mindshare
LOGS
20:06:12 <jwf> #startmeeting Fedora Mindshare Committee - 2018-02-20
20:06:12 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Feb 20 20:06:12 2018 UTC.  The chair is jwf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:06:12 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:06:12 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_mindshare_committee_-_2018-02-20'
20:06:16 <jwf> #meetingname mindshare
20:06:16 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'mindshare'
20:06:18 <jwf> #topic Roll call
20:06:24 <jwf> .hello jflory7
20:06:25 <zodbot> jwf: jflory7 'Justin W. Flory' <jflory7@gmail.com>
20:06:47 <nb> .hello2
20:06:48 <zodbot> nb: nb 'Nick Bebout' <nb@nb.zone>
20:06:54 <jwf> Some of us are here but we're waiting for robyduck to arrive to chair.
20:07:09 <jwf> I'm in work meeting and not 100% following here
20:07:14 <jwf> #chair nb jsmith
20:07:14 <zodbot> Current chairs: jsmith jwf nb
20:07:38 <bexelbie[m]> Walking up stairs to the land of faster internet.
20:08:07 <jsmith> Howdy, all!
20:10:10 <bexelbie> .hello bex
20:10:11 <zodbot> bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' <bex@pobox.com>
20:10:23 <jsmith> bexelbie: Welcome back to "real" internet :-)
20:10:28 <bexelbie> ty
20:10:31 <jwf> #chair bexelbie
20:10:31 <zodbot> Current chairs: bexelbie jsmith jwf nb
20:10:34 * jwf waves
20:10:44 * bexelbie should look into a different irc solution for his mobile
20:13:42 <bexelbie> ...
20:13:42 <bexelbie> ?
20:13:57 <jsmith> OK, do we have an agenda?
20:14:02 <jsmith> Or topics we want to discuss?
20:14:36 <bexelbie> I have none pending the FAD in two weeks
20:14:54 <bexelbie> I believe everyone who is going to be there is fully equipped with tranist
20:14:56 <bexelbie> transit
20:15:02 <bexelbie> I am verifying the hotel tomorrow morning
20:15:13 <bexelbie> s/verifying/paying for/
20:16:21 <jwf> Okay, I was relieved from the meeting… really confusing day
20:16:28 <jwf> I'm trying to remember where we left off last week?
20:16:30 <jwf> Oh
20:16:34 <jwf> I know I had something actually
20:16:41 <jwf> Did anyone see my email on the list earlier?
20:17:03 <jwf> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/mindshare@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/UTQ2SEXYCAF2P5SIJZP4WJUYPFHUI43X/
20:17:38 <bexelbie> I saw your email - did not answer because $reasons
20:17:55 <bexelbie> my answer is that the FAD goals are "jumpstart/bootstrap the group"
20:18:21 <bexelbie> This is a weird circumstance where we have a new group and we need it to have a fast takeoff without much runway, if I can be allowed some idioms
20:18:38 <jwf> #topic FAD planning
20:19:03 <jwf> Yeah, makes sense.
20:19:15 <jwf> I think we can probably come up with more concrete goals than that before our FAD.
20:19:50 <jwf> I see it as an important task to create a proposal for our FAD in the similar template / format of other FAD proposals, for two reasons:
20:20:16 <jwf> (1) Better prepare us for what we want to focus on when we arrive, and we can get to the point with our valuable but short time together
20:20:33 <jwf> (2) Sets a positive precedent for future FADs
20:21:00 <jwf> It was odd to me to not see anything other than the ticket
20:21:48 <bexelbie> I think the ticket is an artifact YE timing more than anything.  I agree that an agenda would be helpful and I know robyduck is gathering one
20:21:58 <bexelbie> it looks like he has been tied up tonight and can't make it
20:22:30 <jwf> Okay, that's fine, life happens
20:22:35 <jwf> So… what are the goals for this FAD?
20:23:00 <jwf> I feel like I'm a little in the dark about what our own agenda is, so maybe we can try to illuminate some of the confusion during this meeting.
