mindshare
MINUTES
17:30:51 <bexelbie> #startmeeting Mindshare
17:30:51 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb  6 17:30:51 2019 UTC.
17:30:51 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:30:51 <zodbot> The chair is bexelbie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:30:51 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:30:51 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'mindshare'
17:30:51 <bexelbie> #chair jsmith sumantrom robyduck nb x3mboy bt0dotninja mleonova bex bexelbie bt0
17:30:51 <bexelbie> #topic Roll Call
17:30:51 <bexelbie> .hello bex
17:30:51 <zodbot> Current chairs: bex bexelbie bt0 bt0dotninja jsmith mleonova nb robyduck sumantrom x3mboy
17:30:52 <zodbot> bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' <bexelbie@redhat.com>
17:31:06 <bexelbie> @sumantro9 it is right now
17:31:10 <bexelbie> @sumantro93 it is right now
17:31:18 <jsmith> .hello2
17:31:19 <zodbot> jsmith: jsmith 'Jared Smith' <jsmith.fedora@gmail.com>
17:31:29 <tg-fedmindshare> <sumantro93> Joining in a min!
17:32:21 <tg-fedmindshare> <bt0dotninja> bt0dotninja is here too
17:32:46 <bexelbie> #topic Agenda
17:32:46 <bexelbie> Proposed: Tickets: 82, 88, 89 and then Open Floor
17:32:46 <bexelbie> Any suggested additions or modifications?
17:33:02 <jsmith> Sounds good to me
17:33:19 <tg-fedmindshare> <bt0dotninja> For me too
17:33:26 <tg-fedmindshare> <sumantro93> Fine for me too
17:33:51 <bexelbie> #topic #82 Requesting budget for SCaLE17x
17:33:52 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/82
17:34:18 <bexelbie> This feels blocked and I am not sure why
17:34:27 <bexelbie> while I would appreciate a writeup more like #83 - I am curious what others think
17:34:49 <jsmith> I agree... we need more details
17:35:39 <bexelbie> @bt0dotninja @sumantro93 ?
17:36:20 * sumantro looks
17:36:29 <tg-fedmindshare> <bt0dotninja> Exactly, we need more info
17:36:36 * bexelbie added a note with what jsmith said
17:37:03 <jsmith> In fact, we're a month away and still don't have details -- I'd personally lean towards even voting -1 unless they provide more details quickly, and reserve the right to change my vote
17:37:06 <sumantro> needs more info for #82
17:37:42 <bexelbie> ok, lets see if they can help us here.  I am in favor of giving them some leeway as we seem to have dropped the ball on this one - I am not sure how it has gotten forgotten - we have been donig great
17:37:44 <bexelbie> #topic #88 Funding Request: oSC 2019
17:37:45 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/88
17:37:47 <x3mboy> .hello2
17:37:48 <zodbot> x3mboy: x3mboy 'Eduard Lucena' <eduardlucena@gmail.com>
17:38:16 <bexelbie> this has been open for long enough that I think with these +1s alone it is fine
17:38:30 <bexelbie> jsmith, you're the only one who hasn't voted
17:38:33 <bexelbie> in ticket I mean
17:38:48 <bexelbie> This will come from next FY, except maybe the stickers
17:38:57 <jsmith> Gimme one second to review, please
17:39:02 <bexelbie> absolutely
17:39:04 <sumantro> #88 looks sorted to me
17:39:14 <x3mboy> I think our policy indicates that this should be approved, am I right?
17:39:36 <bexelbie> x3mboy, I think our policy ambigious on these amounts - something we should fix
17:39:54 <jsmith> +1 from me, noted on the ticket
17:40:11 <bexelbie> cool - I suggest digress into policy
17:40:21 <sumantro> x3mboy, for $100 yes, above that its very grey, we should fix it soon
17:40:22 <bexelbie> how about for tickets under $1000 we set up a policy and end the ambiguity?
17:40:36 <sumantro> yes bexelbie  that will be good
17:40:47 <x3mboy> bexelbie, that sounds right
17:41:14 <bexelbie> I suggest that tickets under $1000 require 3 +1s, no -1s and 11 days open
17:41:18 <bexelbie> WDYT?
17:41:26 <bexelbie> 11 days was to ensure it passes through at least one meeting
17:41:30 <bexelbie> and can't be destroyed by holidays
17:41:40 <bexelbie> 10 was too round :P
17:41:55 <bexelbie> if you all like this, I'll open a ticket to capture +1s in
17:42:06 <sumantro> sounds alright to me :P
17:42:47 <x3mboy> +1 to bexelbie proposal
17:42:52 <bexelbie> #action bex to open a policy setting ticket and ping everyone to vote in ticket.
