17:58:12 <abadger1999> #startmeeting FAMSCo election townhall
17:58:12 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Nov 30 17:58:12 2009 UTC.  The chair is abadger1999. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:58:12 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:58:47 <zodbot> abadger1999: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
17:59:54 <abadger1999> #meetingname famsco-townhall
17:59:54 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco-townhall'
17:59:55 * nirik looks.
18:00:40 <lfoppiano> hi all
18:00:46 * spevack waves
18:00:51 <abadger1999> Welcome to the second famsco townhall everyone
18:01:03 * tatica having lunch, but is here :D
18:01:04 <abadger1999> Shall we start with brief introductions by the candidates?
18:01:39 <abadger1999> lfoppiano, say a line or two about yourself?
18:01:57 <djf_jeff> Jean-Francois Saucier (djf_jeff), Fedora Ambassador from Canada
18:02:33 <lfoppiano> I'm Luca Foppiano, from Italy. I started using fedora some years ago, I've been ambassador since March 2008 and I'm supporting right now the Italian community
18:02:40 <ke4qqq> David Nalley, from the United States
18:02:43 <lfoppiano> by the way right now I live in Holland
18:03:04 <abadger1999> Cool.  spevack?
18:03:14 <spevack> I'm Max Spevack.  Been at Red Hat almost 5 1/2 years, and almost 4 of those years heavily involved in Fedora or other Community Stuff in different parts of the world.
18:03:34 <spevack> I've been heavily involved in Ambassadors from the start of my time in Fedora.  Sometimes officially as part of famsco, sometimes as an unofficial famsco member.
18:03:50 <spevack> That's sufficient for now ;)
18:03:57 <abadger1999> Excellent.  tatica a few words about yourself.
18:04:03 <tatica> 0. Maria Gracia Leandro (tatica), Ambassador from Venezuela, Helping in Artwork, Event Organization (LATAM) and Mentoring some new ambassadors, Amateur photographer and trying to learn about marketing and community organization
18:04:14 <tatica> and... trying to learn some english too :\
18:04:22 <lfoppiano> with my work I've been involved even in project under the hook of fedora, like func, cobbler and so on...
18:04:43 * spevack wants to be on the record as saying that lfoppiano and tatica are both awesome
18:04:44 <abadger1999> djf_jeff: Your turn
18:04:54 <lfoppiano> thanks spevack
18:04:59 <abadger1999> :-)
18:05:07 <djf_jeff> Jean-Francois Saucier (djf_jeff), Fedora Ambassador from Canada, I have been using Fedora since Core 1
18:05:12 <tatica> spevack, :P
18:06:03 <abadger1999> ke4qqq: Introduce yourself with a few words.
18:06:41 <ke4qqq> David Nalley - I have been involved with Fedora since 2006, and a user before that time. Currently serving my first term on FAmSCo, work in docs, and package a few apps/libraries, and involved in a few other floss projects
18:06:56 <abadger1999> rsc: ping?
18:07:01 <rsc> I'm Robert Scheck (robert), Fedora Ambassador since March 2007, Fedora Mentor since January 2009, and I'm from Germany. Beside of the ambassador work, I'm active at more technical parts of Fedora, like packaging and bug hunting/fixing.
18:07:19 <rsc> abadger1999: I was just waiting for you...
18:07:29 <abadger1999> Sory :-)
18:07:43 <abadger1999> susmit: If you're present, you can say a few words
18:07:46 * susmit is susmit, existing FAmSCo member from India, works with a few other fedora teams. Works as a mentor too. In free time, I try to develop apps for fedora.
18:08:20 <susmit> EOF
18:08:47 <abadger1999> Okay, I think that's all the candidates.  Anyone I missed?
18:09:09 <susmit> abadger1999, tatica
18:09:45 <spevack> tatica went early on.  she's here.
18:09:49 <tatica> susmit, yes?
18:09:55 <spevack> what should we talk about, everyone?
18:10:00 <susmit> oh..sorry
18:10:05 <tatica> susmit, :D
18:10:14 <abadger1999> Okay, first question
18:10:26 <abadger1999> 1: From inode0: While we all know how hard FAmSCo works to get resources where they are needed, are there any hotspots of Fedora activity where more attention needs to be paid currently?
