19:01:01 <stickster> #startmeeting FUDCon Tempe planning (Agenda: https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/report/9)
19:01:01 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Oct 11 19:01:01 2010 UTC.  The chair is stickster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:01:01 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:01:08 <stickster> #meetingname FUDCon Tempe planning
19:01:08 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fudcon_tempe_planning'
19:01:24 <stickster> #topic Roll call!
19:01:29 * SMParrish here
19:01:31 * stickster 
19:01:31 * rbergeron is here cuz she just got here
19:01:35 <stickster> :-)
19:01:40 <stickster> #chair SMParrish rbergeron
19:01:40 <zodbot> Current chairs: SMParrish rbergeron stickster
19:02:29 <stickster> I thought I saw rrix around too
19:02:31 * abadger1999 in bleachers
19:02:36 <stickster> #chair abadger1999
19:02:36 <zodbot> Current chairs: SMParrish abadger1999 rbergeron stickster
19:02:39 <stickster> Hi Toshio!
19:02:43 <abadger1999> hola
19:02:44 <rbergeron> rrix has a lecture that starts at the same time
19:02:44 * rrix is around
19:02:47 <rbergeron> err, a lab
19:02:49 <stickster> #chair rrix
19:02:49 <zodbot> Current chairs: SMParrish abadger1999 rbergeron rrix stickster
19:02:54 <rrix> lecture, but I'm here
19:03:05 <rbergeron> so sometimes he can pop in, or not, but he said he has his laptop on so we can ping him if we delegate him to-do's
19:03:08 <rbergeron> :)
19:03:08 <stickster> OK, feel free to ignore us and get an education :-)
19:03:11 <smooge> sort of here
19:03:18 <stickster> #chair smooge
19:03:18 <zodbot> Current chairs: SMParrish abadger1999 rbergeron rrix smooge stickster
19:03:21 <rbergeron> heya abadger1999 :)
19:03:23 <rrix> stickster: exactly why I'm here :)
19:03:31 * ianweller takes a seat in the back
19:03:39 <stickster> #info present SMParrish abadger1999 rbergeron rrix smooge stickster ianweller
19:03:46 <stickster> #chair ianweller
19:03:46 <zodbot> Current chairs: SMParrish abadger1999 ianweller rbergeron rrix smooge stickster
19:03:52 * rrix notes that he may be in another Screen window debugging his Kolab install, but he'll get nickpings
19:04:03 <stickster> #topic Last week's action items
19:04:03 * ianweller sits in the chair stickster just gave him
19:04:14 <stickster> #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fudcon-planning/2010-10-04/fudcon_tempe_planning.2010-10-04-19.02.html <-- look for "Action items" summary partway down
19:04:31 * herlo is here...
19:04:34 <stickster> I completed #5, still have a todo for #7
19:04:37 <stickster> #chair herlo
19:04:37 <zodbot> Current chairs: SMParrish abadger1999 herlo ianweller rbergeron rrix smooge stickster
19:04:45 <stickster> #info herlo present too!
19:04:59 <stickster> #action stickster    7. draft email to ASU CISDE faculty with status update
19:05:01 <stickster> #undo
19:05:01 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x2b52324d7790>
19:05:04 <stickster> I paste too fast.
19:05:09 <stickster> #action stickster draft email to ASU CISDE faculty with status update
19:05:40 <pcalarco> pcalarco is here too
19:05:42 <stickster> #info SMParrish had an update from Walter @SL, pbrobinson's ticket was approved and should be bought soon
19:05:46 <stickster> #chair pcalarco
19:05:46 <zodbot> Current chairs: SMParrish abadger1999 herlo ianweller pcalarco rbergeron rrix smooge stickster
19:05:46 <rbergeron> #info rbergeron filed ticket with Design (last week's action item #3)
19:06:07 <rbergeron> #info rbergeron still needs to work with herlo on prospectus because that didn't happen at UTOSC
19:06:12 <rbergeron> err
19:06:31 <rbergeron> #action rbergeron still needs to work with herlo on prospectus because that didn't happen at UTOSC
19:06:48 <herlo> rbergeron: uh, I thought it was in good shape
19:06:53 <herlo> what remains??
19:07:09 <rbergeron> herlo: i think we were going to do the other page?
19:07:17 <rbergeron> there were two parts and i thought one page was still needing some final bits on it
19:07:25 * rbergeron would have to drag out her memory and see
19:07:42 <herlo> maybe, but I think the sponsorship page is pretty well done, maybe just adding more sponsorship options....
