18:00:10 <pboy> #startmeeting fedora-server
18:00:10 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 15 18:00:10 2023 UTC.
18:00:10 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:00:10 <zodbot> The chair is pboy. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
18:00:10 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:10 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-server'
18:00:19 <pboy> #topic Welcome / roll call
18:00:20 <mowest> .hello2
18:00:20 <zodbot> mowest: mowest 'Steve Daley' <mowest@vivaldi.net>
18:00:33 <pboy> Welcome to our Server WG IRC meeting today!
18:00:41 <pboy> Hi mowest
18:01:03 <pboy> Please, everybody who is lurking, say either .hello2 or .hello <fasname>
18:01:09 <mowest> Hello pboy, thanks for leading our meeting once again.
18:01:23 <pboy> Thanks, I do my best. :-)
18:01:31 <pboy> And I’ll post the agenda in 2 minutes.
18:02:09 <pboy> .hi
18:02:10 <zodbot> pboy: pboy 'Peter Boy' <pboy@uni-bremen.de>
18:02:58 <pboy> mowest thanks for comming
18:03:10 <pboy> I guess many missed the time changing
18:03:42 <pboy> Well let's start nevertheless with the agenda
18:03:47 * nirik is as usual busy other places, but lurking in the back if he can help any
18:04:01 <pboy> nirik Thanks!
18:04:02 <mowest> Yes, the time change confused me a bit, an hour later for me today which is okay for my schedule.
18:04:32 <pboy> Yeah, but many might run into difficulties
18:04:40 <pboy> #topic Agenda
18:04:50 <pboy> #info  Follow up actions
18:04:58 <pboy> #info  Change of timing of our meetings in summer
18:05:07 <pboy> #info  F38 Beta testing
18:05:20 <pboy> #info  F38: Shorter Shutdown Timer
18:05:29 <pboy> #info  Fedora Website revamp – Fedora Server Edition pages
18:05:38 <pboy> #info  Using Ansible to install and configure Wildfly
18:05:46 <pboy> #info  Open Floor
18:06:04 <pboy> Anything else to add?
18:06:10 <mowest> Nothing from me
18:06:14 <pboy> OK
18:06:25 <pboy> #topic 1. Follow up actions
18:06:38 <pboy> #info DONE action nirik to look up the services in our technical specification and check for time out value
18:06:48 <pboy> #info DONE pboy to create a ticket to collect our central messages for the new web site
18:06:58 <pboy> #info DONE action pboy will create a summary of our discussion about service specific timeouts
18:07:07 <pboy> #ingo DONE pboy will open a mailing list discussion about interdependencies between services and the consequences
18:07:29 <pboy> So, there arfe no open actions. Or did I miss something?
18:07:52 <mowest> None that I know of
18:07:57 <pboy> OK
18:07:58 <pboy> #info No further open actions
18:08:22 <pboy> #topic 2. Change of timing of our meetings in summer
18:08:52 <cooltshirtguy> .hello2
18:08:53 <zodbot> cooltshirtguy: cooltshirtguy 'Jason Beard' <jas_beard@hotmail.com>
18:08:57 <pboy> Well,formaly we can't decide anything, because we miss the quorum.
18:09:16 <pboy> Hi Jason! now we have the quorum.
18:09:25 <cooltshirtguy> cool
18:09:56 <pboy> What do we do with our meeting time change?
18:10:39 <pboy> Any objection here?
18:10:45 <mowest> Since US had its time change, if you wanted to go back to 17:00 UTC I would be okay with that.
18:11:23 <mowest> I like either 17:00 UTC or 18:00 UTC because I'm usually in the office at those times on a Wednesday and can be in IRC.
18:11:51 <mowest> Keeping it at 18:00 UTC would be fine for me too.
18:12:15 <cooltshirtguy> 17 or 18 UTC is fine with me.
18:12:33 <pboy> Last fall we decided to adjust the time, winter time it was, so it is the same time for everones everyday :-)
18:13:07 <cooltshirtguy> i joined at noon. i forgot about the time change
18:13:20 <mowest> If 18:00 UTC you could just leave it even with the time changes for me. When it is 17:00 UTC in the Fall that lands during the lunch hour and I'm hit or miss at that time.
18:14:13 <mowest> cooltshirtguy, you must be Central time zone?
18:14:37 <copperi[m]> .hello2
18:14:40 <zodbot> copperi[m]: Sorry, but user 'copperi [m]' does not exist
18:14:44 <cooltshirtguy> yep
18:14:52 <pboy> The experience from winter was, so long as we kept with 18:00 UTC, we had significant less participants.
18:15:55 <mowest> I'm fine with 17:00 UTC during the summer then, and 18:00 UTC during the winter if you think we can have better participation.
18:16:04 <pboy> Well, I think the best way is to open a thread on the mailing list. We are not enough people at the moment.
18:16:37 <pboy> mowest that's the idea, to switch with each time chane so it's the same in everyday life.
