18:00:27 <bcotton> #startmeeting Council (2022-02-17)
18:00:27 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Feb 17 18:00:27 2022 UTC.
18:00:27 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:00:27 <zodbot> The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
18:00:27 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:27 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council_(2022-02-17)'
18:00:27 <bcotton> #meetingname council
18:00:27 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council'
18:00:27 <bcotton> #chair bookwar dcantrell siddharthvipul1 riecatnor spot mattdm bcotton sumantrom marianab bt0 t0xic0der
18:00:27 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton bookwar dcantrell siddharthvipul1 riecatnor spot mattdm bcotton sumantrom bt0 marianab t0xic0der
18:00:37 <bcotton> #topic Introductions, Welcomes
18:00:39 <dcantrell> .hello2
18:00:40 <zodbot> dcantrell: dcantrell 'David Cantrell' <dcantrell@redhat.com>
18:00:43 <riecatnor[m]> .hello riecatnor
18:00:44 <zodbot> riecatnor[m]: riecatnor 'Marie Nordin' <mnordin@redhat.com>
18:00:46 <AleksandraFedoro> .hello bookwar
18:00:47 <zodbot> AleksandraFedoro: bookwar 'Aleksandra Fedorova' <alpha@bookwar.info>
18:01:09 <mattdm> .hello2
18:01:10 <zodbot> mattdm: mattdm 'Matthew Miller' <mattdm@mattdm.org>
18:03:05 <mattdm> hi everyone!
18:03:09 <bcotton> #topic Today's agenda
18:03:09 <bcotton> #info Planning to plan for an updated strategic plan
18:03:09 <bcotton> #info Meeting time change?
18:03:09 <bcotton> #info Your topics here
18:03:10 <dcantrell> my lunch is almost here, have to step outside to get it
18:03:25 <bcotton> dcantrell: i hope you ordered enough for everyone
18:03:30 <bcotton> #topic Planning to plan for an updated strategic plan
18:03:30 <bcotton> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-in-2025-what-do-we-want-and-how-will-we-get-there/35258
18:03:30 <bcotton> #info mattdm was to start two addtional threads “on increasing Fedora mindshare in the Linux ecosystem overall; and on making Fedora — both Fedora Linux and Fedora Project — more accessible for people with disabilities and other groups we could be serving better”
18:05:02 <mattdm> Okay, so this is the "Matthew's task lisk of guilt" topic :)
18:05:40 <mattdm> I have some more posts I've promised to kick off and haven't. December was hard, and January was better but went by so fast. And I don't even know what February is.
18:05:53 <mattdm> There I'm done being guilty. Time to move forward :)
18:06:13 <bcotton> I'd #agreed that you're absolved, but you're the pope, not me :p
18:06:31 <mattdm> LOL I thought this was clear. Not the pope. :)
18:06:44 <mattdm> But anyway: there's lots of good stuff in that thread.
18:06:48 <riecatnor[m]> has anyone gimped the popes hat on Matthew yet
18:06:59 <riecatnor[m]> sorry lol
18:07:04 <mattdm> If you do, please send it to adam w :)
18:08:09 <mattdm> Anyway, the next post I'd planned was about how we can increase our mindshare in the Linux ecosystem.
18:08:28 <mattdm> I think it's still a good idea to start that.
18:08:35 <dcantrell> (and back)
18:09:03 <mattdm> And meanwhile, Ben, Marie, and I will start writing up a straw-person proposal to bring to the council, based on what we're hearing (and what we're thinking, of course).
18:09:29 <mattdm> I am on PTO starting tomorrow and until somtime in march. So I wasn't kidding about "what is February even".
18:09:41 <mattdm> But I'm going to commit right now to writing that post this afternoon.
18:09:44 <dcantrell> please begin your straw-person proposal with "Hay, everyone!"
18:09:53 <mattdm> I have to do that and my 2021 ethics compliance "training"
18:09:56 <bcotton> dcantrell++
18:09:56 <zodbot> bcotton: Karma for dcantrell changed to 3 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:09:58 <mattdm> .fire dcantrell
18:10:02 <zodbot> adamw fires dcantrell
18:10:03 <mattdm> .fire bcotton
18:10:06 <zodbot> adamw fires bcotton
18:10:25 <bcotton> .moar ethics mattdm
18:10:25 <zodbot> here mattdm, have some more ethics
18:10:34 <riecatnor[m]> I have also procrastinated that training 😬
18:10:35 <mattdm> yes good now I am ethical
18:10:53 <dcantrell> I too am certified in international bribery and corruption
18:10:57 <mattdm> Can I task someone else with a followup discourse post?
