15:01:00 <adamw> #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting
15:01:00 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Sep 14 15:01:00 2020 UTC.
15:01:00 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:01:00 <zodbot> The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:01:00 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:01:00 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_qa_meeting'
15:01:05 <adamw> #meetingname fedora-qa
15:01:05 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
15:01:08 <adamw> #topic Roll call
15:01:12 * sumantro is here
15:01:24 <tflink> morning
15:01:43 <lruzicka> .hello2
15:01:44 <zodbot> lruzicka: lruzicka 'Lukáš Růžička' <lruzicka@redhat.com>
15:01:52 <adamw> morning folks
15:01:56 <lwh> hello
15:01:57 <cmurf> guten morgen
15:02:07 <lruzicka> dzien dóbry
15:02:42 <sumantro> buenos dias
15:03:05 <coremodule> gud mrng
15:03:11 <adamw> we'll have none of your barbarian tongues in here
15:03:19 <adamw> we speak the queen's english, by God
15:03:36 <lruzicka> sumantro, अच्छा दिन
15:03:51 <michel_slm> .hello salimma
15:03:52 <zodbot> michel_slm: salimma 'Michel Alexandre Salim' <michel@michel-slm.name>
15:04:26 * kalev lurks.
15:04:41 <lruzicka> adamw, lá maith
15:04:42 <sumantro> lruzicka, that was so close :D good morning is शुभ प्रभात
15:05:28 <adamw> #topic Previous meeting follow-up
15:05:28 <tflink> adamw: ¿Qué?
15:05:38 <adamw> .fuego tflink
15:05:46 <adamw> (yes i know that's not what that means thanks)
15:05:52 <adamw> (that was the joke)
15:06:03 <lruzicka> sumantro, I wanted to write "good day"
15:06:05 <tflink> saved by macros being only "the queen's english"?
15:06:09 <Lailah> Hi everyone!
15:06:10 <adamw> "kparal to update criteria with his log in / log out draft"
15:06:13 <adamw> hi lailah
15:06:15 <Lailah> .fas lailah
15:06:15 <zodbot> Lailah: lailah 'Sylvia Sánchez' <BHKohane@gmail.com>
15:06:21 <adamw> kparal: that got done, right?
15:06:44 * Lailah waves at adamw
15:07:06 <coremodule> Caesar non supra grammaticos
15:07:53 <Lailah> tflink:  What with the Queen's English?
15:08:04 <adamw> Lailah: just roll call jokes
15:08:29 <tflink> what adamw said :)
15:08:44 <sumantro> lruzicka, :D
15:08:45 <adamw> kparal: *ahem*
15:08:58 <adamw> man is he like not here or something
15:09:00 <adamw> is that even allowed
15:09:23 <cmurf> I thought he was in a race?
15:09:28 <adamw> heh
15:09:33 <lruzicka> he must be around, the children are racing around him :D
15:09:40 <Lailah> A race to what?
15:09:48 <adamw> he was in a race with me
15:09:49 <adamw> to update bugs
15:09:53 <Lailah> Ah.
15:11:04 <adamw> #info "kparal to update criteria with his log in / log out draft" - this got done: https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Fedora_33_Beta_Release_Criteria&diff=586431&oldid=576081
15:11:12 <adamw> any other follow-up from last time, folks?
15:12:56 <adamw> i guess not!
15:13:05 <adamw> #topic Fedora 33 status
15:13:18 <adamw> so fedora 33 status is, well, most stuff is working but we have some blockers
15:13:25 <adamw> blocker review meeting in 45 mins, btw
15:13:42 <kalev> I wanted to ask, how's the general feeling: are we going to be able to ship this week?
15:13:44 <coremodule> cmurf, we need a "ship it" here
15:13:49 <adamw> #info Fedora 33 is mostly working well at this point but we have some awkward unresolved blocker bugs with KDE log out and abrt/libreport
15:14:04 <Lailah> adamw:  I did some testing on my SDDM but the bug remains the same except for one exceptional case.
15:14:06 <kalev> (if not, then I'd like to propose a gnome megaupdate for FE but if we are shipping this week, then there's not enough time)
15:14:31 <adamw> kalev: it depends pretty much entirely on https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1861700 and the abrt-related bugs i would say
15:14:49 <adamw> though there's the two systemd-resolved related bugs too, i thought they were dealt with but will need to check into them
15:14:54 <kalev> yeah, I was just wondering what's your feeling if they get resolved in time or not :)
15:14:56 <adamw> Lailah: yeah, it seems pretty clear the bug is still there
15:15:04 <adamw> kalev: not really that hopeful right now
15:15:16 <adamw> i guess we could wind up waiving them, but...
