17:58:52 <pboyHB> #startmeeting fedora-server
17:58:52 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb 17 17:58:52 2021 UTC.
17:58:52 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:58:52 <zodbot> The chair is pboyHB. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:58:52 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:58:52 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-server'
17:59:02 <pboyHB> #topic Introduction, Quick Hello
17:59:09 <pboyHB> hi everyone!
17:59:20 <pboyHB> we'll give a few minutes for folks to show up
17:59:29 <pboyHB> #info please say either .hello2  or .hello <fasname>  (the latter if your nick here is not your fasname)
17:59:39 <pboyHB> I’ll post the agenda then in a second
18:00:37 <smooge> hello
18:00:42 <smooge> .hello smooge
18:00:43 <zodbot> smooge: smooge 'Stephen J Smoogen' <smooge@gmail.com>
18:00:48 <nirik> .hello kevin
18:00:49 <zodbot> nirik: kevin 'Kevin Fenzi' <kevin@scrye.com>
18:01:32 <King_InuYasha> .hello ngompa
18:01:33 <zodbot> King_InuYasha: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com>
18:01:34 * King_InuYasha waves
18:02:14 <jwhimpel> .hello jwhimpel
18:02:15 <zodbot> jwhimpel: jwhimpel 'John Himpel' <john@jlhimpel.net>
18:03:07 <pboyHB> #topic Agenda
18:03:11 <copperi> .hello2
18:03:12 <zodbot> copperi: copperi 'Jan Kuparinen' <copper_fin@hotmail.com>
18:03:18 <pboyHB> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/RQWDTIBDAUUK63HYIHLBHGJEMROSELOE/
18:03:25 <pboyHB> 1. Status Reboot Server Working Group
18:03:31 <pboyHB> 2. Work programme for the coming year
18:03:38 <pboyHB> 3. PRD Update (first round of discussion)
18:03:46 <pboyHB> 4. Open floor
18:04:16 <pboyHB> Hello all, let's start
18:04:24 <pboyHB> Any addition to agenda?
18:05:24 <pboyHB> OK, then
18:05:34 <pboyHB> #topic  Status Reboot Server Working Group
18:05:53 <pboyHB> Please, bear with me, I'm not yet that fit with IRC.
18:06:02 <smooge> no problem you are doing well
18:06:06 <pboyHB> Current status:
18:06:14 <pboyHB> The open slates for by-election of WG members are now fulfilled (3 votings +1).
18:06:22 <pboyHB> So we are now able to proced on save ground.
18:06:39 <pboyHB> Any opinions?
18:07:12 <smooge> I am good with this
18:07:43 <jwhimpel> pboyHB: Thanks to you and Matt for getting this done
18:07:44 <smooge> It would be good to get this 'done' and then work on cleaning up the rules so it doesn't happen again
18:07:50 <nirik> so, who did we approve? just everyone that asked?
18:07:50 <pboyHB> OK: Both Stephen's want to withdraw from the WG unfortunatelly!
18:08:05 <pboyHB> smooge: Agreed
18:08:36 <pboyHB> we would be 12 active members (sithout both Stephens)
18:08:43 <smooge> I will withdraw when a replacement is available and voted in. I really not have time to work on this beyond meetings
18:08:53 <pboyHB> Membvers arelangdon Langdon White
18:09:00 <pboyHB> abbra Alexander Bokovoy
18:09:10 <pboyHB> salimma Michel Alexandre Salim
18:09:17 <pboyHB> astra David Kaufmann
18:09:24 <pboyHB> jwhimpel John Himpel
18:09:30 <pboyHB> sghosh Subhendu Ghosh
18:09:37 <pboyHB> jbwillia Ben Williams
18:09:44 <pboyHB> x3mboy Eduard Lucena
18:09:50 <pboyHB> pboy Peter Boy
18:09:57 <pboyHB> nb Nick Bebout
18:10:04 <pboyHB> (In order of ticket entries)
18:10:17 <nb> .hello2
18:10:18 <pboyHB> Then there are additional :
18:10:18 <zodbot> nb: nb 'Nick Bebout' <nick@bebout.net>
18:10:25 <pboyHB> defolos
18:10:32 <pboyHB> mhoungbo
18:10:36 <smooge> I would confirm that langdon is still 'here' i have not seen them since initial items and it might be a place for people to join in
18:10:37 <pboyHB> fsaez
18:10:44 <pboyHB> fcami
18:10:53 <pboyHB> We would have to open a new slate.