18:11:06 * spevack starts writing, but others should start talking if they have something to say
18:11:58 <spevack> One of my actual job goals at Red Hat is to ensure that we have solid community success on a global scale.  A big chunk of that community success is within the Fedora Project.
18:12:14 <spevack> That doesn't just mean Ambassador-related stuff, but that we have folks contributing to many different parts of Fedora all over the world.
18:12:26 <susmit> abadger1999, do I take "activity" as "activity concerning ambassadors?"
18:12:27 <spevack> I think the areas that we need to continue to focus on are clear
18:12:47 <ke4qqq> 1: assuming he means geographically. I think there are certainly problems with moving money around globally. Shipping costs are also a constraint. largely resources need to be directed regionally - there are certainly areas where we aren't doing a good job. At the last townhall we actually discussed how some regions have ambassadors investing significant amounts of their personal money without reimbursement because of the hoops and difficulties we f
18:12:49 <spevack> We had an initial FUDCon in LATAM this year, but we can improve that sort of an event, and we will
18:13:08 <abadger1999> susmit: In the broad sense, yes.
18:13:23 <spevack> It's important to me that we bring more FADs and hopefully a FUDCon both to LATAM and India in the next 2-3 release cycles.
18:13:40 <djf_jeff> 1. I think we can help getting more people involve at a deeper level in Fedora, let say, doing some testing, packaging, etc by giving and helping them to find the resources they need
18:13:57 <spevack> ke4qqq: i didn't realize that we have areas where people aren't even bothering to get reimbursed.
18:14:08 <ke4qqq> part of the problem is communication - people don't realize the authority they have to get things done, and part is procedural.
18:14:20 <spevack> that is a HUGE PROBLEM -- and one that I personally need to look into.  Do we know the details?
18:14:33 <ke4qqq> spevack: I do, I'll pass the three individuals off to you
18:14:37 <spevack> thanks
18:14:40 <ke4qqq> I referred them to the famsco trac instance
18:15:21 <djf_jeff> 1. Another part is what ke4qqq just said, help getting the resources everywhere they are needed, setting up a process when shipping cost prohibit the use of materials made in the US for example
18:15:24 <spevack> If I had to give a grade to different regions of the world
18:15:28 <susmit> My take is while India as an island is doing very well, we are lacking in rest of APAC. Also, we have little or no presence in Africa.
18:15:38 <spevack> based solely on "how easy it is to get reimbursed and have access to FAMSCO funds"
18:15:44 <spevack> I'd say that it's Very Easy in NA
18:15:58 <spevack> Only Slightly Less Easy in EMEA
18:16:02 <rsc> We're lacking Eastern Europe as well - just less or even no presence there, when thinking about Europe
18:16:08 <spevack> and Still Hard everywhere else unless you have PayPal
18:16:11 <susmit> spevack, easy is in India too.
18:16:21 <spevack> susmit: right, it's working very well in India
18:16:49 <spevack> We still have room for improvement in LATAM and APAC -- though with patience, people are getting their rembursements.
18:17:00 <spevack> But take for example tuanta in Vietnam
18:17:06 <spevack> who was one of the F11 Release Party winners
18:17:18 <spevack> and as a result we wanted to send him to a Fedora or Linux event in his region
18:17:31 <spevack> Since there was no FUDCon or FAD, he asked if we could help him get to the Kernel Summit in Japan
18:17:34 <spevack> and we got him there
18:18:10 <tatica> 1. The Fedora budget is a recurring topic. most of the time, RH direct sponsorship holds Big events or places where they have offices (this is what I know from LATAM experience), so maybe we should try to figure out how to reach places which don't usually get help and get people really working..
18:18:15 <spevack> but his reimbursement is taking something like 6 weeks, simply due to finance lag between RH North America and RH APAC.  If he had Paypal, it would be done immediately, but not everyone does.  This is not his fault in any way, but it's an example of some of the issues we still have in different parts of the world
18:18:22 <tatica> 1. My personal opinion in this is that "the budget should help people who are actually working... not places where we expect things work"
18:18:41 <lfoppiano> tatica: +1
18:19:07 <lfoppiano> but I can say that sometimes we should try to give even to people that are less visible, the oppoortunity to organize a leat an event
18:19:11 <spevack> Well, let's talk about this for a moment.
