13:01:09 <bt0> #startmeeting NeuroFedora - 2020-11-16
13:01:09 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Nov 16 13:01:09 2020 UTC.
13:01:09 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
13:01:09 <zodbot> The chair is bt0. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:01:09 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:01:09 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'neurofedora_-_2020-11-16'
13:01:19 <bt0> #meetingname neurofedora
13:01:19 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'neurofedora'
13:01:54 <bt0> #chair FranciscoD MeWjOr iztok85
13:01:54 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD MeWjOr bt0 iztok85
13:02:14 <bt0> #topic Today's Agenda
13:02:33 <bt0> #info introductions and roll call
13:02:33 <bt0> #info Tasks from last bi-week's meeting:
13:02:33 <bt0> #info Open Pagure tickets
13:02:33 <bt0> #info Open NeuroFedora bugs
13:02:33 <bt0> #info Koschei packages check
13:02:33 <bt0> #info CompNeuro lab compose status check for F33/F34
13:02:35 <bt0> #info Neuroscience query of the week
13:02:37 <bt0> #info Next meeting day, and chair
13:02:39 <bt0> #info open floor
13:02:50 <bt0> #topic introductions and roll call
13:03:44 <FranciscoD> #info FAS: ankursinha, Ankur Sinha, IRC: FranciscoD ; NeuroFedora, packaging, Fedora-join, Ask Fedora etc. UTC+1 (Europe/London)
13:04:33 <bt0> #info Alberto Rodriguez Sanchez, FAS: bt0dotninja, IRC: bt0; CommOps, NeuroFedora, Marketing, fedora-join, mindshare, etc. ; UTC -6
13:05:40 <MeWjOr> #info Aniket Pradhan, FAS: major, IRC/Telegram: MeWjOr NeuroFedora, Packaging, random stuff; UTC+5:30
13:06:18 <bt0> I will wait a couple of minutes more until the next topic :)
13:06:54 <bt0> #chair AarKiMos
13:06:54 <zodbot> Current chairs: AarKiMos FranciscoD MeWjOr bt0 iztok85
13:07:23 <MeWjOr> Hey there AarKiMos
13:07:55 <AarKiMos> hello,
13:08:17 <bt0> Welcome AarKiMos
13:08:18 <AarKiMos> I am a newcomer, just observing for now
13:08:28 <MeWjOr> :D
13:08:36 <FranciscoD> AarKiMos++
13:08:54 <FranciscoD> aarkimos++
13:08:57 <zodbot> FranciscoD: Karma for aarkimos changed to 1 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:09:01 <FranciscoD> there we go :)
13:09:12 <bt0> Ok, Next topic (aarkimos++ too)
13:09:30 <bt0> aarkimos++
13:09:30 <zodbot> bt0: Karma for aarkimos changed to 2 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:09:31 <MeWjOr> aarkimos++
13:09:33 <zodbot> MeWjOr: Karma for aarkimos changed to 3 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:09:37 <AarKiMos> thanks
13:09:41 <bt0> #topic Task from the last meeting
13:09:50 <bt0> #link https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/neurofedora/neurofedora.2020-11-02-13.01.html
13:11:03 <bt0> #info MeWjOr Work over the update for python-mne
13:11:25 <MeWjOr> Ahh... it's still a WIP
13:11:38 <bt0> cool, next one
13:11:42 <MeWjOr> they just released a 0.21.2, will try if that fixes stuff
13:11:45 <bt0> #info MeWjOr Fix the deps for python-odml
13:12:02 <MeWjOr> stuck with license on that :P
13:12:07 <bt0> :P
13:12:24 <FranciscoD> bt0: best to keep re-doing the action command too, so we have them again in the log next time?
13:12:32 <bt0> sure
13:13:10 <bt0> #action the awesome MeWjOr Work over the update for python-mne
13:13:30 <bt0> #action MeWjOr Fix the deps for python-odml
13:13:37 * MeWjOr blushes
13:13:43 <bt0> #info FranciscoD Checkout nest at the next meeting if its building fine or not
13:14:18 <FranciscoD> it's building now, was something to do with koji
13:14:39 <bt0> ok, re action it
13:14:50 <FranciscoD> no, solved :)
13:14:55 <bt0> awesome
13:15:04 <FranciscoD> sorry, I meant "it builds now"
13:15:06 <FranciscoD> :)
13:15:23 <bt0> #info alciregi check on python-pydicom package
13:16:11 <tg-fedneuro1> <b​t0dotninja> Alessio ate you here?
13:16:25 <tg-fedneuro1> <b​t0dotninja> (edited) Alessio, are you here?
