01:00:24 <rbergeron> #startmeeting FUDCon NA Discussion and Recommendation
01:00:24 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Apr 28 01:00:24 2011 UTC.  The chair is rbergeron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
01:00:24 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
01:00:35 <rbergeron> #meetingname FUDCon NA Discussion
01:00:35 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fudcon_na_discussion'
01:00:44 <rbergeron> #chair vilegent sdziallas jsmith
01:00:44 <zodbot> Current chairs: jsmith rbergeron sdziallas vilegent
01:01:02 <jsmith> Welcome everyone!
01:01:12 <jsmith> Thanks for coming out to our little meeting
01:01:13 <rbergeron> Hi folks.
01:01:26 <VileGent> .fas jbwillia
01:01:28 <zodbot> VileGent: jbwillia 'Ben Williams' <vaioof@yahoo.com>
01:01:32 <rbergeron> jsmith: did you want to take the reins here?
01:01:43 <jsmith> rbergeron: It's up to you -- don't want to step on your toes
01:01:54 <jsmith> rbergeron: but if you want me to, I'm happy to run w/ it
01:01:58 <rbergeron> I think maybe briefing folks on the process might be helpful - ie: what you're going to do with any information you get here tonight.
01:02:04 <VileGent> jsmith,  your request your meeting
01:02:06 <rbergeron> unless anyone has any other thoughts.
01:02:07 <jsmith> I'd be happy to :-)
01:02:26 <jsmith> OK, so the point of this meeting is to follow up to the meeting that FAmNA had (when was that, last week?)
01:02:51 <jsmith> My goal from this meeting is to get a recommendation from the community on where they'd like to see the next FUDCon NA
01:03:01 <jsmith> Absent any recommendations, I'll make a decision on my own by Friday
01:03:25 <jsmith> So if you want to help influence the decision, this venue or the fudcon-planning mailing list are appropriate places to do so
01:03:49 <rbergeron> jsmith: are you planning on asking famsco this weekend?
01:03:57 <jsmith> In the short term, it would be really easy for me to just pick a location, but I'm really trying to help people gain a longer-term view on things
01:04:11 <jsmith> (drive more community involvement, etc.)
01:04:24 <jsmith> Hence the reason this decision has dragged and lagged
01:05:19 <jsmith> rbergeron: To be honest, I think the decision has dragged on long enough -- I'd like to have things nailed down by end of business on Friday, if possible
01:05:56 <rbergeron> okay.
01:05:58 <jsmith> rbergeron: Not trying to cut them out, but they've known about it, and had plenty of time to make suggestions
01:06:13 <rbergeron> I think they were waiting on us to make a recommendation to them, and not make their own recommendation separately.
01:06:22 <rbergeron> I think everyone basically was unclear on the process, mostly. :)
01:06:38 * inode0 doesn't think famsco or famna knows what they are doing :)
01:06:42 <jsmith> rbergeron: In a perfect world, I wouldn't have to put an agenda item on their plate for them to consider it
01:06:42 * jsmith hopes that doesn't come across as sounding too harsh
01:07:30 <rbergeron> Okay.
01:07:39 <jsmith> OK, so my plan is this -- try to get consensus here, give people until Friday to make any other comments, and then announce the location.
01:07:55 <jsmith> Again, if we don't get consensus here, I'll make the decision on my own
01:08:08 <jsmith> I'd just rather have y'all help out :-)
01:08:18 <jsmith> Clear as mud?
01:08:24 <rbergeron> I think so.
01:08:30 * inode0 is willing to vote for one or the other
01:08:58 <rbergeron> Okay. Shall we move on?
01:09:00 <jsmith> So, let me kick of the discussion by saying this:
01:09:17 <jsmith> Both bids are great... and I'm pretty sure I'd be happy having FUDCon at either location
01:09:57 <jsmith> I'd like to publicly thank both the VT and Olin bidding groups for their effort and dedication
01:10:18 <jsmith> It takes a lot of guts to stand up and offer to host a FUDCon, and both teams deserve our thanks for being willing to do that
01:10:34 <jsmith> With that, let the discussions begin!
