18:00:18 <bcotton_> #startmeeting Council (2021-03-04)
18:00:18 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Mar  4 18:00:18 2021 UTC.
18:00:18 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:00:18 <zodbot> The chair is bcotton_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:18 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:18 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council_(2021-03-04)'
18:00:19 <bcotton_> #meetingname council
18:00:19 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council'
18:00:21 <bcotton_> #chair bookwar dcantrell jwf riecatnor spot mattdm bcotton asamalik x3mboy sumantrom marianab
18:00:21 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton_ bookwar dcantrell jwf riecatnor spot mattdm bcotton asamalik x3mboy marianab sumantrom
18:00:22 <bcotton_> #topic Introductions, Welcomes
18:00:26 <dcantrell> .hello2
18:00:27 <zodbot> dcantrell: dcantrell 'David Cantrell' <dcantrell@redhat.com>
18:00:31 <mattdm> .hello2
18:00:32 <zodbot> mattdm: mattdm 'Matthew Miller' <mattdm@mattdm.org>
18:00:41 <mattdm> hi everyone!
18:00:51 <dcantrell> hello
18:00:58 <x3mboy> .hi
18:00:59 <zodbot> x3mboy: x3mboy 'Eduard Lucena' <eduardlucena@gmail.com>
18:01:07 * jwf|m waves
18:01:24 <mattdm> marie is on vacation this week, so she should not be showing up :)
18:01:25 <jwf|m> .hello jflory7
18:01:26 <zodbot> jwf|m: jflory7 'Justin W. Flory' <foss@jwf.io>
18:01:36 <sumantro> .hello2 sumantrom
18:01:39 <zodbot> sumantro: sumantro 'Sumantro Mukherjee' <sumantro@outlook.com>
18:02:24 <bookwar> .hello2
18:02:25 <zodbot> bookwar: bookwar 'Aleksandra Fedorova' <alpha@bookwar.info>
18:03:24 <spot> .hello2
18:03:25 <zodbot> spot: spot 'Tom Callaway' <spotrh@gmail.com>
18:03:43 <bcotton_> #topic Today's agenda
18:03:44 <bcotton_> #info Add the Fedora goal of having complete integrated system
18:03:45 <bcotton_> #info Trademark Approval Request: Shells.com
18:03:47 <bcotton_> #info Your topics here!
18:03:56 <mattdm> upcoming virtual face to face.
18:03:57 <bcotton_> #topic Add the Fedora goal of having complete integrated system
18:03:58 <bcotton_> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/280
18:04:00 <bcotton_> #info From vF2F: mattdm and bookwar to find a place to fit “upstream first” and then add in the contents of https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Objectives&oldid=2124
18:04:01 <bcotton_> #info previously: “We'll come back to this with exponential backoff”
18:04:04 <bcotton_> mattdm: ack
18:04:10 <mattdm> bookwar: anything? :)
18:04:29 <bookwar> no, only the guilt
18:04:33 <mattdm> same! :)
18:04:39 <bcotton_> yay guilt!
18:04:47 <mattdm> bcotton_: remind us again in two meetings? :)
18:05:01 <bcotton_> #info we will come back to this two meetings from now
18:05:08 <bcotton_> #topic Trademark Approval Request: Shells.com
18:05:10 <bcotton_> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/349
18:05:27 <bcotton_> so a few of us met with the shells.com folks earlier today
18:06:01 <bcotton_> there are some exciting possibilities for getting Fedora Linux on that platform with non-x86_64 arches and whatnot
18:06:21 <bcotton_> the main technical blocker right now is we want them to use the Fedora kernel
18:06:37 <bcotton_> also, we're going to start a team to maintain Shells images as spins
18:06:47 <bcotton_> mattdm, dcantrell anything you want add?