18:17:14 <pboy> any objection to open a thread on mailing list?
18:17:22 <mowest> No objection
18:17:40 <cooltshirtguy> nope
18:17:50 <pboy> #action pboy to open a thread about meeting time change on mailing list.
18:18:01 <pboy> OK, next topic
18:18:11 <pboy> #topic 3. F38 Beta testing
18:18:27 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/99
18:18:44 <pboy> I created a list of things to test in additin to the automatic tests.
18:18:53 <pboy> Anything to add here?
18:20:03 <pboy> OK none
18:20:15 <pboy> And the magic question: who will take case of which item?
18:20:26 <pboy> s/case/care
18:22:00 <pboy> I can handle all the installation and virutalization topics
18:22:20 <pboy> What about postgresql?
18:22:42 <mowest> Looking at this list I don't think I normally do any of those tasks on my servers.
18:23:33 <pboy> mowest OK, you are out of the game (Leonard Cohen. :-) )
18:23:47 <mowest> :-:
18:23:50 <mowest> :-)
18:24:03 <cooltshirtguy> I know i did install on a pi last time.
18:24:15 <pboy> sgallagh are you online? Can you care about IPA again?
18:26:11 <pboy> Hm, probably not online.
18:26:29 <pboy> We will check next meeting again.
18:26:45 <pboy> We have currently a slight issue with Server VM
18:27:06 <cooltshirtguy> postgresql just install it?
18:27:40 <pboy> coolshirtguy yes, install and start postgres, following the documentation.
18:28:07 <cooltshirtguy> sure i can do that
18:28:19 <pboy> OK! thanks!
18:28:48 <pboy> Regarding server VM, we have a kind of missunderstanding, hopefully
18:28:58 <pboy> #link  https://pagure.io/fedora-kickstarts/pull-request/949
18:29:06 <pboy> #link  https://pagure.io/fedora-kickstarts/pull-request/948
18:29:37 <pboy> nirik Do you think we get it into the next beta? Do you need additional information?
18:30:00 <nirik> I have not yet had time to get back to it.
18:30:14 <nirik> I just wanted to know what the problem was so I could review the change.
18:31:07 <pboy> Yeah, I added complete information. There is no bug at all, I did it just the wrong way at first.
18:31:47 <pboy> And after studying virt-install documentation I found the mistake and fixed it with the PR
18:32:37 * nirik will add feedback there/merge when I get a chance.
18:32:47 <pboy> OK, thanks
18:32:59 <pboy> Anything else here?
18:33:26 <pboy> Obviously not.
18:33:28 <cooltshirtguy> nope
18:33:39 <pboy> #topic 4. F38 - Shorter Shutdown Timer
18:33:52 <pboy> #link issue #96: https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/96
18:35:04 <pboy> First we should not forget our intention to include a text in our documentary "how to make changes to the .service file if someone has an issue." (jdubby last meeting).
18:35:15 <pboy> A section in the "Post Installation Guide" would be a convenient spot
18:35:28 <pboy> Who can write a short appropriate text? I could include it in the documentation if that should be a problem.
18:37:48 <pboy> nirik Can you provide me with 2-3 sentences shat to do where and I can add it to documentation?
18:38:07 <pboy> I have currently no idea where to start.
18:38:19 <pboy> s/shat/wwhat
18:38:33 <cooltshirtguy> are we following coreOS and not using the new timer? still connfused on which way were going
18:38:36 <nirik> I think it's just one line in the service file...
18:39:01 <pboy> nirik yeah, which service file?
18:39:10 <nirik> or a /etc/systemd/systemd.conf to change globally.
18:39:37 <pboy> OK, I think the proposal is to do it globally
18:39:45 <nirik> the service file for the service you want to change? just add TimeoutSec=infinity to the [Service] section
18:40:44 <nirik> in /etc/systemd/system.conf: DefaultTimeoutStopSec=infinity
18:40:45 <nirik> (or number of seconds)
18:41:12 <pboy> nirik I'll take all this information and write a text. Would have a short look onto it?
18:41:35 <pboy> To ensure I don't write soemething completly wrong. :-)
18:41:38 <nirik> sure, I can. I wonder... could this be a quick doc? or is it too specific?
18:42:11 <pboy> We could make a quick doc and will add a section to our post-install guide.
18:42:39 <nirik> happy to help review (although I am traveling all next week)
18:42:45 <mowest> I like the idea of adding it to the Post-Install guide which I think has similar tweaks.
18:42:58 <pboy> <cooltshirtguy> that's the next question we have to discuss
18:43:40 <cooltshirtguy> ok
18:43:40 <pboy> #action pboy will write a info about changing the timeout value and nirik will review
18:44:05 <pboy> So, nest item here.
18:44:39 <pboy> I wrote a summary of the current status of time out value configuration.
18:44:54 <pboy> #link  https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/O35T2YYLSXC6YAV5LRYBPZENW3AX4GEP/
18:45:00 <pboy> at the end.