18:19:35 <tatica> 1. Also we should try to get more sponsorship, from different companies. Why? because we can reach everywhere. So we could try to get help from sponsors who can help locally
18:19:48 <spevack> Because I would say that FAMSCO itself is very hands-off when it comes to using the budget.  We pretty much just wait for the regional Ambassadors to come and say "here's what we need" and FAMSCO just makes sure we are being reasonably fair
18:19:54 <spevack> do other folks see this differently?
18:19:57 <spevack> should things change?
18:20:16 <tatica> lfoppiano, yes, but I don't mean who has a huge success; I mean who's trying to get a huge success
18:20:37 <tatica> spevack, not always things happen this way
18:20:42 <tatica> for example, latam
18:20:44 <ke4qqq> aside from Max's involvement, I've had very little discussion of budget as a famsco member, all of it has been from a NA perspective, and not as a fmasco member.
18:20:57 <lfoppiano> yes, but sometimes the visibility different
18:21:02 <tatica> but that's an specific topic, I think isn't related to main question
18:21:53 <ke4qqq> we might have agreed to fund something in africa and asked fedora emea to handle it, but thats the only issue I recall budget wise, other than brief perusal.
18:22:57 <abadger1999> Okay, so people want to get question 2?
18:23:09 <abadger1999> It could relate to this but also be much broader :-)
18:23:15 <abadger1999> 2: from mchua: What will you be able to do as a famsco member that you wouldn't be able to do otherwise?
18:23:23 <ke4qqq> 1: and to answer your question, spevack, I think perhaps we should periodically look into the regional budgets - both to learn and see what we could be doing better globally
18:23:31 <spevack> ke4qqq: agreed
18:23:42 <spevack> let me start with this question
18:23:47 <spevack> since it's something that I wanted to talk about anyway
18:24:00 <spevack> Speaking personally, my role here is an interesting one.
18:24:34 <ke4qqq> I don't want us micromanaging, but perhaps oversight and common learning. For instance, we (NA) learned a ton from looking at what EMEA was doing
18:24:40 <spevack> Most of my work with famsco is 100% related to budget.  Last year, I also spent some extra time on EMEA-related work, but that was my RED HAT JOB, not my FAMSCO RESPONSIBILITY.
18:25:01 <spevack> And the budget stuff that I do is also part of my RED HAT JOB -- managing the Community Architecture Team, which (among other things) provides FAMSCO with its budget.
18:25:29 <spevack> In truth, I don't NEED to be on FAMSCO.  I can do all of the same things I do for Fedora without it -- I just need to be on the FAMSCO mailing list.
18:25:38 <spevack> I hate the idea of taking a seat away from a community member for no reason.
18:25:47 <spevack> Last year, I ran for famsco because there weren't very many people running.
18:26:00 <spevack> This year we have a lot of people running, and I feel conflicted about running again, because it doesn't seem necessary.
18:26:04 <spevack> EOF
18:26:36 <abadger1999> ke4qqq: you wanted to say something about learning between different regions?
18:26:50 <djf_jeff> 2. I will use my presence on famsco meeting to give voice to less represented region, like Canada. This presence will help me better understand the relation between regions and how can we help each other. But, to be fair, I think I can all do this without being in famsco. I just think that being part of it would help my goal and my understanding
18:27:09 <ke4qqq> abadger1999: I said my peace.
18:27:14 <spevack> djf_jeff: i think there's value in having new/different regions as part of famsco
18:27:29 <spevack> djf_jeff: and there's also HUGE VALUE in having EVERY REGION REPRESENTED in famsco
18:28:30 <ke4qqq> yes, we've even toyed with making a few at-large seats and a single per region seat
18:28:43 <djf_jeff> spevack: that's why I currently run for the election! I think that my presence will ease the goal that I set to myself for the next two years
18:28:50 <ke4qqq> perhaps that will happen this year.
18:28:53 <lfoppiano> 2. I want to be more active in a rule that I can do better, I think I can give more to Fedora as a famsco member than as an ambassador, now I'm living in Holland and organize events in italy is really difficult.
18:29:09 <ke4qqq> djf_jeff: whats your goal?
18:29:20 * ke4qqq wonders if he missed abadger1999 posting question 2
18:29:37 <tatica> <abadger1999> 2: from mchua: What will you be able to do as a famsco member that you wouldn't be able to do otherwise? <= ke4qqq
18:29:40 <spevack> ke4qqq: question 2 was "what can you do in famsco that you can't do anyway/otherwise within fedora"
18:29:41 <abadger1999> ke4qqq: 2: from mchua: What will you be able to do as a famsco member that you wouldn't be able to do otherwise?