18:06:48 <marianab[m]> .hello marianab
18:06:53 <mattdm> and the reason they aren't doing that is that they are using a custom initrd which grows the filesystem
18:07:01 <dcantrell> we need to really make sure the SIG works for shells.com
18:07:12 <dcantrell> where we left in the meeting it sort of felt like that was left entirely on us
18:07:19 <mattdm> we have tech to do that, but they aren't familiar with it, so I suggest that as a first start for the SIG
18:07:32 <dcantrell> for it to work we do need to make sure we have some initial recruiting done for people to keep it going
18:07:39 <mattdm> dcantrell yeah I'm going to ping back with the person from their side tagged with it and offer some handholding
18:07:51 <dcantrell> mattdm: +1
18:07:53 <x3mboy> Too many exciting SIG and WG and too few time to devote to all
18:08:12 <dcantrell> the custom initrd and resizing to me sounded like they just need some help on using the fedora tools to do that
18:08:21 <mattdm> we definitely need to attract some people with enginineering experience around those tools
18:08:22 <dcantrell> I really don't think there's anything special going on with their setup
18:08:57 <dcantrell> promoting the non-x86_64 arches should be highlighted in the announcement(s)
18:09:17 <dcantrell> for me the idea of getting a Fedora system on power pickle or arrrrrrrrrrrrrm quickly is appealing
18:09:18 <mattdm> those will be running under emulation, rought?
18:09:26 <dcantrell> yeah, it's all under emulation
18:10:06 <mattdm> also the Shells.com indicated that they're willing to give comp accounts to people in the SIG, so there's some carrot here too
18:10:15 <dcantrell> I'm going to hypothesize that debugging on aarch64 in shells.com will be faster than fighting with something like a raspberry pi
18:10:30 <mattdm> probably!
18:10:31 <spot> dcantrell++
18:10:31 <zodbot> spot: Karma for dcantrel changed to 6 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:10:36 <dcantrell> mattdm: yes, that's very important to promote because no one is going to want to do this work or contribute in the blind
18:11:00 <jwf|m> dcantrell++
18:11:21 <mattdm> and not just blind, but without getting anything personally back, to be blunt.
18:11:31 <dcantrell> yeah, pretty much
18:11:42 <dcantrell> handing out an account does not really cost them a whole lot for what they will gain
18:12:44 <mattdm> I mean, it's cool to have Fedora in more places, and this is nifty, but I don't think it's going to be market-shattering, so it's a little different from the "we must work with the 90%-of-the-market-cloud-provider" in terms of _general_ benefit. So the specific benefits for contributors are really important.
18:13:03 <mattdm> And then if it really does take off, we will be in a good place.
18:13:23 <dcantrell> I agree.  They also seem interested in helping Fedora too.  The idea of a shells.com sponsored test day is interesting.
18:13:24 <mattdm> This might be a little bit "quiet part out loud", but it's honest :)
18:14:01 <mattdm> Yeah worth noting that they're some of the people behind the PIA vpn and who have sponsored Freenode for years.
18:14:12 <mattdm> So they've already been helping us out in other ways :)
18:14:15 <jwf|m> Nice
18:14:47 <bookwar> i am not sure SIG is the right format though
18:15:02 <bookwar> it doesn't look like they are going to be community-driven in their decisions
18:15:23 <dcantrell> they were open to the idea of the fedora community owning the Fedora images for shells.com
18:15:24 <bcotton_> they want to be
18:15:32 <mattdm> bookwar: our suggestion was a SIG around a spin or spins tailored for their environment. They actually _do_ want that to be community driven
18:16:06 <bookwar> but how do you define the goal? "Spin for shell.com" ? sounds not right to me
18:16:20 <bookwar> "Spin for aarch64 with ... features" ?
18:16:33 <mattdm> Why not? For a while the Cloud SIG goal was "make the best possible AWS image"
18:17:00 <mattdm> It's a specific-case spin, but... that's a thing spins can be.
