17:00:11 <pboy> #startmeeting fedora-server
17:00:11 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul 20 17:00:11 2022 UTC.
17:00:11 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:00:11 <zodbot> The chair is pboy. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
17:00:11 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:11 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-server'
17:00:23 <pboy> #topic Welcome / roll call
17:00:33 <pboy> Welcome to our Server WG IRC meeting today!
17:00:50 <pboy> „Same procedure as every year“ We'll give a few minutes for folks to show up
17:01:03 <pboy> I’ll post the agenda in a few minutes.
17:02:17 <jwhimpel> .hello
17:02:17 <zodbot> jwhimpel: (hello <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "hellomynameis $1".
17:02:27 <cooltshirtguy> .hi
17:02:28 <zodbot> cooltshirtguy: cooltshirtguy 'Jason Beard' <jas_beard@hotmail.com>
17:03:38 <davide> .hello dcavalca
17:03:39 <zodbot> davide: dcavalca 'Davide Cavalca' <dcavalca@fb.com>
17:05:26 <pboy> Welcome. We are quite afew today, but we meet our quorum, so we can get started.
17:05:37 <pboy> #topic Agenda
17:05:45 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/report/Meeting
17:05:54 <pboy> #info Follow up actions
17:06:03 <pboy> #info  Review current Fedora Server Technical Specification
17:06:11 <pboy> #info Using Ansible to install and configure Wildfly
17:06:25 <pboy> #info Open Floor
17:06:45 <pboy> Any additional topiv for today?
17:06:59 * nirik waves. Prepping the mass rebuild, but trying to follow along as time permits. :)
17:07:18 <pboy> nirik Good luck!
17:07:55 <pboy> #topic  Follow up actions
17:08:05 <pboy> No outstanding action items at the moment as far as I know.
17:08:13 <pboy> Does anyone have anything to add here?
17:09:01 <pboy> Obviously not. Then our main course today
17:09:14 <pboy> #topic Review current Fedora Server Technical Specification
17:09:24 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/58
17:09:35 <pboy> Draft:
17:09:44 <pboy> #link   https://hackmd.io/9or6pDs3Qq6DzzgVzXgmeQ
17:09:57 <pboy> How should we proceed?
17:10:17 <pboy> From comment to comment or one chapter after the other?
17:11:56 <pboy> If no one has a preference, let's get the comments started.
17:12:05 <pboy> That might get us through the whole text once today.
17:13:10 <pboy> First comment: about mentioning the API. Proposal: ditch it. currently we don't use API.
17:13:54 <jonathanspw> .hello
17:13:54 <zodbot> jonathanspw: (hello <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "hellomynameis $1".
17:14:16 <pboy> Welcome  jonathanspw
17:14:39 <pboy> I see no objection.
17:14:46 <cooltshirtguy> i say ditch it.
17:14:57 <pboy> #agreed 1st paragraph, omit API.
17:15:35 <pboy> second comment about Server Roles, supported services, etc - our Ansibleproject.
17:16:19 <pboy> Proposal: we keep Server Roles, but now with Ansible instead of API / Cockpit programming
17:17:28 <pboy> See no objections. so:
17:17:41 <pboy> #agreed Term for Core Services: We retain Server Roles
17:18:05 <pboy> Third comment about Fedora Base Server Group.
17:18:22 <pboy> Does anyone know if it still exist and is working?
17:18:47 <jwhimpel> I've never seen anything from them.
17:19:11 <jwhimpel> I'd drop that paragraph.
17:19:20 <pboy> OK.
17:19:31 <pboy> #agreed drop that paragraph.
17:19:42 <cooltshirtguy> agreed
17:19:49 <pboy> paragraph about Base Working Groujp I mean
17:20:38 <pboy> Forth comment, cmurf about omitting an exact limit of DVD
17:21:03 <pboy> I think, it may be better in the release criteria
17:21:10 <jwhimpel> s/of data/the system and it's data/
17:22:08 <jwhimpel> s/of data/of the system and it's data/
17:22:17 <pboy> I don't see something about data in that paragraph ?
17:22:48 <jwhimpel> sorry, I jumped the gun and was looking at 1.2
17:23:15 <pboy> OK.
17:23:35 <pboy> So we omit the number as proposed?
17:24:11 <cooltshirtguy> lol i just finally figured out the comments
17:24:11 <jwhimpel> +1
17:24:21 <pboy> #agreed We omit a definite number of DVD size
17:24:28 <cooltshirtguy> agreed
17:24:54 <pboy> Well fifth comment, cmurf about den installation defaults
17:25:43 <pboy> This seems to me to be the most difficult part.
17:26:49 <cmurf> I would just cut out all the extraneous stuff and leave in the facts of what you have.
17:26:51 <pboy> Anyone with a better / another idea?
17:26:59 <cmurf> Until such time you're ready to revisit the defaults
17:27:33 <pboy> Welcome cmurf!
17:27:46 <cmurf> For what it's worth, there is a non-obvious and suboptimal side-effect to significantly growing XFS file systems
17:28:16 <cmurf> so it's best to set the size of the `/` LV+XFS to the intended size at the time of installation
17:28:31 <pboy> The proposed omissions in the first paragraph of the sequence ("Fedora Server gives .) should fitt your proposal?