19:07:59 <herlo> rbergeron: I'll work with you on it this week, k?
19:08:11 <rbergeron> #action rbergeron to update ticket / wiki with action item #6 (she and rrix scouted out the light rail stuff and directions last night while in tempe)
19:08:23 <rbergeron> herlo: I think it was that maybe we need to stick it in pdf format and make it look pretty
19:08:26 <rbergeron> rather than send people to a webpage
19:08:35 <rbergeron> and that's why i filed the design ticket to get a nice pretty template
19:08:38 <herlo> rbergeron: indeed
19:08:41 * rbergeron jogs her memory
19:09:03 <rbergeron> and I think that's all the action items, stickster :)
19:09:06 <stickster> Hm, that's going to be difficult to read next week, let me jigger that a bit...
19:09:07 <stickster> #undo
19:09:08 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x2b523268bb50>
19:09:43 <rrix> I'm planning on taking a trip to the airport wednesday and making ++verbose directions to the hotel (this wasn't on that list, but was an action item)
19:09:46 <stickster> #action rbergeron to update ticket/wiki with light rail information she and Ryan gathered in Tempe
19:10:04 <stickster> Hm, wait, I didn't read yours well, it was actually pretty clear. What's wrong with my brain today? Sorry rbergeron
19:10:13 <stickster> Well, in any case we've got it covered :-)
19:10:42 <stickster> SMParrish: Are you staying after Bradley to get that ticket purchased?
19:10:56 <SMParrish> stickster: Yes I am
19:10:58 <stickster> #action SMParrish pursue pbrobinson's airfare with Bradley to get purchasing done
19:11:01 <rbergeron> stickster: yes. I was just covering the physical directions from light rail to hotel
19:11:10 <stickster> Yup
19:11:11 <rbergeron> rrix is going to actually go from the airport
19:11:13 <rbergeron> on the light rail
19:11:15 <rbergeron> like
19:11:27 <rrix> Right
19:11:28 <rbergeron> and then to hotel
19:11:43 <stickster> #action rrix update ticket/wiki with light rail information from airport to hotel
19:11:46 <rbergeron> and then back to $awesomedorm
19:11:47 <stickster> Coolio
19:12:15 <rbergeron> i think i actually filed the design ticket during the meeting last week
19:12:24 <stickster> #topic https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/49 (GoDaddy sponsorship)
19:13:08 * stickster heard that quaid wanted to discuss this a bit, just invited him over
19:13:14 <stickster> I sent this earlier: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/fudcon-planning/2010-October/001300.html
19:13:19 <SMParrish> So what do people have against GoDaddy
19:13:35 <SMParrish> Besides their commercials
19:14:06 <ianweller> i have grudges against godaddy that are totally irrelevant to their sponsorship of this event
19:14:25 * rrix notes that he could also find issues with other possible sponsors
19:14:30 * inode0 has something against requesting their sponsorship 6 weeks ago, not hearing one objection, and now changing our minds
19:15:03 <ianweller> inode0: that's what i'd be against more than this discussion.
19:15:18 * stickster notes that GoDaddy employees are probably coming to the conference and we welcome their participation
19:15:42 <inode0> that isn't the issue
19:16:17 <stickster> inode0: I posted my thoughts as a contributor, but it's not my call to make. So there's no "collective mind made up," we're just trying to figure out the issue right now.
19:16:32 * rbergeron notes that godaddy also offers fedora as one of their cloud / hosted OS's other than windows and centos and i don't want to break that either :)
19:17:14 * stickster was hoping quaid would be here to share his thoughts since from what inode0 and rbergeron told me, he had raised a loud voice about this, and we should hear him out
19:17:19 <inode0> stickster: were those your thoughts before today?
19:17:27 * herlo thinks that running a conference makes decisions like this hard.  I honestly think that unless you are working on making FUDCon happen, you don't get an opinion -- meritocracy would be my reasoning...
19:18:04 <stickster> inode0: I hadn't really thought about any subliminal or unspoken message we might be sending before I heard about the objection and thought about it a bit
19:18:05 * inode0 had the impression he was encouraged in this for the past weeks
19:18:36 <stickster> When I heard about quaid's objection, I thought, "Hm, I hadn't thought of that," and ruminated on it a bit over the weekend
19:18:52 <SMParrish> stickster: what is his objection
19:18:53 <herlo> stickster: can you give us the gist of his complaint?
