18:01:39 <stickster> #startmeeting FUDCon subsidy meeting #1 (Queue: http://2tu.us/2lr0)
18:01:39 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Aug 25 18:01:39 2010 UTC.  The chair is stickster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:01:39 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01:54 <stickster> #meetingname FUDCon subsidies
18:01:54 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fudcon_subsidies'
18:01:58 <stickster> #topic Roll call
18:02:00 * stickster 
18:02:28 * rbergeron 
18:02:28 * gwerra 
18:03:17 <rrix> Oh, that meeting
18:03:19 <rrix> I'm here!
18:03:28 * biertie is here
18:03:29 <rbergeron> rrix :)
18:03:43 <stickster> #link http://tinyurl.com/fudcon-tempe-2011-subq <-- Spreadsheet version
18:03:45 * rrix will have to disappear halfway through to scuttle to class
18:04:23 <stickster> #undo
18:04:23 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Link object at 0x17ee9590>
18:04:26 <stickster> Argh, wrong link.
18:04:28 <rbergeron> lol
18:04:31 * abadger1999 sorta here... on phone
18:04:33 <rbergeron> i was like... waht did i do wrong
18:04:46 <rbergeron> abadger1999: BoFA is the evil
18:05:02 <abadger1999> No doubt.
18:05:25 <stickster> #link http://2tu.us/2lr3 <-- Spreadsheet version
18:05:30 <stickster> OK, there we go
18:05:59 <stickster> #topic Order of operations
18:06:15 <stickster> OK, what I'd like to do is go through the following, in order:
18:06:27 <stickster> 1. Go over priorities for FUDCon subsidies
18:06:38 <stickster> 2. Look at the list of NA requestors and see what we can grant
18:06:51 <stickster> 3. Look at the list of non-NA requestors and see what we can grant
18:07:02 <stickster> I suspect that 1 & 2 will be pretty short.
18:07:18 <stickster> Any additions/corrections?
18:08:35 * rbergeron wonders if this is the first of several rounds?
18:08:45 <stickster> rbergeron: It is, thus "meeting #1" :-)
18:08:51 <rbergeron> Because looking at the list we could easily give away everything today.
18:08:52 <rbergeron> lol
18:08:53 <rbergeron> okay!
18:09:07 <abadger1999> :-)
18:09:16 <stickster> Because anything we can't grant today, we may have to revisit later (as in the case of people who haven't told us sufficiently what they plan to accomplish with the subsidy)
18:09:25 <stickster> Does that make sense?
18:09:31 * rbergeron nods
18:10:49 <stickster> OK.  The priorities I see are the following, not ordered:
18:10:56 <stickster> 1. Have one or two non-NA visitors from each region whose goals include learning how we set up FUDCon events, so they can take that back to their regions.
18:11:03 <stickster> 2. Ensure that any active NA contributor who can accomplish something meaningful at FUDCon has the opportunity to do so.
18:11:11 <stickster> 3. Don't give away the entire pot of money in one fell swoop, or at least ascertain whether we may need a little more in the kitty.
18:12:20 <stickster> Now, you might be thinking that 3 is impossible given the current queue. But, consider the following: (a) We have four requestors from the LATAM region in the queue. (b) spevack  has said he'd be willing to fund someone from each region out of discretionary Community Architecture funding -- i.e., not counting directly against the FUDCon "budget".
18:12:51 <rbergeron> oh, excellent
18:13:06 <rrix> win
18:14:08 <stickster> What I would suggest we do, to be fair to Max, and also to make the planning easier, is that we try to pick up hotel costs for those travelers he's willing to fund, and let him take care of the airfare.
18:14:21 <stickster> That really makes the accounting and the process of expensing those things easier.
18:14:58 <stickster> In a sense Max's CA budget may really be picking up both bills, but we're just splitting up which pot of money is accounting for each.
18:15:31 <stickster> And I think it will keep us oriented on making sure we bring in the right people, if we have to deal with some expenditure for every person we subsidize.
18:15:34 <stickster> Thoughts?
18:16:02 <stickster> *where "the right people" == people who can accomplish something meaningful at FUDCon for Fedora and/or their region
18:16:13 <rbergeron> so - i'm assuming when you say that you mean, we would pick up hotel costs for say, 2 people from each region, and he might pick up 2 airfares?
18:16:43 <rbergeron> Maybe i'm not following what you mean that line about max's CA budget and the fudcon budget - are you talking about applying that to the international fudcon ppl, or... ?
18:16:59 <stickster> Let me back up a second, rbergeron.
18:17:03 <rbergeron> yes, plz :)
18:17:11 <stickster> You guys should be aware that Comm-Arch has a budget for major Fedora events in each quarter.
18:17:20 <rbergeron> yup.
18:17:47 <stickster> That budget is usually something like $20K. We have the ability to use a bit more for this event because of the fact we are holding it away from a Red Hat office, thus we knew in advance we'd need to move more people to the event.
18:18:14 * rbergeron nods
18:18:20 <stickster> We are lowering the impact on that $20K already by buying some airfares in advance for Red Hat people both on the Fedora Engineering team and on Max's Comm-Arch team.
18:18:40 <stickster> We will also pay a few strategic things early like airfares for non-NA people visiting.
18:19:18 <rbergeron> Engineering team attendance comes out of engineering budget, and commarch team comes out of their own travel budget, is that correct?
18:19:21 <rbergeron> Or not correct?
18:19:26 <stickster> For the most part, that is correct.
