19:05:01 <Rhea> #startmeeting Fedora DotNet (2017-02-07)
19:05:01 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Feb  7 19:05:01 2017 UTC.  The chair is Rhea. Information about MeetBot at
19:05:01 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:05:01 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_dotnet_(2017-02-07)'
19:05:03 <Rhea> #meetingname dotnet
19:05:03 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'dotnet'
19:05:07 <Rhea> #nick dotnet
19:05:56 <Rhea> #chair bt0 rmartinelli nmilosev omajid tmds
19:05:56 <zodbot> Current chairs: Rhea bt0 nmilosev omajid rmartinelli tmds
19:06:07 <tmds> hi all!
19:06:15 <nmilosev> hello everyone!
19:06:16 <rkieley> hey tmds
19:06:17 <bt0> hi o/
19:06:24 <rkieley> hey all
19:07:03 <moto-timo> .hello ttorling
19:07:05 <zodbot> moto-timo: ttorling 'Tim Orling' <>
19:07:19 * jflory7 watches from the back
19:07:23 <Rhea> #topic Agenda
19:07:32 <Rhea> #link
19:07:34 <Rhea> #info (1) Roll Call
19:07:37 <Rhea> #info (2) Announcements
19:07:40 <Rhea> #info (3) Action items and Tickets
19:07:42 <Rhea> #info (4) Packaging progress
19:07:45 <Rhea> #info (5) Open Floor
19:07:49 <Rhea> #topic Roll Call
19:07:52 <Rhea> #info Name; Timezone; Sub-projects/Interest Areas
19:07:56 <Rhea> #action dotnet New members, make sure you introduce yourself on the DotNet mailing list [ ]
19:08:06 <Rhea> If this is your first time at a DotNet meeting, feel free to introduce yourself to everyone and say hello! If anyone has any questions before we get started with the rest of the agenda, now is also a good time to ask.
19:08:19 <Rhea> #info Radka Janek; UTC+1; CommOps, Diversity, DotNet,...
19:08:31 * Rhea waves at jflory7 :D
19:08:38 <bt0> #info Alberto Rodriguez; UTC-6; Commops, DotNet, Infra...
19:08:51 <nmilosev> .fas nmilosev
19:08:51 <zodbot> nmilosev: nmilosev 'Nemanja Milosevic' <>
19:08:53 <jflory7> #info Justin W. Flory; UTC+1; CommOps, Magazine, Marketing, Diversity, and more… [ just observing for this meeting! ]
19:09:00 <rmartinelli> .fas rimolive
19:09:01 <zodbot> rmartinelli: rimolive '' <>
19:09:14 <rkieley> .fas roddiekieley
19:09:14 <zodbot> rkieley: roddiekieley 'Roddie Kieley' <>
19:09:27 <tmds> .hello tmds
19:09:28 <zodbot> tmds: tmds 'Tom Deseyn' <>
19:09:49 <omajid> .hello omajid
19:09:50 <zodbot> omajid: omajid 'Omair Majid' <>
19:10:06 <bt0> .fas bt0dotninja
19:10:08 <zodbot> bt0: bt0dotninja 'Alberto Rodriguez Sanchez' <>
19:11:06 <Rhea> #topic Announcements
19:11:11 <Rhea> #info === "Update for ASP.NET Core 1.1" ===
19:11:14 <Rhea> #link
19:11:19 <Rhea> #info Security update - if you're using core you might want to update :P
19:12:13 * nmilosev should update the 1.1 and clean RPMs
19:12:26 * nmilosev should also obsolete 1.0 repo
19:12:27 <Rhea> Now my question on topic, omajid/tmds do we need to update the F25 package? I have to admit that i wasn't following our internal discussions about this...
19:12:44 <Rhea> nmilosev: obsolete yes definitely
19:12:45 <omajid> nmilosev: afaik rpms don't include any stuff. so should be good
19:12:52 <bt0> nmilosev++
19:12:57 <Rhea> Yeah so its all in the nuget package for aspnet right
19:13:00 <nmilosev> Oh it's just a project.json modification?