19:19:23 <stickster> But to be clear, as I stated earlier, I don't consider myself to be the sole decision maker here. I'm here to facilitate meetings, help make sure our budget is tracked and Red Hat pays for things in an efficient way, and otherwise be a part of the team
19:20:11 <abadger1999> quaid: Hey, I think we're currently in the "What is the precise complaint against GoDaddy?" stage.
19:20:34 <stickster> quaid: Thanks for coming over
19:20:40 <quaid> sure, happy to oblige
19:20:50 <quaid> ... since I made the biggest stink first :)
19:21:07 <quaid> #link http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Go_Daddy%27s_advertising
19:21:47 <quaid> the main point is that enough people identify them with sexist advertising that associating with them tells all those people (who include folks such as me) that their comfort and inclusion isn't important to us.
19:21:57 <quaid> especially knowing about the situation, v. ignorance (which happens)
19:23:39 * stickster would like to be precise about what we mean by "associating with them." Because likely GoDaddy employees will be at FUDCon and it should be clear that they are welcome just like anyone else.
19:23:45 <quaid> agreed
19:24:24 <stickster> quaid: I'm presuming you mean that a sponsorship implies to some people an endorsement by Fedora?
19:24:33 <quaid> yes, thanks for clarifying that
19:24:39 <inode0> it is the other way around
19:24:43 <quaid> that's exactly what I think people see a sponsorship means
19:24:48 * ke4qqq thinks we don't ban others from participating(contributing) who also have geek feminism wiki entries. Whether they contribute filthy lucre or code, or pictures strikes me as irrelevant.
19:25:01 <quaid> inode0: sadly, we can't go in to other people's minds and adjust their thinking, so, yes, it is perceived both ways.
19:25:17 <ke4qqq> really I think it would be the opposite - godaddy endorsing fedora, google endorsing fedora, not the other way around
19:25:35 <quaid> ke4qqq: your point falls apart at this scale, though
19:25:51 <quaid> being inclusive of people who are sexist is fine; don't kick them out, help them learn better.
19:25:57 <quaid> but taking a sponsorship implies something different
19:25:59 <quaid> higher profile, etc.
19:26:05 <herlo> maybe it could come down to they way they are sponsors.  I can see a couple ways to improve this...
19:26:29 <quaid> and regardless of what ke4qqq and inode0 think, we are going to send a clear signal with this sponsorship that is opposite of what you are saying and probably intending.
19:26:41 <rrix> I think Toshio raised a fairly valid point, as well; our int'l contributors are coming to a state that many people have complained is 'racist' and is being boycotted by more than one US city, but we are still holding the event here because it was put together by community members ina  transparent way.
19:26:51 <quaid> herlo: I doubt it, unless it's just that they can come and do their own thing like anyone else.
19:26:53 <rrix> Is fedora a racist distribution because of where we hold our event as well?
19:27:07 <rrix> I'm just drawing parallels here :)
19:27:15 <quaid> the parallels don't hold together
19:27:16 <ke4qqq> rrix: just xenophobic :)
19:27:25 <quaid> people thing all sorts of things about the US
19:27:33 <quaid> and know enough to separate the people from the gov't
19:27:33 <rrix> Why don't they? because it's sex, not race?
19:27:48 <quaid> but at the scale of FUDCon and GoDaddy, it's much more of a 1:1 relationship.
19:27:59 <quaid> rrix: because you are making a false equivalence
19:28:00 * rrix sighs and listens to his lecture
19:28:04 <quaid> the scale and items are not directly related
19:28:08 <SMParrish> I would hope that those who attend FUDCon would have  more open mind and not let something like this influence them.. I may not like their ads but the provide a good service and their money is just a green as everyone else's
19:28:47 <quaid> SMParrish: thanks
19:28:52 <quaid> SMParrish: I feel I have an open mind
19:29:00 <quaid> SMParrish: and I am highly offended by their adverts
19:29:17 <quaid> I am the kind of person who will _definitely_ feel sidelined and review if I want to be there.
19:29:33 <quaid> and I'm not a woman, I'm just ... I dunno, a thinking human?
19:29:38 * stickster wonders how e.g. mchua, mizmo might feel.