18:19:47 <stickster> If there's any spillover, Max, Spot, Jared and I will work that out behind the scenes and no one else needs to worry about it.
18:19:50 * rbergeron knows that enegineering budget is pretty... miniscule.
18:19:51 <rbergeron> okay.
18:20:05 <stickster> So is this a little clearer now?
18:20:10 <stickster> What I am proposing...
18:20:55 * stickster interrupts himself to make one more point
18:21:31 <stickster> The FUDCon Tempe occurs in Red Hat's fiscal Q4 (Dec-Feb).  Q2 is for all practical purposes over already. Q3 runs from Sept-Nov.
18:21:37 * stickster returns to former flow.
18:21:41 <stickster> What I am proposing...
18:22:10 <stickster> is that we will move a couple of these non-NA airfares into Q3 and Max will pay them, leaving us a little more cushion in the major FUDCon event set-aside in Q4.
18:22:24 <rbergeron> okay.
18:22:25 <stickster> We will account for the hotel in Q4, since that's when we *have* to pay that cost (at checkout).
18:22:30 * rbergeron nods
18:22:34 <rbergeron> okay, i get it now. :)
18:22:58 <stickster> This might seem like accounting details, but it's important that we know how much we're spending in each quarter so we don't surprise spevack in Q4.
18:23:10 <stickster> We also don't want to surprise jsmith-away or spot. :-)
18:23:29 * rbergeron grins
18:24:07 * stickster should have #topic'd a while ago
18:24:26 <stickster> #topic Priorities
18:24:52 <stickster> #info 1. Get a couple people from each region to FUDCon Tempe so they can learn more about how to set up a FUDCon, from the organizers themselves
18:25:53 <stickster> #info 2. Help as many NA contributors as possible to attend FUDCon Tempe who can accomplish meaningful things there
18:26:49 <stickster> #info 3. Try to stay close to our $20K budget in Q4, and keep Q3 spread in spevack's budget reasonable as well.
18:27:28 <stickster> #info 4. Since leeway there is close to nil, stay completely within spot and jsmith's Q3 and Q4 budget.
18:27:35 <stickster> rbergeron: Sound good?
18:28:25 <rbergeron> Yes.
18:28:32 <stickster> OK. Shall we start with some NA folks then?
18:28:53 <rbergeron> yes please!
18:29:08 * stickster notes, if anyone gets lost on the queue, there's a link on the fudcon-planning wiki at https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning
18:29:28 <stickster> #topic https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/9 (Pascal Calarco)
18:30:15 <rbergeron> lodging cost is based on what?
18:30:20 <rbergeron> splitting a room over 4 nights?
18:30:29 <inode0> +1 no brainer
18:30:32 <stickster> rbergeron: Lodging cost is based on $60 per room night (which is 1/2 the cost of a room)
18:30:47 <stickster> We should probably just bump this to $240 for most people's stay (4 nights) to be safe.
18:30:57 * rbergeron nods
18:31:28 <rbergeron> yes - some people can't get back on sunday unless they leave at like 10am.
18:31:35 <rbergeron> Which is a bummer.
18:31:36 <stickster> So Pascal is requesting $240 to attend, hold a session on FWN, and also to hack and instruct on Insight and Drupal.
18:31:39 <rbergeron> +1
18:31:49 <stickster> I think this is a no brainer, +1.
18:32:04 <rbergeron> Who is updating these tickets?
18:32:08 <rbergeron> after we get done?
18:32:15 <stickster> rbergeron: I'll do it when we're through.
18:32:31 * stickster waits to see if anyone else agrees/disagrees on this
18:32:38 <stickster> #chair rbergeron
18:32:38 <zodbot> Current chairs: rbergeron stickster
18:32:40 <stickster> #chair abadger1999
18:32:41 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 rbergeron stickster
18:32:47 * stickster forgot who else was here.
18:32:49 <gwerra> +1 from me
18:32:55 <rbergeron> inode0 :)
18:33:03 <stickster> #chair gwerra inode0 rrix
18:33:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 gwerra inode0 rbergeron rrix stickster
18:33:18 <stickster> #agreed $240 for pcalarco
18:33:25 <biertie> +1 for me too ;)
18:33:35 <stickster> #action stickster update https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/9
18:33:54 <gwerra> stickster: maybe a simple change in the spreadsheet with Y for now will work :)
18:33:57 <stickster> #topic https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/13 (Steven M. Parrish)
18:34:17 <rbergeron> ooh! someone's updating it live
18:34:19 <stickster> Note my killer spreadsheet skillz with that update
18:34:25 <rbergeron> +1 to smparrish
18:34:30 <stickster> If you put in "Y" the "granted" total goes up too :-)
18:34:34 <rbergeron> $240 :)
18:34:46 <gwerra> stickster: :)
18:34:46 <stickster> rbergeron: I'm looking at each ticket to see what the requestor said they're going to do with the money
18:34:48 <rbergeron> stickster: NICE
18:35:01 <rbergeron> stickster: okay - I've already looked through all, so I'm probably jumping the gun a bit :)
18:35:10 <stickster> Oh, good on ya rbergeron!
18:35:19 * rbergeron has been reading all the tickets that pop through, but realizes those reading logs may not have. (BUT YOU SHOULD!)
18:35:39 <stickster> #info SMParrish requests $240 to do 1 or 2 presentations and help with the on-ground execution of FUDCon.
