17:00:18 <pboyHB> #startmeeting fedora-server
17:00:18 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Dec 15 17:00:18 2021 UTC.
17:00:18 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:00:18 <zodbot> The chair is pboyHB. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
17:00:18 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:18 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-server'
17:00:27 <pboyHB> #topic Welcome / roll call
17:00:34 <pboyHB> Welcome to our Server WG IRC meeting!
17:00:43 <pboyHB> „Same procedure as every year“ We'll give a few minutes for folks to show up
17:00:56 <pboyHB> I’ll post the agenda in a few minutes.
17:01:14 <jwhimpel> .hello2
17:01:15 <zodbot> jwhimpel: jwhimpel 'John Himpel' <john@jlhimpel.net>
17:01:18 <jwhimpel> .hello
17:01:18 <zodbot> jwhimpel: (hello <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "hellomynameis $1".
17:02:20 <pboyHB> Hi jwhimpel, nice to meet you!
17:04:00 <salimma> .hi
17:04:01 <zodbot> salimma: salimma 'Michel Alexandre Salim' <michel@michel-slm.name>
17:04:26 <pboyHB> Hi Michel!
17:04:44 <pboyHB> I'll start to send the agenda
17:04:54 <pboyHB> #topic Agenda
17:05:01 <pboyHB> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/report/Meeting
17:05:08 <pboyHB> 1. Follow up actions
17:05:14 <pboyHB> 2. Scheduling for the New Year
17:05:22 <pboyHB> 3.  Review updated docs
17:05:29 <pboyHB> 4.  Review current Fedora Server Technical Specification
17:05:36 <pboyHB> 5. Using Ansible to install and configure Wildfly
17:05:42 <pboyHB> 6. Open Floor
17:05:50 <pboyHB> Any additional topic ?
17:06:22 <jwhimpel> test day for F36?
17:07:03 <pboyHB> Yes, but I think the change set is not complete yet?
17:07:35 <salimma> might be worth reaching out to QA and getting on the calendar? we can fill in the details later
17:07:46 <pboyHB> Does someone know when the list will close?
17:08:12 <salimma> yeah, one sec. IIRC for system wide changes it's sometime at the end of the month, self contained have more time
17:08:20 <pboyHB> salimma: Yes, we should discuss about that on our first meeting in 2022!
17:08:30 <salimma> https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-36/f-36-key-tasks.html
17:09:01 <salimma> infra change - Dec 22. mass rebuild change - Dec 28, system-wide, Dec 28, self-contained: Jan 18
17:09:12 <pboyHB> And we have an issue: https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/64
17:10:54 <pboyHB> Our next meeting should be January 19. Then the list should be complete.
17:11:00 <salimma> pboyHB: can we have a link to the mailing list discussion?
17:11:01 <salimma> (on the issue, I mean)
17:12:21 <salimma> yeah. note that we'll have to trawl the wiki for the list of changes, as it might take a couple of days extra before Ben Cotton announces a change (and FESCo might not finish accepting/rejecting changes for a few weeks after)
17:12:23 <pboyHB> salima: I don't have it at hand. Will post it afterwards on mailing list and my report about the meeting
17:13:15 <salimma> pboyHB: no worries, let's also edit the pagure issue and point to the list archive URL so people can follow along
17:13:38 <pboyHB> salimma: OK, that's the better idea.
17:14:39 <pboyHB> salimma: Without provoking your anger ( :-) ) May I ask you, could you prepare a list of items important for us?
17:16:17 <salimma> what anger? ;). um, I'll try and help with this, but I think everyone who has use cases they're interested in should chime in
17:16:47 <pboyHB> Yes, but an initial list would be helpfull.
17:17:07 <salimma> sure, I'll try and figure something out
17:17:25 <pboyHB> #action salimma will prepare am initial list of changes important for server edition.
17:17:47 <pboyHB> I switch to nest topic?
17:17:59 <pboyHB> #topic Scheduling for the New Year
17:17:59 <salimma> sounds good
17:18:06 <pboyHB> #proposed  Next meeting and first meeting in 2022: Wednesday, January 19 17:00 UTC
17:18:14 <pboyHB> So w'll skip January 5 due to vacation season.
17:18:20 <pboyHB> Alternative proposals? Objections?
17:18:39 <mowest[m]> I appreciate that skip, I will just be getting back from travels.