19:29:42 <ke4qqq> same as with nicu - I may not like his artistic endeavors, and may consider them sexist, but it doesn't mean that he doesn't do good work, or that I don't want his work in fedora, or that I wouldn't vote to sponsor his attendance at fudcon (if I had any say in the matter).
19:29:46 <quaid> look bottom line:
19:29:55 <quaid> the experts are telling us that this is a too sexist association to make.
19:30:04 <SMParrish> Not saying you dont but you are assuming others attending FUDCon will be offended by them.  I also am offended by the ads but they are sponsoring FUDCon, FUDcon and Fedora are not sponsoring GoDaddy
19:30:10 <ke4qqq> experts??
19:30:11 <quaid> if these expert feminists were kernel engineers talking about code, would you question them?
19:30:12 <stickster> quaid: Which experts?
19:30:25 <quaid> geek feminism is maintained by experts
19:30:35 <quaid> which none of here are
19:30:42 <quaid> s/of/of us/
19:31:07 <quaid> SMParrish: you all act as if taking money from someone doesn't make an association
19:31:11 <stickster> Well... that page is maintained by one person AFAICT and I have a different definition of "expert," but I know I'm not one for sure.
19:31:20 <quaid> don't we talk about how corporations and lobbyists fund elections may be a problem?
19:31:33 <quaid> stickster: the site is maintained and read over by experts, yeah
19:31:35 <rrix> Sure, and Google probably does that, in fact.
19:31:46 <quaid> people with over 10,000 hours of experience as feminist thinkers, researchers, etc.
19:31:50 <quaid> that's my simple definition
19:31:53 <quaid> people with degrees in the subject
19:31:58 <quaid> people who speak int'l about the subject
19:32:02 <herlo> quaid: whether or not we are experts here, it's a hard problem to address, because having money can help more contributors get there.
19:32:03 <quaid> again ...
19:32:09 <quaid> if this were technical code thing . ...
19:32:17 <quaid> or diana talking about sociology, would you all question this so much?
19:32:22 <ke4qqq> we'd judge the code on it's merit
19:32:30 <ke4qqq> as it is, money has no merit one way or another
19:32:31 <quaid> ke4qqq: not me, I don't code
19:32:33 <quaid> I'd trust the experts
19:32:37 <quaid> disagree
19:32:42 <quaid> money has lots of merit
19:32:48 <ke4qqq> we don't judge nicus fedora artwork based on his other artwork, doe we?
19:32:58 <quaid> or we wouldn't have terms such as "blood money" and "30 pieces of silver" would we>
19:32:59 <SMParrish> that page was created ove a year ago and only has 3 responses.
19:33:02 <quaid> ke4qqq: different scale!
19:33:09 <quaid> false equivalence
19:33:17 <ke4qqq> provided godaddy's sponsorship isn't sexist why don't we judge it on what it is
19:33:23 <abadger1999> quaid: Welll..... if we weren't holding this in Arizona, I migt agree with you... but really, I had a hard time deciding to come to fudcon this time and had to internalize the rationale that there are problems with the venue but we have to live with that anywhere...
19:33:25 <quaid> Nicu and GD are not equivalent, please!
19:33:41 <quaid> ke4qqq: sponsorship from them puts us clearly on one side of a line
19:33:48 <quaid> my job is to tell all of you that you are crossing that line
19:33:54 <quaid> if you WANT to cross it, fine
19:34:00 <quaid> but don't pretend
19:34:02 <quaid> it's not there
19:34:17 <quaid> because you decided what a feminist expert is and that you probably know as much as they do ...
19:34:37 <quaid> abadger1999: are we being sponsored by the state of Arizona?
19:34:53 <quaid> otherwise, false equivalence
19:35:06 <abadger1999> quaid: We made the decision to disregard people calling for boycotts of Arizona and hold the event there anyway.
19:35:14 <inode0> since it is held at a state university they likely are subsidizing it in part
19:35:14 <quaid> look, I've clearly been doing more research and thinking here than all who have spoken so far
19:35:20 <abadger1999> quaid: So to me... it's even worse.
19:35:25 <SMParrish> My wife says she is offended by the ads but that would not stop her from attending an event she had an interest in
19:35:27 <quaid> and my research is clear, and that's what it is
19:35:40 <ke4qqq> no, I've talked with exactly one female who has brought it up - and she just argued to becareful how we allowed them advertise, the rest of this conversation has been with males.
