06:00:51 <pravins> #startmeeting i18n
06:00:51 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul 20 06:00:51 2016 UTC.  The chair is pravins. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
06:00:51 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
06:00:51 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
06:00:52 <pravins> #meetingname i18n
06:00:52 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
06:00:52 <pravins> #topic agenda and roll call
06:00:52 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2016-07-20
06:01:04 <mfabian> Hi!
06:01:05 <suanand> hi..
06:01:20 <pravins> hi mfabian suanand :)
06:01:23 <pravins> #chair mfabian suanand
06:01:23 <zodbot> Current chairs: mfabian pravins suanand
06:01:26 <epico> hi
06:01:27 <fujiwarat> hi
06:01:32 <pravins> hi epico fujiwarat :)
06:01:36 <pravins> #chair epico fujiwarat
06:01:36 <zodbot> Current chairs: epico fujiwarat mfabian pravins suanand
06:02:07 <paragan> hi
06:02:07 <juhp> hi
06:02:12 <pravins> hi paragan juhp :)
06:02:15 <pravins> #chair paragan juhp
06:02:15 <zodbot> Current chairs: epico fujiwarat juhp mfabian paragan pravins suanand
06:02:23 <pravins> lets see upcoming schedule
06:02:34 <pravins> #topic Upcoming schedule
06:02:35 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/25/Schedule
06:02:35 <pravins> #info 2016-07-26   Branch Fedora 25 from Rawhide (Rawhide becomes future F26)
06:02:36 <pravins> #info 2016-07-26   Change Checkpoint: Completion deadline (testable)
06:02:38 <pravins> #info 2016-08-09    Alpha Freeze (*)
06:02:40 <pravins> #info 2016-08-09    Software String Freeze
06:02:59 <pravins> hmm Change completion deadline is very near.
06:03:07 <pravins> This is for system-wide change though
06:03:53 <pravins> i think for self contained change we can have some more time.
06:04:09 <paragan> yes so all system wide changes bug tracker also need to set modified when they are testable in F25
06:04:09 <pravins> lets move to that topic itself :)
06:04:33 <pravins> paragan: aha, good point. So just one week from now.
06:04:35 <pravins> #topic #64: Fedora 25 planning (pravins)
06:04:36 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/64
06:04:46 <pravins> lets go through all our planned proposals.
06:05:31 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Unicode_9.0
06:05:50 <pravins> mfabian: hi, i am seeing few more components are getting added to our change proposal.
06:06:13 <mfabian> Yesa, I saw it as well.
06:06:23 <mfabian> One about gucharmap.
06:06:30 <pravins> right. i think its fine.
06:06:47 <juhp> paragan: MODIFIED?
06:06:49 <pravins> Rather good since gradually we are understanding what all things need to be update for particular Unicode release.
06:07:34 <juhp> cool
06:07:47 <paragan> juhp, don't we need to set Change bugzilla to MODIFIED to note that Change is testable and built in Fedora 25?
06:08:21 <juhp> paragan: I was asking/confirming you :)
06:08:33 <pravins> :)
06:08:45 <pravins> mfabian: do you think we will able to build glibc with Unicode update by 27th?
06:08:59 <mfabian> You mean in rawhide?
06:09:13 <mfabian> pravins: I did it already in rawhide.
06:09:21 <pravins> oops, i missed it.
06:09:24 <pravins> mfabian++
06:09:24 <zodbot> pravins: Karma for mfabian changed to 3 (for the f24 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
06:09:40 <mfabian> Maybe I should write something in the wiki ...
06:09:48 <pravins> would you like to add that build to Bugzilla.
06:09:54 <pravins> right, on bugzilla as well.
06:10:16 <pravins> Change proposal once we should consider as a tracker and create package specific bugzillas
06:10:21 <pravins> s/once/one
06:10:30 <pravins> do we have any bug open against Glibc?
06:10:36 <pravins> for Unicode 9.0
06:11:04 <mfabian> pravins: no specific bug for glibc, only the tracker bug for the change proposal at the moment.
