17:00:58 <pboy> #startmeeting fedora-server
17:00:58 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed May 18 17:00:58 2022 UTC.
17:00:58 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:00:58 <zodbot> The chair is pboy. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
17:00:58 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:58 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-server'
17:01:07 <pboy> #topic Welcome / roll call
17:01:15 <pboy> Welcome to our Server WG IRC meeting today!
17:01:23 <pboy> Please, everybody who is lurking, say either .hello2 or .hello <fasname>
17:01:32 <pboy> I’ll post the agenda in a few minutes.
17:02:53 <jwhimpel> .hello2
17:02:54 <zodbot> jwhimpel: jwhimpel 'John Himpel' <john@jlhimpel.net>
17:03:08 <pboy> Hi John!
17:04:43 <eseyman> .hello2
17:04:44 <zodbot> eseyman: eseyman 'Emmanuel Seyman' <emmanuel@seyman.fr>
17:04:51 <eseyman> hello, everybody
17:05:08 <pboy> Hi Emmanuel!
17:05:14 <cooltshirtguy> .hello2
17:05:14 <zodbot> cooltshirtguy: cooltshirtguy 'Jason Beard' <jas_beard@hotmail.com>
17:05:32 <pboy> Welcome Jason!
17:05:43 <cooltshirtguy> hello everyone
17:06:37 <pboy> Obviously, we are a smaller group today.
17:06:44 <pboy> But let's get started nevertheless
17:06:53 <pboy> #topic Agenda
17:07:01 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/report/Meeting
17:07:08 <pboy> #info Follow up actions
17:07:16 <pboy> #info Change proposal about GPT as default partitioning for bios boot
17:07:24 <pboy> #info Planning for Fedora 37: Additional changes to discuss?  (continued)
17:07:32 <pboy> #info How to proceed with Cockpit File Sharing module
17:07:39 <pboy> #info Open Floor
17:07:50 <pboy> Any additional topic ?
17:08:00 <pboy> You may get an overview of our ongoing and outstanding tasks at
17:08:11 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/boards/Works%20in%20progress
17:08:56 <pboy> Obviously no additional topic so far
17:09:02 <eseyman> no, I'm good
17:09:07 <pboy> #topic  Follow up actions
17:09:18 <pboy> #info We voted successfully for 4 new members: cooltshirtguy, dcavalca, eseyman, mowest, a very warm welcome.
17:09:26 <pboy> I have already updated our list of members.
17:09:34 <pboy> Congratulations!
17:09:45 <pboy> #info Created Change proposal to add Server VM is still processing
17:09:53 <pboy> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Supplement-server-by-kvm-vm-image
17:09:53 <eseyman> Thank you, everybody who voted!
17:10:22 <pboy> Anything new about „default hostname“?
17:10:35 <cooltshirtguy> thanks
17:11:23 <pboy> Yes, I'm glad about the outcome!
17:11:45 <pboy> #info ONGOING: discussion about changes around the default hostname configuration
17:12:09 <pboy> Anything that I missed?
17:12:51 <pboy> OK, let's proceed
17:13:01 <pboy> #topic Change proposal about GPT as default partitioning for bios boot
17:13:08 <pboy> There is currently no ticket for this.
17:13:16 <pboy> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/GPTforBIOSbyDefault
17:13:25 <pboy> Some remarks about that:
17:13:35 <pboy> We had a diskussion on our server list:
17:13:43 <pboy> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/VSM473WRHKIIIJYZZCVXAO7XFS4ACHPH/
17:13:51 <pboy> Problem is that as of current knowledge in the case of a Softraid Anaconda has no idea of setting up the biosboot partition not only on the "first" drive from which the system boots by default. If the drive fails, booting is no longer possible.
17:14:01 <pboy> The "custom" partitioning does not even leave room for Bios boot on the other RAID disks, so it cannot be inserted later.
17:14:09 <pboy> According to Carlos Vidal, "the BIOS boot partition is limited to a single physical disk".
17:14:23 <pboy> This means that a software raid is no longer possible or can only be used to a very limited extent. Very "convenient" for a server.
17:14:44 <pboy> Well, that's it. The Floor is open
17:15:24 <eseyman> this sounds like something that sould be discussed with the Anaconda people
17:15:45 <pboy> yes, indeed.
17:15:53 <eseyman> assuming they're responsible for the partitioning layout
17:16:50 <pboy> We define the layout, but Anaconda must be able to do it.