18:29:59 <ke4qqq> ahhh thanks
18:30:18 <djf_jeff> ke4qqq: define a process to include a less represented region in activities related to Fedora Ambassador. I want to define how can we help them get the resources they need to be functional and help the Fedora Project the better they can
18:30:23 <ke4qqq> 2: open famsco up so that it is more open.
18:31:06 <ke4qqq> 2:.... and transparent. A good majority of our constituency has no idea what famsco does aside from the pronouncements brought to f-a-l
18:31:44 <ke4qqq> which typically means that they only see action when things are bad, or when there is a potentially unpopular decision to be explained
18:32:07 <abadger1999> Just a note for people who haven't caught on to this convention: If possible answer with the "number" + "the answer" to make it easy for people reading the logs later.
18:32:10 <ke4qqq> I think famsco needs to justify its continued existence, find a way to remain relevant, or figure an exit strategy.
18:33:21 <susmit> Answer to question 2: Otherwise I can not take responsibility for a region's success/failure. That is a huge challenge itself. Also being a FAmSCo member gives me the ability to realize my dream team of ambassadors.
18:33:22 <spevack> ke4qqq: something i said last year that I still think is true
18:33:54 <rsc> 2. I assume (as I don't know both views), I'm able to reach my plans/goals without FAmSCo, but being in makes the things maybe a bit easier.
18:34:06 <spevack> compared to, say, fesco, famsco has a lower level of daily impact in what folks do.  FAMSCO needs to make sure budget is allocated.  The work that FAMSCO has done this year in cleaning up processes and mentoring in Ambassadors is important and necessary.
18:34:11 <tatica> 2. Have more voice. I live in a region that is rarely reached out to; and I know that there are a lot of places like this arround the world. As I can see, famsco is made up of people from regions where they are doing an excellent job, but also get a lot of attention, so, being part of famsco could help me to spread my personal experiences living in a difficult country, getting goals with low resources, making a success out of events with budget fr
18:34:12 <tatica> om our ambassadors, getting countries with low ambassadors have a lot of new contributors to help other regions to learn, and let us learn us from them.
18:34:18 <spevack> but we don't want ambassadors having to ask a lot of permission of famsco for stuff.
18:34:21 <spevack> at least, I don't.
18:34:32 <spevack> I think famsco has a small role, but still an important one.
18:34:47 <spevack> it needs to exist, but it also needs to be smart about what it chooses to touch, and not to touch
18:35:12 <tatica> 2. Also, as I said in my statement, I will let everyone know what I'm doing (just like I'm doing right now) so famsco should be more reachble to places where there's some kind of conflict... as a wise person told me yesterday "if famsco is the door and regions are a hand trying to reach it, we will be the handle"... or something like that.
18:35:50 <tatica> spevack, could you explain me a little bit more about "" but it also needs to be smart about what it chooses to touch, and not to touch""
18:35:57 <susmit> IMO, making FAmSCo very visible is not my goal. Make it one which can enable ambassadors where needed but does not try to micromanage it.
18:36:00 <tatica> I think I didn't understand it so well :S
18:36:21 <ke4qqq> I think famsco has done a good job of setting some ground rules, and then largely getting out of the way, I hope that continues to be the case. I'll be honest and say that 18 months ago I doubted whether famsco needed to exist. I think it does, after serving on it for a year, but the fact that those outside famsco often question it is the real problem. It means we aren't being transparent enough IMO.
18:36:31 <djf_jeff> I personally don't see famsco micromanage the region, I see famsco doing more a global management, helping the regions when they ask help
18:36:36 <spevack> tatica: sure.
18:37:35 <abadger1999> Thank you for sharing yur thoughts, if I could give the next question, I think it is a good one:
18:37:41 <abadger1999> 3: From fugolni: What will be, in your opinion, the next big step FAmSCo should work on?
18:38:46 <ke4qqq> 3: making famsco a bit more transparent (despite the fact that it makes me sound a bit repetitive)
18:39:03 <spevack> tatica: regarding the previous question -- I guess my point is that FAMSCO needs to make a list and say "here are the 3 things most important to Ambassadors that need to happen at a global level" and then focus on those, and be careful not to bother the individual regions too much, except to watch out for problems and fix them
18:40:02 <susmit> 3: Getting ambassadors to contribute/get contributors for other projects which lack manpower. Ambassadors are not recruiting new people as they should. We haven't seen many new faces in other teams.