19:13:07 <rmartinelli> 1.0.0-preview2-1-003175 << yes, it needs update
19:13:20 <Rhea> Yes, for the user-dev they have to bump a tiny number in project file
19:13:25 <Rhea> :D
19:13:28 <nmilosev> rmartinelli, that's just tooling version :)
19:13:36 <rmartinelli> oh
19:13:39 <Rhea> Yeah you could go with 1.1 now tho
19:13:46 <nmilosev> Yeah :D
19:13:46 <Rhea> Anyway moving on then
19:13:56 <rmartinelli> sorry then
19:13:58 <Rhea> #info === "Announcing .NET Core, .NET Native and NuGet Updates in VS 2017 RC" ===
19:14:00 <Rhea> #link
19:14:05 <Rhea> extra info... updated stuff
19:14:11 <Rhea> :D
19:14:29 <Rhea> Go read if you're curious, i just breezed through and didn't notice anything worth mentioning
19:15:12 <Rhea> #info === ".NET Core Image Processing" ===
19:15:13 <Rhea> #link
19:15:19 <Rhea> This however... this... finally
19:15:23 <Rhea> \o/
19:15:30 <moto-timo> nmilosev: you could hash-tag action those items :)
19:15:48 <Rhea> #action nmilosev obsolete the old 1.0 copr packages
19:15:52 <Rhea> hua hua
19:16:01 * moto-timo shivers
19:16:02 <Rhea> now you HAVE TO do it
19:16:06 <nmilosev> Our fearless reader should do that
19:16:09 <nmilosev> There you go! :D
19:16:12 <Rhea> :D
19:16:19 <moto-timo> fearless rheader
19:16:23 <Rhea> :D
19:16:32 <bt0> :P
19:16:33 <Rhea> one more
19:16:37 <Rhea> #info === "The .NET Language Strategy" ===
19:16:40 <Rhea> #link
19:16:44 <Rhea> #info A little bit about different languages in dotnet
19:16:58 <Rhea> And thats it, anyone got anything to mention here?
19:17:25 <nmilosev> Can I go slightly offtopic?
19:17:30 <Rhea> #info === "devconf talks: nmilosev++ dotnet in Fedora" ===
19:17:39 <Rhea> do you9 have links to youtube?
19:17:51 <Rhea> i have it somewhere...
19:17:52 <moto-timo> if you are an Eclipse IDE fan
19:17:53 * Rhea digging
19:18:00 <moto-timo> #link
19:18:06 <rmartinelli> nmilosev++ I lost your presentation because I needed to help a friend with his talk .
19:18:21 <moto-timo> #info C# editor plugin for Eclipse IDE
19:18:36 <jflory7> nmilosev++ :)
19:19:04 <Rhea> dont link it here please
19:19:05 <rmartinelli> I have a link to share too. It it the right moment to do that? =D
19:19:09 <Rhea> its mid-something
19:19:10 <Rhea> #undo
19:19:11 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by moto-timo at 19:18:21 : C# editor plugin for Eclipse IDE
19:19:13 <Rhea> #undo
19:19:13 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Link object at 0x44059a50>
19:19:14 <Rhea> #undo
19:19:14 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by Rhea at 19:17:30 : === "devconf talks: nmilosev++ dotnet in Fedora" ===
19:19:16 <moto-timo> sorry
19:19:30 <Rhea> #info === "C# editor plugin for Eclipse IDE" ===
19:19:34 <Rhea> #link
19:19:49 <nmilosev> moto-timo++ for finding this, looks good :)
19:20:03 <moto-timo> yeah, it uses the new Language Services Protocol so awesome
19:20:29 <moto-timo> unless I'm confusing it with some llvm/clang stuff I also saw today
19:20:30 <Rhea> #info === " talks: tmds++" ===
19:20:37 <Rhea> #link
19:20:56 <bt0> tmds++
19:21:00 <rmartinelli> tmds++
19:21:01 <nmilosev> tmds++
19:21:05 <tmds> tmds, a youtube celebrity, who would have thought...
19:21:07 * jflory7 has to run for a bus, but will catch up later or read the minutes :)
19:21:12 <jflory7> tmds++ on the talk!
19:21:12 <zodbot> jflory7: Karma for tmds changed to 7 (for the f25 release cycle):
19:21:29 <moto-timo> tmds++ for devconf talk
19:21:39 <moto-timo> karma roulette
19:21:40 <tmds> thx guys!
