17:00:15 <bcotton_> #startmeeting Council (2021-04-29)
17:00:15 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Apr 29 17:00:15 2021 UTC.
17:00:15 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:00:15 <zodbot> The chair is bcotton_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:15 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:15 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council_(2021-04-29)'
17:00:23 <bcotton_> #meetingname council
17:00:23 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council'
17:00:40 <bcotton_> #chair bookwar dcantrell jwf riecatnor spot mattdm sumantrom marianab bt0
17:00:40 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton_ bookwar bt0 dcantrell jwf marianab mattdm riecatnor spot sumantrom
17:00:45 <bcotton_> #topic Introductions, Welcomes
17:01:05 <riecatnor> .hello riecatnor
17:01:05 <zodbot> riecatnor: riecatnor 'Marie Nordin' <mnordin@redhat.com>
17:01:12 <bt0> .hello bt0dotninja
17:01:13 <zodbot> bt0: bt0dotninja 'Alberto Rodriguez Sanchez' <hotgalan@gmail.com>
17:01:18 <dcantrell> .hello2
17:01:19 <zodbot> dcantrell: dcantrell 'David Cantrell' <dcantrell@redhat.com>
17:01:20 <jwf> .hello jflory7
17:01:24 <zodbot> jwf: jflory7 'Justin W. Flory' <foss@jwf.io>
17:01:28 <marianab[m]> .hello marianab
17:01:29 <zodbot> marianab[m]: marianab 'None' <marianaballa848@gmail.com>
17:01:57 <jwf> Worth noting that I think siddharthvipul will replace me in the chair list after this meeting 🙂
17:02:19 <bcotton_> jwf: ok
17:02:24 <spot> .hello spot
17:02:25 <zodbot> spot: spot 'Tom Callaway' <spotrh@gmail.com>
17:02:36 <bcotton_> i wasn't sure if you were transitioning at the release day or when the election cycle concludes
17:03:29 <jwf> Yeah we never figured that out!
17:03:55 <jwf> Well, I guess today is as good as any for a hand-off, although I forgot to tell siddharthvipul about this meeting time :D
17:03:56 * bt0 is taking notes
17:04:00 <mattdm> I am here. Was just distracted. I'll stop being distracted now :)
17:04:08 * mattdm he says, optistically
17:04:22 <bcotton_> #action mattdm to stop being distracted
17:04:32 <bcotton_> jwf:  you're just trying to avoid the F2F ;p
17:04:50 <jwf> lolol. I thought I was already on deck for that one anyways.
17:05:03 <sumantro> .hello sumantrom
17:05:03 <zodbot> sumantro: sumantrom 'Sumantro Mukherjee' <sumukher@redhat.com>
17:06:07 <bcotton_> okay, let's get to it
17:06:09 <bcotton_> #topic Today's agenda
17:06:15 <bcotton_> #info Election Interview Questions - Council (F34)
17:06:16 <bcotton_> #info New objective: Websites & Apps Community Revamp
17:06:18 <bcotton_> #info Debuginfod By Default Change proposal
17:06:19 <bcotton_> #info Your topics here!
17:06:35 <bcotton_> #topic Election Interview Questions - Council (F34)
17:06:37 <bcotton_> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/366
17:06:54 <bcotton_> we don't have to solve this one today, but i wanted to get the discussion going
17:07:14 <bcotton_> jwf proposed an additional question in the ticket, which i offered my opinion on. what about everyone else?
17:07:32 <mattdm> I am with you on your opinion in the commen there, except stronger.
17:07:57 <bcotton_> so "00"? :-)
17:08:03 <bcotton_> that's twice the zero
17:08:18 <dcantrell> like a roulette wheel
17:08:22 <jwf> I am not sure I totally agree with the comment, because it is important to me as a member of the community to understand how someone would handle situations like this, because they really do happen in real life.
17:08:26 <jwf> But I get the point made there
17:08:30 <jwf> And don't want to make too scary of a question
17:08:41 <jwf> Still thinking on that feedback for now
17:08:43 <mattdm> -1, really. I don't want to make this election into a referendum on Stallman and the FSF, and I'm 100000% sure that's what would happen
17:09:15 <bt0> yes, that will happen
17:09:18 <mattdm> We did our thing, Debian did their general resolution thing, time to worry about other things
17:09:18 <jwf> I think I need to recenter the question in a different way
17:09:19 <jwf> I'll redact what is there and come back with something else.
