17:00:03 <pboy> #startmeeting fedora-server
17:00:03 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Sep 20 17:00:03 2023 UTC.
17:00:03 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:00:03 <zodbot> The chair is pboy. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
17:00:03 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:03 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-server'
17:00:14 <pboy> #topic Welcome / roll call
17:00:14 <pboy> Welcome to our Server WG IRC meeting today!
17:00:25 <pboy> „Same procedure as every year“ We'll give a few minutes for folks to show up
17:00:25 <pboy> Please, everybody who is lurking, say either .hello2 or .hello <fasname>
17:00:36 <eseyman> .hello eseyman
17:00:37 <zodbot> eseyman: eseyman 'Emmanuel Seyman' <emmanuel@seyman.fr>
17:00:40 <mowest> .hello2
17:00:43 <zodbot> mowest: mowest 'Steve Daley' <mowest@vivaldi.net>
17:01:33 <pboy> A back welcome mowest!
17:01:45 <mowest> Happy to be here this morning.
17:01:52 <mowest> Well, afternoon now.
17:02:13 <pboy> Yeah, sometmes time goes by
17:03:17 <pboy> I have a " attack " on you  at Top 4. :-)
17:04:45 <pboy> Well., let's start with the agenda. jwhimpel told me, he hopes to be able to join us later
17:05:19 <pboy> #topic Agenda
17:05:32 <pboy> #info  Follow up actions
17:05:32 <pboy> #info  F40 Change proposal dropping sshd.socket file
17:05:32 <pboy> #info  Fedora release 39 beta first experience and how to continue
17:05:32 <pboy> #info  F39/40 Work Project: Fedora Server in a virtualized runtime environment
17:05:32 <pboy> #info  Work Project: Using Ansible to install and configure Wildfly
17:05:33 <pboy> #info  Open floor
17:05:41 <pboy> Any topic to add?
17:06:07 <eseyman> that's already a pretty big agenda...
17:06:19 <pboy> Yeah. Let's start
17:06:27 <pboy> #topic 1. Follow up actions
17:06:35 <pboy> Our running gag now:
17:06:44 <pboy> #action pboy will write a info about changing the timeout value and nirik will review – still work in progress
17:07:10 <pboy> There are still some other actions, scheduled for next meeting about our SBC project.
17:07:23 <pboy> Anything to add?
17:07:38 <pboy> OK, then
17:07:47 <pboy> #topic 2.  F40 Change proposal dropping sshd.socket file
17:08:01 <pboy> There is some ongoing discussion
17:08:11 <pboy> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/f40-change-proposal-drop-sshd-socket-self-contained/89604/1
17:08:20 <pboy> #link https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/29159
17:08:31 <pboy> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2025716#c0
17:08:58 <pboy> CoreOS / Timothée Ravier <siosm@fedoraproject.org> posted on devel, he is not / nolonger happy with it.
17:09:08 <pboy> See his post in change proposal discussion  and devel list
17:09:21 <eseyman> yes, this might be dropped
17:10:01 <pboy> Do we have a view on this?
17:10:54 <eseyman> not me
17:11:12 <jwhimpel> .hello2
17:11:13 <zodbot> jwhimpel: jwhimpel 'John Himpel' <john@jlhimpel.net>
17:11:14 <pboy> I have a slight priority not to remove it. It does not interfere and can be useful for some purposes.
17:11:40 <pboy> But I'm not very familiar with it technically.
17:11:45 <mowest> I do not have a view on this because I'm pretty sure I don't use this in a homelab situation.
17:12:02 <pboy> Yeah, probably not.
17:12:19 <pboy> And at least not aware, that we use it on our servers.
17:12:49 <pboy> What shall we do?
17:13:09 <mowest> If we in the server WG are not using it, perhaps it is wise to encourage the change to go through since it helps against DoS attacks.
17:13:43 <pboy> That's an argument, indeed.
17:14:05 <jwhimpel> I thought the Systemd folks were thinking of making a change to the configuration  script to give the same new functionality.
17:14:41 <jwhimpel> I also thought I saw where the change to systemd has been made and asking the change submitter to test.
17:15:01 <pboy> Yes, I read that, too. But not sure if I understood everything.
17:15:41 <pboy> jwhimpel obviously you know much much more than me. Can you keep an eye on it?
17:16:04 <jwhimpel> Since the systemd folks and the openSSH folks are now working together on this issue, let's just let them take the lead.  I can follow this issue.
17:16:28 <pboy> Thanks, And maybe make a statement on behalf of server WG?
17:16:55 <pboy> It would be advantages, if we join the discussion, at least a bit.
17:17:53 <pboy> Perfectly somethin like systemd folks and the openSSH folks are now working together on this issue, let's just wait what is the outome, or so?
