18:01:12 <riecatnor[m]> #startmeeting Council (2022-1-06)
18:01:12 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jan  6 18:01:12 2022 UTC.
18:01:12 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:01:12 <zodbot> The chair is riecatnor[m]. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
18:01:12 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01:12 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council_(2022-1-06)'
18:01:21 <riecatnor[m]> #meetingname council
18:01:21 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council'
18:01:28 <mattdm> that's yesterday :)
18:01:45 <dcantrell> .hello2
18:01:46 <zodbot> dcantrell: dcantrell 'David Cantrell' <dcantrell@redhat.com>
18:01:54 <riecatnor[m]> what's yesterday?
18:01:55 <mattdm> I say one day off is "close enough" unless anyone has any objectiions
18:02:02 <mattdm> also hi everyone!
18:02:19 <riecatnor[m]> today is the 6th right? or am I seeing things? :)
18:02:26 <dcantrell> it is the 6th
18:02:34 <mattdm> OH well fine
18:02:39 <riecatnor[m]> #chair bookwar dcantrell siddharthvipul1 riecatnor spot mattdm bcotton sumantrom marianab bt0 t0xic0der
18:02:39 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton bookwar bt0 dcantrell marianab mattdm riecatnor riecatnor[m] siddharthvipul1 spot sumantrom t0xic0der
18:02:39 <mattdm> I AM THE ONE WHO IS ONE DAY OFF
18:02:47 <riecatnor[m]> #topic Introductions, Welcomes
18:02:49 <riecatnor[m]> lol
18:02:58 <riecatnor[m]> .hello riecatnor
18:02:59 <zodbot> riecatnor[m]: riecatnor 'Marie Nordin' <mnordin@redhat.com>
18:03:14 <spot> .hello spot
18:03:15 <zodbot> spot: spot 'Tom Callaway' <spotrh@gmail.com>
18:03:31 <mattdm> happy new year everyone
18:04:13 <riecatnor[m]> may 2022 be better than 2021.
18:04:22 <bytehackr> 2022 Year of the Linux Desktop.
18:04:22 <bytehackr> .
18:04:23 <bytehackr> Happy New Year :D
18:04:31 <dcantrell> I thought today was March 677th, 2020
18:04:53 <mattdm> dcantrell: Yes, that makes the most sense to me too
18:04:56 <riecatnor[m]> 2020, Season 3
18:05:14 <riecatnor[m]> #topic Today's agenda
18:05:44 <riecatnor[m]> #topic Go through some of the open tickets, close off more if we can
18:06:02 <riecatnor[m]> #topic Discuss discourse changes, if people want to mattdm
18:06:21 <riecatnor[m]> #topic Ideas/topics / people for video meetings for the next few months
18:06:28 <riecatnor[m]> #topic Your Ideas Here
18:06:47 <mattdm> those are all my ideas, so anyone else's are extra-welcome :)
18:07:03 <riecatnor[m]> I think getting ideas for the video meetings would be a good idea.
18:07:13 <riecatnor[m]> good use of time*
18:07:42 <riecatnor[m]> so I guess Im putting a +1 on that topic :)
18:08:07 <mattdm> let's bump that up to first then
18:08:12 <spot> I could almost certainly have some folks from the Amazon Linux team to come talk if it was wanted.
18:08:27 <riecatnor[m]> #topic Ideas/topics / people for video meetings for the next few months
18:08:41 <riecatnor[m]> spot: that would be cool
18:09:05 <riecatnor[m]> also for reference
18:09:06 <mattdm> spot: That was my idea too. I think that would be great.
18:09:07 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Council/Video_Meetings
18:09:27 <riecatnor[m]> I will add our ideas to the wishlist for now?
18:10:03 <mattdm> I feel like we've had more since the Matrix one. Was that really the last?
18:10:45 <riecatnor[m]> I guess so
18:11:13 <mattdm> Huh.
18:11:19 <riecatnor[m]> I have a vague memory of skipping bc of release party and/or holidays
18:11:29 <mattdm> So I guess one that I can think of is EPEL, with the EPEL 9 launch
18:12:04 <spot> It seems like inviting the SIGs is a logical idea to me.