17:09:26 <mattdm> jwf thanks
17:09:35 <bcotton_> jwf: i get that. i wonder if making it more general would help. something like "how should the Fedora Council balance our focus on the mission while also addressing the broader concerns that affect the inclusivenss of our community"
17:09:42 <mattdm> I'm in general in favor of the default questions we have
17:09:55 <riecatnor> bcotton_, I was trying to come up with something similar to that. Generalizing it
17:09:56 <jwf> Yeah… basically what I was going for bcotton_
17:10:06 <mattdm> Maybe rephrase the "next five years" question. I have a suggestion for that i'll put in the ticket.
17:10:28 <bcotton_> i think if we drop any mentions of specific issues, my uneasiness goes away
17:10:48 <bcotton_> mattdm: i'm also in favor of the questions we've used the last few times around
17:11:17 <bcotton_> honestly, i'm not sure the questions matter all that much. i think the elections tend to be reputational as opposed to based on any specific answers to the interview questions
17:11:26 <jwf> Centering the contemporary issue is not a hill I intend to plant my feet on :)
17:11:54 <jwf> Hmm, I disagree. For me as an individual community member, the interviews are one of the single most-important factors for me in elections.
17:12:03 <jwf> But maybe this a bikeshed
17:12:24 <bcotton_> i don't have the numbers handy, but i know we've seen more ballots cast than page views on the interviews
17:12:58 <bcotton_> which may be that some views aren't counted (because they've been reproduced elsewhere or something) or that you're more conscientious than the average voter
17:13:06 <jwf> Elections also cause a surge in CommBlog page views each cycle too :) So evidently there is a group that reads them
17:13:29 <jwf> At least, when I was editor-in-chief
17:13:31 <jwf> It's been a while since I really studied the WordPress stats
17:13:54 <bcotton_> yeah, there's definitely a big jump. but generally not enough to say "most voters read the interview"
17:14:16 <bcotton_> i'm thinking that the integration with discourse (thanks, mattdm) will help with that a lot
17:14:39 <jwf> I digress :)
17:14:47 <mattdm> I for one, read commblog a lot more.
17:14:57 <mattdm> So from THAT point of view that's a complete success :)
17:15:28 <bcotton_> woohoo
17:15:49 <bcotton_> okay, so! any other thoughts on the interview questions for now?
17:16:21 <mattdm> i distractd myself and wrote a refresh of the "next five years" in the ticket
17:17:00 <mattdm> other than that I'm ready to move on :)
17:17:06 * bcotton_ resets the "It has been __ minutes since mattdm was last distracted" sign
17:17:19 <bcotton_> #topic New objective: Websites & Apps Community Revamp
17:17:21 <bcotton_> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/365
17:17:36 <mattdm> omg i have a new eink project to work on
17:17:46 <bcotton_> "Historically" we send Objective proposals through the policy change policy process
17:18:09 <bcotton_> so i wanted ot put this on the agenda in case there's any "OMG" feedback from the Council before we start that
17:18:33 <bcotton_> i left a not-omg comment in the ticket just before the meeting started
17:18:50 <bcotton_> but i figure monday we'll publish the commblog post to start the community comment period unless someone objects
17:18:53 <mattdm> I helped significantly in the development of the logic model here, so I'd really appreciate feedback from... not me.
17:19:02 <mattdm> I feel non-impartial :)
17:20:26 <bcotton_> i thought it seemed....logical
17:20:46 <jwf> bcotton_: I am finding your ticket comment a little confusing
17:20:47 <riecatnor> same, I had a lot of input lol. I like your point about reducing repos/places things live
17:21:01 <jwf> Retirement of the fp-websites repo as an outcome, but separate repos is more difficult to maintain?
17:21:25 <riecatnor> jwf, isn't there a repo change underway already?
17:21:33 <bcotton_> Yes, because right now we're split between fedora-websites and websites/fedora-web
17:21:43 <bcotton_> the latter is getfedora and the former is...everything else
17:22:38 <bcotton_> so everything thats in fedora-websites should end up in fedora-web/websites so that we have one repo and one tool chain
17:22:51 <bcotton_> there was an intern working on that last summer(?) but it did not get completed
17:23:15 <bcotton_> i'll edit the comment to move the context out of my head and onto the page
17:23:29 <mattdm> +1 to bcotton_'s point
17:25:34 <jwf> Whoa. Five minutes of chat history just synced to Matrix all at once.