15:15:19 <Lailah> adamw:  The only time it didn't happen was when I was using Wayland.
15:15:22 * kalev nods.
15:15:27 <kparal> ah, meeting time!
15:15:33 <adamw> .fire kparal again
15:15:33 <zodbot> adamw fires kparal again
15:15:50 <Lailah> But then the session was rather unusable and many apps either crashed or refused to start, so...
15:15:51 <kparal> adamw: yes I updated the criterion
15:16:07 <Lailah> adamw:  It was like switching one problem for another.
15:16:31 <kparal> it seems the update to F33 broke my hexchat notifications or something :/
15:16:36 <adamw> Lailah: like switching one problem for lots of worse ones, heh
15:16:49 <adamw> kparal: huh, i don't think mine are broken...
15:17:49 <adamw> anyone have other notes on f33 status? cmurf, anything to note about btrfs or resolved or anything?
15:18:03 <Lailah> kparal:  Konversation notifications aren't working either.  Not for me, at least.
15:18:15 <cmurf> calm before the storm? :D
15:18:42 <Lailah> adamw:  I found a bug in networks handling under KDE.  :-D
15:18:52 <adamw> cmurf: heh
15:18:55 <cmurf> so far so good, f31->f33 upgrade did do the right thing for systemd-resolved and nsswitch.conf
15:18:55 <adamw> Lailah: what's the bug?
15:18:58 <lruzicka> Lailah, have you reported it?
15:19:05 <Lailah> Yup, I reported it.
15:19:13 <lruzicka> Lailah, link please?
15:19:22 <Lailah> Sure, give me a sec please.
15:20:12 <Lailah> This one:  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1878425
15:20:54 <Lailah> Also, and I didn't report/add it because I was unsure if it's the same thing or a separate bug, but there's another issue with networks under KDE.
15:21:24 <michel_slm> Lailah: are these networks the machine has connected to before, or all networks it has seen before?
15:21:57 <Lailah> michel_slm:  These were networks the laptop connected at least once before.
15:22:25 <Lailah> I'm sure it happens with any network but I can't tell if they are available or not because I have no access to the router.
15:22:56 <Lailah> In this case I could see what was the problem because I was metres away from the router, so I could stand up and see the routers were unplugged.
15:23:35 <Lailah> But I had the same when I walk away from a hotspot and I'm out of reach but the network still shows in the list and let you connect.
15:23:59 <adamw> huh, interesting. a video might be useful for that one
15:24:06 <Lailah> Connect to what, I don't know.  If the hotspot is out of reach or the router is turned off, how comes I can connect?
15:24:38 <Lailah> adamw:  I can record a video if you tell me what do you need to see.
15:25:12 <coremodule> Lailah, adamw I will also install and test for this for added information.
15:25:20 <lruzicka> Lailah, well it probably does not connect, it might start the wifi with the according settings
15:25:23 <adamw> thanks coremodule
15:25:47 <Lailah> Another issue is that networks are not shown with the closest or with stronger signal on the top as it should, but with the previously connected networks on the top, even if they're not available.
15:26:25 <Lailah> It's so confusing trying to connect to something that then turns out is not available, too weak, too far away....
15:27:11 <Lailah> lruzicka:  It does connect, it even shows speed and says  "Connected to".  And there's the button to disconnect.
15:28:03 <Lailah> I have no idea what is it doing, because if the router is off, what is it connecting to?  Is my laptop hallucinating a connection that doesn't exist?
15:28:42 <lruzicka> Lailah, exactly if there is not router, it cannot handshake, so it is very interesting
15:28:53 <michel_slm> Lailah: I wonder what `ip route` says
15:31:30 <Lailah> michel_slm: Oh, good question.  I could test that.
15:32:07 <Lailah> I have plenty of unavailable networks to choose from  :-P
15:32:29 <adamw> ok, moving along
15:32:35 <adamw> we can look into this more outside the meeting
15:32:41 <Lailah> Sure
15:32:48 <adamw> #topic Outstanding criteria proposals
15:32:51 <adamw> so er
15:33:10 <adamw> i have totally lost track of what's still outstanding...
15:33:14 <adamw> let's see
15:33:39 <Lailah> adamw:  Sorry, I got too enthusiastic with my bug...