18:17:05 <bookwar> ok, maybe i am out of touch there
18:17:19 <bookwar> I was thinking of Cloud to be a more generic think
18:17:22 <bookwar> thing*
18:17:57 <mattdm> I will avoid long disgression into history. Save for another time. :)
18:18:09 <bookwar> Anyway, i do agree providing the space for this work is nice. So I am just nitpicking on the choice of wording, but we can skip that.
18:18:20 <mattdm> :)
18:18:30 <bcotton_> anything else on this topic?
18:18:34 <mattdm> I think that's all
18:18:39 <x3mboy> I was testing the image and how it's now and it works pretty well
18:18:49 <x3mboy> So, I'm +1 to work with them in the SIG
18:19:03 <bcotton_> #topic Upcoming virtual face-to-face
18:19:16 <bcotton_> all yours, mattdm
18:20:50 <mattdm> Uh, yeah :)
18:21:10 <mattdm> So, this is scheduled for next week!
18:21:25 <mattdm> Show of hands for anyone who remembered this :)
18:21:29 <bcotton_> o/
18:21:34 <dcantrell> when next week?
18:21:54 <mattdm> It is 2-5pm US/Eastern
18:22:03 <dcantrell> days?
18:22:08 <mattdm> thursday only
18:22:17 <x3mboy> o/
18:22:23 <bookwar> o/
18:22:24 <mattdm> This is to replace the meetup we weould normally have at DevConf
18:22:33 <mattdm> okay, excellent remembering y'all :)
18:22:46 <mattdm> Generally, the November meeting is the big multi-day thing and this is a quicker check-in
18:22:53 * spot remembers nothing! muahahaha
18:23:00 <bookwar> thanks to Ben for setting up the calendar invite )
18:23:31 <mattdm> To be perfectly candid, I do not have a defined goal going into this right now, but I promise a meaningful and useful agenda by early next week.
18:23:47 <bookwar> let discuss the survey again?
18:24:12 <mattdm> I think we'll mostly focus on existing issues that need to be tackled, a little socializing, and some future brainstorming
18:24:22 <mattdm> yes, survey is a good example of existing issues
18:24:38 <mattdm> Nothing super big and strategy-shaking. We'll save that for November :)
18:24:52 <mattdm> OMG I hope we can actually have that be an in-person meeting.
18:25:28 <mattdm> If anyone has suggestions for more things we should put on the agenda, let me know
18:25:32 <mattdm> now or in the next few days
18:26:13 <mattdm> I think everyone _should_ have that calendar invite.
18:26:52 <dcantrell> I do
18:27:07 <dcantrell> and looking at my other calendar I actually have it in there already
18:27:07 <x3mboy> I do too
18:27:23 <mattdm> cool
18:27:42 <x3mboy> I'm not focusing here
18:27:48 <x3mboy> How many topics are left?
18:28:02 <mattdm> open floor :)
18:28:07 <x3mboy> Cool
18:28:18 <x3mboy> I really have to focus, so I will go out
18:28:23 <x3mboy> See you next week
18:28:24 <x3mboy> o/
18:28:47 <bcotton_> anything else on this one?
18:29:04 <bcotton_> #info If you have agenda ideas, let mattdm know
18:29:07 <mattdm> see you x3mboy!
18:30:05 <mattdm> i have an open floor item I guess
18:30:10 <bcotton_> #topic Next meeting
18:30:12 <bcotton_> #info The next Fedora Council video meeting is Thursday 11 March featuring Máirín Duffy talking about the logo refresh
18:30:13 <bcotton_> #info The Q1 Council virtual face-to-face is Thursday 11 March
18:30:15 <bcotton_> #info The next regular business meeting is Thursday 18 March
18:30:27 <bcotton_> #topic Do we have anything to announce?
18:30:29 <bcotton_> #info This is a regular check to make sure we're communicating to the contributor (via CommBlog) and user (via Magazine) communities
18:30:34 <bcotton_> i'm not aware of any pending announcements
18:31:37 <mattdm> I could maybe count my open floor item as an announcement even though it's not really new
18:31:49 <mattdm> and is in fact something we're communicating through the commblog
18:32:18 <mattdm> ben ghost-wrote me a post about my "call it Fedora Linux" crusade and that's going out ... tomorrow(?)