19:21:44 <Rhea> #info === " talks: nmilosev++" ===
19:21:47 <Rhea> #ink
19:21:55 <Rhea> there found it haha
19:22:18 <tmds> nmilosev++
19:22:25 <tmds> great talk!
19:22:31 <nmilosev> Rhea, s/ink/link/
19:22:32 <Rhea> Devconf was awesome and i'm really happy that i had the chance to meet the two of you +1... kinda shame that i didnt have a bit more time to spare >_<
19:22:40 <Rhea> #link
19:22:43 <Rhea> :D
19:22:47 <Rhea> thanks
19:22:51 * rmartinelli wondering if there is Rhea talk too
19:23:01 <nmilosev> Same, awesome to meet Rhea and tmds :) devconf was awesome
19:23:01 <Rhea> nope, there will be at open source summit
19:23:36 <moto-timo> I'm giving a talk at ELC if you want to meet me ;)
19:23:49 <Rhea> I'll start working on it in two months though, cause i'm working on some code that if i succeed i'd like to include in the talk
19:24:08 <Rhea> moto-timo: where is that?
19:24:19 <moto-timo> Portand, Oregon, USA
19:24:25 <moto-timo> Feb 21-24
19:24:38 <Rhea> oh yeah i cant get passport anytime soon i'm european union bound :D
19:24:49 <moto-timo> "you're welcome"
19:24:57 <Rhea> i never had one, my citizenship is in different country - so much trouble
19:25:17 <moto-timo> my government is a reality tv show
19:25:24 <Rhea> xD
19:25:29 <Rhea> #topic Action items and Tickets
19:25:32 <Rhea> #link
19:25:35 <Rhea> #link
19:25:39 <Rhea> #info How This Works: We look at past #action items from the last meeting for quick follow-up. If a task is completed, we move on to the next one. If it isn't, we get an update and re-action it if needed. If no status, we'll try to get a quick update and move forward.
19:25:42 <Rhea> #info === [COMPLETE] Rhea Finalise the fas-group and pagure setup. ===
19:25:46 <Rhea> #info Kinda done there, except that we can't reaaally finish all that until we get nmilosev into the group, which would be done only when we submit package, so it's kinda weird.
19:26:17 <nmilosev> I have to get sponsored as a packager first, I think.
19:26:20 <Rhea> Not much to add to that. The fas group has now packager requirement, and will be used to cover our packages, we need to sort you out
19:26:21 <moto-timo> I gotta go, but if we want a badge I already have a draft and can file a ticket with #fedora-design
19:26:27 <moto-timo> I'll read the logs
19:26:51 <Rhea> nmilosev: basically you get sponsored when we submit the package, you will be listed as one of the co-maintainers, and stuff around it, and that will get you sponsored
19:27:03 <nmilosev> By the way, I've talked to Martin from MS (at DevConf) and they added me to the new source-build repository so I can test it out.
19:27:14 <Rhea> I'll have a chat about details with certain someone when fosdem / gsoc chaos settles down.
19:27:16 <tmds> nmilosev: cool
19:27:31 <bt0> amazing
19:27:33 <nmilosev> Yeah, it's great, I will tell you how it goes on the next meeting
19:28:07 <Rhea> Yeah i still didnt have time to sort out my github - ill get to that some time next week i think heh
19:28:26 <Rhea> #info === GSoC ===
19:28:41 <Rhea> #idea Do we want to mentor a Google Summer of Code project?
19:29:23 <Rhea> We've got just about 24 hours to get something together if so, i'd be heading that innitiative and draft the proposal, but i need ideas... Is there anything we could do?
19:29:33 <Rhea> Is there something we want a student to contribute to?
19:30:00 <Rhea> Fedora and/or RedHat? omajid tmds what do you think about RH side? :d
19:30:34 <Rhea> ping jflory7 gsoc topic
19:30:43 <Rhea> if you have anything to add
19:30:44 * nmilosev thinks jflory7 is afk
19:30:54 * omajid has had his head down in the builds. sorry no ideas atm.
19:30:56 <Rhea> nop he's ... he's actually walking and on phone i think so yeah
19:31:10 <Rhea> :D
19:31:26 <nmilosev> Rhea, any idea what tasks for GSoC should look like?
