14:03:35 <pbrobinson> #startmeeting Fedora IoT Working Group Meeting
14:03:35 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Sep  5 14:03:35 2018 UTC.
14:03:35 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
14:03:35 <zodbot> The chair is pbrobinson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:03:35 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:03:35 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_iot_working_group_meeting'
14:03:36 <pbrobinson> #chair pwhalen pbrobinson bcotton
14:03:36 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton pbrobinson pwhalen
14:03:36 <pbrobinson> #topic roll call
14:03:45 <pbrobinson> sorry I'm late
14:03:55 * pwhalen is here
14:04:09 <bcotton> .hello2
14:04:11 <zodbot> bcotton: bcotton 'Ben Cotton' <bcotton@redhat.com>
14:04:50 <ipcloud> .hello2
14:04:51 <zodbot> ipcloud: Sorry, but you don't exist
14:05:16 <jsmith> .hello2
14:05:17 <zodbot> jsmith: jsmith 'Jared Smith' <jsmith.fedora@gmail.com>
14:05:50 <pbrobinson> how is everyone, sorry I'm late, i was poking and broken things and lost track of time :-.
14:05:52 <pbrobinson> :-/
14:06:02 <pbrobinson> #topic 1) ==== Working Group process and admin  ====
14:06:12 <jsmith> pbrobinson: That's OK -- I was late too :-)
14:06:26 * pwhalen was also late :)
14:06:28 <pbrobinson> I've started going through this earlier today, I've got some edits in process
14:07:11 <pbrobinson> and I said I'd do my bits for this week so I'm late and fully expect to be in (more) trouble with bcotton
14:07:30 <pbrobinson> but it is in process so I'll have my bits done by close of play today :)
14:07:53 <bcotton> i'd say you couldn't possibly be in more trouble with me, but i have faith in you
14:08:10 <pwhalen> heh
14:09:07 <pbrobinson> bcotton: always in trouble... just the depth that varies....  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-D
14:09:37 <tim-jones> Hi all - have been lurking as I am looking to base a new build of our hub based on fedora-iot rather than the existing raspbian (cut down) version we have now
14:10:34 <pbrobinson> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/InternetOfThings/PRD
14:10:40 <pbrobinson> #info PRD review
14:10:54 <pbrobinson> tim-jones: welcome!
14:11:36 <pbrobinson> as a quick go through of the above PRD we'll do bits on each sections now and people can bring up anything to note and I'll add it in
14:11:51 <pbrobinson> #info Fedora IoT Vision Statement
14:12:03 <pbrobinson> any thoughts on the vision statement, feedback etc?
14:13:00 <ipcloud> s/wil/will/
14:14:18 <pbrobinson> ipcloud: got it, anyone with anything else
14:14:40 <pbrobinson> #info Fedora IoT Mission Statement
14:15:22 <pbrobinson> just updated it to "Fedora IoT makes Fedora the default for open source innovation on IoT hardware, endpoint, edge, middleware, cloud, and backend platforms."
14:17:00 <pbrobinson> #info Market Opportunity
14:17:09 <pbrobinson> I think this looks OK
14:18:18 <pbrobinson> now onto more interesting bits
14:18:23 <pbrobinson> #info Edition Objectives
14:18:46 <pbrobinson> I've tweaked primary/secondary a little, I'm going to add more detail shortly
14:19:11 <pbrobinson> does anyone have any ideas on specific bits they'd like incorporated in there?
14:20:52 <jsmith> The only thing I can think of is maybe some sort explanations of the various roles (endpoint, edge, middleware, gateway, backend)
14:21:37 <tim-jones> probinson bcotton - how would you want contributions - via this meet or async via wiki (NB can't log in to the latter as I get "You need to have at least CLA+1 (group)")
14:21:48 <pbrobinson> jsmith: good point, I was going to flesh each one of thosee out in the use case or objective bits
14:21:59 <jsmith> Maybe even propose two or three sample implementations of those use cases
14:22:02 <jsmith> pbrobinson: +1
14:22:22 <pbrobinson> tim-jones: here, the #fedora-iot channel, to the list or directly to me, how ever you prefer
14:22:40 <tim-jones> probinson: OK
14:23:16 <pbrobinson> jsmith: good points, I've taken notes
14:23:37 <pbrobinson> #info User Profiles, Primary Use Cases and Goals
14:24:05 <tim-jones> Would this be where we should put specifics like the benefits of particular characteristics of fedora-iot to those roles?
14:24:23 <pbrobinson> tim-jones: yes, excellent point
14:24:32 <tim-jones> (to make fedora-iot a better platform for these roles)
14:24:39 <pbrobinson> we are also missing a goals section
14:24:53 <pbrobinson> #info Personas
14:25:48 <pbrobinson> on the personas there's a little overlap here, I'm going to tweak the Maker and Hobbyist section
14:25:56 <tim-jones> typo "personasto"
14:26:14 <pbrobinson> does anyone think we're missing any personas or if any there could be better defined?
14:26:35 <bcotton> tim-jones: btw, you can ask pbrobinson to add you to the iot FAS group and that will give you the ability to edit the wiki
14:27:05 <pbrobinson> bcotton: was going to ping him OOB for that
14:27:06 <ipcloud> I had suggested IoT security  -- is that too broad
14:27:46 <ipcloud> Systems enforcing secure use of Iot.  Includes improvements and direction for handling communications and protocols
14:28:02 <tim-jones> Guess you could be more specific - by "partners" do you mean hardware partners and "companies" do you mean "solution suppliers"?