17:25:47 * mattdm is looking forward to our own matrix!
17:25:54 <bcotton_> i love when that happens :-)
17:25:56 <jwf> I thought it had seemed a little quiet lol
17:26:25 <jwf> bcotton_: Oh! There are two repos, pagure.io/fedora-websites and pagure.io/websites/fedora-web ??
17:26:28 <jwf> That is… confusing
17:26:39 <bt0> a lot
17:27:00 <bcotton_> yeah, it is awful :-(
17:27:13 <jwf> I wasn't conscious of the difference until now 😅
17:27:25 <jwf> So, yes, definitely agreed on retirement/deprecation
17:27:39 <mattdm> Anyway I think it's a good goal but I don't think it needs to be part of the objective per se
17:27:56 <jwf> That is a good outcome and I think fits in with the work we are thinking about with Spins/Labs… no?
17:28:14 <jwf> Maybe not 100% done, but we can make a small dent with Spins/Labs sites
17:29:04 <mattdm> Any other bigger comments on this objective?
17:29:17 <riecatnor> Yes, I have something
17:29:31 <riecatnor> it would be nice to get a support person involved with the objective that isn't myself or mattdm
17:29:37 <mattdm> yesssssss.
17:29:59 <mattdm> We talked about having a mentor / support person for each objective -- the "council buddy"
17:30:13 <mattdm> jwf has been involved, but 1) is overcommitted already and 2) isn't on the council coming up
17:31:17 <riecatnor> another potential pool of support people would be folks who showed interest in the program management team
17:31:31 <bcotton_> riecatnor: do you want to block sending this through the process until that person is identified
17:31:51 <bcotton_> riecatnor: i guess it depends on what you mean by "support" here, because i think you and mattdm are talking about separate things
17:31:57 <jwf> It would be nice to have another formal Council buddy or support person.
17:32:16 <bcotton_> but ramya is joining the pgm team, so that assignement is straightforward for me :-)
17:32:20 <jwf> also a fair point by bcotton_
17:32:21 <bt0> Sounds like the perfect opportunity for me to become more involved in my new role on the council.
17:32:26 <riecatnor> I don't think it needs to block anything
17:32:28 <mattdm> bt0++
17:32:28 <zodbot> mattdm: Karma for bt0dotninja changed to 1 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:32:36 <riecatnor> bt0++
17:32:36 <zodbot> riecatnor: Karma for bt0dotninja changed to 2 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:32:40 <bcotton_> bt0++
17:32:42 <mattdm> bt0 perfect
17:32:42 <jwf> bt0++
17:32:42 <zodbot> jwf: Karma for bt0dotninja changed to 3 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:32:55 * mattdm hits the "it's official" gavel
17:32:56 <mattdm> thanks bt0
17:33:02 <bcotton_> bt0 is a natural choice since this is a very mindshare-y objective :-)
17:33:06 <jwf> hope you were hungry for cookies bt0 :)
17:33:07 <bt0> :)
17:33:19 <riecatnor> bt0, I will add you the weekly meeting invite, and share some docs with you. jwf is there a chat channel bt0 should be in?
17:33:24 <bt0> i love cookies
17:33:29 <jwf> #fedora-websites on IRC
17:33:33 <jwf> #fedora-websites:matrix.org on MAtrix
17:33:40 <jwf> No Telegram as of yet
17:34:10 <bcotton_> okay, i'll plan on getting this announced on monday so we can have the community comment period start
17:34:20 <bt0> cool
17:34:37 <jwf> bcotton++ thanks!
17:34:37 <zodbot> jwf: Karma for bcotton changed to 1 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:34:46 <bcotton_> #action bcotton to prepare for Policy Change Policy announcement on Monday
17:35:04 <jwf> ooohhh I got Ben's first cookie for F34
17:35:11 <sumantro> bcotton++
17:35:11 <zodbot> sumantro: Karma for bcotton changed to 2 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:35:25 <bcotton_> jwf++ for giving me my first cookie of the cycle
17:35:31 <bcotton_> anything else before the next topic?