19:31:30 <Rhea> I could use a student to work on MY project haha
19:31:44 <omajid> Rhea: what's your project? ;)
19:31:48 <Rhea> Anything really, any project in dotnet, or around packaging it
19:32:10 <Rhea> We've got packaging covered i think, so i'm thinking about some dotnet based tools for Fedora
19:32:50 <rmartinelli> like Eclipse integration?
19:32:58 <Rhea> omajid: two empty repositories right now, cause i'm in the process of splitting the project up, fixing up structure, i've rewritten about 30k lines of code in last two days...
19:33:00 <rmartinelli> or vscode?
19:33:05 <tmds> an idea just came to mind, a .net tool that packages a .net app as an rpm?
19:33:13 <Rhea> yup
19:33:18 <nmilosev> tmds, that's actually a very good idea
19:33:19 <Rhea> something like that is what i was thinking tmds
19:33:19 <rmartinelli> tmds: that would be great!
19:33:31 <Rhea> I'm just not sure about... details heh
19:33:38 <Rhea> what would the product look like really
19:33:45 <Rhea> we would probably want that packaged as well?
19:33:58 <Rhea> Or have it as a simple script to be downloaded
19:34:03 <Rhea> that works too
19:34:18 <tmds> like the .net tools in project.json which perform db migrations
19:34:27 <Rhea> mm
19:34:37 <nmilosev> Or package NuGet -> RPM
19:34:41 <Rhea> yeah
19:34:43 <Rhea> lets do that
19:34:45 <nmilosev> like Python does
19:34:56 <Rhea> i mean
19:35:14 <nmilosev> But that's a separate idea, than building a tool to package user's application
19:35:25 <Rhea> yup thats what i mean haha
19:36:01 <tmds> for example:
19:36:12 <tmds> that line is a .NET tool that
19:36:20 <Rhea> Yup we could go with this.. lets wait for jflory7 - or i'll poke him later about details, he could have some insight
19:36:47 <Rhea> i'm not entirely sure that this would be large enough project
19:36:56 <nmilosev> yeah, maybe both :D
19:37:17 <Rhea> if not then we can combine all of the above into one app/script/thing
19:37:40 <Rhea> i would suggest writing it all in dotnet just to be more evil to the student (as opposed to bash or other scripting)
19:38:53 <Rhea> Okay, who's gonna be around for a few more hours to explore further on this after hte meeting?
19:39:14 <Rhea> ME
19:39:26 <nmilosev> Rhea, do you think it's too soon for this? :(
19:39:31 <tmds> other idea, add support for .net core to mono-sharp
19:39:42 <tmds> err, gtk-sharp I mean
19:39:46 <Rhea> nmilosev: what do you mean too soon
19:40:01 <nmilosev> I mean for GSoC offer
19:40:08 <Rhea> ideas should be in the gsoc application with deadline in 43 hours
19:40:32 <Rhea> so we need to put some draft together to help our org applicationa s well
19:40:57 <omajid> afaik, they broke the tools api between project.json and csproj migration. i don't know what the path foward is. seems a bit too unstable change to ask a student to work on it.
19:41:02 <Rhea> Hence why i'm trying to get it out of the way rather today than tomorrow
19:41:30 <nmilosev> I really liked the project.json :(
19:41:41 <nmilosev> Rhea, I meant too soon to ask someone to work on it
19:41:47 <nmilosev> Since .NET is changing all the time for now
19:41:54 <Rhea> not really
19:42:08 <Rhea> not much will change in regards to packaging an app
19:42:29 <Rhea> i mean... some code -> dotnet publish -> rpm -> done?
19:42:39 <Rhea> with some parameters as to specify target, etc
19:43:28 <Rhea> we write proposel for what we've got now, project.json, and if it changes before summer, then the student will work on xproj if not then they stick to .json and we can easily fix it up later
19:43:41 <Rhea> Or we keep the student and have him work on it in winter as well
19:43:48 <Rhea> hua hua hua
19:44:06 <nmilosev> sounds ok, but we would have to specify somewhere that the student has to be familiar with RPM packaging and .NET Core
19:44:21 <Rhea> yup there are requirements and stuff
19:44:43 <Rhea> i wouldnt say that they have to be that familiar with it, its school thing for a reason - they will learn
19:45:05 <nmilosev> There is a designated mentor for this?