06:11:19 <pravins> #info Glibc with Unicode 9.0 is already build for Rawhide
06:11:46 <pravins> i think good to have glibc specific bugzilla, since we might need more bugs for different packages like gucharmap, ucd, libicu
06:11:58 <pravins> mfabian: would you like to open bugs for it?
06:12:54 <anish_> hi
06:12:56 <pravins> #info Unicode 9.0 change is also accepted by FeSCo
06:12:58 <pravins> hi anish_ :)
06:13:04 <pravins> moving to next change proposal
06:13:22 <pravins> #info IBus Emoji typing
06:13:24 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/IBus_Emoji_Typing
06:13:46 <pravins> fujiwarat: hi :)
06:13:48 <paragan> this did not get any discussion on FESCo
06:13:50 <mfabian> pravins: gucharmap seems to have a bug already: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1319468
06:14:17 <pravins> aha, then we can simply add it to our main change proposal page and bug
06:14:38 <pravins> paragan: IBus Emoji is still in ChangeReadyForFesco state
06:14:57 <pravins> any discussion happened? sorry i have not seen log :(
06:15:10 <pravins> #chair anish_
06:15:10 <zodbot> Current chairs: anish_ epico fujiwarat juhp mfabian paragan pravins suanand
06:15:17 <paragan> hope to see more details shared on IBus Emoji implementation either on devel list or in Change wiki page
06:16:17 <fujiwarat> Probably I will update some info today.
06:16:29 <paragan> FESCo said "Defer approval to allow more discussion on implementation and dependencies"
06:16:34 <pravins> * Discussion point: Shortcut key consideration of hook
06:16:52 <pravins> #info FESCo said "Defer approval to allow more discussion on implementation and dependencies" for IBus Emoji typing
06:17:02 <pravins> thanks paragan :)
06:18:04 <fujiwarat> What is the shortcut key consideration?
06:18:48 <pravins> fujiwarat: i saw email on list saying ctr+shift+e is used for other shortcuts in applications
06:19:22 <fujiwarat> pravins: I saw ctrl-shift-? is used but I don't see if ctrl-shift-e is used.
06:20:45 <pravins> sure, so plan is to use control+shift+e itself, right?
06:20:59 <pravins> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/OVESHDOM6RZSIOX3PLS6VIBVXCAEVMYT/#V4EC66XROE26YFHPFVNNLB3ZO22PYXJ5
06:21:23 <pravins> i have not seen any further email on the IBus Emoji typing thread after mfabian reply.
06:21:29 <pravins> So i think idea is clear now.
06:21:48 <pravins> #info No further discussions on devel list regarding IBus Emoji typing, so looks things clear now.
06:22:13 <fujiwarat> Yes, it's the plan. But I can consider it if any other shortcut key is preferred for ibus.
06:22:38 <pravins> any suggestion from anyone here?
06:22:39 <pravins> #chair
06:22:39 <zodbot> Current chairs: anish_ epico fujiwarat juhp mfabian paragan pravins suanand
06:22:50 <pravins> for shortcut key for Emoji typing
06:23:23 <pravins> ShortCut key is always remained problem, its difficult to find unused shortcut key :)
06:23:53 <mfabian> fujiwarat: I have built ibus from git master and am testing it. The Control+Shift+e shortcut works fine for me.
06:23:54 <juhp> Ctrl-Super-Space?
06:24:40 <mfabian> fujiwarat: I wonder why I do not see this menu though: https://fujiwara.fedorapeople.org/ibus/emoji/ibus-emoji-menu.png
06:25:07 <fujiwarat> pravins: I don't see anything but I think it should be different from IME switching.
06:25:16 <pravins> "ctrl+super" can definitely give lots of options :)
06:25:26 <pravins> fujiwarat: +1
06:25:37 <juhp> fujiwarat: any chance or extending it to Unicode char support too later?
06:26:16 <juhp> of!
