mindshare
MINUTES
17:30:17 <riecatnor> #startmeeting Mindshare (2020-05-27)
17:30:17 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed May 27 17:30:17 2020 UTC.
17:30:17 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:30:17 <zodbot> The chair is riecatnor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:30:17 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:30:17 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'mindshare_(2020-05-27)'
17:30:17 <riecatnor> #meetingname Mindshare
17:30:17 <riecatnor> #chair bt0dotninja codeblock hhlp nb pbokoc riecatnor sumantrom x3mboy
17:30:17 <riecatnor> #info Agenda is at: https://board.net/p/fedora-mindshare
17:30:17 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'mindshare'
17:30:17 <zodbot> Current chairs: bt0dotninja codeblock hhlp nb pbokoc riecatnor sumantrom x3mboy
17:30:17 <riecatnor> #info About Mindshare: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare/
17:30:17 <riecatnor> #topic Hello
17:30:27 <nb> .hello2
17:30:28 <zodbot> nb: Something blew up, please try again
17:30:28 <riecatnor> roll call :D whose here today
17:30:36 <nb> umm, ok?
17:30:38 <nb> .hello nb
17:30:39 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> Me
17:30:39 <zodbot> nb: nb 'Nick Bebout' <nick@bebout.net>
17:30:42 <nb> .hello2
17:30:43 <zodbot> nb: nb 'Nick Bebout' <nick@bebout.net>
17:30:44 <pbokoc> hi everyone
17:30:44 <riecatnor> I saw this earlier today in the council meeting
17:30:45 <siddharthvipul> .hello siddharthvipul1
17:30:46 <zodbot> siddharthvipul: siddharthvipul1 'Vipul Siddharth' <siddharthvipul1@gmail.com>
17:30:53 <hhlp> .hello hhlp
17:30:53 <sumantro> .hello sumantrom
17:30:53 <zodbot> hhlp: hhlp 'Héctor H. Louzao P.' <louzaoh@gmail.com>
17:30:56 <zodbot> sumantro: sumantrom 'Sumantro Mukherjee' <sumukher@redhat.com>
17:31:03 <nb> relrod, ping
17:31:04 <zodbot> nb: Ping with data, please: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/No_naked_pings
17:31:12 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> Alberto Rodríguez bt0dotninja
17:31:18 <relrod> .
17:31:28 <x3mboy> .hello2
17:31:29 <zodbot> x3mboy: x3mboy 'Eduard Lucena' <eduardlucena@gmail.com>
17:31:33 <riecatnor> hey everyone!
17:31:45 <siddharthvipul> oh relrod, i had something to ask you regarding outreachy.. are you in #fedora-outreachy?
17:32:07 <relrod> no, but I can be
17:32:20 <siddharthvipul> relrod: would be a good place :P just a small doubt
17:32:24 <siddharthvipul> thank you :D
17:32:32 <relrod> siddharthvipul: though... we kinda lost our intern due to a conflict she had
17:32:39 <relrod> for websites
17:32:46 <riecatnor> Oh, yes that is the question
17:32:47 <siddharthvipul> aah, that's what I wanted to know..
17:33:15 <relrod> She's still doing work voluntarily, but unofficially
17:33:28 <relrod> She sent me a mockup today
17:33:56 <siddharthvipul> okay, just wanted to write projects in the outreachy doc.. will leave it out (since it's not a part of outreachy anymore) :)
17:34:02 <relrod> yep
17:34:56 <riecatnor> Before we look at tickets or anything
17:35:23 <riecatnor> I wanted to give folks a chance to say whatever they want or need to say about the mindshare ticket opened about telegram
17:35:28 <riecatnor> #topic telegram ticket
17:35:54 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> Telegram ticket?
17:35:55 <riecatnor> I closed the ticket, and asked them to move it elsewhere. I did see our team engaging a bit tho, is everyone ok?