14:28:40 <pbrobinson> I think we definitely need to cover security in here somewhere, not sure if that's a persona, fits in somewhere else or a section to itself
14:29:03 * ipcloud makes sense
14:29:10 <pbrobinson> tim-jones: I was thinking HW, but it could cover solution suppliers too
14:29:43 <pwhalen> security could fall under a requirements section
14:29:52 <pbrobinson> tim-jones: the partners is more companies that want to contribute into Fedora IoT (IE have their HW supported in it) vs Companies that want to consume it
14:30:01 <tim-jones> Guess there are a lot of software platform suppliers now with their associated hardware and software stacks
14:30:11 <pbrobinson> but we should likely better define those two contexts
14:30:28 <tim-jones> probinson: thanks I get it now
14:31:40 <pbrobinson> ipcloud: thoughts on the security in persona, fits in somewhere else or a section to itself?
14:31:55 <tim-jones> Guess with the recent focus on GDPR - there are going to be a lot of people wanting end to end traceability and demonstrable security at every level
14:32:11 * ipcloud thinking
14:32:18 <tim-jones> A persona could be a data protection officer as they are ultimately responsible for breaches
14:33:36 <ipcloud> tim-jones  that is a good capture of part of the security point I was making
14:33:51 <pbrobinson> ipcloud: tim-jones: I agree, that makes sense
14:34:06 <tim-jones> the GDPR states "Data protection should be designed into new products and services"
14:34:17 <tim-jones> guess we should be able to demonstrate this
14:35:44 <pbrobinson> I've added a "Security and Data Protection" Persona
14:37:18 <pbrobinson> anything more on Personas?
14:38:52 <pbrobinson> #info Use Cases
14:39:26 <pbrobinson> ignore the 1-4 in this section, I copied it and pasted it from above
14:39:37 <pbrobinson> I think home gateway is definitely one
14:40:05 <tim-jones> probinson: +1
14:41:37 <tim-jones> Bridging multiple local protocols in the home and providing reliable cloud comms
14:42:18 <pbrobinson> right, minor updates to that
14:42:48 <tim-jones> Allowing incremental updates better suited to often low-bandwidth and unreliable home broadband connections
14:44:42 <pbrobinson> tim-jones: how low is low for home broadband?
14:44:58 <tim-jones> Chrisian's GSOC work on greenboot playing into automatic rollbacks of new releases could be a useful element
14:45:00 <pbrobinson> I've actually added 3 possible bits
14:45:25 <tim-jones> Sometimes we have to use cellular modems which can only get GPRS
14:45:55 <pbrobinson> tim-jones: is low bandwidth and greenboot a usecase or an implantation detail of a base GW as part of home/industrial end points?
14:47:04 <tim-jones> I guess the use case is wanting to update potentially thousands of home hubs reliably so as to avoid expensive engineer visits
14:47:25 <tim-jones> (sending someone with a new SD card is very expensive)
14:48:53 <pbrobinson> tim-jones: yes, I think that part of it is across all Use Cases TBH. Need to look at how to integrate those notes in, maybe under logistics
14:48:57 <tim-jones> We need to emphasise the atomicity of the updates, such that comms interruption midway through an update does not end up with a trashed hub
14:50:18 <pbrobinson> OK, I've added some notes and I'll work out how we can add it in
14:50:40 <pbrobinson> #info Logistical Concerns
14:51:06 <pbrobinson> #info going to mash delivery/docs/sucess into this
14:51:17 <pbrobinson> any thoughts on these sections?
14:52:00 <tim-jones> Like the specific docs for specific personas :-)
14:52:22 <pbrobinson> tim-jones: within this doc, or elsewhere?
14:53:25 <pbrobinson> right, I think that's enough for the PRD for today
14:53:30 <pbrobinson> great feedback!
14:53:42 <tim-jones> In the docs that you are writing about in Documentation section
14:54:00 <pbrobinson> tim-jones: yep, agreed
14:54:29 <pbrobinson> #action pbrobinson to incorporate notes from this meeting into the PRD and send out a email to the list for last calls by tomorrow morning
14:54:47 <pbrobinson> #topic 2) ==== Open Floor ====
14:55:07 <ipcloud> re: Obtain ;  Are the images on the Fedora project website the current one(s) to use?
14:55:21 <pbrobinson> #info I'm just going to lump all the usual nightly and tech bits into open floor
14:55:27 <ipcloud> Fedora Iot/CoreOS  is there one to best use ? F30 ?
14:55:49 <pbrobinson> ipcloud: there's nightlies for f28/29 and on occasion 30 (that should be resolved in the next day or so)
14:57:17 <pbrobinson> ipcloud: yes, I think so, I'll update the details in the getting started if they're not once I've fixed the current f30 compose issue
14:57:33 <pbrobinson> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/InternetOfThings/GettingStarted
14:57:34 <ipcloud> pbrobinson: I appreciate it
14:57:44 <pbrobinson> anyone got anything else?
14:59:12 <pbrobinson> thanks for the great discussion today everyone!
14:59:18 <pbrobinson> #endmeeting