famna
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01:05:58 <juggler[m]> #startmeeting FAmNA - 2018-03-22
01:05:58 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Mar 23 01:05:58 2018 UTC.  The chair is juggler[m]. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
01:05:58 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
01:05:58 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famna_-_2018-03-22'
01:06:10 <juggler[m]> #meetingname FAmNA
01:06:10 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famna'
01:06:21 <juggler[m]> #chair juggler
01:06:21 <zodbot> Current chairs: juggler juggler[m]
01:06:30 <award3535> #topic === FAmNA Roll Call ===
01:06:32 <juggler[m]> #chair nb
01:06:32 <zodbot> Current chairs: juggler juggler[m] nb
01:06:43 <juggler[m]> #chair award3535
01:06:43 <zodbot> Current chairs: award3535 juggler juggler[m] nb
01:06:58 * juggler[m] hands the reins to award3535
01:06:59 <nb> hi award3535
01:07:14 <award3535> evening all, sorry was a little behind tonight
01:07:33 <juggler[m]> no worries award :)
01:07:41 <juggler[m]> hello all
01:07:48 <award3535> #topic === Announcements ===
01:08:12 <award3535> nb do you have anything for us that you can put out tonight?
01:08:25 <nb> the mindshare article has been published to commblog
01:08:28 <nb> everyone should read it
01:08:44 <nb> we (mindshare committee) will also be starting discussion about more changes to how ambassadors work soon
01:09:04 <award3535> nb link?
01:09:24 <nb> https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/mindshare-monthly-report-fad-first-actions/
01:09:24 * paradoxguitarist wanders in
01:09:41 <award3535> #chair paradoxguitarist
01:09:41 <zodbot> Current chairs: award3535 juggler juggler[m] nb paradoxguitarist
01:09:41 <nb> some ideas we have are: making the regions more a facility for communications, centralize budget
01:09:54 <nb> make it easier to do small events by only requiring approval from 1 commitee member
01:10:07 <nb> budget will not be allocated per region anymore
01:10:16 <nb> credit card holders can pay bills for other regions
01:10:55 <nb> One important point: We focus on our 3 editions, Workstation, Server, Atomic, and the 3 objectives, CI, Modularity, IoT
01:11:03 <nb> those are what we want to allocate our budget and time to
01:11:34 <nb> all events should be focused around one (or more) of those 6 things.  Otherwise that will drastically reduce how much budget you are given
01:11:46 <nb> Yes, that means that events like SELF need to not push spins
01:11:56 <nb> the project does not choose to spend our money promoting spins
01:12:13 <nb> (I've discussed this offline with Andrew and Ben)
01:12:39 <nb> We can give out spins if people specifically ask for it, but we don't offer it or proactively ask them what desktop they want
01:13:16 <nb> also, in general, we need to examine why we do each event.  "because we always have" is not an answer.  "because the event expects us to be there" is not an answer
01:13:28 <award3535> https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/mindshare-monthly-report-fad-first-actions
01:14:14 <nb> we are being asked to evaluate each event VS our goals and does that fit in to what we want to promote
01:14:27 <nb> EOF (I think), comments? questions?
01:14:37 * nb was at the mindshare FAD so I can try to answer questions if anyone has any
01:15:24 <award3535> nb also mentioned to me that there will be a ambassadors input session in the near future as well
01:15:45 <nb> <takes mindshare committee hat off, puts personal hat on>I am optimistic about these changes, I think it will be hard for some people to accept, but it sounds like it will be good to align our efforts with our goals
01:15:53 <paradoxguitarist> If we're invited to speak at specific events that are centric to specific spins, is the committee going to deny/block those when asking for small things? Stickers, 1-2 swag items to give out?
01:15:59 <nb> paradoxguitarist, nol.
01:16:08 <nb> paradoxguitarist, no. We may not give you (much) budget
01:16:19 <nb> but we can send stuff like some stickers, small amounts of swag, etc
01:16:25 <nb> but you probably won't get much (if any) money
01:16:28 <paradoxguitarist> So example would be I'm asked to speak at a security conference.
01:16:37 <nb> paradoxguitarist, hmm
01:16:44 <nb> paradoxguitarist, i think we would evaluate each situation
01:16:44 <paradoxguitarist> Seems silly to not mention the security spin there.
01:17:01 * juggler[m] concurs
01:17:01 <nb> paradoxguitarist, I think if there is something like that, it may be approved
01:17:06 <paradoxguitarist> but costs are 25 stickers and 2 tshirts to give away.
01:17:11 <paradoxguitarist> and nothing else
01:17:24 <nb> paradoxguitarist, that would be fine
01:17:45 <nb> we are not saying we will not support stuff at all (at least WRT swag)
01:18:10 <award3535> this is where LFNW will also have difficulties in the event planning as well
01:18:19 <paradoxguitarist> yeah, I wanted to clarify for logs and those that can't be here.