18:46:12 <pboy> In short: the situation is mixed and not a solid and reliable  overall configuration
18:47:30 <pboy> And therefore my proposal to follow CoreOS
18:47:43 <pboy> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/ERF2MR7NMO44FWIHUJFF3NW7LAMK7SMM/
18:48:22 <pboy> Any ideas? comments?
18:48:30 <nirik> I'd personally say stick to default, but if I am in the minority thats fine, I will move on with life. ;)
18:48:59 <cooltshirtguy> follow coreOS
18:49:12 <copperi[m]> +1
18:49:13 <mowest> I would prefer to stick with as many defaults as we can have with Workstation. It brings us in line with the majority of installs and users then.
18:49:54 <pboy> I would prefer o follow coreOS, too.
18:50:40 <pboy> so follow CoreOS +3, 0, -2
18:50:48 <pboy> Did I count right?
18:51:10 <cooltshirtguy> looks right to me
18:51:13 <mowest> Looks like you did count correctly.
18:51:15 <nirik> yep
18:51:50 <pboy> OK, so let's do it.
18:52:40 <pboy> #agreed to take the same oute as CoreOS and keep the old default value. +3, 0, -2
18:52:47 <pboy> undu
18:52:50 <pboy> undo
18:52:55 <pboy> #undo
18:52:55 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: AGREED by pboy at 18:52:40 : to take the same oute as CoreOS and keep the old default value. +3, 0, -2
18:53:00 <sgallagh> pboy: Sorry, my ping notification just went off now
18:53:02 <sgallagh> What did you need?
18:53:10 <pboy> #agreed to take the same route as CoreOS and keep the old default value. +3, 0, -2
18:54:03 <pboy> sgallagh We need someone to test the IPA criterium for beta. You used to do that some release ago*
18:54:37 <sgallagh> I stopped because it's exercised very thoroughly by autoqa at this point.
18:55:30 <pboy> OK, so you think we can it remove from the manual testing list?
18:56:43 <sgallagh> Yes
18:56:58 <pboy> OK, then I'll do that. Thanks.
18:57:10 <pboy> Well, next topic
18:57:28 <pboy> #topic 4. Fedora Website revamp – Fedora Server Edition pages
18:57:51 <pboy> #link Issue #66: https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/66
18:58:00 <pboy> Current draft:
18:58:10 <pboy> #link https://fedora.gitlab.io/websites-apps/fedora-websites/fedora-websites-3.0/server/
18:58:18 <pboy> Developer discussion
18:58:29 <pboy> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-server-front-page-revamp-looking-for-feedback/79037/9
18:58:51 <pboy> We have to decide about the graphics and specifically about the descriptive texts
18:59:07 <pboy> mowest how do you see it?
18:59:41 <mowest> I would like to see us happy with the graphics for the F38 release because I think they have limited time at this point to make major graphics changes.
18:59:46 <sgallagh> I'm impressed
19:00:10 <pboy> mowest +1
19:00:20 <mowest> I can live with the current wording, but I read your email and we would have to do some work to recraft your ideas with the current graphics.
19:01:13 <pboy> mowest We should make compromises. We should take the graphics as given. And work with those / around those.
19:01:52 <pboy> Problem is, our time is up.
19:01:58 <nirik> It looks lovely. Thanks for all the hard work on it!
19:02:11 <mowest> pboy, I know that you would like to expose the docs more, but from the mockups that I have seen they seem to want to keep the docs under the "Help" menu.
19:02:34 <pboy> mowest. yes to ma chagrin
19:02:57 <pboy> The docs team decided to open an issue about it.
19:03:12 <pboy> nirik +1 !
19:03:44 <mowest> I could see a "Download" button next to a "Documentation" button, I think that would look nice, but the website design team would have to go for that idea.
19:04:20 <mowest> For all the editions
19:04:27 <pboy> I'm very content with the page. It's just a bit of fine tuning I would like to get done
19:05:29 <pboy> Well, we have to continue the discussion by email or in our chat room.
19:05:32 <cooltshirtguy> I like it
19:05:37 <mowest> I'm okay with the current being version 1 if we can't get any other wording changes in before F38, but I know the website team wants to open up being able to change the text.
19:05:46 <copperi[m]> It looks nice
19:05:51 <mowest> to the WG's
19:06:27 <pboy> mowest that would be cool and helpful
19:07:19 <pboy> mowest can we chat tomorroy at  18:00 UTC in our chat room?
19:08:07 <mowest> Yes I can try to be there for a bit
19:08:08 <pboy> So we can discuss how to proceed in detail?
19:09:05 <pboy> OK, than let's try that. Of course, everyone is invited !!
19:09:15 <pboy> mowest is our designee for this, so we need him.
19:09:20 <pboy> :-)
19:09:43 <mowest> see you tomorrow in #fedora-server
19:09:57 <pboy> OK, I close now. Let's meet in our chat room or in 3 weeks !!!!!!! in April
19:10:16 <pboy> #endmeeting