19:45:10 <Rhea> yes, me
19:45:20 <nmilosev> Oh, I'm gonna apply then ;D
19:45:21 <Rhea> and whoever else out of our lovely dotnet team here would go
19:45:29 <Rhea> :D
19:45:29 <nmilosev> But from the other side
19:45:39 <Rhea> nope, i dont know what do you mean by other side
19:45:46 <nmilosev> student side
19:45:49 <nmilosev> :D
19:46:09 <Rhea> It's just our idea, then students browse them, pick, discuss with us, make an application to google, they get accepted, we work together and teach the student while creating something cool
19:46:34 <nmilosev> sounds good :)
19:46:38 <Rhea> (+ frankly its all new for us so we learn as well, a lot)
19:47:10 <Rhea> We've got maybe slight advantage to a student that we've been around the industry whether as developers or as packagers for a while and got an idea how does it work...
19:47:45 <Rhea> nmilosev and myself dev side and a bit of packaging, omajid tmds the other side of things - experienced packagers
19:47:51 <Rhea> we've got it covered
19:47:54 <Rhea> :D
19:48:48 <tmds_> what topic are we?
19:48:48 <nmilosev> You can count on me to help :)
19:48:53 <Rhea> GSOC
19:48:55 <Rhea> still
19:49:18 <Rhea> I'd like to continue via email/etherpad a bit later, in about an hour ill send you some info
19:49:28 <Rhea> nmilosev <3
19:49:43 <nmilosev> Sure, you can ping me on telegram as well
19:50:06 <Rhea> tru
19:50:11 <Rhea> Okay lets wrap it up
19:50:16 <Rhea> #topic Packaging progress
19:50:19 <Rhea> Anything here?
19:50:24 <nmilosev> I have a couple of things
19:50:25 <Rhea> Doubt it with all the events over last two weeks
19:50:27 <Rhea> oh
19:50:29 <Rhea> okay
19:50:31 <Rhea> unexpected
19:50:39 <nmilosev> This maybe interesting:
19:50:47 <nmilosev> (for origin/openshift)
19:51:02 <Rhea> tmds omajid ^
19:51:22 <omajid> thanks, saw it last night
19:51:32 <nmilosev> Also: there is an issue with dotnet-clean package
19:51:47 <nmilosev> System.Data.SqlClient DLL is suspiciously missing
19:51:49 <nmilosev> :(
19:51:54 <nmilosev> Any ideas?
19:52:09 <Rhea> hmm
19:52:36 <nmilosev> Pulling System.Data.SqlClient from Nuget doesn't work. What is very weird: application gets compiled, crashes at runtime
19:53:03 <Rhea> did you try on f24?
19:53:11 <Rhea> i mean with official msft package
19:53:16 <nmilosev> No, I only tested on F25
19:53:24 <nmilosev> But with nmilosev/dotnet1.1 everything works
19:53:26 <nmilosev> Same project
19:53:36 <Rhea> Hmm.
19:53:43 <nmilosev> I will look into it, just wanted to let you guys know.
19:53:54 <omajid> thanks!
19:54:06 <nmilosev> Also, a question for omajid
19:54:23 <nmilosev> Do you know why rover tools produces much bigger binaries than they are supposed to be
19:54:44 <nmilosev> MS package is around 50MB, ours 90MB
19:54:46 <omajid> do you have any examples?
19:54:55 <omajid> do you filter out .dbg files?
19:55:17 * nmilosev smacks himself on the head
19:55:21 <nmilosev> thanks :D
19:55:30 <omajid> hehe, been there, done that :)
19:55:42 <omajid> (me is just now debugging the same problem with openjdk9 copr :) )
19:56:04 <nmilosev> that's probably it, didn't want to open issue until I ask
19:56:15 <nmilosev> Rhea, you can action that aswell :D
19:56:34 <Rhea> huh
19:56:38 <Rhea> you can
19:56:40 <tmds_> I have some more links to share :)
19:56:41 <Rhea> i dnot know what
19:56:48 <Rhea> give all links
19:56:50 * Rhea eats them
19:56:55 <tmds_> interesting reads on project.json -> msbuild:
19:57:07 <tmds_> ubuntu arm is supported by .net core:
19:57:20 <tmds_> and so is avalonia:
19:57:29 <Rhea> arm support is in netcore to begin with, so i wouldnt give ubuntu TOO much credit..