18:36:32 * rbergeron reiterates her +1 :)
18:36:42 <stickster> SMParrish has already put a proposal for one of those talks on the wiki. I would say that's a +1 from me too, esp. given the cost.
18:36:50 <gwerra> +1 from me
18:36:56 * inode0 wants in the record that his lack of +1 means nothing more than likely his attention strayed
18:37:04 <stickster> inode0: :-) Of course!
18:37:18 <stickster> #agreed $240 for SMParrish
18:37:30 <stickster> #action stickster to update  https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/13
18:37:58 <stickster> #topic https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/20 (Larry Cafiero)
18:38:15 <stickster> #info Larry is requesting $480 to cover one non-shared room
18:38:30 <stickster> Note that Larry's cost is higher because he can't easily share -- he's bringing his daughter with him.
18:38:48 <stickster> Larry also notes a partial subsidy would be OK
18:39:13 <stickster> Larry has *never* been to a FUDCon, but he has been a very active Fedora Ambassador for some time now.
18:39:21 <biertie> well, I can share my room with his daughter ;-)
18:39:37 * stickster gives biertie the stink eye
18:39:39 * rbergeron notes that Mirano spoke at SCALE last year
18:39:45 <biertie> anyway: +1 for me
18:40:00 <stickster> rbergeron: Yes! I would *love* to see her give a talk at FUDCon :-) Maybe even a lightning talk if she wanted.
18:40:04 <gwerra> stickster: make it fair and pay for his part of the room?
18:40:17 <rbergeron> Can we do a partial for now, and revisit? Or alternately get Mirano to file her own ticket? :)
18:40:34 <stickster> gwerra: The only thing I would say is, Larry has never been to a FUDCon, and it's important to me that we make it easy for some different folks to get to the event.
18:40:42 <rbergeron> And say what she's interested in doing? I know that she can certainly provide a lot from the education perspective. :)
18:40:47 <stickster> I don't want to just compare Larry to, say, Steven apples-to-apples
18:41:02 <rbergeron> I think that might make it easier on everyone's minds.
18:41:06 <stickster> Larry is offering to do a session or panel for Ambassadors, including mentoring.
18:41:29 <gwerra> stickster: then we cant say no to anyone with a companion asking for a non shared room
18:42:11 <stickster> gwerra: Of course we can :-) We have discretion after all :-)
18:42:32 <gwerra> stickster: well some people wouldn't be happy with it
18:42:37 <abadger1999> +1 to rbergeron's suggestion I think.
18:42:44 <gwerra> but a +1 from me either ways
18:42:51 <stickster> Here's what I would suggest -- let's ask Larry to get with herlo and inode0 and get their input to list a couple details that would help us understand how both of them might like to get involved
18:42:52 * rbergeron is happy to +1 this but would appreciate if Mirano put in a ticket. I know that she has concrete stuff to do / add.
18:42:56 <abadger1999> Or alternately, decide that we're explicitly funding both of them now?
18:43:38 <stickster> abadger1999: Since their travel is by car, it won't matter if it's a week or so later that we tell Larry and Mirano yes
18:43:45 <abadger1999> <nod>
18:43:53 * rbergeron nods
18:44:12 <stickster> abadger1999: rbergeron: gwerra: Did what I wrote above agree with what you were thinking too?
18:44:22 <gwerra> stickster: yup
18:44:23 * rbergeron nods.
18:44:28 <rbergeron> Yes.
18:44:41 <abadger1999> As long as we hold aside funding for them if we're thinking that's what we want to do...
18:44:46 <rbergeron> I think that's just fair to everyone involved. I know he's bringing her for educational experience, and she has stuff to offer back. :)
18:44:49 <stickster> abadger1999: +1.
18:45:21 <biertie> rbergeron: +1
18:45:29 <stickster> #agreed Want a little more detail on whether/how Mirano might get involved, so we could fund both of them the same way we would any other two contributor attendees. We'll hold funding for them on that basis
18:45:39 <stickster> #action stickster to update https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/20
18:45:59 <stickster> #topic https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/22 (Robyn Bergeron)
18:46:03 <rbergeron> WHO?
18:46:04 <stickster> All I can say is NO WAY
18:46:14 <rrix> She's weird.
18:46:17 <stickster> She's way too feisty for FUDCon.
18:46:26 * rbergeron would like to note that she's trying to get sdake to ask his boss to maybe pick up a hotel room for us but he's thinking there is no way that is going to happen
18:46:35 <gwerra> she is scarry, /me hides
18:46:49 <rbergeron> if not, I will likely leave sdake with the kids at grandma's  and i'll take a half a room, plz :)
18:47:18 <stickster> rbergeron: I couldn't tell how many days you were looking for.
18:47:30 <rbergeron> stickster: I didn't know how many I would need.
18:47:40 <rbergeron> it depends on when other organizer-types are getting in early
18:47:48 <rbergeron> I don't know what the typical lead time is here :)
18:48:16 <rrix> I'll be there nice and early :P
18:48:21 <stickster> rbergeron: We've only done this once before with logistics help from someone at the site, and he was actually *at* the site
18:48:44 <stickster> rbergeron: I think it could be useful for you to be there one day ahead, but it's probably not vital, especially since it's not a far driving distance.
18:48:51 <rbergeron> Sooo - I'm not like, near enough to be on the site - and I know rrix is pretty tied up with school.
18:49:03 <rbergeron> I can hang out at the in-laws before eeryone gets in.
