loupgaroubl0nd> there are also issues with video cards in sony laptops, they just cause trouble and i can't recommend them for linux compatibility
17:34:59 <loupgaroubl0nd> so the second screen you get is asking to check the media if it's valid, i normally skip that
17:36:14 <loupgaroubl0nd> brad van gennip asks, when i did the check, i had to reboot the computer anyways, so what's the point of that menue
17:36:23 <loupgaroubl0nd> yaakov: did it freeze?
17:36:29 <loupgaroubl0nd> brad: yeah, this was with fedora 10
17:36:35 <loupgaroubl0nd> yaakov: yeah, this was a bug then, it's been fixed since then
17:36:38 <loupgaroubl0nd> bert:
17:37:00 <loupgaroubl0nd> next is the language and keyboard selection, for most people you just need the english and defaults, unless you're yaakov and use a weird keyboard
17:37:12 <loupgaroubl0nd> the next screen is the hostname, for most home users it's not necessary
17:37:19 <loupgaroubl0nd> then you select the time zone
17:37:34 <loupgaroubl0nd> here, do not use UTC if you use windows, it will mess up the time everytime you reboot
17:37:50 <loupgaroubl0nd> if you click on the map, it will zoom in a bit so you can select a city near where you live
17:37:59 <loupgaroubl0nd> if you don't dualboot, i recommend you *do* use UTC clock
17:38:08 <loupgaroubl0nd> the next screen is the root password, you need to think about this carefully
17:38:13 <loupgaroubl0nd> with great power comes great responsibility
17:38:29 <loupgaroubl0nd> you don't want to use a password like qwerty1 which people can guess in two seconds
17:38:39 <loupgaroubl0nd> and don't share with anyone else unless you trust them
17:38:45 <loupgaroubl0nd> the next screen is partitioning your harddisk
17:38:53 <loupgaroubl0nd> at first you have five options
17:39:14 <loupgaroubl0nd> if this is your first time, or you want to get rid of windows, you can just use 'use entire drive'
17:39:44 <loupgaroubl0nd> if you already had a linux system, which you dual boot with windows, use 'relpace existing linux system', it will keep your windows system
17:40:04 <loupgaroubl0nd> you can shrink your current system, i never tried it, and i can't recommend it, it's better to think about your partitioning first, but it is supported
17:40:17 <loupgaroubl0nd> 'use free space' good for when you have unpartitioned free space on your hard drive
17:40:30 <loupgaroubl0nd> and there's 'create custom layout' which i use
17:41:02 <loupgaroubl0nd> if you use 'review and modify partitioning layout' which will also give you that screen, but with a nicer layout
17:41:13 <loupgaroubl0nd> you can also pick which hard drive you use to install
17:41:32 <loupgaroubl0nd> yoram: wil this work with both IDE and sata?
17:42:43 <loupgaroubl0nd> yaakov: it will work with any block devices supported by linux, so it will work
17:43:06 <loupgaroubl0nd> also, this layout will change in the future versions of fedora, so when you upgrade or reinstall, make sure to reread the documentation
17:43:17 <loupgaroubl0nd> the design is on the wiki, and mo duffy is here today to ask her questions if you're curious
17:43:20 <loupgaroubl0nd> bert:
17:43:35 <loupgaroubl0nd> the next screen is the custom layout where you can customize partitions
17:43:44 <loupgaroubl0nd> you can configure LVM - the logical volume manager
17:45:25 <loupgaroubl0nd> you can also customize the swap partition, which is useful for systems with less ram
17:45:53 <loupgaroubl0nd> yaakov: i usually recommend that you need about 512 mb of ram for a desktop, and in this case you need around a 1-2gb swap if you have it
17:46:08 <loupgaroubl0nd> but on our servers, we use the same amount of swap, 2gb or so
17:46:23 <loupgaroubl0nd> bert:
17:46:43 <loupgaroubl0nd> here i wouldn't put my boot partition on a lvm or software raid array partition, or it can't boot
17:46:58 <loupgaroubl0nd> so you need one normal partition for boot, and the rest is in LVM, like you see in the screenshot
17:47:25 <loupgaroubl0nd> i resize my root partition to make it smaller, and then i add a home partition using the rest of the space
17:47:45 <loupgaroubl0nd> this is useful when reinstalling fedora, you don't have to backup the home directory, your personal settings will be saved
17:48:05 <loupgaroubl0nd> yaakov: this will be default in a later version of fedora
