16:00:51 <stoney> #startmeeting POSSE Meeting 2
16:00:51 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue May 21 16:00:51 2019 UTC.
16:00:51 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
16:00:51 <zodbot> The chair is stoney. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:51 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:51 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'posse_meeting_2'
16:01:03 <stoney> #chair Heidiellis
16:01:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: Heidiellis stoney
16:01:12 <Heidiellis> Hi Folks
16:01:17 <stoney> Hi everyone, let's start our second meeting for POSSE!
16:01:23 <Heidiellis> Welcome to the second POSSE IRC meeting!
16:01:30 <stevenaeola> Hi
16:01:33 <susan> Hi
16:01:34 <stoney> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/IRC_Meeting_2 contains the agenda for this meeting
16:01:54 <stoney> #topic roll call
16:02:18 <stoney> If you're participating in today's meeting, please #info your information up
16:02:29 <Heidiellis> #info Heidi Ellis, Western New England University, POSSE facilitator
16:02:35 <stoney> #info Stoney Jackson, Western New England University
16:02:45 <susan> #info Susan Hammond, Faulkner University, Montgomery, AL
16:03:00 <stevenaeola> #info Steven Bradley, Durham University (UK), POSSE 2019-06 participant
16:03:11 <stoney> Hi susan !
16:03:13 <stoney> Hi stevenaeola !
16:03:25 <susan> Hi stoney
16:03:41 <Heidiellis> Hi all!
16:03:42 <Heidiellis> :-)
16:03:49 * stevenaeola waves to everybody
16:04:27 <stoney> OK... so four of us then :)
16:04:33 <Heidiellis> Looks like it
16:04:34 <stevenaeola> cosy
16:04:41 <stoney> #topic Updates and Questions on POSSE stage 1 activities
16:04:51 <stoney> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage_1_Activities has the overview of Stage 1
16:05:07 <Heidiellis> Are there questions on stage 1 activities?
16:05:23 <Heidiellis> How are folks coming along?
16:05:34 <susan> No, overall they've been very educational.  I'm halfway through Part B.
16:05:53 <Heidiellis> Good susan !
16:06:10 <Heidiellis> Please do remember to log your progress at:
16:06:13 <stevenaeola> I'm not as far on as I should be, but it's good so far. Done most of Part A, but not part B. I am not good.
16:06:16 <Heidiellis> #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HvgclSLZE4f1fDrw9S7ywP6MrMsAaWjWXATQ3W7H3Wg
16:06:29 <Heidiellis> stevenaeola, Well, it is a busy time of the year.
16:06:31 <stevenaeola> But I have logged the progress on the sheet hopefully
16:06:38 <Heidiellis> As long as you catch up you should be fine.
16:06:46 <susan> My wiki page is getting really long :)
16:07:05 <stoney> :)
16:07:11 <stoney> that happens :)
16:07:17 <Heidiellis> Yup.
16:07:58 <stoney> ok... sounds like things are moving along... and there are no questions
16:08:00 <Heidiellis> Yup.
16:08:03 <stoney> should we go on?
16:08:07 <Heidiellis> Let's talk about courses.
16:08:13 <stoney> #topic Courses in which you plan to use HFOSS
16:08:14 <stevenaeola> There are a few places where I could add some comments
16:08:42 <Heidiellis> stevenaeola, sure, go ahead.
16:08:43 <stoney> stevenaeola please do; feedback is a good thing
16:08:54 <Heidiellis> What courses are people thinking about using HFOSS in?
16:08:56 <stevenaeola> E.g. when it talks about versions it would be useful to link to semantic versioning
16:09:27 <Heidiellis> And note that we're hoping that folks will be able to incorporate 1-2 activities, not an entire course.
16:09:28 <susan> I am teaching a Project Management course and an Ethics course this fall.  There are lots of ways that I can incorporate the FOSS material in both courses.
16:09:36 <Heidiellis> susan, Cool!
16:09:50 <stoney> stevenaeola good idea... do you remember which activity that was? maybe just add it to your comment in the spreadsheet?
16:10:02 <stoney> stevenaeola that way we know where it gos
16:10:05 <stoney> goes *
16:10:18 <stevenaeola> OK I will add it to the spreadsheet, wasn't sure if that was the correct place
16:10:32 <stevenaeola> There are a couple of courses I was thinking about
16:10:45 <Heidiellis> ?