20:23:25 <bexelbie> - How can we increase cooperation amongst groups to get us all talking about the common new points and goals of Fedora - News is made by new things
20:23:50 <bexelbie> - what concrete actions can we take to resolve the issues that created mindshare, such as ambassadors feeling disconnected from other groups
20:24:13 <bexelbie> - Do we have areas we can focus on across the project at once to get greater impact, and then cycle to other topics allowing us to lift all boats, but sequentially
20:24:57 <bexelbie> - what can we do streamline mechanics around things like ambassadors/swag/design/etc. to help groups spend more time doing and less time doing scaffold word
20:24:58 <bexelbie> work
20:25:03 <bexelbie> those are some that are on my list
20:26:11 <jwf> #info === FAD goal brainstorming ===
20:26:12 <jsmith> Yeah, my number one item is "How do we properly revitalize and equip the Ambassadors to be successful?"
20:26:36 <jwf> #idea 1. Increase cooperation among groups: Get us talking on common points / goals of Fedora
20:26:38 <jsmith> and close behind that is "What do people expect of us, and how do we measure success?"
20:27:02 <jwf> #idea 2. Solving problems / issues that led to creation of Mindshare (e.g. Ambassador disconnect from other groups)
20:27:29 <jwf> #idea 3. Streamline mechanics around Ambassadors / swag / design (less time scaffolding, more time doing)
20:27:54 <jwf> jsmith: +1
20:28:00 <bexelbie> I think a key thing here is that this group is supposed to be bringing together the "voices" of many groups ... how can we enable that.  Which may mean figuring out a way to work that doesn't involve lots of synchronous meetings
20:28:13 <bexelbie> jsmith, also +1 to that :)
20:28:38 <jwf> Also helpful:
20:28:40 <jwf> #link https://pagure.io/mindshare/issues
20:29:15 <jwf> #idea 4. What do people expect of us and how do we measure success?
20:30:42 <jwf> I think developing a communication strategy will be important for all of these topics
20:30:49 <jwf> Which is really vague
20:31:14 <jwf> But I think will be helpful to come up with an idea of how we want to use available project resources to drive improved communication
20:32:10 <jsmith> Agreed
20:33:03 <jwf> Also walking back through things like these, to think about what has already been communicated. I think one of the problems we need to consider is that there hasn't been a central body to deliver the message of Fedora, so different groups have received different instructions over the years
20:33:04 <jwf> #link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/new-guidelines-fedora-ambassadors-design/
20:33:47 <bexelbie> yes.  Which may also mean that we need to look at what do we want today, not what did we have X years ago ...
20:34:17 <jwf> Another really abstract idea but something I think is important is centralizing information: not just what we communicate, but how and where we communicate
20:35:53 <bexelbie> well it is good we have the docs FAD before this one ;)
20:36:02 <jwf> bexelbie: Right, agreed completely, but I also suspect that could be some of our resistance from people who have been around for a while and have seen similar efforts before (but I think past efforts have not had the same support as we do now)
20:36:34 <jwf> I imagine FUD that this isn't "yet another approach to solve communication" and why this time is so different
20:36:45 <jwf> Not that I agree with that but I think that's some of the mindset that's out there
20:36:48 <jwf> Maybe I'm wrong
20:36:49 <bexelbie> I agree.  This isn't a burn everything down comment.  But a let's actually create a roadmap to get there even if it is not evolutionary
20:36:53 * jwf nods
20:37:38 <jsmith> +1 from me
20:39:29 <jwf> I think an approach that focuses on bootstrapping this committee and figuring out our strategies to solve these problems is helpful. Even if we don't immediately begin engaging with Ambassadors / Marketing / Design / etc., I think that's okay
20:41:13 <jwf> From what I observed with FOSCo, I think the "bootstrapping" problem was the thing that held them up. So I also see focusing a day on our own "internals" makes sense
20:41:23 <bexelbie> +1
20:41:40 <jwf> I feel like I'm jumping around a bit, not sure if this discussion is helpful or if we're all nodding in agreement at each other, hahah
20:43:25 <jwf> It would be cool to get this into a concrete FAD proposal document anyways, like a wiki page
20:43:27 <bexelbie> I think we are all nodding in agreement because we are ready to be focused on doing the work we are describing
20:43:34 * jwf nods
20:44:00 <jsmith> The way I see things, we need to get our own house in order first, and then expand outward to incorporate with marketing/design/ambassadors/etc.