17:48:45 <loupgaroubl0nd> i would encrypt your LVM, it makes sure that your system can't be hacked directly through grub or the console, because you need your password
17:49:25 <loupgaroubl0nd> if you have a computer at home, there's a lesser chance people will have access to it physically, so it's not so necessary to encrypt it
17:49:48 <loupgaroubl0nd> the next screen is to configure the boot loader
17:49:56 <loupgaroubl0nd> if you have more than one system, such as windows, you will see more choices
17:50:08 <loupgaroubl0nd> you can also include a grub boot loader password
17:50:14 <loupgaroubl0nd> and configure where the boot loader is installed
17:50:32 <loupgaroubl0nd> yaakov: can you explain what a boot loader is
17:50:35 <loupgaroubl0nd> bert:
17:50:57 <loupgaroubl0nd> it's a sort of mini operating systems that is used to boot an operating system
17:51:16 <loupgaroubl0nd> if you install fedora without one, it won't start up
17:52:11 <loupgaroubl0nd> there's a question about installing windows after linux
17:52:32 <loupgaroubl0nd> basicalyl windows will overrite the boot record, and there are ways to do it, but you have to reinstall grub
17:52:45 <loupgaroubl0nd> there's a second question about the 'diagnostic partition' on a hard drive
17:53:02 <loupgaroubl0nd> bert: the boot loader goes on the first four blocks of a hard drive, not the partition
17:53:40 <loupgaroubl0nd> so which partition do you install it to?
17:53:58 <loupgaroubl0nd> bert: so you could install it to a partition, but then you need another bootloader too, in this case you put it on the hard drive itself, and not on the partitions
17:54:24 <loupgaroubl0nd> for a hard drive, say /dev/sda, there are four primary partions /dev/sda1, /dev/sda2, /dev/sda3, and so on
17:54:26 * mchua raises hand, what's a partition? and how much do we actually need to worry about it (if it's someone's first time installing?)
17:54:31 <mchua> in other words, are the defaults OK?
17:54:34 <loupgaroubl0nd> so you pick /dev/sda or /dev/sdb, but not the numbers
17:55:38 <loupgaroubl0nd> bert: normally yes, but i would do the bit with /home
17:55:49 <loupgaroubl0nd> yaakov: i think you're wrong, because that's too complicated
17:55:56 <loupgaroubl0nd> bert: the next screen
17:56:06 <loupgaroubl0nd> what do you want to install, basic, but good
17:56:12 <loupgaroubl0nd> you can always customize now for more options
17:56:25 <loupgaroubl0nd> that way you can choose which packages you want on your fedora system without having everything installed
17:56:38 <loupgaroubl0nd> then you choose which repository to use and you get a groups list
17:56:50 <loupgaroubl0nd> there is a large repository on the DVD, and you can chose from that
17:56:57 <loupgaroubl0nd> and then you click install and you wait, and then it's done
17:57:06 <loupgaroubl0nd> then you need to reboot your system, and you get the first boot
17:57:20 <loupgaroubl0nd> first you need to accept the licens, but it's a free license so there aren't many restrictions
17:57:31 <loupgaroubl0nd> then you need to set the time, but if your bios is right, you don't need to change anything
17:57:43 <loupgaroubl0nd> but i always enable network time protocol, and that way my time is always right and precise
17:57:56 <loupgaroubl0nd> smolt is the next tab, it collects data anonymously, so we can see what hardware our users use
17:58:16 <loupgaroubl0nd> so we know what hardware to focus on for developing versions, so we don't concentrate on some exotic system no one uses
17:59:02 <loupgaroubl0nd> question, if the network doesn't work, can you send it later
17:59:19 <loupgaroubl0nd> yaakov: yeah, you can use the command line tool, and there might be a gui, but i haven't worked with it in a while, so i don't know the status
17:59:37 <loupgaroubl0nd> bert: to upgrade, i just open a console and run yum upgrade
17:59:54 <loupgaroubl0nd> or 'preupgrade'
18:00:08 <loupgaroubl0nd> you have to enter your root password
18:00:46 <mchua> question, since time is wrapping up: will you (or others) be available for upgrade help later on in FUDCon?
18:01:03 <loupgaroubl0nd> bert will be around
18:01:23 <loupgaroubl0nd> you can email questions to bert aT desmet point be
18:01:34 <loupgaroubl0nd> or follow bert on identica or twitter with biertie
18:01:45 <loupgaroubl0nd> #link http://bdesmet.be
18:01:55 <loupgaroubl0nd> i hope you enjoyed it
18:01:58 <loupgaroubl0nd> #endmeeting