18:40:40 <spevack> 3: though it's likely a dream -- I'd like to find a way to get a FAMSCO "credit card" or something like that which we can use all over the world.  This won't be very transparent because it basically involves me having a bunch of meetings with Red Hat finance folks, but the end result of that would be a much easier experience for a lot of people, and that would be transparent
18:40:49 <djf_jeff> 3. I would also like to make famsco more transparent, define what famsco is, what it do, where it act, etc. I want to see famsco ease the communication between famsco member and ambassadors from everywhere
18:40:50 <ke4qqq> susmit: +1 - I think our charter should actually have "recruiting new contributors" added as a key tenet.
18:41:00 <spevack> I want to separate famsco's budget from the rest of the Red Hat Community Architecture budget.
18:41:01 <rsc> 3. Trying to get ambassadors out there to events etc. to get new contributors, e.g. for QA or testing or wherelse we're lacking people - especially as we need contributors to life.
18:41:23 <ke4qqq> spevack: what's the benefit to famsco/ambassadors in doing that?
18:41:44 <ke4qqq> spevack: are you referring to a setup like emea has? or??
18:41:52 <spevack> no, even simpler
18:41:54 <lfoppiano> 3. making famsco more transparent, simplify the procedure (try to have a more strict and structured way) the ambassadors are getting involved in events
18:42:23 <rsc> 3. And we of course need to get ambassadors to events where we're lacking Fedora presence right now. I'm sure, there are many resources that are interested and willing to help, but maybe need a personal talk from face to face to get them part of Fedora.
18:42:35 <spevack> ke4qqq: I'd like to be able to have a credit card number that can be shared with all the regional leaders that enables certain people to spend Red Hat's money directly without having to go through me at all.
18:42:58 <spevack> ke4qqq: I'm just always trying to think of ways to reduce dependencies on the Fedora->RH interface when it comes to finance.
18:43:31 <ke4qqq> spevack: really money is the source of a lot of problems - from how to shuttle it to how to take it in.
18:43:40 <abadger1999> Another question from mchua:
18:43:40 <djf_jeff> 3. I would like to see famsco help with the campus initiative, give the resources and time to launch this idea at large
18:43:53 <abadger1999> 4: From mchua: New projects are exciting, but resources aren't infinite. If you had to pick something famsco does to put on famsco's not-to-do list, what would it be and why?
18:44:01 <tatica> 3. Reach places that are having difficulties. We know that a lot of countries/regions are working and don't need so much attention. We have great ambassadors making things happen. So, why is all the attention still on all those places? The main idea of Fedora is to reach new places and help regions/countries that are having difficulties to achieve their goals.
18:44:43 <abadger1999> djf_jeff: Hold and expand that thought, the next question is about that.
18:44:51 <ke4qqq> it's the motivation for these private orgs such as fedora emea - because that is so 'difficult' to work with/around. It'd almost be nice if from a 'company credit card' status, regional ambassadors were considered 'employees' or 'contractors' and handed credit cards for that purpose.
18:44:57 <spevack> 4: I don't think we've reached our resource cap yet.  That would be a good problem to have.
18:45:23 <spevack> ke4qqq: that's kind of what i'm getting at
18:45:49 <spevack> How can I give a credit card to someone who is a Fedora contributor and have their expenses hit my budget.
18:45:53 <susmit> 4:  section 26 paragraph 5 ;)
18:45:56 <djf_jeff> 4. That would be hard... I think that if we reach that status, we will need to see what we can delegate to regions to better spread the work
18:46:17 <rsc> ke4qqq: yes, non-profit organisations don't make things easier - even they help us on the other hand
18:46:18 <tatica> 3. So Famsco should start to delegate... we all have to do this at some point (but not forgetting countries that are already working) Famsco has big hands to help a lot of people (or that's what I see from the outside at least, and is what I want to check from inside) so if marketing, artwork, ambassadors, developers... and everyone's goal is to be better, faster and more productive, we shouldn't stay stagnant in regions with lots of goals.
18:46:32 <ke4qqq> 4: I'd reduce our weekly meetings to biweekly.