18:12:08 <riecatnor[m]> the podcast team?
18:12:18 <riecatnor[m]> +1 to SIGs as well
18:12:41 <mattdm> which SIGs in particular spot ?
18:13:24 <riecatnor[m]> mattdm: who would be the speaker or group to contact for the EPEL topic?
18:13:49 <mattdm> carlwgeorge: or tdawson
18:13:55 <riecatnor[m]> I was about to write those out :P
18:14:00 <riecatnor[m]> after I asked I realized lol
18:14:06 <mattdm> (one sec... switching computers)
18:14:38 <mattdm> back :)
18:14:54 <riecatnor[m]> we could put a general call out to SIGs to sign up
18:15:30 <mattdm> Yeah, that's a good idea. Uh, #action spot to put out that call? :)
18:15:57 <dcantrell> he just ran out
18:15:59 <dcantrell> wait there he is
18:16:11 <spot> that was fun. yay brownouts.
18:16:59 <mattdm> spot: I action-itemed you while you were gone :)
18:17:16 <mattdm> Can you send out a call to various SIGs asking them to sign up for a video call?
18:17:48 <mattdm> Works best with a 10-15 minute presentation (either slides or otherwise prepared remarks) and then time for Q&A/discussion
18:18:05 <riecatnor[m]> we ended up not having the "How the Fedora Wallpaper is Made" at F35 RP
18:18:33 <riecatnor[m]> Mo & Madeline would probably be up for that
18:18:36 <spot> mattdm: sure
18:19:06 <riecatnor[m]> spot++
18:20:08 <mattdm> #action spot to send out call to various SIGs asking if they'd like to present at an upcoming Fedora Council video meeting
18:20:23 <mattdm> +1 to wallpaper too.
18:20:26 <riecatnor[m]> I can reach out to Mo/Madeline
18:20:32 <mattdm> +1 riecatnor
18:20:41 <mattdm> Did someone get actioned for the EPEL meeting? If not, I'll take that.
18:20:52 <riecatnor[m]> nope, please do!
18:21:13 <mattdm> ok :)
18:21:17 <riecatnor[m]> that should be 3-6 months of topics
18:21:30 <riecatnor[m]> great work!
18:21:30 <riecatnor[m]> onto the next topic?
18:22:52 <riecatnor[m]> #action riecatnor to reach out to Mizmo/Madeline about Wallpaper session for Fedora Council video meeting
18:23:12 <riecatnor[m]> #action mattdm to reach out to EPEL folks for Fedora Council video meeting
18:23:31 <mattdm> yep. tickets!
18:23:56 <riecatnor[m]> cool, how do you like to go through these mattdm ? I know you have a sorting method
18:24:20 <mattdm> I think we're still in "oldest to newest" mode :)
18:24:43 <riecatnor[m]> works
18:24:48 <riecatnor[m]> #topic tickets
18:24:51 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/198
18:25:07 <mattdm> Okay, so, the status here is: I sent this to lawyers and got no response before the break.
18:25:22 <mattdm> The question is: should I push them, or should we close this as stalled?
18:25:59 <dcantrell> do we expect this to be resolved?
18:25:59 <riecatnor[m]> hmmmm.
18:26:09 <dcantrell> if so, I say one more poke and if nothing, close it
18:26:43 <mattdm> I can do that.
18:27:02 <dcantrell> and let's put a deadline on it
18:27:16 <riecatnor[m]> end of January?
18:27:27 <mattdm> works for me.
18:27:37 <dcantrell> I'm fine with that, but I recommend giving an actual date in the poke
18:28:10 <mattdm> dcantrell: like, hey, if we don't hear from you we're going to just leave it as is?
18:28:20 <mattdm> or "hey, if we don't hear from you, we're putting this draft into place?"
18:28:44 <dcantrell> yeah, I think that works.  with a request for a response by the specific date
18:29:01 <spot> it is rarely the case that the lawyers will think well of you if you make a change without their input.
18:29:09 <spot> but you do you. :D
18:29:53 <spot> I happen to know this is something that they do care about.