17:36:04 <riecatnor> About moderation
17:36:14 <x3mboy> I'm ok now
17:36:23 <x3mboy> The mods are also ok
17:36:43 <x3mboy> It was a little bit tense, but now everyone is more calm
17:36:54 <riecatnor> Ok, x3mboy, really glad to hear that
17:36:55 <bt0> Ohh, Sorry for missplaced that ticket
17:37:17 <riecatnor> bt0, don't think you have to be sorry for anything :)
17:39:07 <riecatnor> if there is nothing else, we can move on. if people have thoughts they don't want to say publicly, a DM is okay with me
17:39:25 <bt0> when the ticket owner asked on CommOps I pointed it here, then I read it and see the screenshot with the nick of the 15yo boy
17:40:16 <riecatnor> I see, have we done much with telegram policies in the past? I thought that was a council thing
17:40:18 <bt0> i unilaterally make it private
17:40:34 <riecatnor> that was the right call
17:41:05 <siddharthvipul> bt0: how does one becomes Admin? (question is to understand the policy and willingness to become one)
17:41:14 <siddharthvipul> *not* willingness
17:41:29 <riecatnor> so really anything that is calling anyone else out needs to go to the CoC. I know the person said they took out names from that log, but anyone reading it could see who it was.
17:41:42 <bt0> Admin of a telegram channel?
17:41:56 <x3mboy> riecatnor, well, actually it was a lot in the past
17:42:01 <siddharthvipul> bt0: yeah, just wondering if there is a process
17:42:35 <bt0> I don't know, I become admin when i decide clear spam from some channels
17:42:44 <siddharthvipul> ah, thanks :)
17:42:53 <x3mboy> I passed the query to the Council, because I wanted the telegram group was recognized as official
17:43:13 <x3mboy> I proposed some guidelines to make any channel to be recognized
17:43:15 <sumantro> siddharthvipul, there is a process.. we just need a way to document it in a better manner ( I believe). The directory problem, the one picked up during council meeting..will solve that one to an extent.
17:43:50 <riecatnor> afaik, the admins of the telegram group choose and vote on any new admins.
17:44:02 <riecatnor> For other channels, idk
17:44:14 <sumantro> riecatnor, yes
17:44:30 <x3mboy> siddharthvipul, I can put a document together
17:44:38 <x3mboy> If there is needed
17:44:45 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> cool
17:45:02 <siddharthvipul> x3mboy: since I already know the answer, I am fine without the doc as well :)
17:45:03 <x3mboy> But basically an admin propose one, and we vote yes or no
17:45:10 <siddharthvipul> but a doc is never a bad idea :)
17:45:26 <x3mboy> Lazy consensus apply
17:45:33 <x3mboy> If there is a -1 then no
17:45:51 <x3mboy> If there are more than 50% +1 and no -1, then yes
17:46:00 <riecatnor> x3mboy, I don't think it's necessary.
17:46:04 <x3mboy> Ok
17:46:18 <riecatnor> Would be better to focus on this: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/mindshare@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/NGFDSDIA3JLHVGNLBLB6DVHPAYXU2HWS/
17:46:32 <x3mboy> riecatnor, agreed
17:46:36 <x3mboy> I already fork that
17:46:45 <x3mboy> I think I will work on that this weekend
17:46:45 <riecatnor> x3mboy, great!
17:46:52 <x3mboy> Maybe next week
17:46:54 <siddharthvipul> \o/
17:46:56 <riecatnor> Sure :)
17:47:22 <sumantro> :)
17:48:17 <riecatnor> ok so.. thanks for the thoughts. Glad to see things moving in a better direction
17:48:23 <riecatnor> #topics tickets
17:48:28 <riecatnor> #topic tickets
17:48:29 <riecatnor> ;P
17:48:38 <riecatnor> https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/215
17:48:40 <riecatnor> #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/215
17:49:05 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> +1
17:49:41 <riecatnor> anyone opposed?
17:50:13 * bt0 no
17:50:56 * hhlp no
17:51:11 * x3mboy no
17:51:56 <riecatnor> ok sumantro do your thing :D
17:52:03 <siddharthvipul> good set of responsibilities for the mentored-seat, it can always be modified later if it lacks certain things, right?
17:52:13 <sumantro> yes
17:52:14 <riecatnor> follow up ticket
17:52:16 <riecatnor> #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/216
17:52:19 <sumantro> send a PR :D
17:52:27 <riecatnor> absolutely siddharthvipul :D
17:52:41 <sumantro> riecatnor, #216 will take care of it :D
17:53:03 <siddharthvipul> sigh, we can also reduce them, right? :P
17:53:04 <riecatnor> I just want to make sure everyone sees 216
17:53:30 <riecatnor> and you know, forever hold your peace, bc then siddharthvipul will be in every meeting :P
17:53:53 <siddharthvipul> ohh, yikes, and that person speaks a lot
17:54:17 <sumantro> :P
17:54:18 <pbokoc> hehe
17:54:44 <riecatnor> welcome unofficially, next week we give you the full welcome
17:54:48 <riecatnor> #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/213
17:55:06 <riecatnor> I need to ask on 213 for the credentials. anything else or can we close this?
