20:15:25 <tflink> #startmeeting
20:15:25 <zodbot> Meeting started Sun Jan 30 20:15:25 2011 UTC.  The chair is tflink. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:15:25 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:15:44 <tflink> ==> starting lightning talks
20:16:02 <tflink> #topic lightning talks
20:16:13 <tflink> Jon stanley is talking
20:16:27 <tflink> sorry - seth vidal
20:16:49 <tflink> he has an idea that he wants to work with - friends on jabber
20:17:06 <tflink> that are all kept track of in our own accounts but we might want to keep track of our friends
20:17:21 <tflink> jabber clients can send status off to the server - what is happening with my friends
20:17:41 <tflink> he is looking at the idea of collecting this data for at least subsets of the fedora community
20:18:09 <tflink> so I have my own friends roster, show everything that my roster and an external roster (ex sysadmins) did today
20:18:25 <tflink> the idea would be to be able to do this without a huge amount of additional infrastructure
20:18:43 <tflink> is there enough interest to keep this going forward?
20:19:31 <tflink> #topic cloud computing: why you should give a damn
20:19:40 <tflink> mike mc grath
20:20:05 <tflink> why should devs should care: even if you don't care, the decision makers will because it is cheaper
20:20:23 <tflink> as a dev, you will have to understand this new infrastructure so that you can work with them and around them
20:20:41 <tflink> a sysadmin will have to deal with this new method of infrastructure managment - provisioning, hardware
20:21:16 <tflink> the current sysadmin setup is inefficient and there will probably be less of a need for sysadmins going forward
20:21:27 <tflink> which is why I am trying to get into more engineering
20:21:59 <tflink> there are a lot of nay-sayers for open standards and free software in the current envoronment
20:22:15 <tflink> it will be worse in the cloud, where you may not even have control of your own data
20:22:43 <tflink> I think taht it will involve a shift towards more open standards so that people can have their own implementation that allows for moving between impelemtnation
20:23:01 <tflink> as freedom fighters, that will be our next task ==> fighting for open standards
20:23:05 <tflink> OK, I'm done!
20:23:16 <tflink> #topic Eclipse Fedora Tools
20:23:24 <tflink> * there is a presentation for this talk
20:23:39 <tflink> *possibly interperative dance, too. not sure
20:23:54 <tflink> something that you may now know about in exlipse is a rpm SPEC file editor
20:24:19 <tflink> this has cool stuff like code completion that queries RPM databases and yum repos to find available packages
20:24:28 <tflink> there is also syntax highlighting for errors
20:24:44 <tflink> it can expand RPM macros that are defined
20:25:16 <tflink> you can do a lot of the cool things taht you can do with eclipse - folding, outline etc. if you're not a vim/emacs master
20:25:32 <tflink> one of the things that I want to talk about is integration with fedora infrastructure
20:25:41 <tflink> including stuff for fedora packaging
20:25:57 <tflink> if you install eclipse from fedora, you can import packages from fedora git
20:26:23 <tflink> so you get a proper clone from git, and do everything that I would otherwise be expecting to do with a git checkout
20:26:44 <tflink> you can push to koji, perform scratch build, create new bodhi update among other things
20:27:02 <tflink> some parts of this will only show up if you have commit rights for the fedora projects
20:27:12 <tflink> everyone will have access to stuff like: build SRPMs
20:27:25 <tflink> * is talking about the presentation he didn't get to make - way too fast for me to type
20:27:38 <tflink> who is this not for - those who use runlevel 3, eclipse haters etc.
20:28:12 <tflink> there is a mailing list: eclipse-fedorapackager, trac: eclipse-fedorapackager
20:28:18 <tflink> * lots of applause
20:28:43 <tflink> #topic Contributing to infrastructure
20:28:59 <tflink> so, who can contribute to infrastructure?
20:29:07 <tflink> you can - sysadmin, moderator etc.
20:29:20 <tflink> histroically, we've done a bad job of mentoring new people and I'd like to change that
20:29:33 <tflink> but I don't have a whole lot of time so forgive me if I don't get to you
20:29:51 <tflink> but I will make a concerned effort on the sysadmin side and toshio is good about it
20:30:17 <tflink> basically anything that requires a computer - wiki, git, bodhi etc. is part of the infrastructure
20:30:25 <tflink> what skill sets would we like?
20:30:40 <tflink> if you're looking to get a service provided, the best way would be to do it yourself
20:30:57 <tflink> if you're looking to hack on existing stuff, pretty much everything is in turbogears and python
20:31:20 <tflink> we do have a mailing list, but IRC #fedora-admin is where we get more of our work done since its in real time
20:31:28 <tflink> if you're interested, talk to me on IRC
20:32:52 <tflink> #topic eucalyptus
20:33:23 <tflink> I want to mention what eucalyptus does, so I want to show off our community cloud
20:33:45 <tflink> this is where anyone can apply for an account and figure out what the cloud is all about
20:33:52 <tflink> but your instance will be killed in about 6 hours
20:34:01 <tflink> we have pretty strict rules about what you can do for free
20:34:28 <tflink> * showing diagram about network structure
20:35:05 <tflink> you might be asking about what this has to do with fedora
20:35:18 <tflink> we do have fedora packages that are pretty old and I apologize for that
20:35:26 <tflink> but we are trying to get into newer versions of fedora
20:35:32 <tflink> *q - are you in EPEL?