01:18:42 <nb> award3535, yes. they will need to justify what they hope to accomplish there.  And how that fits in to one of the 6 focus points that i mentioned
01:18:52 <nb> otherwise, they will probably not get budget.
01:18:56 <nb> same thing we are running into with SELF
01:19:15 <nb> At this point, I think we are not going to LFNW
01:19:24 <nb> at least I haven't heard of anyone
01:19:30 <award3535> nb I agree, but the current focus is nowhere near any of this
01:19:41 <reher> .hello reher
01:19:41 <award3535> #chair reher
01:19:41 <zodbot> Current chairs: award3535 juggler juggler[m] nb paradoxguitarist reher
01:19:42 <zodbot> reher: reher 'Rosnel Echevarria' <rosnel.echevarria@gmail.com>
01:19:46 <nb> award3535, focus of what? focus of our events?
01:19:49 <paradoxguitarist> Having been to LFNW there's a lot of personal users, or people that are interested in trying Linux for the first time. Where it would fit in would be Worstation focused.
01:19:50 <juggler[m]> heyhey reher
01:20:01 <paradoxguitarist> as in helping people install fedora for the first time.
01:20:02 <reher> Hi all. Apologies. At work dealing with a prod issue :/
01:20:19 <reher> juggler[m], paradoxguitarist, award3535 evening!
01:20:24 <juggler[m]> reher thx for stopping by...
01:20:24 <award3535> objectives and goal of one of the big three
01:20:27 <nb> paradoxguitarist, yes, that would be acceptable from what I understand. If they say they want to promote Fedora Workstation
01:20:46 <paradoxguitarist> Hard to do that without media to give out ;)
01:21:00 <nb> paradoxguitarist, we have a duplicator
01:21:06 <nb> and you can budget for blank media to use
01:21:12 <nb> award3535, yeah, I know this will be a change.  Although do note that Fedora Workstation is one of the Editions, so it would qualify
01:21:54 <paradoxguitarist> AFAIK we can get a table for free there, but we've always sponsored anyways.
01:22:12 <award3535> nb you are correct, but no where in is objectives does it even mention it that is what I was getting at
01:22:31 <nb> award3535, it's not an objective. Objectives is Modularity, CI, IoT
01:22:35 <nb> award3535, it's one of the 3 editions
01:22:47 <nb> we promote the 3 editions and 3 objectives. That is the focus for our efforts and budget
01:23:00 <nb> not to say we can't do other small or inexpensive events that don't focus on those 6 topics
01:23:02 <award3535> no where does the workstation edition mentioned
01:23:06 <nb> but they probably won't get much funding
01:23:21 <paradoxguitarist> Workstation is an edition
01:23:25 <juggler[m]> hopefully those are interesting objectives for the general community. I'm interested in those topics, but is the average general community member interested...
01:23:35 <nb> award3535, https://getfedora.org/
01:23:48 <nb> juggler[m], Again, Fedora Workstation is one of the areas we focus on
01:23:52 <nb> but not the Fedora Spins.
01:24:07 <nb> award3535, the 3 editions on that page are our focus points also
01:24:19 <nb> and it's also listed on the commblog article (and I'm sure this will be documented elsewhere also)
01:24:22 <paradoxguitarist> actually since LFNW is a lot of hobbists, IoT for home projects would do well there.
01:24:24 <nb> on the wiki or in the council docs or something
01:24:33 <award3535> nb not that, I am talking about LFNW and no where does the request mention workstation
01:24:52 <nb> award3535, yes, i agree with you
01:24:57 <paradoxguitarist> It's gonna have to be ammended.
01:25:14 <nb> paradoxguitarist, do we have anyone to own LFNW? Jeff Sandys said he wasn't going to
01:25:25 <paradoxguitarist> I wasn't aware.
01:25:36 <award3535> LFNW will have to be completely redone just like mine
01:26:23 <paradoxguitarist> We have another ambassador in the area. He was at the west meeting
01:26:38 <award3535> paradoxguitarist you can contact me offline, and yes that is steelaworkn
01:26:40 <paradoxguitarist> He's helped out at the booth there. I'm blanking on his name
01:26:52 <juggler[m]> yeah!
01:27:44 <award3535> I will try to get ahold of steelaworkn
01:28:29 <juggler[m]> offhand, do we have any ambassadors near Vancouver?
01:28:30 <juggler[m]> near/in
01:28:47 <nb> I think we may start to take advantage of free booths more
01:28:54 <nb> especially at traditional linuxfests
01:29:04 <nb> because the discussion is basically how much do we gain by going to them?