17:18:38 <jwhimpel> Is there a ticket or issue open for this?  If so, I will comment.
17:19:31 <pboy> There should be a change ticket And there is a thread on discussion, maybe tag #change or so. And of course, there is a thread on mailing list.
17:19:50 <pboy> The discussion site is often a bit teious.
17:19:59 <pboy> Thanks anyway
17:20:01 <jwhimpel> I'll find the change ticket and comment there.
17:20:55 <pboy> #action jwhimpel will keep an eye on behalf of Server WG on the "Change proposal dropping sshd.socket file" discussion.
17:21:09 <pboy> #topic 3. Fedora release 39 beta first experience and how to continue
17:21:20 <pboy> Beta is out.
17:21:29 <pboy> #link https://fedoramagazine.org/announcing-fedora-39-beta/
17:21:29 <pboy> #link https://fedoraproject.org/server/download/ (Switch show beta on)
17:21:42 <pboy> Did anyone already test it?
17:22:36 <pboy> Ob viously not.
17:22:38 <mowest> No I have not. :( trying to fix a network card issue in backup server so not a great time to test new version.
17:22:42 <eseyman> I'll be testing it this weekend
17:22:54 <pboy> eseyman +1
17:23:02 <pboy> eseyman 1+
17:23:32 <pboy> mattdm wrote on Matrix or discussion:
17:23:40 <pboy> Hey all. Last check -- any particular things I should point people to for testing (or excitement) in the magazine announcement?
17:24:07 <pboy> Do we have something for that? I think it is about Beta, not the release.
17:24:22 <pboy> For release it will be our SBC story
17:24:34 <pboy> I think.
17:25:46 <pboy> Obviously no idea. I'll drop a note to him.
17:25:58 <pboy> Another topic:
17:26:44 <pboy> We have a podcast SIG or team. A member, Eric the IT guy asked about a podcast about Server
17:27:19 <eseyman> I listened to the Lenovo episode this afternoon
17:27:47 <pboy> Nice.
17:27:49 <pboy> I think I can spread my thesis of Flock a little better.
17:28:01 <pboy> or better our thesis and plannings.
17:28:10 <pboy> A possible date is Dec 5
17:28:50 <pboy> Someone willing / inclined to join me? Could need someone with "slightly" better english skills than me.
17:28:55 <mowest> I was hoping that the Server WG would get on the Fedora Podcast.
17:29:12 <pboy> You are welcome !!!!
17:29:32 <pboy> Your English could be "a bit" better than mine. :-)
17:29:32 <eseyman> I'll pass
17:30:27 <mowest> I'm not unwilling to join you Peter, but I don't believe I have a deep enough understanding of server workloads, and topics to contribute much to the discussion.
17:31:37 <pboy> mowest I think we would prepare some thesis together so we could could take turns talking.
17:32:04 <pboy> That would take a lot of pressure off me.
17:32:36 <pboy> Let's discuss this over the next weeks and look, how far we get.
17:32:55 <pboy> Well, net topic?
17:33:15 <eseyman> yes
17:33:18 <pboy> #topic 4. F39/40 Work Project: Fedora Server in a virtualized runtime environment
17:33:27 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/110
17:33:44 <pboy> There is some feedback from the community:
17:33:54 <pboy> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/VERXAPOYTXHY5USAUHC74OW2WWIEPH2S/
17:34:27 <pboy> There is a lot of interest for that. I had a lot of question after my talk on Flock.
17:34:37 <mowest> I'm definately willing to consider this. I guess I would need to see more clearly how I could help. I've been a fan of Eric the IT guy.
17:34:56 <pboy> mowest 1++
17:35:52 <pboy> Se let's prepare something over the next week!
17:36:12 <mowest> ok
17:36:26 <pboy> #action mowest and pboy will prepare a community action about Fedora Server in a virtualized runtime environment
17:37:12 <pboy> I'm very happy that we start this to push forward! There will be a lot to do before F40
17:37:27 <pboy> #topic 5. Work Project: Using Ansible to install and configure Wildfly
17:37:37 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/60
17:37:44 <pboy> jwhinpel
17:38:00 <pboy> jwhimnpel I guess it's your turn here
17:39:51 <jwhimpel> I've made a little progress on deploying an app.  I can't seem to find the place in the xml to configure the interface between maven:deploy and wildfly.  Will ask the Google groups soon.  Also quickstarts seem to not yet be converted to new jakarta class naming convention.
17:40:34 <jwhimpel> Due to other higher priority tasks during next three weeks, I don't expect to make much progress until the second week in October.
17:41:23 <pboy> OK. So we will wait a bit and maybe discuss on mailing list.
17:41:41 <pboy> May we switch to Open Floor?