16:11:12 <stoney> susan will you be discussing licensing?
16:11:18 <stevenaeola> We have a second year software engineering group project which would be the most obvious place to start
16:11:48 <stevenaeola> But I already include some stuff on git, a little bit on licensing and a little bit of group work in first year programming
16:11:52 <susan> I already talk about intellectual property in my ethics class, so I can really beef it up with some of the info from Part B.
16:12:07 <stoney> susan very nice
16:12:20 <Heidiellis> stevenaeola, Sure, but I should warn you that making an actual contribution would likely be optimistic.
16:12:30 <Heidiellis> I've only accomplished that a couple of times and I've been doing this for a while.
16:12:41 <stevenaeola> Fair comment
16:12:56 <stevenaeola> But maybe we can include it as part of the warm-up
16:13:17 <stevenaeola> And there are often things like docs and tests that can be contributed
16:13:28 <stevenaeola> Or translation of existing docs
16:13:32 <stoney> absolutely
16:13:38 <susan> Heidiellis I'm thinking that lurking may be enough for my PM class this fall, especially since I'm new at this.
16:13:38 <Heidiellis> Yes, these are good ideas.
16:13:41 <Heidiellis> And feasible.
16:13:41 <stoney> those are great ideas
16:13:49 <Heidiellis> And yes, lurking is a great idea.
16:14:02 <Heidiellis> I used to hold class during the team meetings for the GNOME Accessibility team.
16:14:18 <Heidiellis> I'd put the IRC chat up on the screen and we would talk about what was happening
16:14:24 <Heidiellis> And that way we could ask questions as well.
16:14:39 <susan> That's cool.
16:14:42 <stevenaeola> That's a really nice idea. I've done live development before, but not live discussion
16:15:24 <stevenaeola> I guess it would be best to do it for something where we are recognised as part of the team?
16:15:48 <stoney> hi michelem if you are joining us in this meeting, could you please #info your information?
16:16:04 <Heidiellis> stevenaeola, I'm not sure what you mean?
16:16:30 <Heidiellis> stevenaeola, Do you mean that it would be better to do live IRC chat if we are already part of the team?
16:16:41 <stoney> michelem like: #info Stoney Jackson, Western New England University
16:16:51 <stevenaeola> So I think you are suggesting that as part of the class we lurk on a discussion
16:17:07 <michelem> #info Michele McColgan, Siena College
16:17:15 <Heidiellis> Yes, stevenaeola That is correct.
16:17:18 <stoney> awesome, thanks and welcome!
16:17:20 <stevenaeola> But that if we want to ask questions it might be better to do that if the IRC chat recognises us
16:17:30 <Heidiellis> And at first, we aren't members of the community. We just watched ;-)
16:17:31 <michelem> Sorry I’m late
16:17:31 <stevenaeola> And by us, I guess I mean me
16:17:41 <Heidiellis> And yes, it would be good to be known before asking questions.
16:17:42 <stoney> michelem the agenda for this meeting is here: http://foss2serve.org/index.php/IRC_Meeting_2
16:17:59 <Heidiellis> But you could also do that fairly immediately before the meeting.
16:18:06 <stoney> michelem we are currently discussing what courses folks are considering incorporating HFOSS
16:18:14 <Heidiellis> Thats the cool part of openness. :-)
16:19:05 <stevenaeola> HI michelem
16:19:17 <michelem> Hi everyone
16:19:18 <Heidiellis> michelem, Which classes are you thinking of using HFOSS in?
16:20:30 <michelem> I don’t teach computer science, so I’m thinking more about my undergraduate research projects. For example, we’re creating a Raspberry Pi nature cam citizen science project and it seems like a good candidate and involves students from different disciplines.
16:20:53 * stevenaeola puts hand up excitedly
16:21:08 <stevenaeola> I also work on a wildlife camera trapping project
16:21:24 <michelem> So cool
16:21:27 <stevenaeola> https://www.mammalweb.org/
16:21:34 <Heidiellis> Ah, right.
16:21:40 <Heidiellis> This sounds like a cool project.
16:21:41 <stoney> oooo... that sounds cool
16:22:26 <stevenaeola> My project takes submissions from camera traps, rather than designing the traps
16:22:38 <Heidiellis> Got it.