17:28:42 <cmurf> rather than depending on growing the LV and resizing the XFS later on
17:29:30 <cmurf> It's just my opinion that it's wordy to say "Fedora Server gives the highest priority to maximum reliability and security" I don't know what that means
17:30:18 <pboy> OK, so the first paragraph is: Fedora Server gives the highest priority to maximum reliability and security of data with a maximum of possible performance.
17:31:03 <pboy> #agreed 1. paragraph in 1.2: Fedora Server gives the highest priority to maximum reliability and security of data with a maximum of possible performance.
17:31:04 <cmurf> But also it's an addition from the previous tech spec, so adding this section suggests a purpose. So what's the purpose?
17:31:37 <pboy> I don't think it is an addition.
17:32:00 <pboy> It describes out default installation.
17:32:15 <cmurf> this is what's in the original
17:32:16 <cmurf> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server/Technical_Specification#File_system
17:32:34 <pboy> The purpose is to describe the rationale für out default installation
17:33:25 <cmurf> I don't think you need a rationale beyond what's in the original iteration until you've decided you might want to change it
17:33:55 <pboy> That text is outdated. It describes the situation before designing a default installation.
17:33:58 <cmurf> i'm not sure it makes sense to reinforce what you have because it sounds to me like it'll make it harder to change your default down the road
17:34:47 <pboy> I don't think we'll make it harder. It is just a description of the current state.
17:34:57 <cmurf> The one part of the text that's outdated is swap.
17:35:01 <cmurf> There is now swap on zram, for Server, same as all the other Fedora variants.
17:35:10 <NishantMishra[m]> hello
17:35:39 <pboy> Outdated is: File-system layout will be discussed with the Anaconda team and reasonable defaults will be selected based o
17:36:16 <cmurf> Presumably you would have that conversation with them if/when considering a change.
17:36:18 <pboy> The reasonable default were decided and we currently use it
17:36:48 <cmurf> Yeah that was in around 2014, I was part of those discussions that lead to the current layout.
17:37:41 <cmurf> Anyway, I think the original is (a) less wordy, and (b) more flexible for the future.
17:38:27 <cmurf> You don't need to say /boot is 1G in the tech spec for example, or that the root file system is 15G
17:38:41 <pboy> Yes fewer words, but more non-specific.
17:38:44 <cmurf> you don't want to have to change this doc to make trivial changes to the size of partitions and volumes
17:39:03 <cmurf> OK but what problem is being solved by being more specific?
17:39:23 <pboy> agreed, we should omit the size specifications.
17:40:19 <pboy> Otherwise: We explain and justify the current concept. This is the purpose of a technical specification.
17:40:53 <pboy> Well, how to proceed?
17:41:10 <pboy> Lets try to find an agreeable wording on the mailing list?
17:41:33 <pboy> Or lets try 2 alternatives we can vote about.
17:43:03 <pboy> I see no other suggestion. So let's discuss 1.2 on mailing list.
17:43:27 <pboy> #action Discuss details of section 1.2 on mailing list.
17:44:26 <pboy> Next comment is just editorial: we use Server Role .
17:44:59 <pboy> #agreed Section 1.4 We use Server Role
17:45:31 <pboy> Section 1.6 Is the same. Any other ideas?
17:46:12 <pboy> #agreed Section 1.6 (Firewall) we use Server Role here, too
17:46:51 <pboy> Comment/Question about 1.7 Account handling: Any idea here?
17:47:52 <pboy> OK no objection.
17:48:09 <pboy> #agreed section 1.7 remains as it is
17:48:50 <pboy> Section 1.8 Logging, Proposal to take cmurfs wording.
17:49:45 <pboy> I see no ojjections
17:50:22 <pboy> #agreed section 1.8: 1. paragraph as proposed by cmurf, 2. paragraph as is, 3. paragraph omitted.
17:51:05 <pboy> Section 1.10 System Installer comments?
17:52:36 <pboy> Suggestion: leave as is and change after scheduled review of our installation medium.
17:52:46 <pboy> if needed.
17:53:21 <pboy> I see no objections.
17:53:22 <cooltshirtguy> agreed to leave as is
17:54:02 <pboy> #agreed we leave 1.10 as is and change after scheduled review of our installation medium if required.
17:54:45 <x3mboy> .hello2
17:54:46 <zodbot> x3mboy: x3mboy 'Eduard Lucena' <eduardlucena@gmail.com>
17:55:06 <pboy> Comments in section 4: Most are editorial. Any comments?
17:57:14 <pboy> Proposal: we do not add more details as some comments are asking for.
17:57:46 <pboy> I see no objections.
17:57:51 <cooltshirtguy> nope
17:58:30 <pboy> #agreed: Section 4: We do not add more details here for now.
17:58:47 <pboy> So, we have one complete pass, now.
17:58:56 <pboy> And our time is up.
17:59:39 <pboy> I'll make a next version containing out agreements today.
18:00:30 <pboy> #action pboy will create a next version of the techn. spec. containing our agreements today.
18:00:53 <pboy> Any comments and additions, before we close?
18:00:57 <cooltshirtguy> no
18:02:33 <pboy> Thanks for comming and for discussion. We made good progress on an important, long outstanding issue.
18:02:47 <cooltshirtguy> thank you!
18:02:53 <pboy> #endmeeting