18:47:13 <spevack> We need to make sure that famsco folks are in all of the regional ambassador meetings.  Because that's where the real work happens anyway.
18:47:30 <ke4qqq> +1
18:47:43 <susmit> and we need to have monthly report from each member about their region.
18:47:49 <spevack> famsco helps with process and should help with removing roadblocks.
18:48:13 <lfoppiano> 4. the question 4 is about Famsco resource  or budget?
18:48:20 <spevack> the strategy of what we do in regions should come from those regional meetings, with famsco folks giving input and help, but not forcing the decisions.
18:48:25 <spevack> susmit: yes
18:48:26 <lfoppiano> I mean resource as people?
18:48:27 <tatica> spevack, I rather to say "famsco people" not only should try to be at meetings... meetings is once a month normaly and a lot of thins happens in between
18:48:59 <spevack> tatica: well, not all famsco people need to go to all meetings, but some famsco person should be in each meeting.
18:49:31 <tatica> yes, I know that, but meetings is just one thing, and usually 1 hour
18:49:41 <tatica> and things happens outside those meetings
18:50:23 <tatica> is like a kid at school, you not only ask her teacher how is he behaving; you try to get her friends... and their mothers... and so on
18:50:48 <abadger1999> lfoppiano: <mchua> lfoppiano: I meant "man-hours worked by famsco members" but I'm happy with any interpretation of the word "resources" that you want to use.
18:50:53 <ke4qqq> tatica: is even better if you are involved and participating in the classroom
18:51:21 <tatica> ke4qqq, now you get my point
18:51:26 <lfoppiano> 4. about this question, what I want to change is a bit the time people spend to communicate. I mean, I prefer to do less meetings but with more people (more qualitatives) and with more involved people...
18:51:35 <tatica> but you not only go at parents mettings... and that's what meetings are
18:51:59 <tatica> my point: not everything is told in regular meetings
18:53:01 <abadger1999> There's one more question in the queue that I think would be good to get to.
18:53:09 <abadger1999> 5: alukin: What do you see as FAMSCo's role in promoting fedora in universities?
18:53:10 <susmit> tatica, a famsco member should be ubiquitous when it comes to ambassadors stuff. Meeting is one of those.
18:53:30 <lfoppiano> tatica I would like to start discussion via voice instead via irc
18:53:42 <tatica> lfoppiano, +1
18:54:18 <spevack> 5: alukin I'll give you a slightly round-about answer to that question.
18:54:31 <tatica> susmit, lol... my experience is complete opposite
18:54:33 <lfoppiano> 4. and this is the important part I want to do to improve che communication within the famsco
18:54:39 <lfoppiano> 4 (voip)
18:54:53 <spevack> It's important that we have a High Quality Message about Fedora and The Open Source Way that we can deliver all over the world, and that we can tailor for specific audiences.
18:55:02 <ke4qqq> 5: we've seen the ambassadors campus initiative flop around a bit unfortunately. I think that's a problem. I think we likely need to make sure that gets owned (and I have great faith that lcafiero and company will do wonderful stuff) but it needs an owner who is passionate and will make it happen. Lots of potential there, and it's something we at least say we want to do.
18:55:04 <spevack> Sometimes those audiences will be universities -- either professors or students.
18:55:14 <spevack> The question is "where does that message come from"
18:55:18 <spevack> and then "how do we spread it"
18:55:42 <spevack> I think that folks like mchua who does a ton of educational work for Red Hat and also in the Fedora space can talk a lot about "where does the message come from"
18:55:44 <rsc> 5: I think, promoting Fedora isn't the task of FAmSCo. Surely FAmSCo can point out such events...
18:56:07 <spevack> and organizations like famsco need to make sure that we are finding out about university opportunities, helping people take advantage of those opportunities, and then figuring out how to follow up
18:57:05 <spevack> so Fedora's "university engagement" is really a very broad topic that touches a lot of different areas, but famsco can have a role in it from a resource point of view (budget) and also from a people point of view (making sure that folks can establish local connections).  I think there's a lot of overlap with the Education SIG
18:57:59 <tatica> 4. Having enough resources isn't the problem, it's how they are spent. The Famsco to-do list is important and if we stop paying attention to some things we are not making any progress. For me, the main problem is reaching places we still haven't established ourselves in
18:58:03 * tatica is too slow
18:58:10 <ke4qqq> famsco really doesn't have the ability to tackle the global university 'challenge' but we can make sure resources are available to those who want to do the work. and that's what we want to make sure happens. If someone wants to start a campus ambassador program - great, what do we need to make sure they have to succeed.