16:22:39 <michelem> I will check it out. But right now I’m still figuring how to communicate here.
16:22:40 <stevenaeola> But other people around the place are also interested in that
16:22:52 <Heidiellis> michelem,  Not a problem.
16:23:16 <michelem> I also am interested in the Sugar project, but I am struggling with how we can participate.
16:23:32 <Heidiellis> Right.
16:23:39 <Heidiellis> Perhaps documentation? User manuals?
16:24:20 <michelem> I’ll check it out. I was looking through their priorities and it’s mostly coding stuff and over my head. I will check out the documentation and user manuals.
16:24:57 <stoney> great stuff all!
16:25:05 <Heidiellis> Yes, but I'm guessing that pouring some love on the documentation would be very much appreciated.
16:25:37 <stoney> any other thoughts before I move us to the next topic?
16:25:52 <Heidiellis> onwards!
16:25:52 <stevenaeola> I'm good
16:25:57 <stoney> #topic Questions about POSSE Stage 2 Activities
16:26:15 <stoney> We have a draft agenda for Stage 2.  It will be updated, but it will give you an idea of the face-to-face workshop.
16:26:24 <stoney> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage_2_Activities for the Stage 2 draft agenda
16:26:41 <stoney> Any questions about our stage 2 face-to-face workshop?
16:27:20 <Heidiellis> Has everyone made their travel arrangements?
16:27:44 <Heidiellis> Note that we'll leave the hotel to start at 2:00.
16:27:46 <susan> I've made my travel arrangements.  No questions, just excited to get in the room and learn more about all of this!
16:27:47 <stevenaeola> Day 1 is Monday right?
16:27:50 <Heidiellis> Yes!
16:27:54 <Heidiellis> Yes, stevenaeola
16:27:57 <michelem> I’m still figuring out if I’m going to drive or take the train. Any input?
16:28:06 <Heidiellis> Where are  you again michelem ?
16:28:11 <michelem> Albany, NY
16:28:17 <Heidiellis> I'd look at the time.
16:28:24 <Heidiellis> I live in CT and I take the train out of Hartford.
16:28:31 <michelem> So, I would transfer in NYC
16:28:36 <Heidiellis> Takes me 4:15 on Amtrak and I plug in and work.
16:28:41 <michelem> Exactly!
16:28:42 <stevenaeola> I haven't got my travel booked, but I know the route and time and stuff. I will arrive Sunday night because I can't get there from here in the morning.
16:28:43 <Heidiellis> How long to get to NYC?
16:29:00 <michelem> around 3 hrs
16:29:00 <Heidiellis> Its only about 1:30 to 1:45 from NYC to Phila.
16:29:04 <Heidiellis> Ah, OK
16:29:08 <Heidiellis> So I might do train.
16:29:17 <michelem> Yeah, I don’t really wanna drive!
16:29:19 <Heidiellis> It would drop you right at 30th street station.
16:29:24 <Heidiellis> Nope, not worth driving.
16:29:38 <Heidiellis> If you got in early enough, you could walk to Club Quarters.
16:29:50 <michelem> Club Quarters?
16:29:54 <Heidiellis> Or you could walk directly to the workshop which is on 36th st.
16:30:01 <Heidiellis> Club Quarters is the hotel.
16:30:06 <michelem> Ah, right
16:30:10 <susan> I land at the airport at 11:10 am.  That should give me time to get to the hotel, check in and be ready to go.
16:30:23 <Heidiellis> From 30th St station, the hotel and the workshop are in opposite directions.
16:30:28 <michelem> Is it safe to walk around at night? Or early morning if I leave early?
16:30:30 <Heidiellis> Sure susan, that should work.
16:30:40 <Heidiellis> Which day?
16:30:56 <Heidiellis> And where are you talking about? HOtel or workshop location?
16:30:59 <Heidiellis> Both are quite safe.
16:31:09 <michelem> Sunday to come in and then Thursday.
16:31:32 <Heidiellis> I have stayed multiple times at Club Quarters and its in the center of a business/residentail district
16:31:47 <michelem> Sounds good
16:31:50 <Heidiellis> I have walked to dinner at 8:00 p.m. and gone for a 6:00 AM walk as well.
16:32:04 <Heidiellis> Not sure I'd walk at 2AM, but I haven't been up at that time.
16:32:19 <michelem> I think my train is at 4 am? Maybe?