20:35:57 <tflink> not yet, we have about 150 deps for eucalyptus so we need to get all that done
20:36:20 <tflink> we are trying to get into fedora before EPEL (about 25 packages remaining)
20:36:39 <tflink> * q - you said that it would be killed in 6 hours, can I transfer that to my own box?
20:36:49 <tflink> yeah, that is the idea. we want you to bring your own box
20:37:03 <tflink> #topic smooge explaining something as an ambassador
20:37:25 <tflink> * pretty background on projector
20:37:50 <tflink> * the background is a nova from a long time ago
20:38:02 <tflink> on monday, there was an account compromise
20:38:13 <tflink> someone emailed us and told us tha tsomeone changed their password
20:38:32 <tflink> we did some locking, fixing and said taht we would make a full report here
20:38:45 <tflink> as far as we know (high confidence) there were no packages compromised
20:39:05 <tflink> they were only able to get into a bit of the fedorapeople server but were caught shortly after that
20:39:10 <tflink> *q - how did he get around the ssh key
20:39:22 <tflink> he was able to change the ssh key because he had the password of a user
20:39:38 <tflink> * q- is the ability for an ssh key to be changed from a password
20:39:49 <tflink> yes, but it is required and managed. an email goes out when the key is changed
20:40:12 <tflink> * q - what about approving the changes
20:40:33 <tflink> that wouldn't work so well because of the high volume - forgot keys, lost keys etc. would be very hard to tell legit from non-legit
20:41:11 <tflink> suggestions: watch your email, be aware of what is going on with your account
20:41:21 <tflink> if you're using an ssh key, make sure that you have a password for it
20:41:21 * nb thinks a lot depends on the security of one's FAS password
20:41:44 <tflink> the person whose account was compromise was paying close attention (theory was that keylogger was user)
20:41:49 <tflink> it was a weak password
20:42:20 <nb> oh
20:42:21 <tflink> *c - suggestion that a _TRULY_ random password would be best
20:42:36 <tflink> yes, it would be a good thing to have better passwords
20:43:02 <tflink> while the system was using SELinux and while that did help contain damage it couldn't prevent the breach in the first place
20:43:07 <tflink> ==> time up
20:43:39 <tflink> #topic fedora medical team
20:44:00 <tflink> I have gone to conference, talked to doctors and the real problem in adopting FOSS is drivers
20:44:18 <tflink> the companies that produce the HW say that nobody is using FOSS, aren't going to open the drivers
20:44:28 <tflink> these devices are really expensive
20:44:50 <tflink> there is some software out there (debian-medical group) but we REALLY need people to package these drivers for fedora
20:45:13 <tflink> if we can get these packaged, we can start making the case to these companies that people are using FOSS in the medical community
20:45:28 <tflink> I have been packaging things, but I need help to package and with package reviews
20:45:56 * nb wonders if tflink could note who is doing the talks
20:46:05 <tflink> nb: will try
20:46:13 <nb> ok thanks
20:46:35 <tflink> there are doctors interested in helping, but need help here
20:46:53 <tflink> * something about getting $$ together for a shirt to for tibbits for reviews
20:47:43 <brunowolff> Is there a SIG or wiki page for the medical stuff?
20:47:56 <tflink> brunowolff: not sure
20:48:05 <tflink> #topic fedora infrastructure and python
20:48:11 <tflink> speaker - toshio
20:48:40 <tflink> we have a whole bunch of snippets of pyhon code in fedora infrastructure dealing with unicode
20:49:01 <tflink> so we put a package together called kitchen which is a collection of this stuff
20:49:39 <tflink> brunowolff: I will point the speaker at IRC when I get a chance, he should know more
20:49:52 <tflink> the speaker about the fedora medical stuff
20:50:05 <tflink> * there is currently a demo on the screen, will try to keep up
20:50:11 <brunowolff> Thanks.
20:50:34 <tflink> say you have an app, and it works and whatnot, but you wan to localize it
20:51:12 <tflink> I need to do something with gettext that I found from somewhere in the fedora project, find all the stuff that I need
20:51:27 <tflink> it looks good, everything is going to be substituted and work perfectly
20:51:38 <tflink> but, when you run this ...
20:52:24 <tflink> * waiting - usual demo gremlins
20:53:07 <tflink> what is supposed to happen is that it would look up the .jp string but it will throw a unicode error
20:53:29 <tflink> brunowolff: susmit was the speaker for fedora medical
20:53:46 <tflink> so we have some stuff in kitchen to make this easier
20:53:52 <tflink> * out of time -- done
20:53:57 <brunowolff> susmit: Do you guys have a list of packages on wiki page?