17:17:07 <pboy> And it's a bit clumsy to demand something that you can't contribute to yourself.
17:17:22 <pboy> We can make an RFE
17:18:22 <pboy> My position is something like:
17:18:38 <pboy> #proposed Server WG strongly objects to the change proposal to make GPT default as long as it is not ensured that Anaconda supports a software raid setup smoothly.
17:18:59 <pboy> And we have to make some dedicated tests.
17:20:03 <eseyman> not sure how I feel about 'strongly objects' but yes to tests and a RFE
17:20:19 <pboy> But maybe, someone already did test it and knows it works?
17:20:49 <pboy> eseyman: maybe just objects?
17:21:16 <pboy> We can't accept to abandon Software Raid, I think.
17:21:28 <eseyman> given that two of our members are part of the change owners, I'm not even sure that's appropriate
17:21:53 <eseyman> I agree, losing SW Raid is unacceptable
17:22:19 <pboy> Unfortunately, both are not here, obviously. So we can't discuss.
17:23:09 <eseyman> let's take it to the mailing list and decide based on the discussion in your next meeting
17:24:57 <pboy> Well, we need not object, when everything is decided.
17:25:05 <pboy> Maybe:
17:25:42 <pboy> #proposed Server WG insists that before switching to GPT as default for BIOS boot, too, it is tested,  that Anaconda supports a software raid setup smoothly.
17:25:52 <eseyman> +1 to that
17:27:14 <pboy> There is an offer by Daniel to do some testing, if we specify the tests.
17:27:56 <cooltshirtguy> sounds good
17:28:41 <pboy> If we agree about the proposal, we can specify test on mailing list and inform on devel list, that we don't agree unless Anaconda supports SW raid.
17:29:28 <pboy> That buys us some time to test.
17:29:56 <eseyman> yes
17:30:06 <pboy> OK, then
17:30:46 <pboy> #agreed Server WG insists that before switching to GPT as default for BIOS boot, it is tested,  that Anaconda supports a software raid setup smoothly.
17:31:12 <pboy> #action pboy will inform devel list.
17:31:36 <pboy> Anything else?
17:32:08 <eseyman> not from me
17:32:17 <pboy> OK. next topic.
17:32:32 <pboy> #topic Planning for Fedora 37: Additional changes to discuss? (continued)
17:32:42 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/79
17:32:53 <pboy> There is an open bug / RFE in bugzilla, we postponed to F37: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2054625
17:33:01 <pboy> We wanted to discuss this on mailing list. But there was silence about that
17:33:57 <pboy> I think we should decide that when we review our distribution media content.
17:34:29 <pboy> But I'm not sure that we are able to complete that for the F37 cycle.
17:37:14 <pboy> Any objection to create a new ticket / work project "Review of Server distribution content" and to add to this the various already existing issues?
17:37:37 <pboy> and add the bugzilla RFE to that?
17:37:39 <cooltshirtguy> no objection
17:39:00 <pboy> #agreed We combine all installation content related issues and actions into one new ticket.
17:39:27 <pboy> #action pboy to create a new ticket about installation media content review
17:39:52 <pboy> Anything else?
17:40:12 <eseyman> nope
17:40:19 <pboy> OK
17:40:23 <cooltshirtguy> no
17:40:35 <pboy> #topic How to proceed with Cockpit File Sharing module
17:40:44 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/86
17:40:50 <pboy> Mail discussiaon at
17:41:01 <pboy> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/T75AU7FLZMDUBMXOD3AXSC4VCYIJ6ZMA/
17:41:20 <mowest> .hello2
17:41:21 <zodbot> mowest: mowest 'Steve Daley' <mowest@vivaldi.net>
17:41:25 <pboy> We should determine how to proceed with that.
17:41:28 <eseyman> hi, mowest
17:41:34 <pboy> Welcome Steve!
17:41:56 <cooltshirtguy> hello mowest
17:42:43 <pboy> I am somewhat at a loss as to what we can and should do.
17:43:37 <pboy> Is someone of us using samba?  or nfs?
17:43:48 <pboy> For me, it is a long time ago.
17:44:41 <eseyman> I export nfs shares from my workstation to my htpc
17:45:04 <eseyman> Likewise, I set this up a long time ago...
17:45:14 <mowest> I'm not using Samba, nor do I plan to. My file sharing on my home and work network is all done by syncthing on the homelab server and all my clients.
17:45:33 <cooltshirtguy> I have a NAS so I don't share out from servers anymore.