17:35:59 <bcotton_> #topic Debuginfod by Default Change proposal
17:36:01 <bcotton_> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DebuginfodByDefault
17:36:02 <bcotton_> From dcantrell FESCo would like the Council’s input on policy around enabling things like this by default. Our discussions led to privacy concerns and what data has to be shared with the external service to install debuginfo packages. If the Council is ok leaving this as a technical-only decision, FESCo is fine with that. But we do not want to make any assumptions around broader privacy and security policies.
17:36:21 <dcantrell> alright, this one may be homework for everyone
17:36:30 <dcantrell> so the link above describes the proposed change
17:37:04 <dcantrell> the feature would enable the debuginfod service by default which would allow developers to automatically have debuginfo packages found, downloaded, and installed
17:37:19 <mattdm> Are we wanting a council policy around this (either specific or general), or specific advice in this case?
17:37:23 <dcantrell> the concerns around this on our end were typical concerns about default enablement of phone-home services
17:37:47 <dcantrell> mattdm: ok with either.  basically we don't want to assume we can turn on stuff like this by default unless the council says "sure, knock yourself out"
17:38:04 <dcantrell> the discussion from our most recent meeting:  https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2021-04-27/fesco.2021-04-27-17.01.log.html
17:38:05 <sgallagh> mattdm: I think we'd like to address the specific case first (rather than what would likely be a much longer discussion around a general policy)
17:38:38 <bcotton_> do i understand correctly that this is functionally the same as doing a `dnf debuginfo-install`, just from a different server?
17:38:47 <bcotton_> and automatic, of course
17:39:00 <mattdm> My gut feeling suggestion for a general policy is: "Let's have the council review things like this individually for a while, until we get a sense of what our general policy _should_ be"
17:39:04 <sgallagh> bcotton_: There's a little more to it.
17:39:26 <dcantrell> for more details on how it works:  https://sourceware.org/elfutils/Debuginfod.html
17:39:26 <jwf> I am still reading but it sounds like there is centralized infrastructure. I am curious where the proposed Fedora debuginfod infrastructure would be hosted geographically. And how likely it is for a common user to run into use cases where they interact with that infrastructure from their local machines.
17:39:31 <sgallagh> But that's what it would generally look like to the end-user
17:39:34 <mattdm> bcotton_ installing debuginfo goes to the distributed mirror network and so we don't necessarily have a cenetralized place to see who has what installed
17:39:43 <mattdm> (to many people's disappointment!)
17:40:27 <sgallagh> Whereas with the debuginfod, we *do* get a pretty good sense that at least this software is installed and being used, because someone is looking for debug symbols.
17:40:28 <mattdm> We already have an automatic-problem-report question in initial setup in gnome, right?
17:40:41 <dcantrell> the main question is should stuff like this be enabled by default where a user reaction might be "hey, how do I turn that off?" vs. off by default where a user reaction might be "that sounds cool, how do I turn it on?"
17:41:32 <Eighth_Doctor> 👋
17:41:34 <bcotton_> honestly, my concern is less with the privacy aspect and more the surprise disk/network utilizaton aspect
17:41:57 <sgallagh> mattdm: Those proposing it suggested strongly that a simple toggle to enable or disable it would be difficult. I don't know the technical reason behind that.
17:42:04 <dcantrell> bcotton_: makes sense.  I feel like enabling by default might violate the "principle of least surprise" for new features
17:42:17 <jwf> me too
17:42:37 <mattdm> Is there a good place to have it turn on? Like, ask the question on first use?
17:42:43 <sgallagh> That kind of depends on whether you consider it to be a pleasant or unpleasant surprise.
17:42:59 <spot> it is not clear why upon first invocation of gdb when debuginfo files are missing, it could not prompt the user to enable the service.
17:43:01 <dcantrell> sgallagh: always assume people don't want changes they don't know about or understand
17:43:02 <sgallagh> I think many developers would be happy about it and some would not (and complain loudly)
17:43:05 <bcotton_> #link https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2597#comment-728550
17:43:14 <bcotton_> that's the push back on consent prompt
17:43:19 <dcantrell> spot: that was suggested as a way to make it opt-in
17:43:45 <sgallagh> spot: tl;dr: we could do that in gdb, but that's not the only tool affected by this Change
17:44:00 <spot> it would admittedly be nice if we had a way to configure such features in a global fashion (e.g. firstboot).