20:54:06 <tflink> #topic the dreyfus mode
20:54:12 <tflink> model not mode
20:54:17 <tflink> speaker: mel chua
20:54:29 <susmit_fedora_me> brunowolff: yes, I do. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/FedoraMedical
20:54:42 <tflink> I want to talk about something that I am often asked: Mel! Why don't ppl help me?
20:55:03 <brunowolff> OK. Thanks. I don't promise to do something, but if I am looking for things to do, I'll take a look there.
20:55:14 <tflink> ans: I have docs!, I don't bite on IRC! what's the isse?
20:55:14 <susmit> Sure, thanks a lot.
20:55:37 <tflink> and I think that I'm starting to understand the problem
20:55:50 <tflink> for example, I'm terrible in the kitchen - I touch an oven and it blows up
20:56:05 <tflink> so imagine that I wanted to bake, and was directed to a wiki that said:
20:56:10 <tflink> CROISSANT:
20:56:13 <tflink> - flout
20:56:17 <tflink> - butter
20:56:20 <tflink> - stuff
20:56:22 <tflink> ----------------
20:56:28 <tflink> - Bake it!
20:56:34 <tflink> - Ask for help if you need it
20:56:39 <brunowolff> susmit: I don't see a wish list for reviews or new things to be packaged?
20:56:48 <tflink> but I have no idea what a croissant is - is it bread?
20:57:03 <tflink> * she is modifying the list on the board, will attempt to convey
20:57:24 <tflink> so what would I need to understand this list better (as a non-baker)
20:57:38 <brunowolff> susmit: I see two listed now. I was expecting more when I was doing a first look.
20:57:41 <tflink> add the ingreedients as a group clearly labeled as ingreedients
20:57:54 <tflink> also, do I need an oven for this baking
20:58:12 <tflink> which could be an analogy for python
20:58:22 <tflink> do I have python? yes, but that would be nice to have it spelled
20:58:33 <tflink> some people don't know what compile means
20:58:33 <susmit> brunowolff: Please look under "Workflow/Groups"
20:58:59 <tflink> There is other missing information in our bread recipe, like time to bake, temp
20:59:14 <brunowolff> That's what I was looking for. I was expecting that to be something else.
20:59:18 <tflink> basically - I don't want to spend time asking for help while my oven is on
20:59:27 <tflink> I want to know ahread of time
20:59:37 <tflink> look on wikipedia for more info on the dreyfus method
20:59:52 <tflink> #topic ambassadorship, events and you
20:59:59 <susmit> brunowolff: I am in process of moving those to a trac that we have.
21:00:01 <tflink> speaker - clint savage, larry cahero
21:00:19 <tflink> we have all sorts of events in the open source community
21:00:37 <tflink> one of the things that I have been thinking about is participating in events that may not have a technical focus
21:00:48 <tflink> and start representing FOSS at these events
21:01:10 <tflink> the idea would be to start talking about FOSS and fedora at events that are interesting to members of the community
21:01:40 <tflink> larry (l) - one thing that we did in the past is to have a table at the farmers' market to give out free software
21:01:56 <tflink> l: so that when you pick up your organic lettuce, you get your organic software, too
21:02:17 <tflink> l: there are a lot of tech events and non-tech events where we could be spreading the word about free software
21:02:26 <tflink> l: we have been talking about comic-con etc.
21:02:59 <tflink> l: clint is more of an ambassador than I am but even if you aren't an official ambassador, you can still promote fedora at events that are tech and non-tech related
21:03:18 <tflink> l: we want to start thinking outside the box a bit about the places where we are promoting fedora
21:03:45 <tflink> clint (c): so we want to start expanding - for example, (missed name) is going to sxsw this year
21:03:53 <tflink> *q - what is sxsw?
21:04:08 <susmit> me notes that if you are working in any other group, ambassadors group has a real low barrier for you.
21:04:16 <tflink> c: sxsw is a gathering of artists
21:04:27 <tflink> c: other examples would be getting media for your local LUG
21:04:38 <tflink> c: we don't really know what we want to go into
21:04:50 <tflink> l: but we want your input and help to figure out where to go with this
21:05:22 <tflink> ==> we raised $26 to get 10 package reviews for fedora medical from tibbs
21:05:56 <tflink> there will be a trackback in bugzilla for fedora-medical shortly
21:06:10 <susmit> Great !!!!
21:06:33 <tflink> ian weller is the coordinator for these lightning talks for FUDCon and this was a first
21:06:55 <tflink> if you're interested in similar stuff in the future, let him know
21:07:55 <tflink> ** I missed this in real time, but the $26 was about tibbs (not sure if I spelled this right) saying that he would do 10 package reviews in exchange for a certain type of shirt - they started collecting $$ in the room at that time to buy a shirt in exchange for reviews
21:08:10 <nb> the hotdog shirt
21:08:16 <nb> the mustard indicates progress :)
21:08:33 <tflink> ==> the lightning talks are now done, if I missed some piece of information, let me know. I'm sure that I missed something
21:08:43 <tflink> I will be posting the meetbot logs on the wiki
21:08:47 <tflink> #endmeeting