17:00:07 <pboy> #startmeeting fedora-server
17:00:07 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Nov  1 17:00:07 2023 UTC.
17:00:07 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:00:07 <zodbot> The chair is pboy. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
17:00:07 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-server'
17:00:17 <pboy> #topic Welcome / roll call
17:00:26 <pboy> elcome to our Server WG IRC meeting today!
17:00:34 <pboy> Same procedure as every year“ We'll give a few minutes for folks to show up
17:00:43 <pboy> Please, everybody who is lurking, say either .hello2 or .hello <fasname>
17:01:06 <mowest> .hello2
17:01:07 <zodbot> mowest: mowest 'Steve Daley' <mowest@vivaldi.net>
17:01:16 <jwhimpel> .hello2
17:01:17 <pboy> Hi mowest!
17:01:17 <zodbot> jwhimpel: jwhimpel 'John Himpel' <john@jlhimpel.net>
17:01:23 <cooltshirtguy> .hello2
17:01:24 <zodbot> cooltshirtguy: cooltshirtguy 'Jason Beard' <jas_beard@hotmail.com>
17:01:47 <copperi> .hello2
17:01:49 <zodbot> copperi: copperi 'Jan Kuparinen' <copper_fin@hotmail.com>
17:02:02 <eseyman> .hello2 eseyman
17:02:03 <zodbot> eseyman: eseyman 'Emmanuel Seyman' <emmanuel@seyman.fr>
17:02:08 <eseyman> hi, folks
17:02:31 <pboy> Hi everybody!
17:03:00 <pboy> Everyone made it today to take the time change into account.
17:03:20 <pboy> If I remember correctly, the first time in years  :-)
17:04:41 <pboy> Just as a warning, today I'm a bit unprepared because the issues with go / no-go of f39 and the issues with our Server Edition
17:05:04 <pboy> But let's make the best of it and start with the agenda
17:05:13 <pboy> topic Agenda
17:05:20 <mowest> pboy, probably our main topic today anyway.
17:05:29 <pboy> indeed
17:05:30 <pboy> #info  Follow up actions
17:06:16 <pboy> #info  Fedora release 39 rc current state and how to continue
17:06:31 <pboy> #info  Package fail2ban orphaned
17:06:44 <pboy> #info ork Project: Using Ansible to install and configure Wildfly
17:06:58 <pboy> #info F39/40 Work Project: Fedora Server in a virtualized runtime environmen
17:07:11 <pboy> #info Open floor
17:07:24 <pboy> I hope Ididn't miss a topic.
17:07:32 <pboy> Anything else to add?
17:07:49 <mowest> That's plenty
17:08:03 <pboy> OK, lets start.
17:08:20 <pboy> #topic 1. Follow up actions
17:08:41 <pboy> Nothing from me here, besides  our permanent item.
17:09:03 <pboy> Does someone has a topic here?
17:09:04 <eseyman> there's enough there to keep us busy for an hour
17:09:16 <pboy> Yeah,
17:09:23 <pboy> Well, nest one
17:09:40 <pboy> #topic  Fedora release 39 rc current state and how to continue
17:10:08 <pboy> I wrote an E-Mail earlier today with the links to the bug reports.
17:10:23 <pboy> any question or idea?
17:10:31 <pboy> or do we need a reading break?
17:11:15 <mowest> Has the WG for Fedora IOT weighed in on these issues, since I believe they also target the RPi and other ARM boards.
17:11:59 <pboy> I suppose, they don't use LVM, but BTRFS. So they have no LVM issue, as far as I know
17:12:55 <mowest> But LVM isn't the only blocker, I thought there was a booting issue too that should impact them I would image.
17:12:59 <mowest> imagine
17:14:44 <mowest> Is Fedora-Server the only version of Fedora that fails to install and work on RPi and other ARM boards?
17:14:51 <pboy> I'm not sure, their was another boot issue with RPi, but that was resolved. At least in the discussion of the last 2 weeks it was not discussed.
17:15:44 <pboy> Yes, Fedora Server is the only Edition that uses LVM, so far as I know. Maybe some labs do, too. I don't know.
17:15:57 <jwhimpel> I'm assuming that RPi works fine on f38.  Is that correct?
17:16:41 <cooltshirtguy> laptop locked up.
17:16:42 <pboy> Yes., on F38 every supported SBC works fine. there is no issue I know about
17:17:42 <mowest> Does LVM make that much sense on an RPi that is installing to an SD card? Do we have a way to eliminate LVM from the ARM SBC (Single Board Computers), but not the Fedora-Server install as a whole?