17:55:28 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> +1 to close
17:55:40 <x3mboy> +1 to close too
17:55:54 <siddharthvipul> unofficial +1 to close. riecatnor maybe you can link your gpg keys there for them to share credentials
17:55:56 <sumantro> +1 to close, #216 too .. since I am finishing the commit rn :D
17:56:30 <hhlp> +1 to close too
17:56:53 <siddharthvipul> where are the credentials for other things? like official twitter account? I remember Justin opening a ticket in Infrastructure to ask that.. maybe this can be stored in the same keystore?
17:57:22 * jwf waves
17:57:36 <sumantro> hey jwf
17:57:39 <jwf> CPE or Fedora Infra owns the encrypted credentials
17:57:45 <jwf> It is in ansible-private, I think
17:58:11 <jwf> Then, some people have manually been given the password. I requested it for @fedoracommunity but I store that in my own password manager
17:58:15 <riecatnor> Some are with OSPO as well, for example our youtube channel
17:58:22 <jwf> ^ that too
17:58:34 <riecatnor> so siddharthvipul everywhere and anywhere lol
17:58:43 <siddharthvipul> we can ask this in Infrastructure meeting tomorrow if they are willing to store this as well
17:59:01 <jwf> My only preference is to keep like things together so we can find them in one place whenever we do need them
17:59:11 <riecatnor> siddharthvipul, please do
17:59:22 <jwf> siddharthvipul: +1, that would be nice
17:59:44 <sumantro> siddharthvipul++
17:59:44 <zodbot> sumantro: Karma for siddharthvipul1 changed to 20 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:59:54 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> +1
18:00:07 <misc> for the record, OSPO has a encrypted store (internal only)
18:00:11 <siddharthvipul> I can ask it and comment on the ticket tomorrow
18:00:19 <misc> (and we are looking if bitwarden is better)
18:00:51 <riecatnor> misc good to know. if CPE doesn't want to store these credentials, would ospo?
18:01:05 <riecatnor> it is for Neuro Fedora twitter account
18:01:14 <misc> riecatnor: yeah, I just think it is internal only right now
18:01:23 <riecatnor> understood.
18:01:30 <misc> (because we use a python2 old unmaintaned django app *cough*)
18:01:36 <riecatnor> lol
18:01:40 <siddharthvipul> riecatnor: umm, are we sure it's CPE? I was thinking it's Infrastructure group.. but it can be anywhere I guess
18:01:45 <riecatnor> such a familiar story
18:01:51 <siddharthvipul> misc: RHEL folks made a decision, can't complain :P
18:02:02 <riecatnor> ohhh, interesting, maybe i think of them the same way and they arent
18:02:20 <misc> but we can definitely help
18:02:33 <riecatnor> The thing is, I *also* need them.
18:02:44 <riecatnor> In case I need to remove something within minutes if needed
18:03:03 <riecatnor> I have access to most of our other accounts as well. Sending it to me first is good
18:03:27 <riecatnor> #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/210
18:03:56 <siddharthvipul> this is done and dusted. We can safely close this
18:03:58 <siddharthvipul> IMO
18:04:26 <riecatnor> we did al 4 pieces?
18:04:28 <riecatnor> all*
18:04:50 <siddharthvipul> oh oh, apologies.. jumped too soon
18:04:56 <riecatnor> docs is down?
18:05:03 <siddharthvipul> yeah, docs is down
18:05:08 <riecatnor> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare/
18:05:10 <pbokoc> oh what the hell
18:05:12 <riecatnor> lol. ok.
18:05:22 <sumantro> pbokoc, since sometime
18:05:26 <siddharthvipul> pbokoc: I was coming with the hammer but this meeting got me XD
18:05:51 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> Down
18:06:30 <pbokoc> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/ just shows the old docs frontpage, it's like the site reverted to about 3-4 years ago
18:06:36 <riecatnor> so, looks like we did 1 out of 4 of the tasks.
18:06:49 <riecatnor> sumantro, does the other stuff you are doing for this overlap?