17:44:06 <spot> but thats a whole different battle
17:44:23 <dcantrell> spot: for things like this we should have a secondboot....  :)
17:45:01 <bcotton_> so if i read https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DebuginfodByDefault#Scope correctly, there's a system-wide file that controls behavior
17:45:20 <bcotton_> which means an external tool (gnome-initial-setup, for example) could configure it
17:45:26 <spot> i mean, if we had a utility that ran on install or major system upgrade and prompted the user to enable new things (btrfs compression, Debuginfod)...
17:45:41 <mattdm> Yeah, but I don't want initial-setup to become a huge maze of questions
17:45:55 <dcantrell> mattdm, spot:  see YaST
17:46:35 <bcotton_> from a policy perspective, i think this is a technical question for FESCo to solve. my personal opinion is that it should be opt-in, but i'd be fine with doing that as part of anaconda or the appropriate firstboot interfaces
17:46:36 <dcantrell> bcotton_: that is my understanding, sgallagh: is there anything else besides the /etc/profile.d file and the debuginfo-client package(s)?
17:47:50 <sgallagh> I'm not sure; fche made it seem like there was more to it, but I can't find anything in a quick google search
17:48:01 <fche> hi
17:48:10 <bcotton_> welcome fche!
17:48:33 <sgallagh> If it really is that simple, then perhaps another option would be to add a Cockpit feature to enable/disable it. (And/or a linux-system-roles Ansible role)
17:48:40 <dcantrell> we do enable yum repos by default, so it's not really a stretch to see the debuginfod service enabled by default for devel tools.  if the council doesn't see any alarming things with this proposal from a non-technical standpoint, we can go back to nitpicking about it in fesco
17:49:27 <spot> it is not clear to me what the non-technical concern is
17:49:29 <mattdm> I do not see this particular instance as being alarming
17:49:39 <bcotton_> proposed #agreed The Debuginfod By Default proposal is a technical matter that the Council leaves to FESCo to decide
17:50:00 <mattdm> While we are privacy-sensitive, Fedora Linux is not designed to be a stealth operating system
17:50:33 <sgallagh> spot: Mostly that it increases the amount of data we would be potentially gathering.
17:50:36 <dcantrell> yeah, that's the _other_ Fedora distribution done by the underground secret group of robot elders
17:50:57 <sgallagh> I agree, I don't think it's critical, but since the question was raised, we felt it best to have the Council make that call
17:51:08 <mattdm> Eh, I'd rather say: "We're okay with the level of information that is shared here. The rest is a technical matter for FESCo."
17:51:14 <mattdm> dcantrell: Qubes :)
17:51:54 <bcotton_> proposed #agreed Council is okay with the level of information shared by the Debuginfod By Default proposal. The rest is a technical matter for FESCo to decide
17:52:04 <dcantrell> mattdm, bcotton_: sounds reasonable to me
17:52:07 <dcantrell> bcotton_: +1
17:52:22 <mattdm> +1 to self
17:52:23 <sgallagh> I don't get a vote, but I'm in favor.
17:52:25 <bcotton_> last call to object
17:52:30 <bt0> +1
17:52:42 <bcotton_> #agreed Council is okay with the level of information shared by the Debuginfod By Default proposal. The rest is a technical matter for FESCo to decide
17:52:50 <jwf> +1
17:52:53 <bcotton_> #topic New Code of Conduct
17:52:55 <bcotton_> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/145#comment-726938
17:52:56 <riecatnor> +1
17:52:56 <bcotton_> nothing to discuss here, just a reminder to riecatnor bookwar dcantrell bt0 sumantrom marianab to vote in ticket
17:52:58 <dcantrell> sgallagh: I don't think I'm a voting member either, I'm over here in DC land
17:53:13 <bcotton_> #topic Next meeting
17:53:15 <bcotton_> #info The next regular business meeting is Thursday 13 May
17:53:23 <bcotton_> #topic Do we have anything to announce?
17:53:25 <bcotton_> #info This is a regular check to make sure we're communicating to the contributor (via CommBlog) and user (via Magazine) communities
17:53:31 <bcotton_> #info Previously announced
17:53:33 <bcotton_> #info The Fedora Linux 34 Release Party is tomorrow and Saturday https://app.hopin.com/events/fedora-linux-34-release-party/
17:53:34 <bcotton_> #info Elections nominations are now open https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/f34-elections-nominations-now-open/
17:53:36 <bcotton_> #info Nest CfP is open https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/announcing-dates-cfp-for-nest-with-fedora/
17:53:38 <mattdm> dcantrell: you are a voting member
17:53:38 <bcotton_> anything new?