17:43:27 <sumantro> can i draft it into the advocates policy once everyone votes ? :P
17:43:32 <bexelbie> ok, I'll open the policy ticket and I'll note this is approved when we hit 11 days unless all active members have already voted (which may now be the case)
17:43:39 <bexelbie> sumantro, it should be a separate policy, but yes
17:43:50 <sumantro> bexelbie, sure!
17:43:54 <bexelbie> #topic #89 Funding request: Fedora<3.NET swa
17:43:55 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/89
17:44:24 <bexelbie> My primary concern with this ticket is spending this much money on HS students who aren't our normal target at all - and we do have other uses, afaik for that $350
17:44:31 <bexelbie> I respect that shirts are expensive in small batches though
17:46:21 <x3mboy> I think it's ok. 10 is not too much and catch people at young age would be amazing
17:46:46 <bexelbie> but there is no follow up planned as far as I can tell - if we had an edu concept it'd be easier for me
17:46:49 <bexelbie> I am +0 right now
17:46:56 <bexelbie> my +1 may not be needed though
17:47:11 <x3mboy> The edu concept is still blocked on our side
17:47:13 <x3mboy> xD
17:47:29 <x3mboy> We need to move on high topics, beyond tickets
17:47:38 <x3mboy> We have several topics blocked
17:48:03 <bexelbie> right now there isn't a champion for an edu program, afaik
17:48:05 <x3mboy> That people expect that Mindshare could address better than FAmSCo
17:48:11 <bexelbie> but lets get back to this ticket first
17:48:25 <bexelbie> then talk edu program in open floor, ok?
17:48:36 <sumantro> okay
17:48:41 <x3mboy> Sure. Well we need to ping rhea about it
17:48:42 <tg-fedmindshare> <bt0dotninja> +1
17:48:43 <bexelbie> for this ticket, if there are no other comments, lets see if we can get ticket votes so we can land this charge in this FY
17:48:45 <x3mboy> That can be hard
17:49:06 <bexelbie> x3mboy, what do we need from her - put it in the ticket - she should be seeing those emails
17:49:15 <x3mboy> Ok
17:50:08 <bexelbie> any more comments on this ticket?  If not, please vote in ticket - I'll try to rush the approval if we all cast a vote so we can get this done this year
17:50:25 <bexelbie> #topic Open Floor
17:50:27 <bexelbie> x3mboy, you're up
17:50:47 <jsmith> Sorry for the latency
17:51:01 <jsmith> On #89, I can make t-shirts for cheaper than that
17:51:08 <x3mboy> Ticket commented
17:51:54 <bexelbie> jsmith, no worries - please comment on the ticket.  I can also work with her on vendors as I don't know how she is making her vendor selection and we may well be able to do better
17:52:13 <jsmith> Done
17:52:40 <sumantro> commented on #89
17:52:51 <x3mboy> Ok, if I'm not wrong we have at least 2 blocked tickets, 5 needs feedback and several more that need more work
17:53:17 <bexelbie> at least
17:53:31 <x3mboy> Regarding students, we have the FOSS student pack ticket
17:53:34 <x3mboy> https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/16
17:53:58 <bexelbie> I think the challenge is that we are not an infinite supply of labor.  The big things we have gotten done have been because someone has championed it.  Things like #16 are a "we need generic help to solve a problem that has no champion" and we don't do well resourcing that
17:54:02 <x3mboy> But no progress have been made
17:54:26 <bexelbie> that ticket ends "Also we are asking for more direction on how to drive and focus the efforts to put this out.
17:54:27 <bexelbie> "
17:54:36 <bexelbie> what more is needed - what has been done? what is blocked?
17:54:39 <bexelbie> the submitter doesn't say
17:54:46 <bexelbie> they seem to want us to magically cause their idea to come to be
17:54:59 <bexelbie> in a sense the champion is the "showing up with code" in my opinion
17:55:16 <bexelbie> x3mboy, I just realized you submitted that ticket - so sorry to refer to you in the third person above
17:55:23 <x3mboy> bexelbie, sure, I agree on that. But how can we focus work to move on.
17:55:38 <bexelbie> what is the next actionable item for that ticket?
17:55:48 <bexelbie> right now it is a generic request for guidance
17:55:58 <bexelbie> Did you try to talk to those groups and if so, what did that say?
17:56:15 <x3mboy> bexelbie, yes. And all of them ask for directions too
17:56:17 <x3mboy> :(
17:56:29 <bexelbie> what did they need direction on?
17:57:06 <sumantro> x3mboy lets take one week and make this headed someway ... say what?
17:57:07 <x3mboy> But my point is that we need a better way to deal with those topic. For example, with #16 I can draft a better thing by infiltrating meeting (that's what I do best)
17:57:14 <x3mboy> But the others?
