14:00:48 <pbrobinson> #startmeeting Fedora IoT Working Group Meeting
14:00:48 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed May 30 14:00:48 2018 UTC.
14:00:48 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
14:00:48 <zodbot> The chair is pbrobinson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:48 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:48 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_iot_working_group_meeting'
14:00:48 <pbrobinson> #chair pwhalen pbrobinson
14:00:48 <zodbot> Current chairs: pbrobinson pwhalen
14:00:48 <pbrobinson> #topic roll call
14:01:09 <pbrobinson> hello all, welcome to the first IoT WG meeting :)
14:01:14 <pbrobinson> who do we have around?
14:01:31 <mrizo___> Hi Peter, this is Marc Rizo
14:01:36 * pwhalen is here
14:01:39 <pbrobinson> hey Marc
14:01:41 * ctron is here
14:01:52 * jsmith is here
14:02:00 <pbrobinson> hey ctron, jsmith
14:04:02 <pbrobinson> right, will give people just one more minute and we'll get under way
14:05:00 <pbrobinson> lets go!
14:05:01 <pbrobinson> #topic 1) ==== Working Group process and admin  ====
14:05:24 <pbrobinson> so I'm a little behind writing all of this up.
14:05:53 <pbrobinson> #info we'll document the IoT Working Group here https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/InternetOfThings
14:06:17 <pbrobinson> I plan on having a good go and getting most of it done next week, if anyone wished to help out do let me know
14:06:39 <pbrobinson> once I've done the draft I'll email a link to the email list asking for some feedback
14:07:05 <pbrobinson> does anyone have any queries on the working group process bits?
14:07:15 <jsmith> pbrobinson: Just one quick comment
14:07:38 <pbrobinson> jsmith: sure, go for it
14:07:49 <jsmith> Once the wiki page has settled a bit, I'll volunteer to convert that over to the docs site, where the other Council initiatives are supposedly documenting their owrk
14:07:52 <jsmith> work, that is
14:08:13 <jsmith> In the short term, however, wiki is better/easier/faster :-)
14:08:16 <pbrobinson> jsmith: are we better off doing it there from the outset?
14:08:39 <pbrobinson> ah, perfect, have you got a link to any of the others that I can also use for references ;)
14:09:06 <ctron> I have lots of questions around Fedora processes .. I but I think this would be a bit too much for this meeting ;-) I will listen and try to learn about it.
14:09:53 <jsmith> #link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/fedora-project/project/objectives.html
14:09:59 <pbrobinson> ctron: want to ask any getting started ones now about the Working Group bits?
14:10:13 <pbrobinson> #chair pwhalen pbrobinson jsmith
14:10:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: jsmith pbrobinson pwhalen
14:10:51 <pbrobinson> thx jsmith
14:10:51 <jsmith> Here's the link to Modularity's docs, for example: https://docs.pagure.org/modularity/
14:11:27 <ctron> Well maybe, what would be the planned output for the working group
14:12:22 <pbrobinson> ctron: initial focus will be on a base OS image usable for IoT and a number of containers to run on top. Further into the future it could be a complete end to end stack.
14:13:29 <pbrobinson> OK, anything more for Working Group?
14:14:06 <mrizo___> pbrobinson: which kind of help will you need today?
14:15:06 <pbrobinson> mrizo___: around the working group bits it's initially mostly docs and process, we'll likely get more into the helping bits in the next couple of topics which move more technical
14:15:19 <pbrobinson> happy to have help with WG admins bits too though
14:15:54 <pbrobinson> #topic 2) ==== Nightly builds  ====
14:16:45 <pbrobinson> so the nightly builds are almost ready to go. There's a few issues but they are generally now usable to the point people can start to kick the tires
14:17:08 <pbrobinson> #info nightly builds are almost ready to go. Details will be sent out later today
14:17:36 <pbrobinson> #info initial getting started guide is at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/InternetOfThings/GettingStarted feedback welcome
14:17:45 <pbrobinson> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/InternetOfThings/GettingStarted
14:17:51 <ctron> How do they differ from a "normal" Fedora installation?
14:18:04 <pbrobinson> ctron: purely OSTree based
14:18:15 <pbrobinson> so no dnf and related utils
14:18:42 <pbrobinson> and they're quite small
14:18:52 <ctron> so you would be able to build an "image" for a specific device and distribute that?