01:11:08 <rbergeron> Does anyone need more information about the bids, or do either of the bids have anything they'd like to add or say or ask?
01:11:14 <jsmith> When the location for FUDCon LATAM was chosen (by the LATAM community), they used a spreadsheet to help assign scores to the various venues
01:11:17 <rbergeron> Has everyone *read* the bids?
01:11:25 <rbergeron> jsmith: yeah, the spreadsheet was rather unclear to us.
01:11:27 <jsmith> I know that FAmNA tried to use that spreadsheet last week, but found it confusing
01:11:58 <rbergeron> I think most of the points were rather subject to interpretation.
01:12:14 <inode0> and other important factors didn't fit in anywhere'
01:12:14 <jsmith> The idea was to focus the discussion on a few key areas
01:12:47 <jsmith> (location, facilities, accommodations, thorough planning, etc.)
01:13:00 <inode0> both bids are nice - so I personally focus on the big positives and negatives if I can see them
01:13:11 <jsmith> I'm perfectly happy if we throw the spreadsheet aside, but I'd like to try to stay focused on those areas
01:13:26 <jsmith> (and not just talk in circles or past each other and get nowhere)
01:13:26 <rbergeron> yes - but how to measure location - etc. - all of those types of questions proved to be fairly ... variable in terms of what they meant to different folks
01:13:49 <jsmith> So instead of assigning scores, let's just talk about both bids in terms of each item, and see what folks think
01:14:05 <jsmith> Shall we start with location?
01:14:37 * sdziallas thinks that sounds fair.
01:14:41 <rbergeron> Sure.
01:15:05 <inode0> this is bringing back memories of the famna meeting to me
01:15:14 <rbergeron> inode0: yup.
01:15:22 <jsmith> inode0: I'm open to suggestions if you think there's a better way...
01:16:14 <VileGent> basicly hangout for 30 minutes if anyone has any questions we answer if possible  at :30 call for a vote
01:16:28 <inode0> both locations have covered all the basic areas, both at at nice schools, both are a ways away from airports, etc. etc. etc.
01:17:30 <mock> which two venues are the choices?
01:17:31 <inode0> My questions are what would make FUDCon at location X exciting/interesting/special and is there a significant cost disparity between the two and do we care about it?
01:17:34 * mock got here late
01:18:03 <nb> mock, VT and Olin
01:18:55 <mock> virginia tech and olin...where is olin?
01:19:07 <sdziallas> mock: needham, MA -- slightly outside of boston.
01:19:10 <VileGent> Mass in january
01:19:24 <rbergeron> I think both places are equivalently far from airports, are they not?
01:19:24 <jsmith> mock: Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, VA vs. Olin College, Needham, MA
01:19:37 <jsmith> rbergeron: Yeah, pretty close
01:20:14 <inode0> VT seems to have simpler transportation though - but that is fairly minor
01:20:46 * sdziallas notes google maps says a 15 minute difference in terms of rides from the airport.
01:20:59 <jsmith> Boston is obviously a bigger airport, but more likely to have weather issues in the winter time
01:21:11 <VileGent> sdziallas,  plus traffic
01:21:20 <sdziallas> (i'm not trying to nit pick here, but just want to make sure we take everything into account, not just weather :)
01:21:28 <jsmith> sdziallas: Sure...
01:21:28 <mock> that's what i was thinking, jsmith
01:21:41 <nb> where is blacksburg located near (like what airport)?
01:21:50 <inode0> from my perspective get on one bus, pay $3 is simpler and cheaper that any directions I heard about from up north :)
01:21:51 <jsmith> nb: Roanoke airport
01:21:54 <mock> sdziallas: it's not a nick pick
01:21:56 <VileGent> Roanoke Regional
01:22:12 * jsmith reminds folks that many of these details are in the bids:
01:22:15 <mock> nitpick.  if bad weather shuts down airport, fudcon is shutdown too
01:22:23 <mock> poor attendence
01:22:45 <mock> poor spelling for me tonight
01:22:51 <rbergeron> mock :)
01:23:07 <jsmith> #info Blacksburg bid: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Blacksburg_2012
01:23:07 <jsmith> #info Olin bid: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Olin_201
01:23:12 <jsmith> mock: Well, we found in Phoenix that bad weather is going to get travelers, even if we have FUDCon in a sunny location :-)
01:23:32 <sdziallas> #undo
01:23:32 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x162b254c>
01:23:37 <jsmith> mock: It's part of the game we call "conferences" :-)
01:23:38 <mock> yeah, but odds in winter for boston...?