18:06:51 <x3mboy> Sorry, I'm back
18:06:58 <x3mboy> I was in a call
18:07:05 <riecatnor> x3mboy, no worries :D welcome back
18:07:19 <siddharthvipul> riecatnor: I see 3 ready for PR, I have the outreachy doc, sumantro worked on creating new entry for seat
18:07:50 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> Cool
18:08:16 <siddharthvipul> "Document any tasks related to summer coding, such as the intro interviews/posts." if this is for policy, we can expand 215 and seat can contact mentors to remind them
18:08:25 <siddharthvipul> about the blogs*
18:08:56 <riecatnor> siddharthvipul, outreachy doc to add to summer coding page?
18:09:06 <sumantro> riecatnor, yep, I will be taking care of this. but i would like to take a step back and ask jwf , about how he feels .. since he was the one who envisioned these and opened the ticket
18:09:14 <riecatnor> yeah, definitely!
18:09:18 <siddharthvipul> that's ready, I was waiting for the website outreachy info which we got in start of the meeting
18:09:21 <riecatnor> jwf we are happy to hear your thoughts :)
18:09:24 <siddharthvipul> riecatnor^
18:09:28 <riecatnor> gotcha
18:09:30 <jwf> Looking here? https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/210
18:09:38 <riecatnor> jwf yep
18:10:06 <jwf> I liked the responsibilities outlined here: https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/215
18:10:26 <jwf> My only feedback right now is to focus on long-term sustainability by clearly documenting how this seat is collected
18:10:30 <jwf> * selected
18:10:34 <jwf> Not collected…
18:11:24 <riecatnor> jwf, makes sense. You mentioned you came up with something for Commops
18:11:25 <jwf> It will be important to keep a documented pathway / ramp for bringing new folks in so we don't find ourselves in stalemate like we did with Ambassador reps
18:11:27 <riecatnor> is that documented anywhere?
18:11:29 <siddharthvipul> jwf: yes! that's important (for all seats)
18:11:54 <jwf> riecatnor: Oh heh, calling me out :D I think it was written down, somewhere. I can dig for a URL but not be able to fish it out
18:12:05 <jwf> Basically, it was a ticket-based nomination process loosely associated to the release cycles
18:12:27 <jwf> But I think bt0 is better equipped to rep the CommOps seat perspective :) I am not the one currently in the seat
18:12:30 <sumantro> jwf, yes thats a bigger ask which needs answering! and i hope in a few days after expanding the doc a bit more, we can revisit and see how it looks for everyone of us.
18:12:48 <jwf> * might not be able to fish it out *right now*
18:13:01 * jwf nods
18:13:06 <siddharthvipul> jwf: since we are talking mentored-project, I don't think per release would work (It definitely can but would be difficult) you see, release cycles are often in between the coding programs
18:13:13 <jwf> Anyways, the basic responsibilities and outlines documented so far look right to me :)
18:13:39 <jwf> siddharthvipul: I don't think combining to release cycles is a good default pick for Mindshare-related teams
18:13:48 <siddharthvipul> could be 2 cycles? (since there are atleast 5 programs all over the year)
18:13:48 <riecatnor> Just thinking out loud-- something like mentored projects has had some of the same and only organizers for eyars
18:14:01 <jwf> It does for engineering / dev, but the people-oriented work of Mindshare Teams does not tie as cleanly to Fedora releases
18:14:17 <siddharthvipul> jwf: right! that's what I am saying, release cycles won't work for this
18:14:33 <jwf> Cool, then we are both on the same page :)
18:14:40 <jwf> riecatnor: That is true
18:14:53 <riecatnor> just a thought in general-- what if we had a 6 month check in for mindshare committee folks
18:15:07 <riecatnor> like - do you feel productive, healthy here, etc, would you like to move on
18:15:35 <riecatnor> because some people have been here some time
18:15:46 <riecatnor> idk, random passing thought. and it's something we have talked on plenty
18:15:53 <riecatnor> back to #210 :P
18:16:09 <jwf> riecatnor: +1, with some explicit thinking on how to approach it so it doesn't feel like it is maintaining a roster of names – but more like a person-to-person conversation
18:16:28 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> Sounds better
18:16:28 <riecatnor> Yes, maybe i would do personal meetings.