18:11:03 <x3mboy> I'm here
18:11:13 <pboyHB> And we have ngompa
18:11:25 <pboyHB> Sorry didn_t catch him from my list
18:11:52 <michel_slm> .hello salimma
18:11:52 <zodbot> michel_slm: salimma 'Michel Alexandre Salim' <michel@michel-slm.name>
18:12:09 <nb> ngompa thinks he was already made a member in the past
18:12:16 <smooge> my wording for 'langdon is still 'here'' could have been better. I had not seen him recently so thought it was an old slot
18:12:39 <nb> but i guess without being officially added inthe past, he needs voted on again?
18:12:40 <King_InuYasha> .hello ngompa
18:12:41 <zodbot> King_InuYasha: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com>
18:12:42 <pboyHB> nb: yes, but obviously wiki was not updated.
18:12:54 <King_InuYasha> nb: sgallagh made me a member when I was working on making the Fedora base snap
18:12:59 <King_InuYasha> which was being done under the Server WG
18:13:00 <pboyHB> nb So the best is, to make a new slage
18:13:30 * michel_slm has an overlapping Hyperscale meeting so will lurk
18:13:31 <King_InuYasha> and I'd wind up being a WG member again anyway if we eventually merge Cloud SIG+WG and Server WG
18:13:44 <King_InuYasha> yeah, I'm also overlapping on CentOS Hyperscale SIG meeting :)
18:13:50 <pboyHB> ngompa: So OK then. It would be good, if sgallagh could send a message on our list.
18:14:14 <copperi> is Cloud SIG alive ?
18:14:14 <sgallagh> Confirmed.
18:14:37 <sgallagh> (I’m not really here, but I saw the mention)
18:14:38 <pboyHB> OK, so ngompa already a member!
18:14:54 <pboyHB> I'll update our wiki list later today.
18:15:02 <nirik> perhaps they are Cirrocumulus...
18:15:17 <smooge> Cloud SIG is needing work. It is mostly run via the 400% energy from Dusty who is out currently taking care of a new baby
18:15:24 <pboyHB> copperi: I tried to join the meeting yesterday, but nobody showed up.
18:15:42 <copperi> pboy: same with me
18:16:37 <pboyHB> What about the suggestion of a periodic chair?
18:16:45 <smooge> I think that is a good idea
18:16:50 <pboyHB> (Its subtoppic (a)
18:17:01 <smooge> it makes sure that it isn't just one person's job which gets tiring and thankless quickly
18:17:21 <nirik> yeah, switching it seems like a good idea.
18:17:38 <nirik> (for reasons smooge said)
18:17:42 <smooge> i would follow the FESCO method where the person who is to run the next meeting and keep track of todo's between those times is agreed on in the last meeting
18:18:14 <smooge> s/would follow/suggest to follow/
18:18:18 <pboyHB> with periodic i meant: the same team for perhaps 6 months to ensure continuity.
18:20:03 <pboyHB> Any additional opinions about half year term?
18:20:21 <nirik> Doing a new chair per meeting keeps everyone involved and makes sure everyone knows how to run a meeting. I think 6 months is a pretty long commitment for one person.
18:20:37 <copperi> so do I
18:21:00 <pboyHB> nirik: yes, but I think a team of 2 persons
18:21:07 <smooge> I think the term chair may have different meanings to you and me nirik versus others
18:22:18 <pboyHB> Suggestion by Chris Murphy was: keep chair constant for some time, according to experiences of workstation WG.
18:23:16 <smooge> ah so different kind of chair. Person who runs the show/is the final decider versus person who runs the meetings and keeps them on track
18:23:18 <fsaez> .hello
18:23:18 <zodbot> fsaez: (hello <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "hellomynameis $1".
18:23:19 <pboyHB> But, there a objections, so we should switch chair from meeting to meeting  and evaulate after some time
18:23:32 <fsaez> .hello fsaez
18:23:33 <zodbot> fsaez: fsaez 'None' <fsaez@fesatel.cl>
18:23:59 <nirik> yeah, might be our terms are different. I was thinking just the person who collects the agenda and runs the meeting...
18:24:56 <pboyHB> For our own last meetings it was a bit "difficult" with the agenda.
18:25:18 <pboyHB> #agreed Change of chair from meeting to meeting
18:25:48 <pboyHB> Subtopic (b): contact out 4 inactive members so far
18:26:14 <pboyHB> (Suggestion of Chris Murphy to clean up)
18:26:33 <nirik> sounds good
18:27:01 <pboyHB> #agreed We'contact inactive members
18:27:16 <pboyHB> #action  Current chair will make contact.
18:27:36 <pboyHB> Net subtopic:What about SIG?