18:49:25 <stickster> If you came in by around lunchtime on Friday, would that be early enough? Or would you rather be around the day before?
18:49:37 * stickster wonders if jsmith-away is still away, to remind us when he's coming in.
18:49:39 <rbergeron> that works.
18:49:48 <stickster> rbergeron: Friday you mean?
18:49:48 <rbergeron> Friday lunchtime.
18:49:51 <rbergeron> Yessir.
18:50:54 <stickster> rbergeron: Let's do this then. I'm going to set your subsidy up as 4 nights with a roommate, with the understanding that if sdake can't get funding for 1/2, we'll talk to spevack about it.  I think it would be ludicrous not to fund someone who's helping put the whole event together.
18:51:38 <abadger1999> jsmith isn't coming in early?
18:51:54 <stickster> abadger1999: I'm not sure -- he may be, and if he is, then we'll add another room-night to Robyn's subsidy.
18:51:55 * rbergeron nods
18:52:05 <stickster> rbergeron: Does that work for you?
18:52:08 <rbergeron> sure.
18:52:14 <stickster> IN fact
18:52:31 <stickster> Let's just say, approved for an extra $120 (one night by yourself) to make sure you're covered.
18:52:36 <stickster> Does that work for everyone?
18:52:51 <rbergeron> probably not needed - I'll (my kids) will be 45 minutes across town at the in-laws on the couch - which is a fine drive normally, but not when operating on no sleep or when operating a fudpub :)
18:53:03 <stickster> Oh, I see
18:53:14 <stickster> OK, let's move on then, and revisit if needed.
18:53:16 <rbergeron> 45 in no traffic, i might add. :)
18:53:26 <rbergeron> anyway.
18:53:37 <rbergeron> Okay, move on.
18:53:38 <stickster> #agreed We'll cover rbergeron's costs.
18:53:45 <rbergeron> praiiiise the lord
18:54:01 <stickster> heh
18:54:06 <stickster> #topic https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/25 (Clint Savage)
18:54:25 <stickster> herlo is requesting half a room for 4 nights, and will self-fund the other half since his spouse is accompanying him.
18:55:10 <gwerra> +1 from me for herlo
18:55:27 <rbergeron> +1
18:55:37 <inode0> +1 another no brainer I think
18:55:46 <biertie> jep, agree
18:55:48 <rbergeron> Herlo has indicated he'd be happy to come down and help prior as well
18:56:17 * stickster notes herlo says he'll help on-site.  He's non-specific about what he'll do with Ambassadors, but the cost is low, and I'm highly confident that with his experience he'll be offering a session and/or working with other Ambassadors there.
18:56:22 * stickster +1
18:56:32 <stickster> #agreed $240 granted for herlo
18:56:41 <stickster> #action stickster to update https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/25
18:56:55 <stickster> That's everyone on the NA side.
18:56:59 <rbergeron> Susmit
18:57:01 <gwerra> stickster: susmit is in NA
18:57:02 * stickster knows we are at :56.
18:57:06 <stickster> Oh!
18:57:10 <stickster> Right, I forgot he's in the USA now!
18:57:11 <rbergeron> Denver now ;)
18:57:18 <rrix> :)
18:57:21 <inode0> susmit is a definite no brainer +1 :)
18:57:28 <gwerra> +1 from me too
18:57:30 <stickster> #topic https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/30 (Susmit Shannagrahi)
18:57:37 * stickster #topic's first
18:57:48 * inode0 needs to stop saying no brainer
18:57:49 <stickster> #info Susmit requests $490 for a flight from DEN and room.
18:57:56 <stickster> inode0: It's a no brainer to say no brainer.
18:58:11 <rbergeron> +1 to susmit.
18:58:23 <inode0> after careful reflection, +1 to sponsoring susmit
18:58:29 <stickster> Like herlo, susmit is a little vague about what he plans to do
18:59:04 <stickster> I'd like to say +1, but make it contingent on his offering a session and/or hackfest
18:59:10 <stickster> For example, on the free media application
18:59:16 <inode0> can we sort of consider that he will be experiencing FUDCon NA and helping India in the future with that experience which I'm sure he will
18:59:35 <stickster> inode0: Sure -- is he going to be back in India next year? I'm not clear on how long he's in the USA
18:59:55 * abadger1999 is horrified that flights from DEN are so expensive but.... they are :-(
18:59:58 <gwerra> stickster: from what I know he wont be in India when we are wroking on the FUDCon here
19:00:14 <inode0> there is this thing called the internet
19:00:17 <stickster> abadger1999: I don't see a lot of flights below $250 these days at all
19:00:20 <rbergeron> denver is just expensive to fly in and out of.
19:00:24 <stickster> inode0: :-) good point
19:01:48 <stickster> I think funding Susmit would give us a less expensive way to get one of the two contributors we want from India/APAC there
19:02:09 <stickster> So gwerra, you don't need to worry that by funding Susmit, it means you can't come -- that's not the case.
19:02:29 <biertie> isn't that a bit 'unfair' stickster ?
19:02:38 <stickster> biertie: I don't understand?
19:02:42 <gwerra> stickster: if I was worried I wouldn't +1 :)
19:02:45 <biertie> I mean, if I go live in the US for some years, I will feel like an american
19:02:51 <biertie> not as an european?
19:03:13 <biertie> or hmm, my explanation is weird
19:03:18 <stickster> biertie: I don't even know how long Susmit is going to be here. Does anyone?