17:42:05 <eseyman> Let's
17:42:10 <pboy> #topic  6. Open Floor
17:42:37 <eseyman> So I tried to install Fedora 38 Server on my Khadas Vim last weekend
17:42:58 <eseyman> For some reason, the Vim wouldn't boot off the SD card
17:43:16 <pboy> That's strange
17:43:23 <eseyman> I went back to the Khadas-supplied images. No change
17:44:02 <pboy> Did you try to empty the SPI?
17:44:08 <eseyman> Because I kept booting to the Android on the eMMC, I tried configuring that to boot from SD
17:44:25 <eseyman> Now, the Vim crash-loops on startup
17:44:42 <pboy> Very bad!
17:44:52 <eseyman> Yes. Needless to say, this isn't the result I was aiming for
17:45:26 <eseyman> I'll try to debug this after testing Fedora 39 Beta
17:45:35 <pboy> I suppose, the VIN has an OTG mode. So you can use a connection to your PC to reset the eMMC
17:46:21 <mowest> I don't know if  this is similar, but I have had issues with Raspberry Pi's booting off of images on SD's, the solution has been to completely wipe the SD card then reimage the SD card, and the Pi's boot. I have brought a few what I thought were dead Pi's back to life doing this.
17:47:11 <mowest> If I just write a new image over the old image on the SD cards this didn't work. The Pi's wouldn't boot.
17:47:28 <mowest> I had to wipe the SD's completely as if they were factory blank.
17:47:33 <eseyman> I'll reach out to the Khadas community via their forums. They seem a friendly bunch
17:47:42 <eseyman> mowest: I will try that
17:48:00 <pboy> Good luck.
17:48:28 <mowest> I doubt there is anything that can be done, but the #server tag seems to be over used on https://discussion.fedoraproject.org
17:49:04 <mowest> I imported an RSS feed of all discussion with the #server tag to get ideas of where we need better documentation.
17:49:50 <mowest> However, there are a number of times that the question being asked is about #workstation and desktop linux specifically, and nothing to do with server or server fuctions and workloads.
17:49:57 <pboy> What do you mean with over-used? My impression is, it is often user for other Editions.
17:50:11 <pboy> mowest yes!
17:50:39 <pboy> But there are some interesting discussion, too. Recently about an podman issue in non-root mode.
17:51:09 <pboy> Maybe, that's something for our documentation.
17:51:57 <pboy> An addition to the SBC discussion
17:52:05 <mowest> Yes, we need documentation on podman. I have tried to use it a few times, but have never gotten it to work in non-root mode.
17:52:06 <pboy> A friend of mine has a PI4 compute model he will give mi for testing.
17:52:29 <pboy> So we will have another variant.
17:53:05 <mowest> I have a Pi4 with 4gigs of RAM. I have an RPi3 also but I don't think Fedora installs on anything less than a Pi4 but maybe I'm wrong about that.
17:53:30 <pboy> mowest That's another topic (podman) we could coordinate our work. I'm just using podman to setup a Fedora video conference server.
17:53:55 <pboy> Or better: trying to use ....
17:54:05 <mowest> In our homelab my son has all of our stuff running in podman with root and with SE Linux still enabled :-)
17:55:04 <mowest> My son is more of a wizard in server workloads than me, I fumble with some stuff, but he is the brains behind our homelab, I'm more the idea guy of what to try next, then he implements it.
17:55:52 <pboy> I am not so convinced about Docker style Containers. It is a lot of extra work. Hardly worth it unless you deploy a lot of identical containers.
17:57:01 <pboy> Or you have really well prepared container version of a software. But that seems to be quite rare to me.
17:57:22 <pboy> Well, I think our time is up.
17:57:47 <pboy> We took a big step forward today.
17:58:11 <mowest> Good points, about Docker style containers, that is why I'm learning lxd and lxc containers because they work more like virtual machines.
17:58:32 <mowest> They don't hurt my brain as much :-)
17:58:57 <eseyman> pboy, did you manage to debug your NFS issues?
17:59:03 <pboy> mowest You should try systemd containers. They are easy as well, very powerful, and better supported on Fedora
17:59:14 <pboy> eseyman Still on my todo. .-)
17:59:19 <eseyman> okay
17:59:29 <mowest> Interesting never heard of them.
18:00:01 <pboy> As soon as I finished my draft about my literature analyses of SBC I will have a period to close all those open strings.
18:00:24 <pboy> mowestr It's in our Server documentation.
18:01:13 <pboy> OK, I'll close now.
18:01:17 <mowest> Okay, I will dive into that this week.
18:01:42 <pboy> Good by everybody. See you in 14 days again, at latest I hole .
18:01:53 <pboy> #endmeeting