18:16:35 <jwf> I am thinking of the reactions to retiring Ambassadors
18:16:38 <riecatnor> like 15 minute check ins
18:17:19 * jwf gives thumbs-up
18:17:56 <siddharthvipul> my approach might definitely look harsh, but I do think if someone gets busy or is unable to give time.. they should open up the path for a successor who is willing and can benefit both themselves and the program
18:18:16 <riecatnor> siddharthvipul, there is a ticket on mindshare
18:18:21 <riecatnor> put your thoughts there :P
18:18:22 <siddharthvipul> it goes other way too, if they feel mindshare is not something they are enjoying, they shouldn't be stuck
18:18:28 <x3mboy> Sorry, I'm back again
18:18:32 <x3mboy> Hell of a day at work
18:18:35 <riecatnor> no worries!
18:18:40 <x3mboy> Are we talking about Ambys?
18:18:58 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> Not yet
18:19:11 <riecatnor> so for #210 - sumantro and siddharthvipul are on those tasks. I will leave the ticket open and we can check in next week unless its done before then
18:19:37 <x3mboy> 210, 215 and 216 are related
18:19:38 <riecatnor> siddharthvipul, sent you the link
18:19:55 <siddharthvipul> got it, thank you ^-^
18:20:30 <jwf> Sometimes people need explicit permission/acceptance that is okay to pass on responsibilities. Always leaving a clear and open exit pathway is helpful to avoid burnout
18:20:42 <riecatnor> so.. there are more tickets. plenty more topics. we have ten minutes left.
18:20:56 <riecatnor> I am going to move to
18:20:57 <riecatnor> #openfloor
18:21:05 <x3mboy> !
18:21:06 <sumantro> riecatnor,  copied
18:21:11 <x3mboy> I have 2 things, I think
18:21:26 <riecatnor> #topic open floor :P
18:21:37 <riecatnor> ok, x3mboy go ahead
18:21:47 <x3mboy> I don't know if it was discussed at the beggining because I missed half of them eeting
18:21:49 <riecatnor> and jwf, agreed on your point
18:21:51 <x3mboy> the meeting*
18:22:00 <x3mboy> But we need to discuss ambassadors issues
18:22:31 <x3mboy> https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145
18:22:38 <x3mboy> #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145
18:22:40 <riecatnor> we haven't quite gotten there, was there another topic as well?
18:23:04 <x3mboy> Oh no. Sorry, it was my bad
18:23:09 <x3mboy> Telegram was already discussed
18:23:23 <x3mboy> I had those 2 in my taskwarrior about mindshare
18:23:26 <riecatnor> ok, I think a discussion on amabassadors makes sense.
18:23:34 <riecatnor> #topic ambassador program
18:24:13 <x3mboy> I was reading and listening to our past and the historical process to create the Mindshare Committee
18:24:34 <riecatnor> So, I know we all were watching the threads with popcorn lol. But I didn't let it get to me. Peoples identities are strongly tied to the ambassador program and I dont think we have to "get rid of it"
18:24:51 <nb> So
18:24:51 <riecatnor> I think we need to change the definition and help inspire people to adopt the new identity
18:24:59 <nb> I have not intentionally not replied to the threads
18:25:04 <nb> I've been trying to collect my thoughts
18:25:10 <riecatnor> nb, would love to hear them
18:25:21 <x3mboy> nb, I would love to hear it
18:25:35 <nb> I think what a lot of you have said is correct
18:25:39 <nb> communication is by far the issue
18:25:54 <nb> a lot of the people i have heard from say they don't know how to ask for funding or swag anymore
18:26:09 <nb> and yes, there are a few people who just think RH is trying to take over and shut it all down
18:26:19 <nb> which is not true, but trying to show them the opposite is true is hard
18:26:21 <riecatnor> to me that sounds like they are unhappy they can't do it the old way. it is documented on mindshare how to do those things
18:26:42 <nb> and, honestly, I have lost some of my enthusiasm because of the way the Council handled SELF last year
18:26:55 <riecatnor> nb, I am unaware of that situation :/
18:27:10 <nb> riecatnor, council pulled our sponsorship of an event because of politics
18:27:17 <x3mboy> Sorry, what SELF is in this context?
18:27:23 <nb> x3mboy, southeast linuxfest
18:27:24 <riecatnor> I see.