18:30:01 <spot> (or at least, did)
18:30:17 <dcantrell> it might be worth noting the specific revisions in the request to legal
18:30:22 <spot> +1
18:30:22 <dcantrell> and perhaps why
18:31:30 <mattdm> yeah, good suggestions both. I have that, and I can put it in that form -- last time I did: "Hey, remember this thing from two years ago?" and I can put it more nicely.
18:32:08 <riecatnor[m]> cool, thank you mattdm for taking the next step there
18:32:37 <riecatnor[m]> #action mattdm to follow up with Legal wrt #198
18:33:13 <riecatnor[m]> next topic?
18:33:19 <mattdm> yeah
18:33:21 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/322
18:33:39 <riecatnor[m]> I think Kevin is working on documentation for this
18:33:47 <riecatnor[m]> We have it in the revamp docs checklist
18:33:57 <mattdm> Looks like this one is blocked on someone from the outreach revamp telling kevin where to put the documentation?
18:34:06 <mattdm> Maybe just add a link to that checklist here and close?
18:34:15 <riecatnor[m]> we connected in channel I believe, but yes that works mattdm
18:34:57 <mattdm> do you have that link handy?
18:34:58 <riecatnor[m]> I will comment
18:35:07 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Community_Outreach_Revamp_Knowledge_Base#Role_Handbooks
18:35:10 <mattdm> comment and close :)
18:35:20 <mattdm> while you do that I'll drop the next link...
18:35:27 <mattdm> https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/364
18:35:59 <mattdm> Ben commented in this one that he's taken the idea to aoife as a mini initiative, and suggests we close the ticket
18:36:09 <mattdm> which I am going to do unless someone objects real fast
18:36:22 <mattdm> (we can always reopen if it turns out we need to)
18:36:56 <mattdm> https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/377
18:37:18 <mattdm> This one is in "work item for mattdm" state, and I've just been putting it off. It's on my todo list.
18:37:27 <mattdm> #action mattdm to actually do this before next tickets meeting
18:37:47 <mattdm> https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/377
18:38:04 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/379
18:38:22 <riecatnor[m]> this is a "work item for riecatnor" lol
18:38:30 <mattdm> Any updates?
18:38:45 <riecatnor[m]> no, its in the same state as yours.
18:39:12 <riecatnor[m]> But, we did get some requests for event related things, so it has pushed itself up the list
18:39:22 <riecatnor[m]> I should be working on it in the next week or two
18:39:26 * mattdm uploaded an image: (272KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/fedora.im/99093de96f5a4c9700db78ec985ae1384fcdf065/image.png >
18:39:56 <riecatnor[m]> yeah, that, too.
18:39:57 <riecatnor[m]> sigh.
18:40:23 <mattdm> okay next :)
18:40:36 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/380
18:41:11 <riecatnor[m]> the item that we need isn't available yet.. so we couldn't do this before EOY, unfortunately.
18:41:29 <mattdm> This is just basically waiting for the thing to become available, right?
18:41:33 <riecatnor[m]> yep
18:42:31 * dcantrell is gonna wait for the AlpinePhone
18:42:33 <mattdm> I know Peter expressed some skepticism ... he feels like there's not as much qa help from the ARM folks we bought boards for at the end of 2020 as he would like and is skeptical here.
18:42:52 <riecatnor[m]> hmmm
18:42:57 <mattdm> dcantrell: I can barely tell if you're joking
18:43:08 <riecatnor[m]> maybe we could require a series of blog posts for those receiving hardware?
18:43:30 <dcantrell> mattdm: I am making a joke at the expense of pine and what became of it once it was abandoned and picked up by various people and renamed
18:43:49 <dcantrell> anyways.... can we also get hardware for fedora qa at the same time we get it for developers?
18:44:10 <mattdm> riecatnor: Yeah, I mentioned that somewhere earlier in the thread but we should make sure to repeat it
18:44:22 <mattdm> dcantrell: QA folks were included last time.
18:44:57 <mattdm> I think for some of this there's stuff going on that Peter just hasn't seen (on the KDE side more than the ARM side).
18:45:02 <dcantrell> ok, so could we also require a test plan/acceptance criteria for that hardware in addition to blogosphere stuff?