15:34:02 <adamw> Lailah: it's no problem
15:34:27 <Lailah> :-)
15:34:46 * kalev just submitted https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1878828 for GNOME 3.38.0 FE
15:34:55 <adamw> so i believe mcatanzaro's first boot experience proposal is outstanding
15:35:03 <adamw> kalev: rgr, will make sure it comes up in the meeting
15:35:26 <kalev> thanks
15:35:36 <adamw> also there's the thread about IoT criteria merging into main criteria
15:35:46 <adamw> i think i haven't seen any objections to the first boot experience criterion
15:35:55 <adamw> did anyone have any issues/thoughts/notes on it?
15:36:07 <Lailah> adamw:  I'm reading.
15:36:11 <adamw> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/HSUETWLZIXFKJXGQUEJ2QAOQZCDG242B/ is the proposal for anyone who hasn't seen it
15:36:22 <cmurf> i gave it a thumbs up
15:36:59 <coremodule> adamw, the IoT criteria merging is linked here: https://lists.fedorahosted.org/archives/list/iot@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/KLG45B434REWXT6NXN5BSWGFOQIGGPNM/#2OWV6KGJRH5SNZ5T2T77NH4IFIFXNOAN
15:37:05 <adamw> yup
15:38:01 <coremodule> pwhalen got back to the thread and showed me where the IoT criteria is given a milestone. I will spend time this week merging them on my own wiki, then post to the thread for review, then go live once all looks good
15:38:04 <Lailah> adamw:  What does  "bikeshed away"  means?
15:38:35 <cmurf> haggle
15:38:36 <adamw> means "go ahead and discuss", more or less
15:38:47 <adamw> "bikeshedding" is a term for endlessly debating an unimportant point
15:38:52 <pwhalen> coremodule: happy to help as well
15:38:53 <tflink> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bikeshedding
15:38:56 <adamw> as definitely never happens on fedora mailing lists :)
15:39:08 <Lailah> adamw:  Noooo...  never.
15:39:10 <cmurf> what color should we paint the bike shed?
15:39:17 <coremodule> thanks pwhalen :)
15:39:32 <adamw> #action coremodule and pwhalen to work on reconciling IoT and main release criteria
15:39:41 <coremodule> isn't the bikeshed where corporeal punishment is supposed to happen?
15:39:49 <bcotton> that's the woodshed
15:39:51 <adamw> #info mcatanzaro's first boot experience proposal still outstanding: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/HSUETWLZIXFKJXGQUEJ2QAOQZCDG242B/
15:40:07 <Lailah> bcotton:  What's the difference?
15:40:29 <Lailah> They're all made of wood and keep bikes and tools... right?
15:40:39 <cmurf> "basic functionality" explained in this email within that thread
15:40:41 <cmurf> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/FN5EY55DGEEGFEIMBN536UN4WATQF2ZM/
15:40:42 <coremodule> phew, I thought we might be in trouble if told to "bikeshed away". adamw, get the switch
15:40:47 <lruzicka> woodshed is in the wood and bikeshed in the bike?
15:41:43 <Lailah> adamw:  I'm good with adding that criteria.
15:41:57 <michel_slm> for F33 I feel like that first boot experience can be a final blocker, but I wonder if it should be a beta blocker for f34 onwards
15:42:42 <michel_slm> (we plan to dogfood F33 beta at work but would rely on gnome-initial-setup for new installs, so... if it's flaky that won't be a good experience)
15:42:57 <cmurf> proposed criterion has enough ambiguity that it leaves QA wiggle room to decide what's basic (and what's sufficiently functional)
15:43:12 <adamw> proposed #agreed we're all on board with the proposed first boot experience proposal, we will ask mcatanzaro to make it official
15:43:23 <adamw> ack/nack/patch
15:43:30 <cmurf> ack
15:43:32 <lruzicka> ack
15:43:35 <sumantro> ack
15:43:36 <Lailah> ack
15:43:54 <kparal> ack
15:44:08 <bcotton> ack
15:44:19 <tflink> ack
15:44:31 <cmurf> this is a lot of acks
15:44:48 <Lailah> We're a lot of people to ack
15:44:49 <adamw> woo it's ack city
15:44:52 <adamw> #agreed we're all on board with the proposed first boot experience proposal, we will ask mcatanzaro to make it official
15:45:03 <adamw> #action adamw to ask mcatanzaro to put the first boot experience criterion proposal into production
15:45:14 <adamw> #topic Test Day / community event status
15:45:17 <adamw> sumantro, where are we at?