19:57:39 <nmilosev> #action nmilosev cleanup the dotnet-clean rpm (remove debug symbols)
19:58:03 <tmds_> I am not giving credit, I am bringing the message
19:58:11 <nmilosev> I've tried ARM binaries from that thread on Fedora as well
19:58:35 <tmds_> and?
19:58:53 <nmilosev> But these ones:
19:59:19 <nmilosev> Works like a charm (with symbolic linking correct libicu)
19:59:21 <tmds_> did they work on fedora?
19:59:25 <tmds_> cool
19:59:27 <nmilosev> (RPi2, F25)
19:59:28 <tmds_> on rasberry pi?
19:59:30 <tmds_> k
19:59:52 <Rhea> hehe
20:00:09 <tmds_> ubuntu-arm is in the rid tree (
20:00:21 <Rhea> huh
20:00:27 <Rhea> Lets push Fedora-arm
20:00:29 <Rhea> uahaaa
20:00:52 <Rhea> Can we do that?
20:00:55 <Rhea> I mean... why not
20:01:30 <omajid> *cough* f25 *cough*
20:01:40 <bt0> :D
20:01:42 <Rhea> nmilosev so what's stopping us from packaging dotnet for fedora on raspberry
20:02:21 <nmilosev> I could package it (the ugly way), but it would be much better to wait for source builds :)
20:02:24 <nmilosev> In my opinion
20:02:34 <Rhea> Should I create an issue to add F25 rid btw?
20:02:47 <Rhea> Yup, so we can do taht one day
20:03:23 <Rhea> tmds_ what is their policy about this, do they require their own builds before they create rid or what
20:04:00 * omajid can't make head or tails of their policy.
20:04:04 <tmds_> if you send a PR to add your RID, they will accept it
20:04:18 <Rhea> Okay i'll get onto that then maybe
20:04:25 <Rhea> o.o
20:04:49 <Rhea> We've got more-less packages almost there, so might as well have this in dotnet for future updates soon TM
20:04:50 <tmds_> don't know what the plans are, but this RID stuff has been proven quite inflexible
20:05:05 <nmilosev> I hope we can work with linux-x64
20:05:28 <Rhea> Yeah but given that they also have all the explicit stuff, we should probably maintain these as well...
20:05:33 <tmds_> in my opinion you should be able to specify the rid as a build parameter and a list of parents, and that should just get baked into the output
20:05:49 <Rhea> hmm
20:07:05 <tmds_> if you want to know more, see
20:07:20 <Rhea> Yup i've been following that
20:07:37 <omajid> kind of weird in their ecosystem, though. for example, if we create our own f25 rid, no one else can target it.
20:08:43 <nmilosev> I've found out recently that you can change RID with an env variable
20:08:52 <nmilosev> I didn't see that documented anywhere
20:09:01 <tmds_> omajid: the apps of your distro can target it
20:09:01 <nmilosev> Or just didn't look deep enough
20:09:14 <tmds_> and anyone else, would probably target linux-x64
20:09:16 <omajid> tmds_: yup, better than nothing.
20:09:35 <Rhea> hmm
20:10:06 <Rhea> #action Rhea create an issue on pagure to keep rid info and discussion together...
20:10:12 <Rhea> Lets call it for today?
20:10:17 <tmds_> good idea :)
20:10:19 <Rhea> #topic Open Floor
20:10:23 <nmilosev> Please talking too you all :)
20:10:27 <nmilosev> to*
20:10:34 <Rhea> too you to nmilosev
20:10:37 <Rhea> :P
20:10:53 <rmartinelli>
20:11:26 <rmartinelli> The Artemis team published a tutorial to use dotnet core producing/consuming messages in Artemis.
20:11:30 <rmartinelli> It uses AMQP
20:13:02 <Rhea> interesting
20:15:22 <Rhea> #endmeeting