01:23:40 <VileGent> sdziallas, link your bid please
01:23:41 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Blacksburg_2012
01:23:42 <sdziallas> #info Olin bid: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Olin_2012
01:23:52 * inode0 has been stranded post-FUDCon trying to get home two years in a row
01:24:09 <jsmith> Another thing to consider with regards to location is the size of the college campuses
01:24:16 <mock> was there no bid from hawaii?
01:24:21 <jsmith> From what I gather, VT is quite a bit bigger than Olin :-)
01:24:26 <sdziallas> that is true! :)
01:24:35 <jsmith> (Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I'll let you folks debate)
01:24:40 * inode0 suggests not having FUDCon in NA in the middle of winter forever ...
01:24:48 <mock> VileGent has webcams to prove that
01:25:04 <jsmith> inode0: Next year shift FUDCon LATAM to Dec/Jan and FUDCon NA to June/July?
01:25:10 <VileGent> http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Virginia+Polytechnic+Institute,+210+Burrus+Hall,+Blacksburg,+Virginia+24061-2000&ll=37.221425,-80.424307&spn=0.037728,0.090895&z=14
01:25:12 <jsmith> inode0: It's entirely possible...
01:25:43 <VileGent> http://www.vtnews.vt.edu/webcams/index.html
01:25:48 <jsmith> OK, anything else for people to add with regards to location?
01:25:53 <sdziallas> I'
01:26:08 <inode0> I see the locations as mostly a wash - little advantages for each
01:26:18 <rbergeron> I think that the discussion about the season of fudcon, while good for another time, is not particularly relevant this evening.
01:26:22 <rbergeron> inode0: i agree
01:26:29 <jsmith> rbergeron: +1
01:26:50 <jsmith> OK, moving on to accommodations...
01:26:57 * inode0 can't resist emphasizing we are going to talk about bad weather forever if we keep ignoring it
01:27:18 * sdziallas wonders whether airline prices go into accomodation or... location or whatnot.
01:27:36 * inode0 isn't sure they matter to anyone at this point
01:27:48 <rbergeron> inode0: yup. but unless we want to make the call tonight that we want to do fudcon in a later quarter, and thereby possibly screw up existing bid prospects...
01:27:53 <sdziallas> inode0: I think it makes a difference to a student whether they have to pay $200 or $500.
01:28:20 <VileGent> sdziallas,  there is not that much difference
01:28:24 <inode0> it makes a difference to me too, but it doesn't seem to matter in the big picture
01:28:30 * sdziallas agrees with inode0.
01:28:44 <sdziallas> inode0: I agree with your previous statement re locations being approx even.
01:28:49 * sdziallas shuts up, let's move on.
01:29:05 <jsmith> As I see it, hotel rooms are slightly less expensive in Blacksburg
01:29:29 <inode0> who wants to suggest an accommodation edge one way or the other?
01:29:31 <jsmith> sdziallas: Can you give us an idea of the distance from the hotel to the venue at Olin?
01:29:33 <VileGent> jsmith the primary hotel will be $99 per night
01:29:49 <inode0> $20 a night isn't as important to me as whether I can comfortably walk to the event
01:30:12 * jsmith guesses that both venues are a long walk from primary hotels
01:30:14 <inode0> having to deal with transportation is a pain
01:30:15 <sdziallas> jsmith: we have looked into a hotel that requires bus transportation (like in toronto) because of the experience we've had at that hotel.
01:30:32 <jsmith> sdziallas: OK...
01:30:33 <sdziallas> there's a hotel on a partner campus; if people felt strongly about it, we could work out something with them.