06:26:28 <pravins> juhp: AFAI think Unicode char requires number of Emoji takes word as input. So not good to club it.
06:26:29 <fujiwarat> juhp: Do you prefer C-S-S to C-S-e?
06:26:47 <juhp> fujiwarat: probably
06:27:02 <juhp> since we already use Super-Space
06:27:28 <juhp> or Shift-Super-Space?
06:27:38 <juhp> is that already bound?
06:27:47 <fujiwarat> mfabian: It needs https://codereview.appspot.com/300690043/ but I start to implement another UI on ibus panel icon.
06:28:28 <mfabian> fujiwarat: Ah, OK!
06:28:30 <juhp> pravins: unicode needs number of words?
06:28:36 <fujiwarat> juhp: Shift-Super-Space is the reverse key of IME switching.
06:28:41 <juhp> ah yeah
06:28:46 <pravins> juhp: for entering Unicode characters, we use rawcode.
06:28:53 <juhp> pravins: I hate that
06:29:04 <fujiwarat> mfabian: thx for your test.
06:29:25 <pravins> #idea Entering Unicode characters with words rather than Rawcode.
06:29:35 <juhp> pravins: I mean no disrespect to ibus-rawcode but it is not nice UX
06:29:47 <juhp> pravins: +1
06:30:30 <pravins> but i think, this feature bring itself new complexities.
06:30:34 <juhp> I have never used it either - I avoid asm too ;o)
06:30:49 <pravins> Presently for Emoji, there is word file provide by Unicode. Keyword and associated Emoji.
06:30:58 <mfabian> juhp: for entering Unicode characters by name, it should certainly match a bit more fuzzy.
06:31:03 <juhp> pravins: true but having two UIs for emoji and unicode sounds worse to me
06:31:17 <juhp> mfabian: absolutely
06:31:23 <mfabian> juhp: Currently this emoji input in ibus seems to match quite strict
06:31:33 <pravins> agree. If it coming in future definitely good to extend present proposal of Emoji :)
06:31:36 <juhp> I still feel for desktop Unicode is actually more important case than emoji
06:32:09 <mfabian> For example, “smiling” doesn’t match anything, only “smile” matches.
06:32:13 <juhp> pravins: sure - I was asking about roadmap :)
06:32:21 <fujiwarat> juhp: The emoji dict will be generate automatically. If there are a way to create a dict by category.
06:32:36 <pravins> juhp: indeed, good idea !!
06:32:48 <mfabian> ibus-uniemoji matches a lot fuzzier which seems useful.
06:32:54 <juhp> fujiwarat: it should be possible to generate some dictionary for unicode - of course it will be a lot bigger
06:33:04 <juhp> mfabian: nice
06:33:10 <pravins> lot lot :)
06:33:13 <juhp> is it good?
06:33:23 <mfabian> juhp: ibus-uniemoji?
06:33:29 <juhp> yep
06:33:51 <mfabian> juhp: Yes, it is not bad, for emoji it works quite well. The fuzzy match is rather good.
06:33:54 <juhp> I did a poor PoC scim-unicode or something long ago
06:34:00 <pravins> i am doubtful regarding how many suggestions it will generate though. But frequently used option shown by fujiwarat is definitely helpful.
06:34:16 <juhp> mfabian: ah it does both already right?
06:34:35 <mfabian> I read the source code of ibus-uniemoji to get some inspiration for emoji support in ibus-typing-booster.
06:34:41 <juhp> of course there should be frequently used unicode too
06:34:50 <mfabian> ibus-uniemoji does *only* emoji, not generic unicode.
06:34:56 <juhp> are we packaging it for fedora?
06:35:03 <mfabian> No, it is not packaged yet.
06:35:09 <pravins> good question.
06:35:13 <juhp> want to? :)
06:35:21 <pravins> Any one planning to package ibus-uniemoji to Fedora?