17:57:31 <bexelbie> for each one we need to figure out an actionable item
17:57:40 <bexelbie> a few are blocked on our FAMSCo folks
17:57:45 <x3mboy> e.g. #3
17:58:25 <bexelbie> I don't see how #3 is not a marketing ticket or a Marketing + Edition WG ticket
17:58:49 <x3mboy> FAmSCo or FAmA?
17:58:49 <bexelbie> I don't think Mindshare is an unlimited supply of people-power to get this done
17:59:00 <bexelbie> FAmA in my previous response - sorry about that
18:00:12 <bexelbie> I think #3 is open specifically because we can't commit to getting 1-2 feature profiles written.  we don't even seem to have had these since F18
18:00:13 <x3mboy> Yeah the problem with #3 is not me (marketing) not taking the hit, it's that we need to create a profiles/targets list
18:00:50 <bexelbie> I don't think Mindshare can do that - only the Editions WGs know what they are shipping
18:00:59 <bexelbie> they don't come to Mindshare for product definitions they define the products
18:01:04 <x3mboy> And there had been a lot of discussion about what should be the targets
18:01:10 <bexelbie> look at how hard docs struggles to get Relese Notes
18:01:22 <x3mboy> Yeah
18:01:30 <bt0> so true
18:01:38 <bexelbie> Based on the last council hack, I think the editions WGs need to tell us what their targets are and then we run with that
18:01:43 <bexelbie> us creating them doesn't make them true
18:01:47 <x3mboy> Well, we need to improve our work beyond the funding tickets, that's my message here
18:01:54 <bexelbie> if we go to the Editions and they say "we have no targets" that is a council issue
18:02:10 <bexelbie> x3mboy, I agree - but the examples you site don't seem to be workable
18:02:22 <bexelbie> the blocked ambassador stuff is our "wheelhouse" and needs to be pushed forward
18:02:30 <bexelbie> I am 100% in agreement with you there
18:02:42 <jsmith> Agreed
18:02:45 <bexelbie> but us defining feature profiles for the Editions feels like not our work - and work we on't do well
18:03:27 <bexelbie> 68 and 35 are the grey area ones for me (just examples)
18:03:38 <bexelbie> and 68 is blocked on amby definitions
18:03:48 <bexelbie> and 35 needs to be thought through, get a champino and a next action
18:03:57 <bexelbie> And don't forget, we can't even get all our members to the meetings
18:04:23 <bexelbie> It seems we have a new one which is to try to get some of our absent members helped to find replacements so we can unblock the tasks they are cookie-licking
18:04:31 <bexelbie> and I know everyone has a $dayjob and is busy - it isn't like that
18:04:37 <bexelbie> but we do need active folks
18:05:21 <x3mboy> Sure,  agree with tha
18:05:39 <bexelbie> On my large list of to-do items is to go through and try to figure out an action for all of these - but I am also just one person
18:05:46 <bt0> +1
18:05:49 <bexelbie> and I have 4 more hours of Fedora Finance (at least) just to do today
18:05:49 <sumantro> i second bex on this
18:06:25 <bexelbie> x3mboy, I feel your frustration because I share it.  I just don't know how to resolve it any other way
18:06:29 <x3mboy> I can look at tickets on weekends, maybe 3 hour per week
18:06:49 <x3mboy> I can commit until I get the podcasts on again
18:07:15 <x3mboy> I need a new marketing champion, jwf stole bt0 from me
18:07:16 <bexelbie> so if I had to choose, and I know I am not being asked, I think I'd rather see podcasts restarted than a student pack right now
18:07:18 <x3mboy> xD
18:07:21 <bexelbie> one has demonstrated impact
18:07:22 <bt0> :P
18:07:36 <bexelbie> the other is an idea that duplicates other people and isn't clear how we continue onboarding from
18:08:11 <bexelbie> I feel like the student pack, continuing that example, is a great solution, to use the new language, and we should encourage those who want to make that happen to do it :)
18:08:40 <bexelbie> or feed these ideas to the desktop initiative that is being pushed around interns/students
18:08:44 <bexelbie> and don't try to build something wholly new
18:08:57 <x3mboy> +1 to that
18:09:21 <x3mboy> Making something from scratch where a lot had been done in others areas doesn't make sense
18:11:34 * jsmith has to run
18:12:07 <bexelbie> o/
18:12:17 <bexelbie> any other comments/discussion/open floor?
18:12:24 <x3mboy> eom
18:13:46 <bexelbie> x3mboy, I am happy to continue to work with you on ideas and solutions - I just am out of people-power to help with at the moment :(
18:14:01 <bexelbie> any other issues, otherwise I'll close in a minute
18:15:04 <x3mboy> Close it
18:15:18 <bexelbie> #endmeeting