13:17:19 <bt0> maybe no, re action
13:17:35 <FranciscoD> +1
13:17:36 <bt0> #action alciregi check on python-pydicom package
13:18:05 <bt0> the next one is good
13:18:10 <bt0> #info everyone Think over some ideas as to what we can present at FOSDEM 21
13:18:33 <FranciscoD> I was thinking perhaps we could show how to use fedora containers, and install stuff on them to work
13:18:49 <FranciscoD> 🤔
13:19:01 <FranciscoD> as another use-case for NeuroFedora
13:19:08 <MeWjOr> Interesting thought, FranciscoD
13:19:13 <bt0> sounds cool
13:19:33 <MeWjOr> I was not able to get the time to think much about it
13:19:36 <FranciscoD> that'll help with reproducibility---people can make fedora based docker containers etc
13:19:52 <FranciscoD> MeWjOr: i was looking at updating the docker page on the docs and thought this was newish
13:20:31 <bt0> I can make a parallel process with podman
13:20:33 <MeWjOr> umm, yes... we do have a tracker to make a docker image for NeuroFedora
13:20:50 <FranciscoD> yeh, we don't necessarily need a docker image yet
13:21:00 <FranciscoD> just pull fedora:33, and then install stuff on it etc?
13:21:02 <FranciscoD> less work
13:21:04 <FranciscoD> :D
13:21:06 <bt0> actually we can use the same Docker File to generate both images
13:21:25 <bt0> docker and podman
13:21:28 <FranciscoD> +1
13:21:51 <FranciscoD> and it is possible to have container images for packages, but that's lots of work---needs a review etc.
13:22:05 <MeWjOr> I don't know much about docker images, but both sound plausible
13:22:15 <bt0> sure
13:22:48 <FranciscoD> MeWjOr: you just "pull" the container, and then you can run it like a vm and do whatever you want pretty much
13:23:04 <FranciscoD> and you can make customised "images" etc
13:23:24 <FranciscoD> I can do a quick demo next meeting?
13:23:28 <bt0> we can propose a base docker-file and fork it to generate the new images
13:23:43 <FranciscoD> +1
13:23:55 <bt0> let me do it
13:24:03 <FranciscoD> it can have the same packages as the comp-neuro installer image perhaps
13:24:03 <MeWjOr> +1 works great
13:24:07 <FranciscoD> minus the workstation etc?
13:24:35 <bt0> #action bt0 will generate a base docker-file for the neurofedora Docker/podman image
13:25:17 <bt0> sounds good?
13:25:21 <FranciscoD> +1
13:25:45 <MeWjOr> ++
13:26:48 <bt0> awesome I will work on it and update the ticket #374
13:27:03 <bt0> #link https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issue/374
13:27:32 <bt0> another ideas for the FOSDEM 21?
13:28:15 <FranciscoD> not too many---may be a dev session on our pipeline etc
13:29:05 <bt0> #idea Dev session on FOSDEM 21
13:29:32 <bt0> Ok, next topic
13:29:36 <bt0> #topic Open Pagure tickets
13:29:43 <bt0> #link https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issues?status=Open&tags=S%3A+Next+meeting
13:29:53 <bt0> #info Ticket 318 NeuroFedora reading/listening list
13:30:01 <bt0> #link https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issue/318
13:30:08 <bt0> We have only this one
13:31:50 <bt0> but noting to do (ok reading of course, but noting actionable)
13:32:25 <bt0> next topic :)
13:32:28 <bt0> #topic Open NeuroFedora bugs
13:32:37 <bt0> #link https://tinyurl.com/neurofedora-bugs
13:33:07 <MeWjOr> I still see the mne bug there :P
13:33:08 <bt0> many new bugs
13:33:57 <bt0> thanks MeWj0r++
13:34:09 <bt0> MeWjOr++
13:34:09 <zodbot> bt0: Karma for major changed to 2 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:34:16 <bt0> :)
13:34:16 <MeWjOr> :D
13:35:54 <bt0> I don't see urgent tickets here. do you?
13:36:08 <MeWjOr> some simple updates imo
13:36:15 <tg-fedneuro1> Jorge has left the Telegram Group.
13:36:15 <MeWjOr> and FTBFS >.<
13:36:59 <bt0> :(
13:37:42 <bt0> next topic...
13:38:02 <bt0> #topic Koschei packages check
13:38:12 <bt0> #link https://koschei.fedoraproject.org/groups/neuro-sig
13:39:51 <bt0> I see neurord, python-lfpy, python-missingno, pydicom
13:40:18 <bt0> how can i help here?
13:41:50 <bt0> looking logs or something?
13:42:24 <MeWjOr> wait... missingno was a dep for chaospy...
13:42:40 <MeWjOr> and it has a new update probably
13:42:54 <MeWjOr> it might turn out to be a mess in the future
13:43:06 <bt0> lol, yes
13:43:36 <MeWjOr> I'll probably look into it if time allows
13:44:05 <bt0> it's fine, let me know if you need help :)
13:44:42 <bt0> next topic :P
13:44:53 <bt0> #topic CompNeuro lab compose status check for F33/F34
13:45:00 <bt0> #link https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=30691
13:45:59 <MeWjOr> There was a compose failure recently, but it was because of some low level dep (don't remember the name)
13:46:07 <MeWjOr> it got fixed, and everything's smooth
13:46:29 <bt0> yeah looks fine
13:48:03 <bt0> next topic ...
13:48:06 <bt0> #topic Neuroscience query of the week
13:49:15 <bt0> We have a query? or I need to find one?