19:03:28 <inode0> the point is to transfer knowledge isn't it?
19:03:37 <inode0> help future FUDCons?
19:04:05 <abadger1999> yeah -- so the question would be -- when will knowledge imparted to susmit make it back into the fudcon-India planning process.
19:04:30 <abadger1999> Even if it's a couple years from now, it would be beneficial (compared to teh cost of slying someone from India).
19:04:40 <abadger1999> *flying
19:04:44 <inode0> we'll chat with susmit about it I guess - but I think we should fund his trip regardless based on my experience with him
19:04:56 <stickster> inode0: abadger1999: Correct.  It's not that we're automatically putting FUDCons in specific places, starting with funding people from those places.  We're trying to get people to Tempe on a reasonable basis, so they can help plan a FUDCon somewhere, whether they live precisely there or not.
19:05:01 <abadger1999> <nod>
19:05:49 <stickster> inode0: I agree -- and let's not forget Susmit is active in Spins, FreeMedia, and Ambassadors. He's clearly involved deeply in Fedora and I doubt we will have to work hard to get him to help transfer knowledge.
19:05:51 <biertie> yeah, true
19:06:00 <abadger1999> +1
19:06:36 <rbergeron> +1
19:06:48 <stickster> So can we agree on a yes, contingent on Susmit committing to help plan the next FUDCon in APAC?
19:07:19 <rbergeron> stickster:
19:07:29 <rbergeron> Denver to phx on southwest is like ... 82 bucks and 59 bucks right now.
19:07:33 <rbergeron> probably for a very short time.
19:07:41 <stickster> Ah, let's get that done then :-)
19:07:45 <stickster> We
19:07:47 <stickster> oops
19:08:00 <stickster> We'll go ahead and say yes, and hope to reduce the cost with a quick airfare purchase.
19:08:14 * rbergeron notes that southwest is not on orbitz and is worth checking for flights into phoenix!
19:08:44 <stickster> Is everyone +1 to my point above? " So can we agree on a yes, contingent on Susmit committing to help plan the next FUDCon in APAC?"
19:08:51 <rbergeron> +1
19:08:55 <gwerra> +1 from me
19:08:58 <inode0> I am +1 without the contingency
19:09:12 <abadger1999> +1 w/out contingency
19:09:26 <biertie> +1
19:09:49 <stickster> How about, "Yes.  We'd be really happy if you helped with next FUDCon APAC planning." (as opposed to requiring it)
19:10:02 <biertie> +2
19:10:02 * inode0 likes that much better
19:10:11 * stickster used contingency too strongly
19:10:13 * abadger1999 as well.
19:10:43 * abadger1999 finally admints BofA failure and devotes full attention to meeting
19:10:45 <stickster> #agreed $490 for susmit, and we hope he will help with next FUDCon APAC planning as a result.
19:10:52 <stickster> #action stickster to update https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/30
19:11:02 <stickster> #topic Time check
19:11:23 <stickster> Folks, we're at :11.  I would like to continue with non-NA people, because we want to get that show on the road.  Is there anyone who cannot continue?
19:11:54 * gwerra can continue
19:11:54 * stickster holds for 20 sec
19:12:00 * abadger1999 can continue
19:12:08 * biertie can continue
19:12:36 <stickster> OK
19:12:40 <stickster> #agreed Continue onward!
19:12:48 <stickster> #topic https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/8 (Hiemanshu Sharma)
19:13:19 * rbergeron updated susmit's request, btw, with info on a total plane cost of $162.40 on southwest.
19:13:33 <stickster> rbergeron: Thanks
19:13:50 <stickster> #info gwerra needs ~$1400 for a flight, plus hotel.
19:14:10 <gwerra> stickster: s/1400/1300
19:14:11 <stickster> Those hotel costs will be a bit more than the standard $240 because given the jet lag he'll need a day to recover before we start.
19:14:58 <gwerra> stickster: not really, I am used to changing sleeping times, so that wont be a problem
19:15:10 <inode0> ?
19:15:10 * rbergeron notes that there will probably be a few people coming in that are jetlagged :)
19:15:26 <inode0> is this from spevack's budget? did I understand that correctly?
19:15:28 <jsmith> What if I'm just lagged, without the jet?
19:15:36 <rbergeron> jsmith: then you'd be me!
19:15:42 * biertie notes that the jetlag from europe -> us is not that bad, going back from the us is worse
19:15:42 <inode0> and is anyone else from India in the pool?
19:15:49 <biertie> and that is probably the same for India
19:15:52 <stickster> inode0: What I'm going to suggest is that hiemanshu's airfare be the one we move to spevack discretionary funding, and we'll cover his hotel per normal.
19:16:05 <jsmith> biertie: I disagree... flying West is always harder on me than flying East
19:16:24 * inode0 thinks we should focus on gwerra
19:16:28 <biertie> maybe it's different for everybody then, dnno :)
19:16:48 <rbergeron> Do we need to know if anyone else from India is in the pool or APAC in general?
19:16:55 <rbergeron> Or is this first come, first served?
19:16:57 <inode0> I want to know
19:17:00 <stickster> Hiemanshu is the only person in the queue from India living in Inida.
19:17:14 <inode0> Anyone else from APAC?
19:17:17 <rbergeron> Well, i really mean apac.
19:17:24 <stickster> inode0: Not at this point AFAICT
19:17:34 <inode0> +1
19:17:40 <abadger1999> apac -- Was probinson in APAC or UK?