18:58:20 <djf_jeff> 5. I think famsco can help promote this initiative around regions, helping in the definition of the project, define some point in time to make a review of what was done and what need to be done
18:58:42 <rsc> djf_jeff: +1
18:59:09 <abadger1999> 5: mchua notes: there are other education-and-open-source initiatives that have been *directly* inspired by famsco + Ambassadors for instance, see http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/Conferences#Upcoming_events
18:59:10 <abadger1999> 5: mchua: so one thing famsco could also do is serve as a role model for other ambassador-like programmes instead of trying to do it all within the Fedora umbrella
18:59:30 <susmit> 5: Here in India, most of the participants from engineering colleges. We *discourage* them to be only ambassador. We point them to be other technical teams (FEL, Web, Infra)and try to guide them. We don't want sun ambassador program's repetition here.
18:59:44 <ke4qqq> +1 susmit
18:59:58 <ke4qqq> IMO every ambassador should be involved in something else within fedora
19:00:36 <tatica> +1
19:00:48 <lfoppiano> 5. What I think Famsco can do is give little more importance to the events inside university. University is like a base where to start people that can help fedora and in the same moent, can be helped by fedora...
19:00:50 <rsc> susmit: +1, but as a should, not as a must. There are always good exceptions.
19:01:06 <tatica> I think is a MUST, because not everything is code
19:01:18 <tatica> so they must help with "something" to improve fedora... anyway
19:01:26 <tatica> code, art, talks... anything
19:01:42 <ke4qqq> how can they represent fedora if they don't know about how the project works, and they can't learn that without 'doing'
19:02:00 <ke4qqq> there may be an exception, but I'd say it is rare
19:02:03 <abadger1999> Okay ladies and gentlemen, we've reached the end of our hour.
19:02:10 <spevack> mchua: lots of interesting edu-related discussion here :)
19:02:19 <djf_jeff> ke4qqq: I know plenty of people representing the project without "doing" something. They are passionate user and spread the word
19:02:28 <abadger1999> Would people like to say a few last words?
19:02:34 <spevack> Universities are where we should be looking for the next generation of Fedora Contributors -- not just Ambassadors.
19:02:47 <susmit> spevack, +1
19:02:50 <abadger1999> And then we can continue discussions in #fedora-townhall-public
19:02:53 <spevack> Current Ambassadors can serve as "recruiters" who can help university students find their place anywhere within Fedora
19:02:58 <ke4qqq> +1 - it helps that they also tend to have fewer distractions and more time
19:03:03 <spevack> abadger1999: thanks for moderating
19:03:03 <tatica> 5. Fedora has to provide tools to reach universities. We can get to an university just ofering them "the enviroment", We can't go to universities offering them only 'the environment', we have to try to reach them with spins, and do more for the degrees which we can't yet provide specialist software for those careers that we still can provide. That's what we are doing in LATAM and it's working (slowly, but it works). We must remember that universit
19:03:03 <tatica> ies are the main provider of potential ambassadors/contributors, so we must give them professional tools to work with
19:03:21 <djf_jeff> abadger1999: thank you for taking your time to help this election
19:03:28 <ke4qqq> +1 thanks abadger1999
19:03:32 <susmit> abadger1999, thanks
19:03:35 * inode0 would like to take a moment to thank the candidates for their thoughtful discussion, the public for asking great questions, and abadger1999 for his excellent job moderating the mayhem
19:03:43 <tatica> just in time
19:03:53 <tatica> my English is really slow
19:04:02 <abadger1999> I'm just a monkey, inode0 is the real organizer this time :-)
19:04:07 <tatica> abadger1999, :D
19:04:15 * ke4qqq must depart for at least a few minutes.
19:04:16 <tatica> lol!... don't say that please
19:04:26 * abadger1999 thanks inode0 for his work
19:04:41 <tatica> inode0, abadger1999 both of you rox :D
19:04:57 <abadger1999> Thank you everyone.  #fedora-townhall-public for any follow on discussion.
19:04:58 <rsc> abadger1999: thanks for moderating and being the monkey ;)
19:04:59 <abadger1999> #endmeeting