18:28:08 <pboyHB> suggestion: We should form the SIG anew together
18:28:25 <smooge> so I was going to say I have enough time to be part of a SIG to help on things in WG when possible
18:28:31 <smooge> and I agree on that
18:28:47 <pboyHB> So at first: WG and SIG might be the same person and differentiare according to time resources.
18:29:16 <nirik> whatever org gets things done. :)
18:29:20 <pboyHB> We wourk primary as SIG, use WG when nedessary
18:29:35 <King_InuYasha> the WG could actually have SIGs underneath it
18:29:41 <King_InuYasha> we might actually need to do that anyway
18:29:52 <King_InuYasha> since there's Cloud and traditional Server
18:30:13 <pboyHB> I wopuld like to avoid the "underneath"
18:30:27 <King_InuYasha> we already are going to have that today
18:30:39 <pboyHB> rather WG as  formal subset of SIG
18:30:54 <smooge> I think we need to define what is meant by underneath
18:31:20 <smooge> as to me that (WG as formal subset of SIG) is underneath but that isn't universal
18:32:05 <King_InuYasha> I would consider it the other way around, as WGs structurally report to FESCo and Council directly
18:32:31 <pboyHB> According to our current govermance there is no underneath, at least not in terms of voting and power to decide.
18:33:16 <nirik> working groups were intended to be more formal and have actual known members that could vote on things, etc... but really I don't think we should get too hung up on all this. A active SIG is still better than a defunct Working Group. Lets try and do things and adapt after that.
18:33:29 <smooge> [council]->[fesco] <-> (WG) <- (SIG)
18:33:53 <smooge> but yeah.. agreed with nirik.
18:33:53 <pboyHB> smoog: +1
18:33:56 <nirik> SIGs only requirement is that they say they exist.
18:34:06 <King_InuYasha> pretty much
18:34:37 <King_InuYasha> WGs are likely to lose their extra formal requirements anyway, since bcotton has seen them not really work out in practice
18:35:13 <pboyHB> Proposal: lets restart a SIG with us as all as members and let's see how it works out.
18:35:15 <King_InuYasha> so the only material difference will be that WG deliverables have top billing on getfedora.org and are effectively required for Fedora releases
18:35:41 <bcotton> so really, there's not a meaningful difference between a WG and a SIG anymore
18:36:22 <King_InuYasha> we could also just kill the WG thing entirely and put them back to being SIGs, but... people like differentiated terms :)
18:36:42 <pboyHB> bcotton: there will be. Not all members can spent so much time as WG requires. But nevertheless are valuable contributors.
18:36:47 <King_InuYasha> WGs are currently the only thing allowed to produced Editions
18:37:02 <bcotton> pboyHB: you can call it whatever you want
18:37:15 <King_InuYasha> pboyHB: WGs won't have extra time requirements soon anyway
18:37:18 <bcotton> King_InuYasha: not true (although there are probably a lot of places that's said)
18:37:36 <King_InuYasha> bcotton: that's good to know, as I was under that impression
18:37:51 <bcotton> From https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedoras-strategic-direction-an-update-from-the-council/ (although not clearly stated), Fedora has Teams. Teams can call themselves whatever they want and can basically self-organize
18:38:24 <bcotton> there's just so much old documenation out there and no one has ever really sat down to clean it up :-(
18:38:30 <nirik> right, so we should just not worry about what we call it... just try and get a group that can get things done.
18:38:35 <pboyHB> bcotton: but an edition needs a formal WG
18:38:42 <bcotton> nirik++
18:38:42 <zodbot> bcotton: Karma for kevin changed to 26 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:38:45 <bcotton> Ben Cotton: no
18:38:52 <bcotton> grr
18:38:56 <bcotton> pboyHB: no. that's not correct
18:39:14 <copperi> nirik +1
18:39:32 <pboyHB> bcotton: Matthew tells otherwise. And Fedory doc as well.
18:39:54 <bcotton> pboyHB: i''ll talk to matthew about that. because that's not a distinction the council draws anymore
18:40:12 <bcotton> i spent two days locked in a room with him and bex to come up with what we whittled down to the blog post linked above
18:40:48 <pboyHB> Proposal: we delete current content from SIG and tell the world, we work all together in WG vor now.
18:40:51 <King_InuYasha> bcotton: that's how I thought it was still the case too
18:40:56 <King_InuYasha> pboyHB: +1
18:41:56 <pboyHB> #agreed. We outdate SIG wiki and tell the world we work together under the label WG.
18:42:14 <nirik> well, how about noting/archiving the old stuff? just deleting it before we have anything to put there seems hasty...