20:44:10 <jsmith> But yes, I'm nodding in agreement a lot :-)
20:44:18 <jwf> I would be interested in driving a formal proposal or really thought-organization, but I think the probability of me getting this done before the Docs FAD is unlikely
20:45:13 <bexelbie> jwf I think that is the real reason for the FAD ... we need to jumpstart/bootstrap the group
20:45:29 <bexelbie> driving through a formal proposal on a new group like this will take longer than for an established group
20:45:39 <bexelbie> in this specific instance, a FAD like this makes sense
20:45:50 <bexelbie> an established group couldn't justify it under the same cirucmstances
20:45:56 <jwf> bexelbie: Yes, I agree; but I think it's poor example-setting for the group that intends to improve communication to not communicate what our goals and plans are, even if we don't know how it will all go
20:46:29 <jwf> I'm looking more at the "goals / impact / vision" than running through a number of steps or checking boxes
20:46:31 <bexelbie> considering the amount of conversation about forming this group and the how some have perceived it shared well and others as not shared at all
20:46:53 <bexelbie> i feel it has been well communicated what we are trying to do - I gather you don't and I respect htat
20:47:22 <bexelbie> I will support your driving a goals/impacts/visions document.  I do not have time before the FAD to originate it while also dealing with docs, year-end and other issues
20:47:43 <bexelbie> this FAD is serving as a forcing function to focus me on Mindshare - this is another reason we have FADs
20:49:25 <jwf> Fair about this group not being a well-established group yet, but this was a confusing detail for me, as to why we hadn't mapped out goals or proposed impact. I'm reluctant that the picture we could paint is that Fedora had budget leftover and wanted to use it on something, even though I see this as a highly-productive and helpful event
20:49:48 <jwf> I think we have communicated what we are, not what we are trying to do other than "improve collaboration"
20:50:01 <bexelbie> jwf the budget argument could hold water except htat $9K was earmarked for bootstrapping this group in early 2017
20:50:17 <bexelbie> so this is spend that was considered and voted by the council long ago
20:50:25 <jwf> I'd like to see if anyone else in the committee is interested in drafting it, but if not, I'll try really hard to do something on this, because I personally think it's valuable
20:51:24 <bexelbie> I am in favor of the drafting, I am not able to commmit time to more than reading/editing before the FAD
20:51:29 <jsmith> jwf: I'm happy to try to help you with it, but between ${DAYJOB} and ${GRADSCHOOL}, I can't spend hours and hours on it.
20:51:55 <Ender948> hi
20:51:58 <Ender948> sorry Im late
20:52:05 <jwf> bexelbie: Also fair… what you're saying makes sense. Maybe I am biased because I have been following this somewhat closely, but the Council ticket was also private until somewhat recently.
20:52:13 <jwf> jsmith: Tag-teaming it would be awesome.
20:52:26 <jwf> Since we're nearing the end, I can create an Etherpad and drop that to the list, we can sync up later?
20:52:46 <jwf> Ender948: Hi! Not sure if you are looking for the Mindshare meeting or something else. If not Mindshare, we're about to wrap up in about 5-10 minutes
20:52:59 <Ender948> ok
20:53:03 <jsmith> jwf: Sounds great.  I'm typically in IRC during business hours (Eastern US time)
20:53:29 <jwf> jsmith: That works for me too. I'll get the Etherpad to the list tonight, and then I'll set a reminder to follow up tomorrow in #fedora-mindshare
20:53:51 <jsmith> jwf: Sounds like a plan :-)
20:54:01 <jwf> \o/
20:54:05 <jwf> Let me make that official
20:54:27 <jwf> #action jwf Follow up with jsmith in channel to expand on FAD goals and impact in Etherpad (to be created and sent to list soon)
20:55:13 <jwf> That's all from me then.
20:55:28 <jwf> Not sure if anyone else wanted to throw something out before close?
20:56:35 * bexelbie is good and grateful for the work you all will do
20:56:40 <Ender948> Thank you
20:56:44 * Southern_Gentlem throws F21 DVDS
20:56:48 <Ender948> It is my pleasure to work with you too
20:56:56 <Ender948> I really enjoy my job here
20:57:59 <jsmith> jwf: Nothing further from me today...
20:58:09 <bexelbie> nb ?
20:58:35 <bexelbie> shall we call it?
20:58:40 <jwf> Okay, awesome. Thanks all for coming out! Maybe some of us will be in the same room for next week's meeting anyways, hahah.
20:58:43 <jwf> I'll get the minutes to the list.
20:58:45 <jwf> Ciao!
20:58:46 <jwf> #endmeeting