18:32:41 <mattdm> and I submitted this change: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Fedora_Linux_in_os-release
18:32:46 <bcotton_> Tuesday
18:32:51 <mattdm> Tuesday is the new tomorrow.
18:32:59 <bcotton_> #info Tuesday is the new tomorrow
18:33:00 <mattdm> I knew it was one of those "T" days.
18:33:48 <bcotton_> Febturday
18:34:10 <mattdm> So anyway, please do your best to support me in using "Fedora Linux" instead of plain "Fedora" when referring to the OS or distribution or package collection
18:34:43 <dcantrell> I will try but it's going to take a while to untrain myself
18:34:54 <bcotton_> #info please do your best to use "Fedora Linux" instead of plain "Fedora" when referring to the OS or distribution or package collection
18:34:55 <mattdm> You don't (bcotton_!) need to "interject" to correct anyone, just start using it differently
18:34:56 <dcantrell> we already went one way on the name, now we're adding things back to the name
18:35:09 <mattdm> dcantrell: yeah, me too.
18:35:13 <bcotton_> dcantrell: it is very awkward the first 100 or so times
18:35:25 <Southern_Gentlem> i will try
18:35:31 <dcantrell> I'm going to go ahead and skip this rename and just go back to calling it Fedora Core
18:35:48 <mattdm> dcantrell: that joke is permitted. the one about Fedora GNU/Linux is not. :)
18:35:54 <mattdm> #jokepolice
18:36:00 <mattdm> dcantrell++
18:36:01 <dcantrell> wait, what really?
18:36:02 <mattdm> Southern_Gentlem++
18:36:05 <Southern_Gentlem> dcantrell, no Fedora Community
18:36:35 <mattdm> dcantrell: (no actual joke police)
18:36:51 <Southern_Gentlem> mattdm,  i will edit my blog post to say Fedora Linux updated iso
18:37:00 <mattdm> Southern_Gentlem awesome, thanks!
18:37:04 <bcotton_> Southern_Gentlem++
18:37:40 <mattdm> Basically, this helps us focus on the project as a community not just some bits, and _also_ makes it easier to talk about things we do that aren't those specific bits.
18:37:46 <dcantrell> mattdm: are we renaming editions?  Fedora Linux Workstation?  Fedora Linux Server?
18:38:13 <mattdm> dcantrell: no, those can stay, because they're already "Fedora __________"
18:38:40 <bcotton_> the blog post answers that question, but matthew is very excited
18:38:51 <mattdm> bcotton_ :)
18:38:57 <dcantrell> I will hold my questions until the blog post is live
18:39:11 <dcantrell> I also look forward to LWN's write up on the name
18:39:17 <mattdm> it's good to hear the questions :)
18:40:01 <mattdm> anything else?
18:41:28 <mattdm> I guess not :)
18:42:41 <mattdm> bcotton_ you still with us? :)
18:42:42 <bcotton_> #topic Open floor
18:42:42 <jwf|m> <mattdm "Nothing super big and strategy-s"> Maybe a November topic, but it will be after I am off Council. But the recent uptick of interest in SIGs would be nice to formalize. Or make a strategy about how Fedora SIGs work. Or can work.
18:43:16 <mattdm> jwf|m: thanks that's a good idea and builds on the stuff from our Minnesota meeting
18:43:38 <jwf|m> <mattdm "So anyway, please do your best t"> Looking forward to CommBlog post 🌠
18:44:39 <bcotton_> last call!
18:44:52 <jwf|m> <Southern_Gentlem "mattdm,  i will edit my blog pos"> Southern_Gentlem++
18:45:44 <jwf|m> <eom>
18:46:16 <bcotton_> alrighty, thanks everyone!
18:46:19 <bcotton_> #endmeeting