19:35:59 <quaid> ke4qqq: being a woman doesn't make one a feminist :)
19:36:07 <quaid> nor an expert at anything other than being a woman
19:36:13 <quaid> so that is informative but not decisive.
19:36:14 <herlo> quaid: I think we're going down the wrong road here.  Sure, you are not happy with their advertising, but are you happy with getting more contributors to FUDCon?  What is this line we're crossing?  Can you clearly define it for us?  I don't see how you can easily say "we'll take this one, but not that one" without some set of rules....
19:36:18 <ke4qqq> quaid: indeed :)
19:36:33 <quaid> herlo: so you think GD is going to bring us so much more
19:36:37 <herlo> let's define those, why they are good or bad...
19:36:47 <quaid> that it's worth telling 55% of the population, "You don't matter as much to us,"?
19:36:47 <herlo> quaid: don't know, depends on the amounts...
19:36:59 <stickster> Look, instead of arguing about feminism, which is getting us nowhere for actual planning...
19:37:00 <quaid> I can decide without knowing amounts
19:37:02 <herlo> and how many people we can help
19:37:07 * rbergeron sighs
19:37:09 <stickster> I think we can all acknowledge that there are some people who will share quaid's viewpoint, and some that will not. Let's turn to a practical matter -- inode0 has been talking to GD about a sponsorship, and my guess is he is not interested in having egg on his face with them, nor the community.
19:37:27 <ke4qqq> +1
19:37:37 <quaid> stickster: that is exactly the point -- we don't have to agree to recognie the egg is coming and will be stinky.
19:37:40 <herlo> thus my questions.  I'm not talking specifics, I'm asking 'what are the rules?"
19:37:58 <stickster> I think the people who are planning FUDCon, including inode0, should think about the ramifications and make a decision on whether or not to pursue this sponsorship.
19:38:00 <quaid> herlo: is that what this committe is doing here? deciding Fedora's policy?
19:38:05 <quaid> how about setting a precedent first?
19:38:16 <rrix> quaid: I think the egg stickster is talking about is "inode0 did a shitton of work getting GD to sponsor us, only to tell them our community disapproves"
19:38:29 <ke4qqq> stickster: hasn't that question already been asked and answered 6 weeks ago?
19:38:37 <herlo> quaid: I don't know about defining Fedora's policy, but a guideline about how to get sponsorships for FUDCon
19:38:45 <quaid> rrix: sure, I was referring to the "nor the community" side
19:39:00 <quaid> I definitely don't mean to be causing inode0 problems, I know I am
19:39:01 * rrix thinks this is becoming too emotional, and not enough actual discourse or fudcon planning. I'll bbl.
19:39:09 <quaid> if I had known earlier, I would have headed him off at the pass!
19:39:14 <rrix> I need to do class-stuff
19:39:21 <herlo> quaid: so it seems we're setting a precedent either way
19:39:29 <quaid> yes, we should
19:40:04 <stickster> ke4qqq: I don't know that anyone considered the ramifications about whether we'd be ticking off community members. It was never discussed in a meeting or on list that I saw.
19:40:17 <stickster> ke4qqq: Otherwise I would certainly have chimed in earlier with my opinion :-)
19:41:53 <stickster> I'm not really comfortable with the yardstick being, "Will this make someone feel uncomfortable" -- rather, I'm thinking about a level above, being "Will this make people think we are intentionally trying to make them feel uncomfortable"
19:41:57 <herlo> I agree that this is a hard problem.
19:42:24 * herlo can honestly say that he doesn't think the latter is true
19:42:25 <ke4qqq> ??? I see 6 different threads in which Godaddy appears (4 of them meeting minutes from the list) There's a ticket in trac for it. How was GD sponsorship not discussed. Or am I misreading your line?
19:42:47 <rbergeron> I think what stickster is sayign is that he had not considered the possible offensiveness of godaddy.
19:42:49 <stickster> ke4qqq: We never discussed any fallout from how people feel about their ad campaigns
19:42:55 <ke4qqq> ahhh ok
19:42:56 <stickster> rbergeron: Right
19:42:57 * ke4qqq did misread
19:43:18 <quaid> stickster: there aren't that many companies that have made a 5 year ad campaign that is as egregious
19:43:19 <stickster> Absolutely, inode0 was pursuing GD in good faith
19:43:20 <inode0> have we discussed possible fallout from google's _________?