16:32:23 <stevenaeola> I might be waking up at 2am
16:32:26 <Heidiellis> michelem, Did you arrange with Greg for Sunday and Wednesday nights in the hotel?
16:32:37 <Heidiellis> 4:00 AM Sunday?
16:32:42 <stoney> those are some early hours
16:32:48 <Heidiellis> Why don't you do Monday train if you're leaving that early?
16:33:09 <michelem> Haven’t talked to Greg. My memory is fuzzy on specifics of the schedule. I’ll double check.
16:33:43 <susan> Is it casual dress for the workshop?
16:33:55 <stoney> susan yes
16:34:09 <Heidiellis> Yup, casual as in shorts and t-shirts is fine.
16:34:29 <stevenaeola> What is the daytime max temp likely to be?
16:34:30 <stoney> (a question I could answer! :))
16:34:31 <Heidiellis> michelem, Yes, please check with Greg about details as he'll need to make arrangements with the hotel.
16:34:41 <Heidiellis> Likely in the 80's.
16:34:50 <Heidiellis> So warm.
16:34:53 <stevenaeola> T shirt and shorts it is then
16:34:59 <michelem> I’ll figure it out today and get in touch with Greg.
16:34:59 <Heidiellis> Yup. :-)
16:35:16 <Heidiellis> The room itself might be a bit cool, so a sweater might be helpful.
16:35:37 <Heidiellis> I was in Phila this past weekend and got to see the room. Its in a newly opened building and its pretty cool.
16:36:01 <stoney> i wish i wasn't missing this one, I would have liked to see the new diggs
16:36:14 <stevenaeola> All sounds great
16:36:25 <stevenaeola> Apart from stoney not being there :-(
16:36:30 <Heidiellis> stoney, they're cool
16:36:35 <stoney> ok... moving on to our last topic?
16:36:37 <Heidiellis> Feels a bit like the Red Hat offices.
16:36:45 <Heidiellis> Lots of open cubicles, etc.
16:36:45 <stoney> that sounds great
16:36:59 <Heidiellis> Except that all of the office walls and doors are glass.
16:37:09 <Heidiellis> Frosted glass, but glass just the same. Feels a bit "fish bowl"
16:37:11 <stoney> very open
16:37:19 <stoney> interesting
16:37:21 <Heidiellis> Yes, very "tech startup" feeling.
16:37:22 <stevenaeola> but is it free?
16:37:39 <Heidiellis> The location?
16:37:40 <Heidiellis> Yes
16:37:45 <stevenaeola> As in FOSS
16:38:00 <Heidiellis> Ah, :-) Well, we may have to sign you all in. So not entirely "free".
16:38:21 <stevenaeola> Sorry, comedy does not work well without my hand waving and smiling
16:38:35 <stoney> :)
16:38:41 <stoney> #topic Signing up for Stage 2 project and course groups
16:38:52 <stoney> moving us forward
16:39:08 <stoney> At the stage 2 workshop we have time to work in small groups.
16:39:18 <stoney> To start to organize groups, we ask that you sign up for both a course as well as an HFOSS project that interest you.
16:39:26 <stoney> It's not a long term commitment, but just a way to organize discussion at the workshop
16:39:34 <stoney> #link http://foss2serve.org/index.php/Stage2_Groups is the page to indicate your course and project interest
16:39:55 <stoney> Thoughts?
16:39:56 <Heidiellis> Looks like michelem has already signed up. Good!
16:40:02 <stoney> wuhoo!
16:40:16 <michelem> Got ahead of myself in the last stage!
16:41:05 <stevenaeola> So we should choose exactly one course?
16:41:10 <susan> So, you just want us to put our names into the wiki for the area we are interested in?
16:41:11 <michelem> What’s the difference between courses and projects?
16:41:15 <Heidiellis> You can choose two if you'd like.
16:41:46 <Heidiellis> We typically run stage 2 either organized around projects that folks want to get involved in or courses that folks are teaching.
16:42:07 <Heidiellis> And so we try to get an idea of interest during stage 1 so that we can plan teams for stage 2.
16:42:23 <Heidiellis> This time around there will be more emphasis on courses.
16:42:39 <stevenaeola> And we choose from the projects already listed, not adding any from the longer list?
16:42:42 <Heidiellis> And you're not committing yourself to a particular course or project.