17:18:35 <jwhimpel> In that case, I think we ought to opt out of G/A for F39 while we work out the issues.  We can either then punt to F40 or see if we can release a delayed F39 Server Edition.
17:18:40 <eseyman> I feel not resizing the install on first boot to use the entire SD card would be a regression from the user's perspective
17:19:05 <pboy> mowest: We wanted to make the SBC version as much like a standard server edition as possible. And those SBCs
17:19:31 <pboy> which are ingteresting for Server, don't use SD card but internal eMMC oder NVMe disks
17:19:46 <pboy> and NVMe up to 2 TB
17:20:40 <pboy> jwhimpel, yes, that's indeed one of the options I would prefer, too.
17:21:32 <pboy> The problem is, at least me can't work on the SBC disk generation locally
17:21:41 <pboy> You need  ARM hardware
17:21:59 <pboy> Does someone has ARM hardware at hand?
17:22:19 <mowest> I agree with jwhimpel that we should not hold up the whole release of F39 just so we can get LVM working on ARM SBC's. If the other versions of Fedora do install to ARM SBC's they can use those until we get a working Fedora-Server.
17:22:20 <cooltshirtguy> nothing beyond Pi's
17:22:51 <mowest> I have an RPi 4? Is that what you mean?
17:23:00 <eseyman> agree with mowest and jwhimpel
17:23:11 <pboy> Yeah, you need soemething more powerful
17:24:11 <pboy> You need something more powerful as an SBC for imagefactory to work.
17:24:27 <pboy> imagefactory is the tool to generate the disk images
17:24:56 <jwhimpel> I have a more powerful ARM SBC, but it isn't supported by Fedora.  It runs Ubuntu.  Don't know if that would help or not. It is a 4Gb machine.
17:25:27 <mowest> Only old x86 desktop computers in my homelab with the biggest one having 8GB of RAM, so I'm of no help :-)
17:26:00 <pboy> jwhimplel I don't know. I must support qemu and libvirt. image generation is done in a virtuall machine.
17:28:38 <jwhimpel> Must it run on ARM hardware?  Or is inside an ARM VM good enough?  I have a 16GB Intel i7 that could easily run qemu and libvirt.
17:29:40 <pboy> I think, it must not be ARM hardware, emulation should be OK. But I didn't try that until now.
17:30:07 <pboy> And  the next go / no-go meeting it tomorrow.
17:30:35 <cooltshirtguy> yes i have a pi4
17:31:04 <jwhimpel> We're not going to get anything resolved by then.  So I vote for punting (if Release Mgmt will allow).
17:31:15 <pboy> Until now we have as a kind of solution:
17:31:31 <pboy> proposed #agreed If the LVM issue can not be resolved for f39 release, Server WG would like to opt out and continue with F38 for SBCs. Either we can release a workable release later or try again with F40
17:32:26 <eseyman> that works for me
17:32:36 <mowest> Can something be added to the download section of the website encouraging installing Fedora on an RPi and other SBC's for F39?
17:32:56 <mowest> By using a different version than Fedora-Server?
17:33:28 <jwhimpel> mowest, Do you mean Fedora Workstation?
17:33:29 <cooltshirtguy> do we know if you can upgrade from F38 to F39 on sbc?
17:33:59 <pboy> coolshirtguy: good question, I don't know.
17:34:07 <pboy> But as I know thebug details
17:34:13 <pboy> that should be possible.
17:34:27 <pboy> using the dnf method, not the installation medium
17:34:43 <cooltshirtguy> that's what I was thinking, DNF
17:34:44 <mowest> jwhimpel, from earlier discussion it sounds like all of the other Fedora versions do install to an RPi and that Fedora-Server is the only one that fails, so encourage them to use Fedora on an RPi or SBC but just not Fedora-Server.
17:34:57 <eseyman> I don't see how the bug would prevent upgrading
17:35:26 <pboy> eseyman yes, dnd should work.
17:35:30 <pboy> dnf
17:35:57 <pboy> But we don't need an f39 installation media for that.
17:36:36 <pboy> So we would opt out of the installation media and suggest updating using dnf
17:36:40 <mowest> I agree with no F39 installation media for Fedora-Server.
17:36:59 <mowest> For SBC's anyway.
17:37:29 <eseyman> if it's possible to make a 39.1 image once the bugs are fixed, that should be done
17:38:21 <eseyman> but otherwise, I'm good with recommending F38 server or any F39 non-server image
17:38:58 <jwhimpel> It is a problem for only ARM SBC's or would it affect Intel SBC's as well?
17:39:22 <pboy> I don't know about delaying a specific installation medium.
17:39:52 <pboy> jwhimnpel: I thing just aarch. Intel can use the standard medium, as far as I know.