15:45:30 * jlanda waves
15:45:32 <sumantro> i18n test week was successful, with a good show of testers https://testdays.fedorainfracloud.org/events/90
15:45:46 <sumantro> Fedora Media Writer Test Day starts on 2020-09-18; http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2020-09-18_Fedora_Media_Writer. There was a new build and will benefit from testing
15:45:58 <sumantro> F33 Upgrade test day to follow on 2020-09-21;http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2020-09-21_F33_Upgrade_Test_Day
15:46:08 <sumantro> Fedora Cloud Test Day is in works
15:46:28 <sumantro> dustymabe, is working on moving the FCOS next to F33 which will open oppotunities for another Test Day/Week in recent future.https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/611
15:46:39 <sumantro> That's all from my side :D
15:46:41 <cmurf> Btrfs test week happened as well, since the last QA meeting.
15:46:48 <sumantro> oh yess!
15:47:02 <adamw> #info i18n test week went off well: https://testdays.fedorainfracloud.org/events/90
15:47:17 <adamw> #info Fedora Media Writer Test Day is on 2020-09-18: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2020-09-18_Fedora_Media_Writer
15:47:30 <sumantro> btrfs test week was very very successful; https://testdays.fedorainfracloud.org/events/92
15:47:37 <adamw> #info Fedora 33 Upgrade Test Day is on 2020-09-21: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2020-09-21_F33_Upgrade_Test_Day
15:47:51 <adamw> #info Btrfs Test Week also went off well: https://testdays.fedorainfracloud.org/events/92
15:47:55 <adamw> thanks!
15:48:22 <sumantro> I might be taking a classroom for writing test cases soon https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issue/221
15:48:38 <Lailah> Ohhh!!!!  So many test days!!!
15:48:43 * Lailah makes happy noises
15:49:18 <sumantro> Lailah, :)
15:49:35 <adamw> =)
15:49:41 <adamw> thanks a lot for handling all that, sumantro
15:49:46 <adamw> #topic Open floor
15:49:49 <adamw> any other business, folks?
15:49:54 <sumantro> adamw np! :D
15:50:16 <cmurf> we might want to recruit hej into QA, he did a kernel bisect yesterday and stuck with it through 12 hours (ok maybe it was 5 hours but it seemed like 12)
15:50:30 <Lailah> adamw:  There are more issues related to my bug, but I can keep them for another chance if you think it's best.
15:50:40 <adamw> cmurf: i can offer a salary of zero dollars and endless responsibilities
15:50:45 <cmurf> found an amdgpu regression between kernel 5.6 and 5.7
15:50:55 <cmurf> sold!
15:50:58 <Lailah> adamw:  Sounds like great deal!
15:51:08 <cmurf> it's a bargain!
15:51:16 <adamw> cmurf: what was the regression?
15:51:31 <cmurf> uncommanded reboot when the screen dims (backlight turns off)
15:51:35 <cmurf> nothing in the logs
15:51:40 <cmurf> as if sysrq+b is issued
15:51:47 <cmurf> bam - reboot
15:52:12 <michel_slm> re: AMD - the new ThinkPad T14 with AMD CPU keeps crashing with Fedora 32 (a colleague has that machine); we'll retest with the latest F33 beta candidate
15:52:51 <adamw> cmurf: yikes, fun
15:53:21 <adamw> cmurf: is it in 5.8 too? worth an FE for f33?
15:53:28 <cmurf> it's in 5.8 and 5.9
15:54:15 <cmurf> it's probably conditional, i've been asking around and haven't heard of this particular regression
15:54:28 <adamw> okay
15:54:38 <cmurf> so i'm not sure how common it is - reboot on screen dim is vicious, i think we'd have heard many noises
15:54:39 <adamw> michel_slm: did you file a bug for f32?
15:54:44 <adamw> cmurf: yeah, seems like it
15:57:05 <michel_slm> adamw: I'll ask my colleague to do it - I'm not sure if one has been filed or not
15:57:33 <adamw> thanks\
15:57:41 <adamw> alright, i guess our time is up
15:57:55 <adamw> also there is a rather large cat sitting on my left wrist
15:58:02 <adamw> thanks for coming everyone
15:58:34 <Lailah> adamw:  Bid farewall to your left hand, it has been taken over by your feline master.
15:58:50 <adamw> that it has
15:58:54 <Lailah> You are not allowed to move until your feline master decides to move.
15:59:15 <adamw> this is the usual state of affairs
15:59:34 <adamw> #endmeeting