19:43:33 <stickster> quaid: <$BEER_COMPANY>
19:43:37 <quaid> stickster: so I'm not sure we have to be careful with such a yardstick
19:43:51 <quaid> stickster: I would also likely recommend against such a sponsorship
19:44:02 <stickster> As if we'd get one :-D
19:44:03 <quaid> for the sexism and the alcohol
19:44:26 <inode0> Red Hat normally buys the booze
19:45:26 <quaid> stickster: I think your higher level is met here
19:45:33 <stickster> So we are at :45 and we need to wrap up this discussion. What's the actionable proposal on the table?
19:45:34 <quaid> the GD case is well known and discussed
19:45:35 * inode0 suggests we all go on about the rest of the meeting now, think about this for a week, revisit then
19:46:09 <quaid> meaning that, now that you know  of the situation, to choose to take their sponsorship sends a clear message that we are intentionally not caring about the Otherinig of half of the human population.
19:46:28 <stickster> Um, that's not what I said exactly
19:46:31 <quaid> and the Othering of the rest of us geeks who are targetted by our gender to be sold IT via sex.
19:46:36 * ke4qqq thinks that we missed a few logical leaps there
19:46:40 <stickster> ke4qqq: I agree
19:46:42 * rbergeron notes that godaddy has done plenty of thigns *for* the other half of the human population in this area of the country
19:46:42 <pcalarco> inode0: +1
19:46:53 <quaid> ke4qqq: ok, which ones
19:47:15 <quaid> I'm making some leaps, yes, expecting that as a trusted advisor who has been doing his research, you all will give _some_ creedence to what I am saying.
19:47:17 <stickster> quaid: Let's carry on after this meeting. There are other things we need to get through and then we can come back to dissecting dialectics
19:47:26 <quaid> no worries, I am here but to serve.
19:47:27 <stickster> quaid: No problem with the credence here
19:47:35 * quaid lurks
19:47:41 <stickster> I acknowledge this is a thorny issue and we'll come back to it.
19:48:31 <stickster> #agreed We'll continue to talk about this after the meeting and on the list, and thereby come to a decision on what to do, making sure that inode0 is not left twisting in the wind no matter what.
19:49:08 <stickster> #topic https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/19 (Internet pipe)
19:49:12 <stickster> #info
19:49:13 <stickster> oops
19:49:15 <stickster> #undo
19:49:15 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x2b5233257e10>
19:49:41 <stickster> #info Zach (Ryan's contact) has been in contact with ASU and Qwest about the possibility of extending their VPN out to the hotel for the weekend.
19:50:27 <stickster> I wrote some additional email into that conversation last week to make sure everyone understands that we (Fedora) aren't changing our request to ASU at this time -- Zach is fact-finding so we can learn what our options and costs are.
19:51:29 <stickster> #info jsmith-away is out today on travel back from UTOSC and there
19:51:34 <stickster> argh!
19:51:36 <stickster> #undo
19:51:36 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x2b523250e250>
19:51:43 <stickster> #info jsmith-away is out today on travel back from UTOSC and there's no update to his ticket from last week.
19:52:19 <stickster> #action stickster ping jsmith to find out if his guy has done his on-site visit yet.
19:52:32 <stickster> rrix: *: Anything else on this?
19:52:55 <rbergeron> i think rrix was going to his next class
19:53:37 <stickster> Oops rbergeron, you're right -- I think my update above was everything up 'til now, so moving on...
19:54:06 <stickster> #topic https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/69 (design for T-shirt)
19:54:10 <stickster> pcalarco: It's all yours!
19:54:37 <pcalarco> okay, so I've put in a new design ticket to ask for some help with the t-short design
19:54:52 <pcalarco> s/ t--shirt
19:55:51 <pcalarco> and we'll ask pricing from both the local vendor that rbergeron identified, and then also perhaps our national vendor, Screen Printed Products in Ohio, and then a fall back is Red Hat swag contacts
19:56:21 <pcalarco> it looks like we spent $1550 for 130 shirts in Toronto; is that the budget for this FUDCon too?
19:56:29 <stickster> pcalarco: Right -- I have a non-BrandFuel vendor identified that we can use if all else fails
19:56:39 <SMParrish> Sorry have to run out  will check the logs later
19:56:47 <stickster> pcalarco: Sure, let's say $1500 for now
19:56:54 <rbergeron> can we put a sunshine on the tee shirts? :)
19:56:55 <stickster> pcalarco: I'm betting we can bring 130 shirts in much cheaper though
19:57:10 <stickster> And if we choose to up the number, or do something else with the savings, I'm OK with that.