18:46:10 <mattdm> dcantrell: That's an interesting idea. Let me write up as a proposal
18:46:51 <dcantrell> I want to be clear that I'm not trying to attach some amount of measurable work as a stipulation to receive hardware.  I am thinking about the project supporting this stuff and what we need to do to actually make that happen.
18:46:59 <dcantrell> if we're serious about it
18:47:18 <mattdm> hmmm yeah I'm having trouble finding that line
18:47:26 <bytehackr> :) droping. Good Night.
18:47:32 <dcantrell> take care
18:47:40 <mattdm> It's also the case that we don't want to do "pay for work with hardware"... that's not the way
18:47:57 <mattdm> Got a wording suggestion?
18:48:24 <dcantrell> in the past what I see happen with stuff like this is the developers get hardware, something is put together, and is released to the world but not a lot of general fedora usage happens in the active community because no one has hardware.  there is usage from people at the edge of the community who want to try it out but then we can't really help them because we don't have the hw resources
18:48:54 <dcantrell> let's see
18:49:21 <dcantrell> I say you focus on the device itself and what we should consider required functionality to publish a release on that platform
18:49:35 <dcantrell> Fedora wants to support this device, so how do we get there
18:50:10 <dcantrell> if you want to help see this through in Fedora, here's what we need to happen....
18:50:54 <mattdm> actually dcantrell I'm looking at the clock and thinking maybe it's better to put what you just wrote in the ticket
18:50:58 <mattdm> and move on to the last few
18:51:09 <dcantrell> awww man
18:51:11 <dcantrell> ok
18:51:16 <mattdm> lol :)
18:52:05 <mattdm> #action dcantrell to put what he just wrote in the ticket, plus whatever more he was going to say. it was sounding good -- let's keep it for the record :)
18:52:15 <riecatnor[m]> dcantrell++
18:52:34 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/382
18:52:51 <mattdm> No one objected, so this is just a "mattdm todo".
18:52:54 <mattdm> Next :)
18:53:12 <riecatnor[m]> #llink https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/384
18:53:42 <mattdm> Same thing as previous really, but no one responded. Anyone have an opinion? If not, I'll make an update and drop the PR link in this ticket
18:54:06 <dcantrell> I don't have anything else to add to that
18:54:25 <riecatnor[m]> sounds good!
18:54:45 <riecatnor[m]> last one:
18:54:50 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/387
18:55:00 <riecatnor[m]> which is just an experiment? :)
18:55:14 <mattdm> Yes. But I'd like people's feedback.
18:55:36 <mattdm> And dcantrell ... what do you think about FESCo trying it out as well?
18:55:42 <dcantrell> you need a #! line in your script
18:56:11 <dcantrell> I can bring this up with fesco but I'm not sure there would be a lot of buy in
18:56:26 <dcantrell> fesco is fairly well oiled to direct discussions to the devel list and avoid using tickets for discussion
18:56:26 <mattdm> and riecatnor bt0 for mindshare?
18:57:45 <riecatnor[m]> it could work for Mindshare, I think some tickets/topics would be better than others
18:57:49 <mattdm> I'm not sure that's completely my experience, but I'm not at the stage of wanting to push this on anyone yet. :)
18:58:46 <mattdm> dcantrell: It's not intended to be run directly -- it contains a callback for fedora-messaging
18:59:24 <mattdm> riecatnor: Let me know if you'd like me to hook it up for Mindshare Committee
18:59:29 <mattdm> And we're at the hour :)
18:59:34 <mattdm> thank you everyone!
18:59:37 <riecatnor[m]> I may have asked this earlier, but could we control ticket by ticket if it generates a discussion thread or would it do them all
18:59:38 <dcantrell> mattdm: I will take a look at it more and bring it up with fesco
18:59:39 <riecatnor[m]> yes, thanks!
18:59:42 <dcantrell> thanks everyone
18:59:53 <mattdm> thanks dcantrell
19:00:03 <mattdm> riecatnor: It doesn't have the ability now but it _could_
19:00:08 <riecatnor[m]> #endmeeting