13:49:38 <MeWjOr> Maybe FranciscoD could help us with it
13:49:40 <MeWjOr> :P
13:49:49 <bt0> :P
13:49:56 <FranciscoD> a query?
13:50:04 <FranciscoD> hrm, well, nothing off the top of my hea
13:50:06 <FranciscoD> *head
13:50:47 <FranciscoD> what are folks interested in?
13:51:06 <FranciscoD> there's this paper on how deep learning informs neuroscience: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41583-020-00395-8
13:51:30 <FranciscoD> I have access to it, so if someone wants the pdf, let me know :)
13:51:51 <FranciscoD> (if it isn't open access, that is)
13:51:56 <bt0> ;)
13:52:21 <FranciscoD> I'll add it to the reading list too---worth a skim
13:52:25 <MeWjOr> it isn't open access... will have to connect to my institute's network
13:52:35 <bt0> My university has subscription too
13:52:35 <fm-neuro> pagure.issue.comment.added -- ankursinha commented on ticket neuro-sig/NeuroFedora#318: "NeuroFedora reading/listening list" https://pagure.io/neuro-sig/NeuroFedora/issue/318#comment-701656
13:52:54 <FranciscoD> let me know if you can't get it, I'll e-mail it to you
13:53:18 <bt0> cool, thanks FranciscoD++
13:53:18 <zodbot> bt0: Karma for ankursinha changed to 4 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:53:37 <bt0> #topic Next meeting day, and chair.
13:53:37 <MeWjOr> Isn't the current understanding of perception of Neural nets similar to that of the brain?
13:53:46 <MeWjOr> I always thought it was
13:53:46 <bt0> #undo
13:53:46 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x7f37a39833d0>
13:53:58 <FranciscoD> MeWjOr: what do you mean by "perception"?
13:54:15 <MeWjOr> umm... interesting XD
13:54:27 <FranciscoD> neural nets do specific tasks---they can be trained to do specific ones
13:55:06 <FranciscoD> and there are similarities with the brain, but neural nets don't generalise etc---and online learning is still not easy
13:55:21 <MeWjOr> basically I meant how CNNs understand the patterns in the fourier domain, so in that we defined the "perception" from the filter size
13:55:30 <MeWjOr> sort of like, how small features it can understand
13:55:45 <FranciscoD> well, the question is whether it is actually "understanding" anything :D
13:56:20 <MeWjOr> not understanding, but recognising the pattern...
13:56:30 <MeWjOr> but yes, not understanding
13:56:36 <FranciscoD> Yeh, that's a better word I guess
13:56:48 <bt0> sounds better
13:57:17 <FranciscoD> but since they're rate based, i.e., rates of neuronal firing is what is used, they ignore the information that the brain has in "spikes"
13:57:34 <FranciscoD> and the timing between spikes (inter-spike intervals) etc.
13:57:59 <FranciscoD> If you want to see how RNNs are used in neuroscience, look for David Sussillo's papers. They've been using them quite a bit recently
13:58:22 <bt0> cool
13:58:28 <FranciscoD> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896627309005479
13:58:31 <bt0> next topic
13:58:45 <MeWjOr> Are people still working on RNNs for neuroscience? Isn't the transformer network the new thing now?
13:58:56 <FranciscoD> https://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/10.1162/NECO_a_00409
13:59:10 <MeWjOr> idk, machine learning stuff moves really fast XD
13:59:16 <FranciscoD> no, RNNs are still around---with chaotic etc.
13:59:28 <FranciscoD> but it depends on whether one is trying to do ML, or if one is trying to understand the brain
13:59:40 <MeWjOr> ohh, yes
14:00:05 <MeWjOr> thanks for the references... I'll try to look them up :D
14:00:13 <bt0> The real science don't understand about fashions
14:00:25 <bt0> #topic Next meeting day, and chair
14:01:28 <FranciscoD> 2 weeks again? seems to work well
14:01:33 <FranciscoD> MeWjOr or I can chair?
14:01:38 <bt0> we need a chair for the next meeting in November 30, some one is a volunteer?
14:01:47 <MeWjOr> That would be my end-sem test month... I don't think I will be able to chair
14:01:52 <bt0> or me again, This hour is good for me
14:01:55 <FranciscoD> I'll chair, no worries
14:02:00 <MeWjOr> Great
14:02:01 <MeWjOr> :D
14:02:04 <FranciscoD> bt0: good for us all to take turns :)
14:02:06 <bt0> cool
14:03:19 <bt0> #action Next meeting November 30, same time in two weeks. FranciscoD  will chair the meeting
14:03:31 <bt0> #topic openfloor
14:03:45 <bt0> #action bt0 send out the meeting logs
14:04:02 <bt0> Anything for Open Floor?
14:04:30 <FranciscoD> nothing from me
14:04:42 <FranciscoD> will look into packages---busy times at the end of the year, unfortunately
14:05:47 <bt0> yeah
14:06:12 <bt0> the whole project slows down theri activities bc the holidays
14:06:22 <bt0> *their
14:06:31 <bt0> I will close the meeting
14:07:10 <bt0> #endmeeting