14:19:16 <pbrobinson> there's still some work to do around dependencies and a RFE with dnf/rpm-ostree about disabling weak dependencies
14:20:05 <pbrobinson> ctron: the short term plan is there will be a number of reference devices which is what we'll closely test
14:20:21 <pbrobinson> #info short term plan is there will be a number of reference devices which is what we'll closely test
14:20:40 <ctron> absolutely … But if I (as a device manufacturer) would like to create a custom image .. that would be possible?
14:20:54 <pbrobinson> #info most supported devices should work but the focus due to resources will be around testing reference devices
14:21:39 <pbrobinson> ctron: yes, eventually there will be details on how to respin, or more likely how to add a vendor kernel to support specific devices
14:21:47 <ctron> cool
14:22:00 <ctron> have you thought about adding the Intel UP2 to the list?
14:22:16 <pbrobinson> but in the short term we obviously need to focus on devices available for people to use with the Fedora binaries/kernel etc
14:22:55 <ctron> +1
14:23:09 <pbrobinson> ctron: when I can get mine stable it might well be added to that list. The list isn't set in stone, it's currently a starting point
14:23:27 <ctron> sounds good!
14:24:38 <pbrobinson> #info I'll be sending details of the nightly image builds out to the IoT later today. Feedback on both the getting started docs and the images is very welcome
14:25:30 <pbrobinson> #info initial architectures will be aarch64 and x86_64, I'm working to add ARMv7 to the images in the next few weeks.
14:25:36 <pbrobinson> #topic 3) ==== Stable releases ====
14:25:57 <pbrobinson> I think it's probably a little early to discuss too much about stable releases
14:26:33 <pbrobinson> I'm hoping to do the first release probably in late June and then move to monthly releases#
14:26:46 <pbrobinson> anyone have any thoughts or opinions?
14:29:02 <pwhalen> sounds great so far
14:29:13 <pbrobinson> OK, not doubt this will become more apparent once people are able to provide feedback on nightly composes
14:29:14 <pbrobinson> #topic 4) ==== IoT veritcals and use case focus ====
14:30:24 <pbrobinson> anyone have ideas or interest in particular verticals?
14:31:42 <ctron> well one use case could be 4DIAC PLC runtime
14:31:55 <ctron> or in general … being a PLC runtime …
14:32:14 <pbrobinson> ctron: for those that aren't aware what is a PLC runtime?
14:32:41 <ctron> sorry :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_logic_controller
14:33:13 <pwhalen> heh, thanks pbrobinson (and ctron)
14:33:44 <ctron> In a nutshell it is a single purpose device, which allows to be programmed from the outside and continues to process analog and digital information in a simple, yet reliable way
14:33:48 <pbrobinson> #info one vertical could be PLC runtime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_logic_controller such as 4DIAC PLC runtime
14:33:59 <pbrobinson> sounds good
14:34:02 <ctron> in other words … it is a professional variant of node red :)
14:35:20 <pbrobinson> yes so some of the other ideas are industrial gateways, home IoT hubs like Mozilla IoT Web of things gateway
14:35:33 <pbrobinson> #info some of the other ideas are industrial gateways, home IoT hubs like Mozilla IoT Web of things gateway
14:36:08 <pbrobinson> #link https://www.eclipse.org/4diac/
14:36:27 <pbrobinson> anyone else?
14:36:28 <ctron> one thing could also be a resin.io device
14:36:46 <ctron> I think they are currently aiming for yocto, but maybe there could be an alternative to that
14:36:53 <pbrobinson> jsmith: mrizo___: thoughts from you?
14:37:31 <pbrobinson> ctron: that's possible, I've not looked closely at how the resin.io bits work for updates and OS support
14:38:00 <mrizo___> pbrobinson: there could be one on aarch64 and one on x86.
14:38:20 <ctron> for distributing update we might also have a look at Eclipse Hawkbit, the do offer some software for rollout of new image versions ... which would match with the ostree idea
14:38:58 <pbrobinson> ctron: I believe there's already been some work with hawkbit to work with OSTree
14:39:34 <mrizo___> The IoT could be use for a GateWay/Router based on the chip I mention earlier
14:39:39 <ctron> that could be true, yes  ...