01:30:38 <rbergeron> vilegent: apologies if this is in the bid, but i didn't see anything about it offhand - does your hotel include internet costs, or have any other magical hidden costs?
01:30:42 <rbergeron> (resort fees, etc)
01:30:46 <mock> we can all just ride with VileGent
01:30:46 <rbergeron> sdziallas: same q to you
01:30:58 <VileGent> mock i will be walking
01:30:59 <sdziallas> when I stayed at the proposed hotel, I was amazed.
01:31:03 * rbergeron had looked at multiple hotels in tempe and some had extra fees for newspapers, parking, other stuff, etc.
01:31:08 <sdziallas> rbergeron: internet is free at both.
01:31:14 <sdziallas> rbergeron: so is parking.
01:31:18 <VileGent> rbergeron,  none that i have found as yet
01:31:23 <rbergeron> okay.
01:31:43 * rbergeron just doesn't like seeing 99/night hotels turn into 120 a night hotels, and then adding tax on top of that. ;)
01:31:50 <rbergeron> though i realize there will be taxes at least.
01:32:12 <jsmith> OK, any other questions/comments/suggestions/complains regarding accommodations?
01:32:20 <rbergeron> sooooo
01:32:42 <rbergeron> all the hotels at both locations are... how far?
01:32:44 <rbergeron> walking?
01:32:46 <VileGent> primary hotel less than .1 mile
01:32:55 <VileGent> walking even closer
01:33:07 <inode0> that rocks my world
01:33:07 <rbergeron> vilegent: i'm looking at yours and it says 2 miles?
01:33:14 <jsmith> VileGent: Oh, good.... your bid says 2 miles...
01:33:24 <jsmith> or "within 2 miles"
01:33:29 <VileGent> secondary hotel will be .12
01:33:39 <jsmith> Still easily walkable :-)
01:33:41 <mock> not bad
01:33:41 <VileGent> more bids have come in
01:33:55 <jsmith> Good to know, good to know
01:34:02 <VileGent> jsmith more distance in Tempe
01:34:24 <rbergeron> and olin requires a bus no matter what? every day?
01:34:38 <jsmith> Yes, and I don't think Tempe was bad (but I like to walk)
01:34:41 <inode0> so I'm getting slightly cheaper and closer accommodation for VT
01:34:53 <jsmith> inode0: Yeah, I'm getting that same vibe
01:35:04 <rbergeron> jsmith: well it was sunny out and you could absorb vitamin d ;D
01:35:25 <sdziallas> rbergeron: again, we picked the suggested hotels because they provide a much better experience than for example a courtyard (both in terms of breakfast & layout).
01:35:57 <rbergeron> sdziallas: there isn't anything closer?
01:36:01 <jsmith> rbergeron: Heaven knows I need all I can get :-p  I grew up in Wyoming, where the only way to get Vitamin D is to drink more whole milk...
01:36:04 <rbergeron> i mean i agree that aloft hotels are totally pimpin
01:36:19 <sdziallas> rbergeron: there is. if people felt it mattered more (I just don't know who'd want to walk in January.)
01:36:23 <rbergeron> but the idea of spending 30 minutes on a bus, or god forbid if someone feels ill and needs to go back to the hotel - that's a long drive.
01:36:36 <jsmith> Right -- we need to balance between hotel experience and convenience
01:36:42 <VileGent> time of year in blacksburg is perfect for cheap hotels
01:37:13 <sdziallas> jsmith: I agree. mchua and I felt it was within reason, but that doesn't mean people couldn't disagree. :)
01:37:25 <jsmith> sdziallas: Fair enough :-)
01:37:45 <jsmith> OK, anything else with regards to accommodations?
01:38:03 <VileGent> rooms at the Inn @ VT are usually 180-200 per night
01:38:40 <rbergeron> sdziallas: how much are rooms that are closer?
01:38:57 <rbergeron> are the hotels listed near anything else that is convenient (like places to eat, nightlife, etc)?
01:39:23 <sdziallas> rbergeron: I haven't checked. There's a Sheraton in Needham, that should come in around $100. There's one where people tend to walk on a partner campus, but it might be more expensive.