19:17:43 <stickster> UIK
19:17:44 <jsmith> UK
19:17:45 <stickster> *UK
19:17:46 <abadger1999> k
19:17:52 * stickster can't spiel
19:18:59 <stickster> #idea Move Hiemanshu's airfare to be paid for from spevack discretionary funding, as our one coverage from APAC
19:19:00 <abadger1999> Okay -- so no other APAC :-)
19:19:05 * rbergeron is kosher with this, assuming spevack's pool is plump.
19:19:12 * abadger1999 as well.
19:19:15 <stickster> rbergeron: spevack has assured me we're in good shape.
19:19:33 <stickster> Other than my doubling of prepositions.
19:20:05 * stickster waits for any other +/-1
19:20:14 <inode0> abadger1999: I'm sort of counting susmit as another from APAC at this point
19:20:46 <abadger1999> <nod>
19:21:18 <stickster> #agreed Move Hiemanshu's airfare to be paid for from spevack discretionary funding, as our one coverage from APAC. We will fund $240 in hotel
19:21:32 <stickster> #action stickster update https://fedorahosted.org/fudcon-planning/ticket/8
19:22:08 <jsmith> inode0: Why is that?  Isn't he coming from Denver?
19:22:44 <inode0> He is going to school here and just started - he has contributed substantially from India over the past years
19:22:48 <biertie> jsmith we agreed on that some time ago :)
19:23:40 * stickster just saw an error -- we missed nushio who is traveling from TX
19:23:45 <stickster> Can we handle him real quick?
19:23:51 <inode0> yes please
19:24:17 <inode0> wait, is he in the LATAM pool though?
19:24:32 <stickster> inode0: No
19:24:36 <inode0> why not?
19:24:38 <stickster> He's an Amurrcan
19:24:43 <inode0> he lives in LATAM
19:25:04 <stickster> Oh, I didn't read his ticket right -- he does indeed
19:25:17 <rrix> He's travelling from .mx south of texas, iirc
19:25:33 <stickster> He's only asking for funding from Texas to PHX.
19:25:37 <stickster> That's why I got confused.
19:25:41 <rrix> ah
19:25:42 <abadger1999> hehe :-)
19:25:53 <inode0> I think he is a no brainer but should be considered with other LATAM requests?!
19:25:55 * rrix suspends laptop and debates a nap.
19:26:00 <rrix> This class is a joke
19:26:02 <stickster> inode0: Yes, agreed.
19:26:04 <rrix> bye
19:26:09 * rbergeron notes that mexico is technicall part of north america....
19:26:13 <rbergeron> just like canada....
19:26:18 <inode0> not in Fedora :)
19:26:37 <biertie> inode0: +1
19:26:40 * abadger1999 wonders how canadians would feel about the "technically" part :-)
19:26:49 <stickster> OK, let's look at the LATAM area together then
19:27:20 <rbergeron> Is he wantting to come to plan, or is he wanting to come to participate?
19:27:24 <stickster> If we try to do this sequentially things will get even more confusing than they'll probably be doing the region together.
19:27:27 <stickster> rbergeron: ^^
19:27:36 <abadger1999> latam is interesting -- It can be split many different ways (probably like APAC...)
19:27:37 * stickster prepares to #topic unless someone disagrees
19:27:47 <abadger1999> Go for it.
19:27:49 <stickster> #topic LATAM subsidies
19:28:05 <stickster> We have essentially 5 requests now from LATAM
19:28:44 <stickster> Guillermo Gomez (gomix), Igor Soares (igor), Neville Cross (y1nv), José Edgardo López Vásquez (magjogui), and Juan Rodriguez (nushio)
19:29:17 * stickster notes that Maria Leandro (tatica) will be attending, but this is by separate arrangement with spevack and we don't need to worry about that funding.
19:29:34 <inode0> no aeperezt?
19:29:50 <stickster> inode0: Not at this time, I'm looking at the queue.
19:29:51 * stickster notes first off that abadger1999 said something important which is the many ways LATAM can be "split"
19:30:07 <abadger1999> I believe I've met everyone except for magjogui.
19:30:12 <abadger1999> Yeah --
19:30:23 <abadger1999> Central and South America are very different from each other.
19:30:40 <abadger1999> Brasil is Portuguese speaking while everyone else is Spanish speaking.
19:30:49 <stickster> I think we want to concentrate on a few things here: 1. Bringing in a couple people who are active contributors; 2. Bringing in people who represent different areas; 3. Bringing in people who have shown themselves to be good collaborators
19:31:02 <abadger1999> Proximity to the US also has some influence on the way the countries associate with each other.
19:31:12 <abadger1999> <nod>
19:31:14 <stickster> and 4. Bringing in people who've never experienced a FUDCon
19:31:43 <stickster> Maria is coming from Venezuela.  While we don't have to worry about the funding, I'm not sure we want to concentrate on bringing an additional person from Venezuela.
19:32:08 * inode0 doesn't know where everyone on the list is from
19:32:16 <stickster> Also, jsmith, wasn't it the case that there was almost no one from Argentina at FUDCon Santiago?
19:32:36 <abadger1999> about #4 -- seceral of the people have experienced SA fudcon but it's very different from NA fudcon... if they're continuing to be SA FUDCon organizers/attendees... we should get them up here to understand the differences and try to bring the best ideas home.