01:29:10 <nb> most people already have their preferred distro
01:29:15 <nb> so we aren't gaining many users by being there
01:29:17 <juggler[m]> nb: not sure if we'll have that luxury for SCaLE17x
01:29:18 <nb> is that thought
01:29:28 <nb> juggler[m], i thought they always gave us one?
01:30:00 <juggler[m]> they did, but we didn't get a FAD this year. that was certainly felt.
01:30:23 <nb> so are you thinking that's because we didn't sponsor?
01:30:58 <juggler[m]> hard to say, but it could be a factor
01:31:20 <nb> well, it depends on what we want a FAD for? do we have concrete goals for a FAD?
01:31:27 <nb> and how much $ do they require to let us have a FAD
01:31:27 <juggler[m]> I requested a FAD room multiple times and it never came to be
01:31:54 <paradoxguitarist> If we need a room for a FAD with a concrete plan ahead of time, we can probably get one.
01:31:59 <nb> I think we are so focused sometimes on "we always do this" and not on what we really hope to accomplish
01:32:18 <paradoxguitarist> yeah, I think you're right nb
01:32:22 <juggler[m]> I think it's not so much the amount as it is that we put some small amount in, I think
01:32:25 <nb> yeah, I know we have had FADs at SCALE before, but what did they accomplish? (not saying we shouldn't have one, but i haven't really heard much about what happened)
01:32:34 <juggler[m]> correction nominal amount
01:32:35 <paradoxguitarist> BeefyConnection
01:32:42 <paradoxguitarist> that was a project we got done once
01:32:48 <nb> oh? what is it?
01:32:51 <paradoxguitarist> actually it was two years that we did that
01:33:02 <paradoxguitarist> scanning login for booth
01:33:06 <paradoxguitarist> for followup.
01:33:15 <nb> oh
01:33:21 * nb wonders why we have never used it since then
01:33:24 <nb> sounds like a nice thing
01:33:36 <paradoxguitarist> award3535: https://github.com/vwbusguy/beefy-connection
01:34:30 <nb> I think the idea is that traditional linuxfests are more of "meet current users and help them with stuff" and the focus is changing to be more of "how can we get more new users"
01:34:47 <paradoxguitarist> Features to come (patches welcome!) - Export/import of data.
01:35:21 <juggler[m]> nb: FAD was day2 in this rollup: https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/scale-15x-event-report/
01:35:32 <award3535> I am going to shift to open floor
01:35:44 <award3535> no tickets are to be discussed tonigh
01:36:00 <nb> hmm nice
01:36:01 <award3535> #topic == Open Floor ===
01:36:15 <juggler[m]> not sure about the logistics or interest, but there's this event:
01:36:15 <juggler[m]> https://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/open-source-summit-north-america-2018/
01:36:35 <juggler[m]> Paradox and I volunteered for it last year. It was great
01:37:15 <paradoxguitarist> Lucky that it was so close.
01:37:23 <juggler[m]> it's based in Vancouver though, which might prove challenging budgetwise
01:37:30 <juggler[m]> (at least for this year)
01:37:36 <juggler[m]> PG I know, right??
01:38:17 <nb> what sort of audience is there?
01:38:24 <nb> what do we hope to accomplish by being there?
01:38:25 <juggler[m]> that's why I asked about any Vancouver ambassadors earlier, in case anyone was wondering...
01:38:35 <paradoxguitarist> But Red Hat was there. There are plenty of Red Hatters that would be good for it.
01:38:51 <nb> I think the amount of budget isn't as important as having a real plan (other than "coming up with something to check the boxes")
01:38:52 <paradoxguitarist> Modulatity would be a good fit there.
01:38:55 <juggler[m]> nb: mixed bag - commercial and some open efforts
01:39:05 <juggler[m]> pg: indeed
01:39:14 <nb> I think it'd be easier to get more budget with a good plan than less budget with a poor plan
01:39:16 <paradoxguitarist> Mostly commercial focused.
01:40:18 <paradoxguitarist> More high level technical people there. But easy pickings to convince all the engineers to start using Fedora.
01:40:24 <award3535> nb I will completely retool SELF
01:40:27 <nb> hmm, then that might be a good fit
01:40:35 <nb> award3535, yeah, I wasn't picking on SELF
01:40:40 <nb> or at least I didn't intend to be
01:40:48 * nb wants to see us do SELF, you know i love that event
01:40:56 <award3535> nb no worries, I knew what was coming
01:40:57 * nb has been there like 4-5 times I think nwo
01:41:09 <juggler[m]> I think the challenging part would be figuring out how to get an event box there and back if there are no local ambassadors in Vancouver...