18:27:30 <x3mboy> Ok
18:27:41 <nb> they didn't like the personal opinions of a keynote speaker at that event
18:27:52 <nb> which, i have to say, i don't like what he has posted on his blog either
18:27:58 <sumantro> nb i remember that one
18:27:59 <nb> but i don't see that as a reason to pull out of the event
18:28:14 <nb> and, they never consulted with mindshare, nor the people planning our presence at that event
18:28:42 <nb> that situation cost us most of the remaining ambassadors in NA.  Including the person who used to be our cardholder and treasurer for NA
18:29:13 <x3mboy> nb, Is that related to https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/83
18:29:28 <nb> x3mboy, exactly
18:30:08 <x3mboy> Ok, I think I'm mistaken, the ticket is closed as "Sponsorship paid"
18:30:28 <nb> x3mboy, it was paid, but then the council dictated that we were not allowed to have a table at that event
18:30:39 <x3mboy> Can you point me there?
18:30:47 <nb> x3mboy, that's the problem, it was all in private
18:31:01 <nb> no transparency, we were just informed by email after the decision was made
18:31:13 <x3mboy> I think is a problem that Council dictate that over a ticket we approve, without asking
18:31:15 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> Puff, they give a reason
18:31:23 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> ?
18:31:34 <nb> x3mboy, I agree
18:31:50 <nb> @bt0dotninja someone started drama because esr was a keynote at that event
18:32:00 <riecatnor> nb, that sounds pretty disheartening. I am sorry that went down that way.
18:32:02 <nb> and yes, esr has posted some unkind things about particular groups of people on his blog
18:32:12 <nb> which i totally don't agree with
18:32:20 <nb> but i don't think that means that we should not attend the event
18:32:40 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> :(
18:33:31 <siddharthvipul> for some reason I think there must be some bigger reason as well.. I am not sure how many ambassador felt bad because of this, or why this would reflect bad on Red Hat, because council elections are open for all cla+1 to vote
18:33:51 <siddharthvipul> I didn't even know about this unfortunately
18:33:59 <nb> siddharthvipul, yeah, it was all done in secret
18:34:09 <nb> and even mindshare was not involved
18:34:10 <riecatnor> I see this story as an illustration of being yet another blow to ambassadors, and I think it should be recognized that it sucked
18:34:11 <siddharthvipul> secret == council?
18:34:16 <nb> siddharthvipul, yes
18:34:36 <riecatnor> I dont see a point to trying to understand why now
18:34:45 <nb> riecatnor, i agree
18:35:00 <x3mboy> riecatnor, I agree and disagree
18:35:21 <x3mboy> I mean past is past, and it sucks that happende like that
18:35:31 <x3mboy> But it serves as precedent
18:35:59 <misc> so you disagree with your own disagreement by agreeing ?
18:36:02 <x3mboy> If the council is going to overrule our decisions, they can actually take the committee and do the job
18:36:15 <x3mboy> They are more than welcome to try
18:36:20 <nb> x3mboy, they said they were the people to decide because they considered it a CoC thing
18:36:25 <nb> or somesuch
18:36:59 <x3mboy> nb, I know, I remember de case now
18:37:48 <riecatnor> x3mboy, I understand the sentiment, I do think its a bit extreme
18:37:51 <riecatnor> we are here to work together
18:37:59 <sumantro> x3mboy, I feel that, we should help council understand, why it is important for us to be acting more independent and most importantly together
18:38:41 <sumantro> but i do understand the feeling behind that event
18:38:52 <x3mboy> riecatnor, sumantro sure, but work together mean that if they have concerns about something, they can come and ask
18:39:03 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> Yes
18:39:10 <sumantro> x3mboy, yes
18:39:18 <x3mboy> Or at least to say: Hey! We need to rethink this event, because of X or Y
18:39:18 <riecatnor> the reason I dont want to worry about the point is bc the topic is ambassadors
18:39:18 <siddharthvipul> x3mboy: yeah but if there was really a bigger CoC issue, waiting on a long thread for +1s can also be troublesome
18:39:37 <siddharthvipul> I am not saying it was the right thing to do, communication could definitely be better
18:39:39 <riecatnor> if there is a concern like this -> do we want to open a council ticket? please vote now
18:39:44 <riecatnor> and we will drop it.
18:39:48 <x3mboy> siddharthvipul, Ok, so let's them do the job
18:39:59 <x3mboy> And they can see if each event have CoC Concerns
18:40:42 <riecatnor> x3mboy, I don't think those comments are productive/
18:41:13 <siddharthvipul> x3mboy: that's not fair, council is also made with people/volunteers (except a couple) doing their best. I agree with better communication but I am just saying there *could* be a good reason to those. I am probably not making a lot of productive statements here so I will stop
18:41:14 * nb has kinda had thoughts similar to x3mboy
18:41:22 <x3mboy> But it's how it feels
18:41:51 <riecatnor> there is plenty we do without any involvement
18:41:54 <riecatnor> from the counci
18:42:01 <riecatnor> is all of that somehow discredited?