19:32:42 <jsmith> stickster: There was nobody subsidized for FUDCon Santiago
19:33:09 <stickster> abadger1999: Right
19:33:12 <jsmith> stickster: One came on his dime
19:33:35 <abadger1999> stickster: I believe the only other person from Venezuela is gomix... who is active in the Fedora community and we get his stay partially supported by his sister (he doesn't have to stay in a hotel)
19:34:44 <abadger1999> jsmith: Talking about Neal Becker?
19:34:51 <stickster> What I was thinking is that we should try to bring in someone from another CA/SA country, and if there's someone in the list from BR we include that person
19:34:54 <jsmith> abadger1999: Domingo Becker
19:34:58 <stickster> jsmith: Thanks
19:35:00 * rbergeron notes that gomix has no transportation options except public transport, possibly, unless he can borrow a car, and it is a 40 mile drive from surprise to tempe.
19:35:05 <abadger1999> jsmith: Ah right.  Domingo
19:35:16 * abadger1999 transposed names there :-(
19:35:22 <jsmith> stickster: Since three folks from Brazil got subsidized for FUDCon LATAM, I'd lean towards some other LATAM country
19:35:33 <stickster> jsmith: That's fair
19:35:43 <jsmith> stickster: Just trying to be fair :-/
19:35:48 <rbergeron> Where is neville from?
19:35:54 <stickster> Nicaragua
19:36:17 <stickster> jsmith: Was Neville at the LATAM FUDCon?
19:36:18 <abadger1999> rbergeron: I believe he's been to tempe before to visit his sister -- not sure if he's planned out the car thing with his sister already.
19:36:35 <stickster> I remember him mentioning he wanted to help with the next FUDCon planning in that region
19:37:01 <jsmith> stickster: No, he was not
19:37:07 <inode0> Neville and nushio I am willing to consider outside the LATAM/NA designations too
19:37:15 <abadger1999> jsmith: Note though -- Brasil is huge and speaks Portuguese instead of Spanish speaking....
19:37:17 * stickster notes that Neville can do a partial subsidy, by traveling through Miami.
19:37:26 <stickster> So inode0, I think that's the right way to go, yes
19:37:32 <jsmith> abadger1999: I certainly realize both of those tings
19:37:35 <jsmith> s/tings/things/
19:37:45 <jsmith> abadger1999: After all, I was just there :-)
19:37:59 <abadger1999> <nod>
19:38:01 <stickster> #idea Let's remove nushio and y1nv from this conversation, with the idea being their travel is cheap enough we can afford to bring them in regardless of other attendees
19:38:42 <biertie> +1
19:38:45 <gwerra> stickster: +1
19:38:59 <stickster> abadger1999: jsmith: rbergeron: ^^^ ?
19:39:09 <abadger1999> 0
19:39:28 <jsmith> abadger1999: I'm just trying to balance things out as best I can -- there was a *lot* of complaint that Brazil was over-represented at FUDCon LATAM, and so I'm just trying to be fair -- I have nothing against Brazil, as you know.
19:39:39 * rbergeron is kosher with that totally :)
19:39:43 <jsmith> stickster: I'm OK with that I guess
19:40:34 <stickster> #agreed We'll consider nushio and y1nv in line with domestic travelers due to low cost, and look for two add'l people from LATAM
19:40:43 * inode0 is prepared to +1 both y1nv and nushio but just didn't want that to by default mean no to the others
19:40:44 <abadger1999> jsmith: I think there's a lot of danger in trying to be fair without thinking about objectives.... We want to raise a body of people who understand fudcon in SA... we should be looking at people who are going to be helping to organize fudcon (probably remotely since we'll likely only get one person in country at the most).
19:40:54 <stickster> inode0: Understood and agreed
19:41:16 * abadger1999 agrees with inode0 I think.
19:41:46 <stickster> That leaves us with gomix, igor, and magjogui in the queue right now.
19:41:57 <inode0> and a bid from panama
19:42:58 <stickster> inode0: That's right. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:LATAM_2011_Bid_Panama
19:43:29 * rbergeron would think it would be fair to note that having people from other regions doesn't necessarily mean that their city is going to get the bid by default
19:43:42 <stickster> Although tatica will be in Tempe and is undoubtedly involved somehow with this, I don't see anyone else on the Panama local team listed in our ticket queue
19:44:03 <inode0> aeperezt was I thought
19:44:32 * inode0 thinks we should ping him at least
19:44:33 <stickster> inode0: If you see him in the ticket queue, please point him out :-)
19:44:38 <stickster> Perhaps what we ought to do is solicit one person from that group to attend. Preferably that person will speak enough English to be able to learn effectively, and be a good collaborator with other people in the region
19:44:48 <stickster> If that person is aeperezt, super!
19:45:08 <inode0> aeperezt is a fine choice IMO
19:45:08 <stickster> Then we could select one additional person from LATAM to attend.
19:45:13 <stickster> Does that make sense?
19:46:26 <abadger1999> I'd rather have more latam people and less NA people...
19:46:29 <biertie> yes.
19:46:57 <stickster> abadger1999: That would be great if it didn't cost us about 6x as much per person :-)
19:47:26 <abadger1999> If we're trying to push out knowledge of what fudcon is like to other parts of the world, 1) Make sure that there's enough regulars in Tempe to give a true FUDCon flavour but 2) Then fill the rest of the slots with people who can take that knowledge home.
19:48:05 <biertie> 3) the regulars are more important imho, they make a fudcon..