06:35:24 <juhp> sounds like it would be good to have it
06:35:51 <pravins> Also i remember paragan mentioned that, if we have to make IBus Emoji typing default will it bring many node.js pacakges to Fedora default image?
06:36:07 <juhp> it is only a builddep
06:36:17 <juhp> iiuc
06:36:22 <mfabian> It was very easy to install: "git clone git@github.com:salty-horse/ibus-uniemoji.git; cd ibus-uniemoji; sudo make install; ibus restart"
06:36:46 <mfabian> ibus-uniemoji contains its  own copy of emoji.json from emojione.
06:36:50 <juhp> mfabian: nevertheless ... if it seems good enough to include
06:37:08 <pravins> i mean from our proposed change i have 2 queries
06:37:32 <pravins> fujiwarat: Will we able to complete this by 26th Jul?
06:37:32 <paragan> we cannot make it default installed
06:37:41 <paragan> it brings nodejs dep
06:37:53 <paragan> $ rpm -qp --requires nodejs-emojione-2.2.5-1.fc24.noarch.rpm
06:37:54 <paragan> nodejs(engine)
06:38:18 <paragan> $ rpm -q --provides nodejs | grep engine
06:38:18 <paragan> nodejs(engine) = 4.4.6
06:38:23 <pravins> paragan: confirming again, so our proposed change will bring lots of node.js package, if we want to make it default?
06:38:41 <paragan> not lots of but basic nodejs engine at least
06:38:45 <mfabian> currently,  emoji input in ibus seems to use only one single file from nodejs-emojione, only the emoji.json file and only at build time.
06:39:16 <mfabian> So all that nodejs stuff is not really used by ibus.
06:39:17 <paragan> yeah but when you install nodejs-emojione, it will bring nodejs package
06:39:18 <pravins> mfabian: aha, in that case in long term we can avoid that dependency, if we want to make it default
06:39:18 <epico> maybe I can try to package ibus-uniemoji...
06:39:33 <mfabian> epico: Great!
06:39:37 <pravins> epico: +1
06:39:43 <pravins> good to have that package in..
06:39:53 <epico> :)
06:39:54 <paragan> there is no escape to nodejs dep if we want any implementation defualt
06:40:36 <mfabian> The emoji.json file has a size of around 400K.
06:40:46 <epico> ah
06:40:54 <fujiwarat> paragan: Not sure why you talk about the build dependency.
06:41:03 <pravins> #info epico planning to package ibus-uniemoji in Fedora.
06:41:15 <paragan> fujiwarat, okay let me also understand this
06:41:29 <paragan> Suppose you created nodejs-emojione package in Fedora
06:41:43 <paragan> you marked in to be installed default in Fedora Workstation
06:41:56 <paragan> when it gets installed, don't it also install nodejs package??
06:42:10 <fujiwarat> No, I don't mark in to be installed default.
06:42:14 <juhp> is it possible to subpackage the data from nodejs-emojione so that nodejs dep is not needed?
06:42:33 <paragan> if you don't want it default say so in Change page
06:42:38 <paragan> then no issue
06:42:56 <fujiwarat> Again it's build depend only.
06:43:15 <mfabian> juhp: probably yes. But as it is only a build dependency, there is no big problem.
06:43:28 <pravins> #info Presently no plan to make or install IBus Emoji defautl, will decide based on users/ other teams input.
06:43:34 <fujiwarat> juhp: There is the directory dependency.
06:43:34 <juhp> well seems not from what paragan wrote above
06:43:46 <juhp> ah
06:44:01 <juhp> pravins: sure
06:44:20 <pravins> so fujiwarat is there is chance to get first build in Fedora by 26/27th?
06:44:28 * juhp doesn't know how "big" nodejs(engine) is
06:44:47 <juhp> pravins: is it a Systemwide Change?
06:44:47 <pravins> just asking as per schedule :)
06:44:49 <pravins> yes
06:44:55 <juhp> should it be?