18:10:59 <bcotton> #action mattdm to really write the "how we can increase our mindshare in the Linux ecosystem" post
18:11:08 <AleksandraFedoro> mattdm: just it case you forgot, the year is 2022
18:11:14 <mattdm> That would be: a short summary of the thread linked above
18:11:22 <bcotton> Aleksandra Fedorova: citation needed
18:11:57 <mattdm> Aleksandra Fedorova: 2021 training completion not required until the end of this month. So, in the spirit of compliance regulations in general, I left it until the last possibility
18:13:31 <AleksandraFedoro> my follow-up post do you mean a reply to yours, or you want to delegate writing the first one itself?
18:13:50 <AleksandraFedoro> s/my/by/
18:14:36 <mattdm> Aleksandra Fedorova: I mean a reply ... basically "So, to summarize this thread...." post
18:14:53 <mattdm> Could either be a new linked topic, or just a final reply (after which we'll close the thread, I think).
18:16:42 <mattdm> does this make sense?
18:16:43 <mattdm> crickets? :0
18:17:33 <riecatnor[m]> mattdm: I am not volunteering lol but I am wondering, are we responding to a post you are making on discourse? Or is your post to the commblog?
18:18:05 <mattdm> To https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-in-2025-what-do-we-want-and-how-will-we-get-there/35258 I meant
18:18:58 <AleksandraFedoro> I think I should do that. Recharge Days are there for a reason, right? :)
18:19:27 <mattdm> Aleksandra Fedorova: ++
18:19:36 <mattdm> #help someone port cookies to matrix
18:20:02 <mattdm> bookwar++
18:20:02 <zodbot> mattdm: Karma for bookwar changed to 1 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:20:13 <mattdm> thank you aleksandra! I appreciate it
18:20:39 <bcotton> #action bookwar to write a summary of the first thread
18:21:34 <mattdm> I think in general, we're in a pretty good place in Fedora and I think we could benefit from an ambitious plan. So I'd appreciate people's ambitious ideas :)
18:21:48 <mattdm> Anything else on this topic, anyone?
18:22:17 <riecatnor[m]> nothing from me, thank you Aleksandra Fedorova & mattdm :)
18:23:09 <AleksandraFedoro> There are some NixOS folks I know which have quite a few ideas
18:23:38 <AleksandraFedoro> and "ambitious" is underestimation )
18:24:03 <AleksandraFedoro> let's see how it will work
18:24:23 <bcotton> #topic Meeting time change?
18:24:41 <bcotton> riecatnor: do we have survey results or are you still processing?
18:24:56 <riecatnor[m]> I have 7 responses
18:24:59 <mattdm> Aleksandra Fedorova: if we could combine some nixos ideas with "works with normal human brain", we might have something :)
18:25:25 <riecatnor[m]> that includes my own, and there are two clear times that make sense. I will put it in the email thread tho if that is ok
18:25:30 <riecatnor[m]> not fully organized, but its almost there
18:25:45 <bcotton> sounds good to me
18:25:58 <bcotton> mostly i just added this to the agenda so we'd have two items instead of just one :-D
18:26:51 <bcotton> #topic Next meeting
18:26:51 <bcotton> #info The next regular business meeting is Thursday 3 March
18:26:51 <bcotton> #info The next Video Meeting is 10 March. The guests will be Stephen Gallagher talking about the ELN SIG
18:26:51 <bcotton> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Council/Video_Meetings
18:27:04 <bcotton> #topic Do we have anything to announce?
18:27:04 <bcotton> #info This is a regular check to make sure we're communicating to the contributor (via CommBlog) and user (via Magazine) communities
18:27:42 <mattdm> I don't know of anything right now.
18:27:56 <dcantrell> I know nothing
18:28:15 * bcotton checks pockets, finds only link
18:28:17 <mattdm> Note that I will be just back from PTO for that next meeting. So it will be like no time has passed for me :)
18:28:21 <bcotton> also: lint
18:28:30 <AleksandraFedoro> if we have nothing else on the list I have a random out of nowhere question. Does anyone in the group knows where are we in terms of getting IBM Cloud access?
18:28:40 <mattdm> I have something to note wrt Discourse but it isn't an announcement
18:28:43 <bcotton> #topic Open floor
18:28:59 <dcantrell> no clue, but I also saw their announcement that s390x will be available in the IBM Cloud
18:29:03 <bcotton> anyone have an answer to Aleksandra Fedorova's question first? (i don't)
18:29:11 <bcotton> mattdm: ack. you are enqueued
18:29:29 <mattdm> Aleksandra Fedorova: Do you mean access to resources for us, or Fedora Linux as an option running there?