17:18:42 <salimma> +1
17:19:09 <pboyHB> #agreed Next meeting and first meeting in 2022: Wednesday, January 19 17:00 UTC
17:19:22 <pboyHB> I skipped a topic. Just anouncements
17:19:27 <eseyman> .hello eseyman
17:19:28 <zodbot> eseyman: eseyman 'Emmanuel Seyman' <emmanuel@seyman.fr>
17:19:32 <pboyHB> #topic Follow up actions
17:19:41 <pboyHB> #info action: mowest and pboyHB modify the old SIG page as agreed (2021-12-01,#59) DONE
17:19:48 <pboyHB> #info action: mowest and pboyHB continue to migrate the wiki pages  WORK IN PROGRESS
17:19:57 <pboyHB> #info action: eseyman hit hackmd this week and comment on tech spec (2021-12-01,#58) DONE
17:20:05 <pboyHB> Any other open action  that I missed?
17:20:39 <pboyHB> Obviously none
17:20:49 <pboyHB> #topic Review updated docs
17:21:02 <pboyHB> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/69
17:21:11 <pboyHB> We need reviewer for 3 articles.
17:21:23 <pboyHB> Proposals?
17:22:17 <eseyman> I want 08 !
17:22:39 <pboyHB> eseyman: Welcome and thanks!
17:23:36 <mowest[m]> I think I could review 05. and ask questions if there is something in there that I don't understand.
17:23:49 <mowest[m]> Is that one of the ones you want reviewed?
17:24:53 <pboyHB> mowest: YES, 05 needs a review. And asking questions is helpful, too. Some times one takes important details for granted
17:24:56 <salimma> I can review 07
17:25:07 <salimma> huh, for 06, we still support Xen? interesting
17:25:09 <pboyHB> salimma: +1
17:25:17 <mowest[m]> I will review 05 then.
17:25:36 <pboyHB> salimma: yes, it is installable
17:25:51 <pboyHB> mowest: +1
17:26:29 <pboyHB> OK, I'll update the table after our meeting and ask on mailing list for additional support.
17:26:51 <pboyHB> #topic Review current Fedora Server Technical Specification
17:27:00 <pboyHB> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/58
17:27:26 <pboyHB> Thanks to eseyman for the initial comments!
17:27:29 <pboyHB> Floor is open.
17:28:46 <eseyman> I'm not sure what I was expecting when I started reviewing but I was surprised that we call out as much as we do the different tech stacks we promote
17:29:35 <eseyman> I think we should expect to review this document every 3/4 releases to make sure it stays current
17:29:38 <eseyman> eof
17:29:53 <mowest[m]> pboyHB: I did look at the section that you would like me to cover for the wiki transfer. I feel comfortable working on it, but noticed that I need to re wrap my brain around the editing work flow using pagure and git. I'm hoping to put more time into this week still.
17:29:54 <pboyHB> eseyman: +1
17:30:25 <pboyHB> mowest: +1
17:31:02 <pboyHB> regarding architectures: currently we promote x86_64 and aarch 64.
17:31:46 <pboyHB> But I haven't met. someone, who is using aarch64, besides on SBC.
17:32:13 <eseyman> kwizart: don't you have a aarch64 server?
17:32:31 <mowest[m]> If we have questions during the reviewing process, what is the best place to reach out these days? Still the mailing list? Or here in chat.fedora "Fedora Server"? Or someplace else?
17:33:26 <pboyHB> +mowest[m]: I think mailing list or private mail. And then determine a chat.
17:33:43 <mowest[m]> Ok, thanks.
17:33:55 <eseyman> mowest[m]: I would prefer the mailing list. Second favourite would be the IRC channel
17:34:10 <salimma> pboyHB: oh, for those new to reviewing (like me) how do we communicate feedback? I suppose commenting on the Pagure issue?
17:34:35 <pboyHB> yes, pagure issue.
17:34:56 <pboyHB> Or a pull request.
17:35:07 <salimma> yeah, given the geographic spread it's probably hard to reach people on IRC/Matrix. The one exception is with big channels like devel and infra
17:36:16 <mowest[m]> eseyman: the chat.fedoraproject.org matrix room "Fedora Server" links to the irc channel I believe, right? I've kind of switched to chat.fedora after the whole freenode thing since I don't keep a irc connection live at all times.
17:36:27 <salimma> mowest: yes they are all bridged
17:36:40 <pboyHB> salimma: Yes, but you can arrange a suitable date for chat by mail.
17:36:57 <salimma> there's the '.seen' command that's quite useful too
17:37:23 <pboyHB> Sometimes a chat is helpful because of the "turn around" time
17:37:47 <salimma> but note that if you don't set up your nick on the IRC side, if you're on Matrix, on IRC you're 'nick[m]'
17:39:11 <pboyHB> Regarding technical spec: I think the section File system needs a lot of care. How will we proceed?
17:42:30 <salimma> ah, link?
17:43:04 <pboyHB> salimma:  https://hackmd.io/qBGmKuZPQ5OloAec3_Nh3w#File-system
17:43:08 <mowest[m]> pboyHB: I'm not familiar with technical specs in my profession, but do you mean in the files the lack of mention of other file systems? With Workstation's move to Btrfs, it could be mentioned, even though this perhaps not the preferred default at this time for server?