16:42:50 <Heidiellis> Yes, please stick with the listed ones.
16:43:01 <stevenaeola> Gotcha
16:43:10 <Heidiellis> When we get to stage 2, if there are a number of folks who want another project, we can make that decision then.
16:43:11 <stoney> can they choose more than one?
16:43:19 <Heidiellis> Yes, choosing more than one is fine.
16:43:41 <michelem> I picked software engineering/capstone because my nature cam project is a collaborative project. But, if the students code minimally compared to a CS student, is that a good pick?
16:43:46 <Heidiellis> We're getting an idea of interest and using this for initial team formation.
16:44:02 <Heidiellis> But changes are expected once we get to stage 2.
16:44:16 <stoney> michelem sounds like a reasonable pick to me
16:44:21 <stevenaeola> I guess you want this information quite soon then?
16:44:37 <Heidiellis> As people get a better vision for what is possible, they sometimes change their mind.
16:44:45 <Heidiellis> In the next couple of weeks please.
16:45:00 <stevenaeola> Ok will do
16:45:02 <Heidiellis> We'll look at it in detail the week before Stage 2.
16:45:18 <stoney> love this group... lots of good questions and discussion!
16:45:57 <stoney> #topic good of the order
16:46:11 <stoney> Any last questions or thoughts?
16:46:17 <michelem> Quick question on the stage B last question.
16:46:25 <Heidiellis> +1
16:46:28 <stoney> go for it
16:46:40 * Heidiellis thinks that the "+1" is open source shorthand for agreement.
16:46:43 <michelem> I spent alot of time going through Sugar as a project for my students but came up empty.
16:47:11 <michelem> So, can I look at the idea of documentation and be set for that one?
16:47:27 <Heidiellis> Sure, that's fine michelem
16:47:27 <michelem> I was feeling like I needed a slam dunk, but I’m still pretty fuzzy on how it will work with students.
16:47:52 <Heidiellis> Right, that's fine. Part of what we'll do in stage 2 is spend time figuring out exactly what you could do with students.
16:48:02 <michelem> Okay, great.
16:48:05 <Heidiellis> We've got time in teams to figure things like this out.
16:48:19 <Heidiellis> I'm excited that you're setting yourself up to do something in fall. Good for you!
16:48:28 <stevenaeola> A more generic question
16:49:03 <stevenaeola> Do you have any thoughts on working with open data rather than open source code?
16:49:17 <Heidiellis> We've had this question before.
16:49:34 <michelem> This interests me as well!
16:49:40 <Heidiellis> Open data can be useful, especially if it is under the "humanitarian" umbrella.
16:49:42 * stoney glad Heidiellis has a good memory
16:49:48 <Heidiellis> And folks have done this before.
16:50:14 <Heidiellis> Our NSF funding is to support instructors incorporating HFOSS into computing courses.
16:50:36 <susan> I have to go now.  Sorry to leave early.
16:50:36 <Heidiellis> So while we think this is a good idea and have some support for it, our funding is computing, not data science.
16:50:40 <Heidiellis> bye susan
16:50:44 <stoney> bye susan
16:50:47 <stevenaeola> bye
16:50:49 <susan> bye
16:51:09 <stevenaeola> Heidiellis: I hear you, that's no problem
16:51:14 <michelem> Does it support including computation in STEM courses?
16:51:15 <Heidiellis> Right.
16:51:35 <stevenaeola> But maybe it's something michelem and I could discuss in Philly
16:51:44 <Heidiellis> So we do have people investigating that area and we don't discourage, but we can't spend a lot of time focusing on it either.
16:52:09 <Heidiellis> And yes, michelem, we include computing in STEM courses. Again, not a main focus, but also within our purview.
16:52:28 <Heidiellis> Hence your attendance at POSSE michelem !!
16:52:32 <michelem> okay, thanks! I don’t think the CS faculty will let me teach a CS course! Ha Ha!
16:53:22 <Heidiellis> :-) Sure!
16:53:29 <stoney> OK... our time is about up
16:53:44 <stoney> any other questions or thoughts? or a motion to adjourn?
16:54:06 <stevenaeola> +1 adjourn
16:54:08 <Heidiellis> +1
16:54:15 <stoney> ok... thanks all!
16:54:15 <michelem> +1
16:54:20 <stoney> #endmeeting