18:42:02 <x3mboy> We are not important enough to at least be notified that they are taking actions against a decision we made
18:42:30 <riecatnor> So, I think we need to close the meeting. THere is too much focus on this one event.
18:42:51 <riecatnor> Suffice to say, I am working up a longer version of the proposal I put on 14
18:42:52 <riecatnor> 145
18:42:57 <riecatnor> I plan to open it on a new ticket
18:43:02 <x3mboy> I don't think to close the meeting now is ok
18:43:13 <riecatnor> then can we stay on topic?
18:43:30 <riecatnor> we are examining ambassadors, not the relationship between mindshare and council.
18:43:38 <x3mboy> I honestly think that we should go deep in this kind of things
18:43:59 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> We need to trust the council
18:44:00 <x3mboy> Because stuff like that are what Ambassadors are getting angry
18:44:43 <riecatnor> I think my point is we see plenty of issues.. what is the path forward
18:44:43 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> They decide things as the same fashion as us
18:45:02 <riecatnor> Like yes we can disseminate each incident
18:45:08 <riecatnor> but that is a waste of time imo
18:45:27 <riecatnor> we see the general sentiment, we see the issues
18:45:30 <riecatnor> time to focus on a plan
18:45:44 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> Ok, we need to take actions
18:45:53 <riecatnor> Plan, then action.
18:46:06 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> Ok, plan
18:46:06 <riecatnor> I am working on a plan, it will be up before the next meeting
18:46:16 <riecatnor> it is based off what I wrote on 145
18:46:59 <siddharthvipul> riecatnor: we should wait for your plan and discuss that in next meeting (unless someone has some ideas on moving forward)
18:47:01 <sumantro> riecatnor, :)
18:47:28 <x3mboy> I'm just angry right now
18:47:30 <nb> yeah, lets wait for riecatnor's plan
18:47:35 <riecatnor> x3mboy, I understand
18:47:42 <nb> x3mboy, yeah, i've been angry and disappointed for about a year now.
18:47:47 <riecatnor> it's tough
18:47:48 <x3mboy> So, close and let's see what happens next
18:48:15 <siddharthvipul> x3mboy, nb, :( so sorry you feel that way
18:48:46 <x3mboy> It's just super frustrating to try to defend something, and this kind of things are thrown at your face, and how you defend from that?
18:48:56 <x3mboy> Mindshare wasn't notify
18:49:00 <riecatnor> I am hopeful for the future
18:49:09 <x3mboy> So, is that an excuse to say to ambassadors?
18:49:14 <x3mboy> Of course not
18:49:21 <siddharthvipul> x3mboy: let's discuss that with council and make sure it's taken care of future
18:49:27 <siddharthvipul> in a ticket*
18:49:41 <sumantro> x3mboy, nb , sorry that you feel that way :(
18:49:55 <riecatnor> siddharthvipul, to me it seems a one time case. I think there are some things we most likely dont know about that situation as it was done in private.
18:50:15 <riecatnor> like how often does council have a reason to interfere with mindshare?
18:50:21 <riecatnor> Not as far as I have been here
18:50:21 <siddharthvipul> riecatnor: yes! I think that too.. I also think there must be a valid reason
18:51:00 <nb> I don't believe they had a reason to interfere with mindshare in that case either
18:51:01 <x3mboy> I'm not going to say anything that I can regret in the future
18:51:12 <nb> but this discussion is going nowhere
18:51:24 <riecatnor> let's look to the proposal next week
18:51:45 <x3mboy> Ok
18:51:56 <riecatnor> thank you all for participating and giving your thoughts
18:51:56 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> +1
18:51:59 <siddharthvipul> communication is a difficult thing and one shortage can cause some fires, we recently noticed that with CPE.. let's think of a solution to enforce good way to communicate
18:52:00 <riecatnor> as always, much appreciated
18:52:14 <riecatnor> lol siddharthvipul are you trying to make this meeting 3 more hours?
18:52:23 <sumantro> riecatnor, thanks for hosting
18:52:32 <siddharthvipul> riecatnor: oh right! one more thing.. about the git forge XD
18:52:35 * siddharthvipul runs
18:52:37 <riecatnor> LOL
18:52:39 <riecatnor> #endmeeting