19:57:14 <rbergeron> if we can get more within budget is that allowed?
19:57:15 <rbergeron> ok
19:57:17 <pcalarco> rbergeron: I think adding a local touch is very nice, yes
19:57:54 <pcalarco> I suggested starting out with past FUDCon designs; these are hard to find on the wiki, though
19:58:20 <stickster> #agreed Keep $1500 budget line item for this, and depending on prices we can order extras or apply savings elsewhere.
19:58:27 <stickster> pcalarco: Hang on -- I can find some for you
19:58:36 <pcalarco> that's about all I have on this for now
19:58:49 <stickster> #link http://fedorapeople.org/groups/designteam/FUDcon/ <-- design team resources for FUDCon incl. T-shirts IIRC
19:58:59 <stickster> pcalarco: Thanks so much for working on this!
19:59:13 <pcalarco> stickster: awesome, thank you.  I will add this to the Design ticket
19:59:37 <pcalarco> stickster: glad to help!
19:59:44 * stickster will add clarification to ticket #70 if needed
20:00:56 * stickster notes that rbergeron already talked about ticket #47
20:01:01 <stickster> So that brings us to the end of the agenda.
20:01:12 <stickster> #topic AOB (all other business)
20:01:16 <stickster> open floor!
20:02:08 <rbergeron> pcalarco: can we add to the ticket that it would be nice if we could order some women's sized shirts
20:02:20 <rbergeron> or women's fit aka non-tent structure :)
20:02:46 <pcalarco> rbergeron: yes, certainly, thx
20:02:53 <rbergeron> no, thank you :)
20:03:04 * rbergeron would be delighted
20:03:23 <stickster> rbergeron: We will totally do that
20:03:24 <rrix> stickster: I'm at the same spot as you currently wrt to #19
20:03:31 <stickster> rrix: Okeydoke, thanks
20:03:54 * stickster will hold open until :05 for further AOB
20:04:29 <herlo> another thought on the shirts, we might want to do pre-ordering to a certain date, because I bet we could sell extra shirts at the event...
20:04:53 <pcalarco> herlo: +1
20:04:55 <herlo> and if so, we should consider having a few extras in each size (like 6-24 of every size)
20:05:21 <stickster> herlo: My bet is that shirts won't run us more than $7 or so apiece, and we can easily order 200 on our budget.
20:05:26 <herlo> which for the budget I see, means we could do close to 250 by asking people to purchase shirts...
20:05:36 <rbergeron> herlo / pcalarco: what we can do is have the design available at the tee shirt store across the street or the one on campus (both same vendor)
20:05:41 <herlo> stickster: yeah, and raise a bit of funds too...
20:05:43 <rbergeron> if people want more, they can make them in about an hour
20:05:48 <stickster> herlo: The problem is where to put the funds. The common problem.
20:05:50 <herlo> rbergeron: awesome!!
20:06:01 <herlo> stickster: oright
20:06:04 <rbergeron> and if we want to stock them with other fedora logos they can go get those, too.
20:06:05 <herlo> gah!
20:06:17 <pcalarco> rbergeon: that's a great idea
20:06:38 <herlo> this goes back to getting a way to collect funds from people
20:06:42 <rbergeron> and i'm sure we can tell them some combinations that are approvable for peeople to choose from
20:07:01 <stickster> herlo: Outside scope of this meeting though :-) We can discuss after we finish discussing quaid's topic later if you like :-)
20:07:07 <herlo> rbergeron: can they just collect monies at the location
20:07:13 <herlo> stickster: yes, totally understand
20:07:20 <rbergeron> herlo: yes, it's a store you walk into
20:07:33 <rbergeron> if you want a fudcon onesie for your little one, you could have them make one :)
20:07:36 <stickster> rbergeron: Let's discuss this on the list and if we can pull it off we'll add a ticket for it
20:07:40 <herlo> rbergeron: exactly
20:08:32 * rbergeron will get herself a fudcon apron, lol
20:08:35 <rbergeron> stickster: sounds good
20:09:25 <rbergeron> #action rbergeron to discuss brandxstore.com on list for additional tee shirt options
20:10:37 <stickster> AOB?
20:11:45 <stickster> OK everyone, thanks for coming!
20:11:51 <stickster> #endmeeting