17:43:33 <mowest[m]> Is that what you mean or something else?
17:43:37 <eseyman> it is very vague, at the moment
17:44:10 <salimma> the encryption part - encryption is available, right, just not enabled by default? (like in other Fedora variants)
17:44:17 <pboyHB> +mowest[m]: I mean, the current description is outdated, it describes a plan. But we have already a working implementation.
17:44:50 <mowest[m]> Oh, so we need to consider a new plan to work towards?
17:44:52 <pboyHB> salimma: I can't remember ever having found something with encryption during installation.
17:45:11 <salimma> agreed with mowest, mentioning Btrfs even though it's not the default will probably preempt questions from users. mention that users can select it if they want but the default is still XFS
17:45:15 <pboyHB> +mowest[m]: Or a proper description what we have.
17:45:30 <pboyHB> salimma: +1
17:45:45 <salimma> pboyHB: let me double check. but unless Anaconda in the server ISO is super weird, it should be an option when partitioning
17:46:14 <pboyHB> salimma: That can be, yes.
17:46:52 <pboyHB> Proposal: I'll transfer the description I made in the installation guide and we discuss it on our first Febbruary meeting.
17:47:14 <salimma> since it's still in hackmd -- do we want to crowdsource this and anyone here can help flesh out the Filesystem part for now?
17:48:23 <pboyHB> salimma: Yes, everyone can and any WG member should. But maybe, we need a starting point?
17:49:22 <pboyHB> Just a note: 10 mins left.
17:49:37 <salimma> yeah. If you prefer moving it to docs first before we start editing, that's fine with me too, we just want to make sure people don't edit the wrong doc right?
17:49:41 <salimma> but yeah let's move on
17:50:38 <pboyHB> salima: I will take the docs description to hackmd, so we can discuss, comment and modify on hackmd
17:50:55 <salimma> +1
17:51:33 <pboyHB> #action pboy will modify the section File system according the installation guide. Discussion in February.
17:52:08 <pboyHB> Another big topic are the roles.
17:52:59 <pboyHB> I think we should replace it with Ansible.
17:54:04 <eseyman> I'ld like to see us link roles and Ansible playbooks
17:54:12 <eseyman> or roles and Ansible roles
17:54:16 <pboyHB> Probably we should replace Section "Supported roles" with "Supported capabilities"
17:54:38 <salimma> roles are sort of legacy, right? Trying to remember what smooge said about it
17:54:43 <mowest[m]> Just glanced at "roles" I don't remember those from my last Fedora server install. I'm guessing this passed away from the Anaconda installer, and as you mentioned probably better to have Ansible playbooks fill this role.
17:55:04 <salimma> if they still work, perhaps describe them as legacy and steer users towards Ansible as preferred
17:55:26 <pboyHB> Yes, roles are outdated. The concept was discarded some years ago.
17:55:53 <pboyHB> As far as I know we have no roles and no role support.
17:56:32 <mowest[m]> If it is discarded and you can't install Fedora Server today with a "role" than I'm in favor of dropping that section completely from the tech doc and put a plan into the doc that speaks about Ansible.
17:56:43 <pboyHB> Just a note: 4 Mins left.
17:57:19 <pboyHB> We should decide how to proceed.
17:57:20 <eseyman> +1 for mowest[m]'s suggestion
17:57:23 <salimma> yeah, if the doc is just wrong on this then nix it
17:57:29 <salimma> +1
17:57:57 <pboyHB> #agreed: Section about roles will be dropped
17:58:54 <pboyHB> But we should define what capabilities we will include, i.d. Domain Controller, etc.
17:59:51 <pboyHB> #proposal We start a list of supported capabilities / functions and discuss on mailing list and pagure
18:00:03 <mowest[m]> +1
18:00:20 <pboyHB> #agreed We start a list of supported capabilities / functions and discuss on mailing list and pagure
18:00:33 <pboyHB> Our time is  up now.
18:00:50 <pboyHB> Unfortunately, we missed Wildfly again.
18:01:00 <mowest[m]> Thanks pboyHB for running a great meeting again.
18:01:00 <jwhimpel> :-(
18:01:25 <pboyHB> Proposal: first meeting nextyear first Wildfly topic, second F36 preparation
18:01:46 <salimma> +1
18:01:50 <mowest[m]> +1
18:02:25 <pboyHB> #agreed first meeting next year: 1. Wildfly & Ansible  topic, 2. F36 preparation
18:02:54 <pboyHB> So we are up now. A happy new year for all!
18:03:07 <salimma> pboyHB++ thanks for hosting this
18:03:12 <salimma> happy holidays everyone!
18:03:37 <pboyHB> #endmeeting