01:39:25 <rbergeron> vilegent: and your hotel - what are nearby dining options like? is that a walking distance or otherwise?
01:40:15 <sdziallas> also, we were planning on having regular shuttles so that people wouldn't have to worry about transit.
01:40:43 <mock> in virginia, it's all cracker barrels and po folks, right, VileGent?  ;)
01:40:46 <VileGent> about the same difference in the other direction there is a panera  pizza hut and log cabin bbq etc
01:41:28 * mock is a fan of the hut
01:41:38 <inode0> we need to move on
01:41:52 <jsmith> OK, shall we move on?
01:41:55 <mock> yes
01:42:05 <sdziallas> (I got a hard cutoff at 10.)
01:42:07 <VileGent> http://maps.google.com/maps?near=University+Mall+Shopping+Center,+Blacksburg,+VA+24060&geocode=CaRYnanipiy4FaUkOAIdcqs0-ylPGiy4QZVNiDEc8zdDp0gCiQ&q=food&f=l&sll=37.221425,-80.424307&sspn=0.037728,0.090895&ie=UTF8&hq=food&hnear=&z=16
01:42:44 <jsmith> In the interest of time, let's make "thorough planning" very quick
01:43:03 <jsmith> Both bids seemed to be well planned out as I've read over them (several times each)
01:43:23 <jsmith> I honestly don't see a lot of advantage in one bid over the other with regards to planning
01:43:30 <inode0> yes, both +1 for thorough planning
01:43:46 <rbergeron> I have a hard cutoff as well here.
01:43:56 <jsmith> Maybe a little more FUDPub planning on the Olin bid, but very close
01:44:00 <inode0> I'm confident both will have thorough follow through too if selected
01:44:08 <jsmith> Absolutely
01:44:28 <jsmith> In the interest of time, let's give three or four minutes or last-minute questions, and then take a vote.
01:44:39 <inode0> +1
01:45:11 * rbergeron agrees
01:45:15 <VileGent> any more questions?
01:45:34 <jsmith> Going once...
01:45:37 <inode0> ?
01:45:41 <jsmith> => inode0
01:45:52 <inode0> can we all get scarves at VT? :-)
01:45:58 <rbergeron> NO NO
01:46:12 <inode0> oh, they have nice scarves
01:46:13 <rbergeron> Do either schools have really obnoxious hats that i can buy for max?
01:46:22 <VileGent> i am sure the book store would love your business
01:46:23 <rbergeron> :)
01:46:24 <inode0> not from the school
01:46:44 <jsmith> Going twice...
01:46:51 <inode0> ok, sorry, my sucking up for a homemade scarf failed
01:46:59 <VileGent> close to where Fudpub is
01:47:21 <jsmith> ... and if there are no further (serious) questions, let's open it up for voting:
01:47:23 <VileGent> rbergeron,  i will check on the hat for max
01:47:47 <jsmith> Please indicate your vote by typing "Blacksburg" or "Olin" as your preferred location
01:47:53 * jsmith will tally the votes
01:48:01 <inode0> Blacksburg
01:48:05 * mock votes blacksburg
01:48:17 * SGS votes blacksburg
01:48:34 * VileGent votes blacksburg
01:48:39 <jsmith> VileGent, sdziallas: You're both allowed to vote as well :-)
01:49:01 * sdziallas notes that, votes for Olin.
01:49:22 <VileGent> add a vote for Olin for Mel since she couldnt be here
01:49:37 <rbergeron> blacksburg.
01:49:48 <jsmith> VileGent: Duly noted :-)
01:50:10 <jsmith> VileGent: She contacted me earlier to make sure her preference was known :-)
01:50:33 * jsmith waits a little while longer for any additional votes
01:53:00 * sdziallas thinks we can wrap this.
01:53:06 <jsmith> OK, let's call it a meeting
01:53:19 <jsmith> Thanks again to everyone, especially to the bidding parties.
01:53:51 <jsmith> I'll take the feedback I've received here, along with any last-minute comments between now and Friday, and announce the final decision on Friday
01:54:42 <jsmith> #endmeeting