01:41:13 <award3535> nb this will be number 6 for me
01:41:30 <nb> we can arrange shipping if we have to
01:41:39 <nb> or if someone is close enough to drive from USA
01:42:03 <juggler[m]> but the question is where would the stuff "live" before the event ... :)
01:42:20 <paradoxguitarist> There were at least 15 red hat people there when it was in LA.
01:42:26 <nb> we also discussed at the FAD the question of why do we not ever pay for meals for booth staff
01:42:34 <nb> but yet if we have a FAD we pay for food for everyone
01:42:39 <nb> maybe that will change
01:42:47 <paradoxguitarist> RH had a large presense. We might be able to ship to RH and have them bring stuff with their shipments.
01:42:49 <juggler[m]> I do hope
01:42:51 <nb> and that that can keep some people from traveling, especially to high cost areas
01:43:42 <paradoxguitarist> RH might cover travel costs if a RH employee is going to help fedora booth.
01:43:45 <nb> if they have to pay for food and they are a student or otherwise don't have much money
01:44:01 <nb> because some areas like ca.us are expensive
01:44:08 <paradoxguitarist> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
01:44:13 <juggler[m]> RH was very helpful at SCaLE too. they dropped off a box of Fedora USB thumb drives for guests. Guests were very happy about that.
01:44:18 <nb> nice
01:44:55 <juggler[m]> hmmm..I wonder if we have any RedHatters that live near Vancouver...ponders
01:45:11 <nb> what are your thoughts about us paying for meals for people?
01:45:37 <juggler[m]> define "us"
01:46:56 <paradoxguitarist> I think it's a nice thing to do for people that we don't really have to
01:47:17 <award3535> nb I do have a question about the fedorator
01:47:38 <nb> juggler[m], us == fedora
01:47:43 <nb> meals for people working at booths
01:47:56 <nb> award3535, yes?
01:48:00 <nb> I am not sure how to update them
01:48:05 <nb> you change some stuff on the SD card is really all i know
01:48:19 <nb> sanqui is supposed to be documenting it
01:48:23 <award3535> who do we contact to get that done....
01:48:40 <juggler[m]> nb: I think meals for booth people would be very gracious
01:49:09 <nb> award3535, sanqui@fedoraproject.org is the one who developed them
01:49:21 <award3535> nb thank you....
01:49:38 <nb> juggler[m], i think it is a good idea, I know it can affect sometimes if people want to go to events if they have to pay for typically expensive food at events
01:49:55 <nb> there is also some discussion going on about requiring sharing rooms
01:50:03 <nb> because some people for whatever reason may not want/be able to share a room
01:50:11 <nb> and there's some discussion about should we be requring it
01:50:44 <juggler[m]> nb: also, it encourages people to continue volunteering. we had a new guy assist in LA, but  it's uncertain if he would like to continue as an ambassador. gotta encourage people :)
01:51:52 <nb> yeah
01:52:20 <juggler[m]> nb: depends...do RedHat personnel have to share a room?
01:53:16 <award3535> juggler(m) that is an entirely different budget than us
01:54:28 <paradoxguitarist> not all rooms are created equal as well.
01:54:29 <juggler[m]> oh, other open floor item: we could definitely use more shirts. we had so few shirts to give out this time, and most of the sizes were S and XS.
01:55:09 <award3535> that is a topic the mindshare folks will discuss about swag
01:55:18 <award3535> with input from us
01:55:40 <juggler[m]> I sure hope so
01:55:44 <nb> juggler[m], i don't intend to order shirts
01:55:52 <nb> they are too expensive and too little impact
01:55:59 <award3535> five minutes left folks.....
01:56:15 <nb> if we want to spend that much money, order flash drive
01:56:16 <nb> s
01:56:25 <juggler[m]> not sure about the too little impact...
01:56:28 <award3535> nb that is a better idea
01:57:53 <award3535> ok folks lets end the meeting....
01:58:17 <juggler[m]> regarding the event badges, I think the event owner should have a say on whether they accept the design
01:58:46 <juggler[m]> I spent some quality time designing our local effort's badge, only for some other design to be used eventually
01:58:48 <award3535> juggler(m) when do you plan to hold the west coast meeting
01:58:53 <juggler[m]> that was felt
01:59:21 <juggler[m]> I think I emailed that...one moment
01:59:36 <juggler[m]> 2nd of April
01:59:44 <award3535> ok
02:00:23 <award3535> Next FAmNA meeting (west) 2 April 2018
02:00:34 <juggler[m]> 7pm
02:00:34 <juggler[m]> pacific
02:00:52 <juggler[m]> anyhow, that was my 2 cents on badges. not sure I'll be designing one for SCaLE 17x.
02:01:10 <award3535> thanks for showing up everyone, sorry I was a little late, and yes juggler(m) will resend a reminder out as well
02:01:38 <award3535> #endmeeting