17:45:46 <pboy> eseyman: Do you use nfs4 and user authentication? This is missing in the module, I think
17:46:01 <jwhimpel> I'm using nfs, but I don't use cockpit.
17:46:05 <eseyman> nfsv4: yes; user auth: no
17:46:31 <mowest> What is the main question from the long email string that you pointed to?
17:47:14 <pboy> Well, abbra is against any additional user documentation. we should just refer to upstream.
17:47:30 <pboy> Specifically, we chould nothing say about configuration.
17:47:54 <pboy> That would cause to many bug reports.
17:48:03 <pboy> and configuration is too complicated.
17:49:09 <mowest> Ok, could the documentation simply address the cockpit integration? Because there isn't currently a lot of documentation about cockpit and file sharing from what I have seen, but I could be looking in the wrong places. I agree that we should steer away from recreating the Samba documentation and explaining every configuration option.
17:49:16 <eseyman> I believe this mail sums it up the best: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/QMDX5DWLNOYRH5O5YORUC4T3X6JA3SO3/
17:51:30 <pboy> Yes, that is Alexanders position. On the other hand there are various suggestions, e.g. by Matthew.
17:51:54 <pboy> Maybe we need to divide this into steps?
17:52:23 <pboy> Probably, we start with nfs? I think it is easier.
17:52:30 <mowest> Agreed
17:52:43 <cooltshirtguy> that's a good idea
17:52:58 <eseyman> yes
17:53:32 <pboy> #agreed We will divide the topic in several steps and start with nfs.
17:54:04 <pboy> I have a set of ideas about a nfs documentation for Server.
17:54:29 <pboy> I will post a kind of table of content on the mailing list and we can discuss there?
17:54:44 <pboy> anything else?
17:55:26 <pboy> Ok, let's switch
17:55:37 <pboy> #topic Open Floor
17:56:03 <pboy> It the first time since a long period we have time for this topic.
17:56:25 <pboy> Let's use the occasion.
17:56:29 <pboy> :-)
17:56:34 <eseyman> my server is set up so the next step is setting up dnsmask to act as dhcp, dns and tftp server
17:56:58 <eseyman> pboy: I'll be reviewing your documentation in the coming days
17:57:16 <pboy> eseyman: I'll appreciate it!
17:58:11 <pboy> I would like to start the PXE install documentation with a running tftp server, if possible.
17:59:16 <pboy> So we can describe various tftp boot instances, e.g. tftp-server and a full blown DHCP server as an alternativ for huge networks.
18:00:10 <mowest> I'm considering writing up a documentation page on how to use "wake on lan" to wake up your server to start gathering "helpful" docs for the home lab person using Fedora Server.
18:00:22 <pboy> By the way, I'm currently a bit engaged in docs team, too.  But my first preference is still Server.
18:00:34 <mowest> What determines whether we should include a piece of documentation in Fedora Docs for Server?
18:00:42 <pboy> mowest: +1 We are missing something like that
18:01:27 <pboy> mowest: It our decision. Mostly: let's start with documentation of all the administration works we are currently doing anyway
18:01:50 <pboy> That's the way I startet.
18:02:28 <mowest> Also, with this one I would be borrowing heavily from blog posts that I have found on line for other Linux systems, is there an accepted way to credit such articles in the docs even when they might be written for Ubuntu or something else?
18:02:38 <pboy> I started by transferring my own notes and local documentation.
18:03:12 <mowest> I would like to start transferring my own homelab notes in my personal wiki to actual documentation as well.
18:03:30 <pboy> mowest: that totally OK. You have to test all the steps, that is your genuone work. And just mention the threads in a foot note.
18:04:20 <pboy> It would be great if we had y tutorial or a use case: "Fedora Server in a home lab" or so.
18:05:22 <pboy> mowest: I think you already did some great docs on your blog site. Would be great if you could transfer some parts as Fedora Server documentation.
18:06:06 <pboy> Oh, I see our time is up, 5 mins ago.
18:06:17 <mowest> I have even more in a private docsify site on my local intranet, that I would like to work on and polish up for publication as well.
18:07:03 <pboy> mowest: Do that! I think that would be a substantial contribution!
18:07:49 <pboy> And I would like to do the review. :-)). (don't mind, just a joke)
18:08:14 <pboy> Ok, we should close now. Anything to add at the moment?
18:08:40 <pboy> (I have a docs meeting in 20 mins)
18:08:50 <pboy> #endmeeting