06:45:00 <paragan> it will not make any difference, we don't want any new dependencies in Fedora Workstation
06:45:36 <juhp> paragan: I am not suggesting default install but want to avoid any heavy deps
06:45:38 <pravins> IBus is on crit path.
06:45:41 <paragan> juhp, ah you are right then
06:45:48 <paragan> this change should be self-contained
06:46:02 <paragan> but we are not updating ibus
06:46:03 <juhp> if it is not installed by default I feel so
06:46:22 <paragan> are we?
06:46:22 <juhp> maybe that will change in a future release...
06:46:50 <pravins> +1 Good to have this not default in this release and take opinion in next releases.
06:46:51 <juhp> paragan: good question
06:47:07 <paragan> anyways if there will be no reply soon, FESCo may delay this Change to next release
06:47:14 <juhp> ah
06:47:20 <paragan> we have meeting in 2 days
06:47:33 <pravins> sorry, i am not clear. IBus emoji typing will be new package? or simply part of IBus?
06:47:35 <juhp> paragan: reply where?
06:47:44 <juhp> new package I thought?
06:47:48 <paragan> says devel list
06:47:57 <pravins> ohh, paragan which email?
06:47:58 <juhp> about the deps right?
06:48:04 <paragan> If FESCo raised questions
06:48:05 <juhp> fujiwarat: can you please reply on the list then
06:48:11 <juhp> if?
06:48:11 <fujiwarat> pravins: it's in ibus core.
06:48:14 <paragan> then reply on devel list to those questions
06:48:17 <juhp> ah
06:48:41 <juhp> fujiwarat: how big is the node dep currently?
06:49:11 <juhp> or is paragan's output out of date now?
06:50:03 <fujiwarat> juhp: ? nodejs-emojione depends on the nodejs's directory but it should not be a big problem since it's the build dependency only.
06:50:12 <pravins> paragan: can you provide link for FeSco question, it will be helpful.
06:50:28 <juhp> fujiwarat: you saw the output above?
06:50:43 <juhp> ah sorry
06:50:46 <paragan> pravins, well its Change owner responsibility also to look if their proposals are accepted or got questions
06:50:52 <juhp> that was just for emojione doh
06:51:01 <mfabian> Yesterday, when I wanted to build a rpm package for ibus from git master to test the emoji support, I had problems building it because nodejs-emojione was not yet available and I didn’t know how to add it easily. So I did this which worked so I could test it: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/392732/97368146/
06:51:04 <paragan> if questions then reply accordingly
06:51:05 <juhp> fujiwarat: I withdraw my question...
06:51:11 <pravins> paragan: hmm, may be need to check ticket itself.
06:51:30 <juhp> I don't see any problem if it is only a BR
06:51:34 <juhp> should be fine
06:51:52 <juhp> ah
06:52:21 <juhp> fujiwarat: if it is in ibus I think it needs to be SystemWide and so ready for testing by next week
06:52:24 <pravins> At least no question on ticket https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1594
06:53:07 <juhp> strictly speaking at least ;o)
06:53:11 <pravins> Even, alpha/testing version is fine i think.
06:53:18 <juhp> yeah
06:53:51 <pravins> Alpha freeze is on  2016-08-09, so before that will work ideally
06:54:04 <juhp> pravins: there was a question about dep on devel list I thought.. probably we should move on anyway :-)
06:54:18 <pravins> but like with glibc subpackaging we broke nightly build
06:54:24 <pravins> yes. took lot time.
06:54:30 <fujiwarat> juhp: The current Fedora change can be implemented soon but not sure about the next plan about GUI.
06:54:41 <pravins> Since this is early development phase, good to have meeting next week as well.
06:54:47 <pravins> Vote? :)
06:54:49 <pravins> #chair
06:54:49 <zodbot> Current chairs: anish_ epico fujiwarat juhp mfabian paragan pravins suanand
06:54:51 <pravins> +1
06:54:58 <anish_> +1
06:55:00 <juhp> fujiwarat: so for workstation it will be less visible right?