17:40:11 <pboy> But I'm not sure.
17:40:33 <pboy> The question is, does it have a standard BIOS? If yes, no problem
17:41:30 <pboy> So, a slightly modified proposal
17:41:42 <pboy> proposed #agreed If the LVM issue can not be resolved for f39 release, Server WG would like to opt out providing a f39 installation medium for aarch SBC, continue to distribute f38 and encourage to update using dnf.
17:42:20 <jwhimpel> +1
17:42:26 <mowest> +1
17:43:04 <pboy> eseyman?
17:43:26 <pboy> cooltshirtguy> ?
17:43:44 <eseyman> +1
17:44:03 <cooltshirtguy> +1
17:44:17 <pboy> OK, thanks then
17:44:31 <pboy> #agreed If the LVM issue can not be resolved for f39 release, Server WG would like to opt out providing a f39 installation medium for aarch SBC, continue to distribute f38 and encourage to update using dnf.
17:44:40 <pboy> 5,0,0
17:45:05 <pboy> Well, next topic?
17:45:31 <pboy> #topic Package fail2ban orphaned
17:45:58 <pboy> We use fail2ban as part of the post-installation options.
17:46:14 <pboy> The admin maintainer has orphaned the packabe.
17:46:16 <mowest> So is this part of every default install?
17:46:26 <pboy> Maybe, there are other maintainers.
17:46:55 <pboy> mowest: it is not installed by default, but a recommendation in the post-install task list.
17:47:36 <pboy> So, please, could someone take on the task to check the status and try to initiate  a solution if oissible.
17:47:43 <mowest> I would be in favor of dropping it, and encourage installation for crowdsec, which is what I use in my homelab or just drop it from the docs.
17:48:21 <eseyman> This package does not look orphaned...
17:48:53 <eseyman> that said, huge +1 for crowdsec which is fail2ban on steroids
17:49:14 <pboy> eseyman there was an announcement as a reaction to the Red Hat change in access of the sources
17:49:48 <pboy> OK then, let's have a look at crowdse
17:50:22 <pboy> Can someone take on the task to write the doku?  or to rewrite the current doku?
17:50:36 <eseyman> doku?
17:50:48 <pboy> Yeah, guide.
17:50:58 <mowest> I will try to look at the docs before the next meeting.
17:51:04 <pboy> It is the section in the post-installation guide
17:51:19 <pboy> mowest thanks!
17:51:56 <pboy> mowest thanks!S
17:52:28 <jwhimpel> I don't see crowdsec in the Fedora repositories.  Does it go by another name?
17:53:01 <pboy> Oh, that would be a problem it is is  not
17:53:51 <pboy> Can someone check?
17:54:44 <eseyman> last time I checked with them, crowdsec had their own third-party repos
17:55:26 <eseyman> okay, fail2ban has been picked by another maintainer so this is a non-issue
17:55:43 <pboy> eseyman thanks!
17:56:21 <pboy> So we can intoduce  crowdsec maybe as an alternative.
17:56:30 <pboy> next topic
17:56:46 <mowest> According to Crowdsec docs, for CentOS Stream you install a repo, then "dnf install crodsec"
17:56:55 <mowest> Yes, let's go on
17:56:58 <pboy> #topic Work Project: Using Ansible to install and configure Wildfly
17:57:21 <pboy> We have 3 mins left. So we can cisuss it just shjortly
17:57:41 <jwhimpel> I found how to deploy and app from either localhost or a remote host.  Slow progress is being made.
17:58:06 <pboy> jwhimpel  +1
17:58:09 <jwhimpel> s/and app/an app/
17:58:43 <pboy> did you already included systemd integration?
17:58:59 <jwhimpel> yes for startup and shutdown
17:59:25 <pboy> OK, did you use the copr repo or you own code?
17:59:37 <jwhimpel> it uses it's own log files instead of systemd-journal
18:00:08 <pboy> That good, I'm still struggeling with journalctl for complex issues
18:00:13 <jwhimpel> I install from wildfly source tar file and generate the necessary systemd service file.
18:00:34 <pboy> good, time is up.
18:00:42 <pboy> just shortly
18:00:54 <pboy> #topic Open Floor
18:01:01 <pboy> anything here?
18:01:32 <jwhimpel> I have a topic for next time, but I'll post it on the list in a few days.
18:01:44 <pboy> jwhimnpel -1
18:01:49 <pboy> jwhimnpel +1 !
18:02:17 <pboy> OK, bye bye then.
18:02:27 <pboy> have a good day / evening
18:02:29 <eseyman> bye, folks. See you in two weeks
18:02:38 <pboy> #endmeeting