18:42:17 <copperi> phoyHB +1
18:42:26 <nirik> but otherwise +1
18:42:31 <pboyHB> #action.  pboyHB changes SIG wiki page
18:42:33 <fsaez> pboyHB +1
18:42:56 <pboyHB> nirik: of course, we archive, just as I did with WG page.
18:43:14 <nirik> cool
18:43:29 <pboyHB> #topic   Work programme for the coming year
18:43:40 <pboyHB> Floor is open.
18:43:56 <pboyHB> until now we had: dicumentation and cloud cooerpation
18:44:16 <pboyHB> there were some ideas about IPA, too
18:44:35 <pboyHB> any additional ideas?
18:44:43 <nirik> There was some talk about revisiting defaults... filesystem/partitioning
18:45:05 <pboyHB> nirik:+1
18:45:32 <jwhimpel> The initial WG charter talked about base installation with approved "roles" as add-ons. I would be interested in working on the add-ons.
18:46:05 <nirik> yeah, we had a thing that deployed roles... but it's no longer developed.
18:46:13 <pboyHB> roles are off. what do you mean by ddd-ons ?
18:46:46 <pboyHB> sorry, my keyboard is dump. :_)
18:47:01 <jwhimpel> known working installation and configurations for mail servers, dhcp, database servers, ldap, etc
18:47:16 <misc> trying to push more people on using Fedora on server ? (like blog post on how that's great, etc) ?
18:47:23 <pboyHB> jwhimpel:  +1
18:47:28 <nirik> misc: +1
18:47:53 <misc> and trying to understand why people don't, so kinda like use the future shiny survey platform commops is preparing
18:47:54 <fsaez> misc: +1
18:48:01 <nirik> jwhimpel: the problem with most of those is... there's 10,000 ways to set it up, so if you set it up one way people will complain that they wanted it another way. Or needs information from them to setup, etc.
18:48:07 <pboyHB> jwhimpel: I'm working on some ddocumentation about that. probably we can team up?
18:48:27 <langdon> hey y'all... i just wanted to pop in and say the timing of the server sig "coming back" also coincided with me being incredibly busy.. i expect to be able to participate more starting in a couple weeks
18:48:50 <smooge> well that answers my question from above
18:48:53 <jwhimpel> Agreed there are 10,00 ways to set it up.  But perhaps sticking to a simple SOHO setup for starters.
18:48:57 <pboyHB> langdon, *1. missed you
18:49:04 <langdon> smooge: you made my phone light up :) ...
18:49:26 <smooge> ... is in many people's filters today
18:49:59 <pboyHB> nirik: yes 10.000, but it would be fine to have tutorials and playboks for some specific use cases.
18:50:00 <misc> mhh, organising a podcast/meeting where people fight about best mail configuration (and then get a shadyy underground bookmaker business)
18:50:16 <pboyHB> misc: +1
18:50:41 <nb> we should get with x3mboy and ComputerKid about having a Fedora Server podcast episode
18:50:43 <pboyHB> misc, you are born to become a Server ambassador
18:50:50 <nirik> sure, you can do that... it's just hard to ship and test a specific thing like that. docs and such are great
18:51:10 <jwhimpel> I'm not suggesting there is only one way to do things.  Just "this way is known to work - if you are a newbie"
18:51:17 <x3mboy> Sure, I'm up to it
18:51:28 <misc> pboyHB: well, i already keep telling to people to use more fedora servers :p
18:51:38 <copperi> quick docs type are good for tasks
18:52:32 <pboyHB> Do we agree about documentation, cloud cooperation and default partiioniong? (you know, our goals)
18:53:40 <pboyHB> #agreed. goals are documentation, cloud cooperation, default partitioning
18:53:52 <x3mboy> +1
18:53:56 <pboyHB> #topic   PRD Update first round of discussion
18:54:20 <pboyHB> It'sa quite late now  how can we proceed?
18:55:09 <pboyHB> Can we talk about the first to sections Vision and Mission?
18:56:19 <pboyHB> Alternativly, does someone commit to write a review abot those two for next meeting?
18:57:33 <pboyHB> Well, maybe we should postpone this topic to next meeting.
18:57:53 <pboyHB> #topic open floor
19:00:09 <pboyHB> Well, before closing: who will take chair for next meeting?
19:00:16 <smooge> i need ot head to other meetings. I would say move things to the next meeting. when is it?
19:00:24 <smooge> 1 or 2 weeks from now?
19:00:37 <pboyHB> Next meeting in 2 weeks. Annojuncment on list
19:00:55 <smooge> I will take it
19:01:33 <pboyHB> Nobody for chair? I propose I'll continue before we don't know. Any objections?
19:02:10 <pboyHB> #agreed: next chair smooge
19:02:27 <pboyHB> #endmeeting