06:55:09 <paragan> okay +1
06:55:29 <juhp> +1
06:55:37 <juhp> for meeting next week
06:55:43 <fujiwarat> juhp: Yes, the current Fedora page suggests the CLI only.
06:55:54 <juhp> okay
06:56:01 <pravins> #agreed I18n Meeting on 27th July  (+4,0,0)
06:56:28 <pravins> moving to next change proposal.
06:56:51 <pravins> #link  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Transdiff
06:57:02 <pravins> suanand: hi, how this is going?
06:57:18 <suanand> got bugzilla id :)
06:57:25 <pravins> nice :)
06:57:31 <suanand> planning to start code and some workarounds
06:57:37 <pravins> for self-contained change we can definitely have more time.
06:58:00 <pravins> need to confirm with jkurik since its not mentioned on F25 schedule page
06:58:07 <suanand> may be some progress by end of this month
06:58:16 <Satya> +1
06:58:16 <pravins> suanand: great. thanks :)
06:58:34 <suanand> as we are approaching string freeze soon
06:58:49 <pravins> #info We might get some update by End of July for Transdiff.
06:58:53 <suanand> it seems more meaningful for f26 I believe
06:58:54 <pravins> yes
06:59:08 <pravins> suanand: so want to defer it for F26?
06:59:31 <suanand> I think so, technically/logically
06:59:50 <suanand> not sure though... how about you?
07:00:26 <suanand> pravins, I mean how you feel?
07:00:33 <pravins> not sure either but since Fedora 25 is quick release. We need to move fast for proposals
07:00:41 <pravins> Though our is self contained.
07:00:55 <pravins> So if your planned timeline does not matching with F25, good to defer.
07:01:05 <pravins> s/F25/F25 schedule
07:01:24 <suanand> I agree
07:01:31 <pravins> umm, already overtime.
07:01:59 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Ibus-typing-booster_multilingual_support
07:02:10 <pravins> I think we are safe with this change proposal
07:02:18 <pravins> so lets discuss next time :)
07:02:32 <pravins> moving to next topic
07:02:34 <pravins> #topic #63: Bug triaging activity post F24 (pravins)
07:02:34 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/63
07:02:45 <pravins> I had discussion with Satya on this earlier.
07:02:58 <pravins> and plan is to have some bug triaging half day
07:03:03 <pravins> where even more people can participate
07:03:15 <pravins> but sad part is most of our bugs got auto close with F22 EOL
07:03:46 <pravins> Since, less time i think good to communicate about it over the email
07:03:55 <Satya> pravins, we will take it up sometimes next week as discussed.
07:04:21 <pravins> Page is ready
07:04:24 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FLTG/F24_I18N_Bug_Triaging
07:04:45 <Satya> great
07:04:56 <pravins> from i18n team point, we will need to help participants for tech. queries.
07:05:05 <pravins> As of now we are planning 26th for this activity
07:05:12 <anish_> cool
07:05:25 <pravins> #topic Open Floor
07:05:33 <pravins> Any urgent topic we missed to discuss?
07:05:49 <pravins> anish_: sorry, i have not seen proposal for Hunspel :(
07:06:09 <pravins> even its not late to propose for F25. Lets keep development on and propose for F26
07:06:13 <anish_> pravins, i drafted it https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/hunspell
07:06:25 <anish_> but seems i am late now
07:06:29 <pravins> #link Hunspell dict proposal https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/hunspell
07:07:17 <pravins> lets try for F26 :)
07:07:27 <pravins> any other imp points before we close?
07:07:29 <anish_> yeah but meanwhile I will create mockups for platform
07:07:35 <pravins> anish_: that will be great.
07:07:43 <pravins> do update change proposal page, once you done it.
07:07:50 <pravins> I would like to test/see it
07:07:57 <anish_> cool thanks
07:08:18 <pravins> lets close meeting in 2 min.
07:10:19 <pravins> thanks everyone for meeting
07:10:25 <pravins> #endmeeting