19:48:27 <stickster> abadger1999: I think we're doing a pretty good job of that so far -- looks like we will have at least 5 people from LATAM, 1+ from APAC, and we still need to get to EMEA.
19:49:28 <stickster> I think it's the combination that makes things work well, and it looks like we'll have a really good mix of people -- including a lot of people who aren't normally at the East Coast FUDCons.
19:49:38 * inode0 notes we always have people from EMEA and some are already signed up this year ...
19:49:56 <stickster> So, in the interest of time, let's get some #actions here please.
19:50:11 <stickster> #idea Invite aeperezt to FUDCon Tempe
19:50:58 * stickster thinks it makes sense to have someone representing a bid team at FUDCon Tempe, even if we haven't awarded to them.
19:51:17 <stickster> {,yet}
19:51:41 <stickster> inode0: abadger1999: rbergeron: jsmith: ^^
19:51:49 <stickster> biertie too :-)
19:51:51 * inode0 talked to aeperezt and the timing prohibits his attendance this time
19:51:55 <stickster> Argh
19:52:02 * rbergeron nods
19:52:05 <stickster> #info aeperezt can't make it
19:52:36 <biertie> stickster: agreed
19:52:38 <stickster> #agreed Invite someone from Panama bid team, who can effectively use the opportunity to build knowledge about setting up FUDCon
19:52:41 <stickster> #undo
19:52:41 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x8bbf490>
19:52:48 <stickster> #idea Invite someone from Panama bid team, who can effectively use the opportunity to build knowledge about setting up FUDCon
19:52:53 <stickster> Let's try that again ^^  :-)
19:52:57 <stickster> +/-1?
19:53:02 <biertie> +1
19:53:06 <jsmith> +1
19:53:11 <rbergeron> +1
19:53:16 <abadger1999> inode0: Who else do you know on the Panama bid team?
19:53:19 <stickster> inode0: Can you take the lead on this one?
19:53:29 * stickster sees abadger1999 was thinking the same thing more or less :-D
19:53:31 * inode0 can investigate
19:53:53 <jsmith> If we do that, are we giving an implicit nod to Panama?
19:53:55 <abadger1999> Or alternately, does aeperezt think that one of the others is the best one for coming up since they're the most involved :-)
19:54:00 <stickster> jsmith: No
19:54:07 <jsmith> OK, just so we're clear :-)
19:54:30 <stickster> jsmith: We said earlier that the basis for bringing someone in isn't to implicitly award them a FUDCon, it's to ensure we have people in different regions who can help with planning
19:54:36 <stickster> Just as I'm helping rbergeron from 2500 miles away :-)
19:54:46 <rbergeron> And in the event they don't, that knowledge should still be used and shared to do whtever planning is done for a FUDCon in that region.
19:54:47 <jsmith> OK, just wanted to make that extra-clear
19:54:59 <jsmith> Hence the reason I asked ;-)
19:55:00 <stickster> jsmith: Thanks for the opportunity to clarify :-)
19:55:16 <stickster> A point worth making several times, absolutely.
19:55:54 <abadger1999> With that in mind... it would be great if the person invited is shown to work thorughout the region.
19:56:09 <stickster> abadger1999: I agree.
19:56:19 <jsmith> abadger1999: I absolutely agree
19:56:23 <abadger1999> where region in this case is one and a half continents :-/
19:56:29 <stickster> #action inode0 to talk to aeperezt and other Panama bid team members to relay this information, and invite someone who's a good collaborator to FUDCon Tempe
19:57:08 <stickster> inode0: If we could get some sort of idea about that by week's end, we can set up a meeting for early next week to figure out the rest of the LATAM tickets.
19:57:24 * stickster notes we're now at 2 hours for this meeting, and everyone's probably ready to move on to other things.
19:57:26 * inode0 has a suggestion already
19:57:39 <stickster> inode0: Before we open any new topics, let's figure out our next meeting time.
19:58:02 <stickster> inode0: Oh wait, you meant a suggestion about what to do wrt. the Panama team?
19:58:26 <inode0> I mean I have been talking with aeperezt and now have another Panama contact - let me chat with them and go from there
19:58:40 <stickster> inode0: OK, sounds good. We'll look for list noise from you.
19:58:53 <stickster> #topic Meeting #2 TBA
19:59:18 <stickster> We obviously need another meeting to deal with this big queue. Can we try to set something up for Friday?
19:59:29 * stickster can send around another matrix for people's availability
19:59:35 <inode0> just not during the board meeting :)
19:59:38 <stickster> inode0: Ah yes
19:59:54 <stickster> Right you are. I just don't want to sit for another week since time and travel fares wait for no man :-)
20:00:21 <rbergeron> Friday is fine, but send the whenisgood :)
20:00:24 <stickster> #idea stickster will send around a meeting matrix to the list for Friday
20:00:40 <stickster> rbergeron: Yup, I never try to set meeting times *in* a meeting any more :-D
20:01:06 <stickster> #action stickster send a whenisgood to list for subsidy meeting #2 -- avoid Board meeting.
20:01:15 <stickster> OK, that's going to do it for today folks.
20:01:32 <biertie> ach ok :)
20:01:39 <jsmith> Thanks stickster
20:01:44 <biertie> also stickster can you give me access to the spreadsheet? :)
20:01:53 <stickster> biertie: Absolutely!
20:01:54 <stickster> inode0: abadger1999: rbergeron: biertie: gwerra: rrix: jsmith: Thanks to all of you for being here!
20:02:00 <stickster> #endmeeting