17:53:55 <dcantrell> mattdm: awesome! I love voting!
17:54:04 <mattdm> dcantrell good news then :)
17:54:11 <riecatnor> woohoo, nest!
17:54:18 <mattdm> bcotton_: the nest CFP is new
17:54:35 <bcotton_> mattdm: no, it's previously announced because the post was published :-)
17:54:46 <riecatnor> A council panel session would be a good idea.
17:54:51 <bcotton_> BUT! i plan on submitting a Council ...
17:54:54 <bcotton_> yes...that :-)
17:54:56 <riecatnor> :P
17:55:06 <mattdm> :)
17:55:43 <riecatnor> suggestions from council for keynotes would be cool
17:56:06 <mattdm> ooh, yes. Let's make that official.
17:56:09 <bcotton_> do we have a particular theme we want keynotes to fit into this year?
17:56:15 <mattdm> Hey Council Members: your keynote suggestions, please!
17:56:55 <riecatnor> bcotton_, not as of this moment. Last year we had someone speak on diversity, someone on inclusive language, and someone on resilience
17:57:00 <jwf> Coming up with a theme first would help to narrow the field
17:57:01 <mattdm> In general, it's nice to have one "fun" keynote with someone doing something cool in the open source / open culture world
17:57:29 * bcotton_ notes that "Fun keynote" could also be pronounced "funky note"
17:57:32 <mattdm> and one serious one -- we've done impostor syndrome, diversity in tech, language matters, etc.
17:57:34 <sgallagh> I'd like to suggest that a big focus for Nest this year could be on Fedora's position in the new Fedora->CentOS Stream->RHEL pipeline.
17:57:35 <dcantrell> I would like to see a track about community participation, joining new groups, being a good communicator, understanding cultural and language differences....all of the soft skills that many of us sorely lack
17:57:48 <mattdm> dcantrell++
17:57:48 <zodbot> mattdm: Karma for dcantrel changed to 1 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:58:16 <sgallagh> dcantrell: Speak for yourself! I good communicator!
17:58:25 <dcantrell> sgallagh: :)
17:58:26 <jwf> dcantrell: I hear your point, although I do think Fedorans are, for the most part, better than average on those things :)
17:58:32 <jwf> lolol sgallagh
17:58:43 <riecatnor> always room for improvement in those areas :)
17:58:46 <sgallagh> jwf: There's an argument to be made that this is a "Survivor Fallacy"
17:59:00 <dcantrell> sorry, I don't mean to say we're all terrible at this.  but this is a skill area that I think requires ongoing practice and understanding.  everyone can be better, certainly as communities grow and expand
17:59:08 <sgallagh> We only see the folks that are good communicators and understanding because the others tend to get discouraged and disappear
17:59:18 <jwf> dcantrell: For sure 🙂
17:59:26 <jwf> dcantrell++
17:59:27 <zodbot> jwf: Karma for dcantrel changed to 2 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:59:39 <sgallagh> dcantrell++
17:59:39 <zodbot> sgallagh: Karma for dcantrel changed to 3 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:59:43 <jwf> sgallagh: Also a fair point too.
17:59:44 <dcantrell> so see, my topic suggestion needs some phrasing work (are we still doing phrasing?)
17:59:50 <bcotton_> dcantrell++
18:00:11 <mattdm> dcantrell :)
18:00:12 <riecatnor> dcantrell, I think I will need to do a follow up blog post
18:00:28 <dcantrell> riecatnor++
18:00:28 <zodbot> dcantrell: Karma for riecatnor changed to 5 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:00:34 <bcotton_> Okay, that's the top of the hour. No time for open floor, but we'll talk to each other a lot at the release party tomorrow/saturday
18:00:37 <bcotton_> thanks everyone!
18:00:43 <dcantrell> bcotton_++
18:00:48 <sgallagh> bcotton++
18:00:48 <zodbot> sgallagh: Karma for bcotton changed to 3 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:00:55 <dcantrell> bcotton++
18:00:55 <zodbot> dcantrell: Karma for bcotton changed to 4 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:01:04 <bt0> bcotton++
18:01:04 <zodbot> bt0: Karma for bcotton changed to 5 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:01:10 <bcotton_> #endmeeting