18:29:58 <AleksandraFedoro> For Fedora contributors and Fedora Project. At FOSDEM there was an interesting talk about Open Mainframe Initiative
18:30:25 <AleksandraFedoro> And they basically said anyone who needs access to arches for FOSS development can request resources from them
18:30:47 <AleksandraFedoro> So maybe we should make it more visible from Fedora side
18:31:03 <AleksandraFedoro> But I guess that should be discussed another time
18:31:19 <mattdm> Yes, that definitely sounds good. Maybe we could also use some of those resources for e.g. mass rebuilds
18:31:48 <AleksandraFedoro> https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/event/collaboration_instead_of_competition/
18:32:28 <mattdm> That definitely seems worth following up on.
18:33:03 <AleksandraFedoro> Should I open a thread on Discourse? :)
18:33:41 <mattdm> yes :)
18:34:04 <mattdm> And then, my things about discourse:
18:34:08 <bcotton> as if there was any other possible answer to that question :-)
18:34:15 <bcotton> good segue :-)
18:34:42 <mattdm> 1. We are moving foward slowly with the Enterprise hosting plan. We finally got to the "legal review" stage, past all of the other RH enterprisy requirements (which are growing ever stricter).
18:35:17 <mattdm> We've got an uptick on "help" posts in discussion recently, so I think merging in Ask will be a key part.
18:35:41 <mattdm> 2. https://meta.discourse.org/t/outgoing-incoming-email-changes-for-our-hosted-customers/218489
18:36:09 <mattdm> discourse announced today that they're changing the email address that messages from discourse come from. This is... annoying, but has several interesting parts.
18:36:59 <mattdm> First, I hope that we can get the enterprise plan in place before this kicks off. Then, we can make it come from a fedoraproject.org address rather than a discoursemail.com one.
18:37:16 <mattdm> Second, I think it highlights what a pain in the ass email is these days at scale.
18:38:11 <mattdm> At some point, we're probably going to have to move fedoraproject.org outgoing email to a big commercial email provider if we want any hope of it having a > 50% delivery rate.
18:38:30 <mattdm> That is all :)
18:38:47 <AleksandraFedoro> I think if we want to keep Project Conversation on Discourse working we would need a heavier moderation on help topics. It is good to get some exposure to user questions, but we don't what  project discussions to disappear under the flow of help requests.
18:39:03 <AleksandraFedoro> Do we plan to extend moderation?
18:39:33 <bcotton> Do we have a...plan...for merging Ask and Discussion? i've come to accept it as an inevitability because of how many Ask questions we get on Discussion, but as bookwar points out, it's going to require a lot of gardening
18:40:03 <mattdm> Aleksandra Fedorova: Yes. I'd like some more active moderator help for sure. But just having them in the same site will make that easier (and actually, bring over a few active moderators from Ask, I hope)
18:41:10 <mattdm> Ben Cotton (he/him): Yeah, feedback on https://ask.fedoraproject.org/t/considering-a-merge-into-discussion-fedoraproject-org/18941 was very strongly in favor
18:41:32 <mattdm> The main question is: will discourse hosting support the multilingual plugin for Discourse as part of the Enterprise plan?
18:42:16 <mattdm> This is a third-party plugin and fairly invasive. AIUI they are generally flexible with this kind of thing but they may want extra $$$ for something that is fairly likely to require tweaks as they make core engine changes.
18:42:50 <mattdm> But, the fact is the non-english categories on Ask are... well, I think more harm than good, to be honest, because the are empty wastelands.
18:44:16 <mattdm> If we can't get the multi-lingual plugin, I think the best approach is going to be just to have a "Ask in Non-English" subcategory.
18:45:08 <bcotton> exciting times
18:45:12 <bcotton> anything else for open floor?
18:46:49 <riecatnor[m]> I am starting to plan the Fedora Linux 36 Release Party, so if you have topics you think we should have at the event, please feel free to send them my way or add them to this ticket
18:46:53 <riecatnor[m]> https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/320
18:47:19 <bcotton> #help riecatnor wants your suggestions for the F36 Release Party
18:47:21 <bcotton> #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/320
18:48:11 <mattdm> yay party!
18:48:24 <bcotton> okay, thanks everyone!
18:48:27 <bcotton> #endmeeting