14:41:08 <pbrobinson> mrizo___: yes, IoT gateway functionality it #1 on my list, I know there's also interest around router/SND/network functionality too
14:41:36 <pbrobinson> #info IoT Gateway as well as router/SND/network functionality
14:41:47 <pbrobinson> OK
14:42:07 <pbrobinson> so we don't run out of time I'm going to move on
14:42:08 <pbrobinson> #topic 5) ==== Feature request and requirements ====
14:42:26 <pbrobinson> this is one to thing about for Fedora 29, and what we want in General
14:43:03 <pbrobinson> #info Fedora 29 schedule https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/29/Schedule
14:43:26 <ctron> I can only think of proper Raspberry Pi support
14:43:27 <pbrobinson> #info Fedora change process https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes
14:44:31 <pbrobinson> so I have a number of features for IoT, the #1 there is obviously ARMv7 support. Basically I'm working on grub2 support so we have a unified process to deal with boot flow and hence updates/rollback of OSTree
14:45:11 <pbrobinson> ctron: Raspberry Pi support in what respect? We also have core functionality there, is there something specific you were thinking of/wanting?
14:45:38 <ctron> well bluetooth was an issue for me the last time I checked
14:45:43 <ctron> as was GPIO support
14:45:53 <x3mboy> .hello2
14:45:54 <zodbot> x3mboy: x3mboy 'Eduard Lucena' <eduardlucena@gmail.com>
14:45:56 <pbrobinson> ctron: bluetooth is fine in F-28
14:46:14 <mrizo___> pbrobinson: support for RPi ARMv7 you mentionned will be in 32, 64 bits or both?
14:46:19 <x3mboy> !
14:46:58 <pbrobinson> mrizo___: when I refer to ARMv7 I mean 32 bit, we already support 64 bit (aarch64) on the RPi3 for the IoT images
14:46:59 <mrizo___> Also, another feature would be containers
14:47:07 <pbrobinson> mrizo___: already there ;-)
14:47:14 <mrizo___> :-)
14:47:42 <pbrobinson> mrizo___: there's a small bit covering containers in the getting started link above
14:48:00 <pbrobinson> no doubt we'll enhance/tweak that as we go
14:48:39 <pbrobinson> ctron: and on GPIO, it works but you are correct it needs some improvement, not just on the RPi TBH
14:48:42 <mrizo___> since the IoT is not yet out, how can I access list of what is present today?
14:49:08 <pbrobinson> mrizo___: I'll put an overview in the email I send out with details of the nightly images
14:50:18 <pbrobinson> OK. We can cover some more of this next week once people have had time to play with the nightly images
14:50:22 <pbrobinson> #topic 6) ==== Flock conference ====
14:50:49 <pbrobinson> just a note here, Flock which is Fedora
14:51:06 * pwhalen will be there
14:51:08 <pbrobinson> Fedora's annual conference is in August in Dresden
14:51:15 <pbrobinson> #link https://flocktofedora.org/
14:51:33 <pbrobinson> #info Call For Papers is now open, closes mid June.
14:51:43 <ctron> Yea ... so unfortunately I won't be able to attend
14:52:08 <pbrobinson> #info I will be submitting a couple of IoT BoFs (Birds of a Feature) for feedback and also a hackfest event
14:52:24 * jsmith isn't sure he'll be able to attend Flock either :-/
14:52:44 <pbrobinson> jsmith: :-(
14:53:44 <pbrobinson> #topic 7) ==== Open Floor ====
14:54:02 <pbrobinson> right with just a few minutes left does anyone have any general business?
14:54:26 <ctron> no .. thx for the meeeting!
14:54:44 <mrizo___> only one question...
14:55:04 <pbrobinson> mrizo___: sure, go for it
14:55:32 <mrizo___> remember: I am a beginner on Fedora, so pardon my French! where are located the "IoT" nightly build?
14:56:21 <pbrobinson> mrizo___: Details will be in the email I send out in a couple of hours
14:56:28 <mrizo___> :-)
14:56:51 <pbrobinson> mrizo___: and they'll also be linked to from the getting started page, I have a couple of minor things to do before I can add that information
14:57:33 <mrizo___> pbrobinson: OK: good for me
14:57:56 <pbrobinson> anyone with anything else?
14:58:22 * pwhalen has nothing
14:58:56 <pbrobinson> thank you all
14:58:59 <pbrobinson> #endmeeting