18:03:34 <decause> #startmeeting Fedora Council
18:03:34 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon May 16 18:03:34 2016 UTC.  The chair is decause. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:03:34 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:03:34 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_council'
18:03:36 <langdon> cwickert, you trashing my accent? "right" :)
18:03:40 <decause> #topic Roll Call
18:03:44 <decause> .hello decause
18:03:46 <zodbot> decause: decause 'Remy DeCausemaker' <decause@redhat.com>
18:03:57 <cwickert> langdon: nope, having problems to understand you ;)
18:04:02 <cwickert> .hello cwickert
18:04:03 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@gmail.com>
18:04:04 <langdon> .hello langdon
18:04:06 <zodbot> langdon: langdon 'Langdon White' <langdon@fishjump.com>
18:04:06 <jkurik> .hello jkurik
18:04:09 <zodbot> jkurik: jkurik 'Jan Kurik' <jkurik@redhat.com>
18:04:26 <cwickert> mattdm: ping
18:04:26 <zodbot> cwickert: Ping with data, please: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/No_naked_pings
18:04:35 <langdon> cwickert, careful.. or ill stop using "R"s altogether ;)
18:04:41 <cwickert> come on zodbot,,,
18:05:20 <langdon> zodbot, ping
18:05:20 <zodbot> pong
18:05:55 <jkurik> looks like a productive meeting today :)
18:06:17 <decause> cwickert: mattdm is traveling today
18:06:19 * langdon was getting a bit of exercise plying ping-pong
18:06:21 <cwickert> has anybody heared from Josh?
18:06:26 <decause> #info mattdm is travling from OSCON today, and will not be here with us
18:06:27 <cwickert> decause: ah, thanks
18:06:51 <decause> jwb: unclear though, I saw him posting about Flock talks today, so I think he's on the clock
18:07:26 <cwickert> who else is missing?
18:08:27 <decause> tatica technically
18:08:46 * cwickert just came back from a short vacation, please bear with me if I'm not fully up to speed.
18:09:01 <decause> cwickert: nod nod nod
18:09:35 <decause> if other folks get here, they can .hello later
18:09:39 <decause> #topic Agenda
18:09:49 <decause> 1) Budget Decision
18:10:15 <decause> 2) Tickets
18:10:18 <decause> 3) Open Floor
18:10:26 <danofsatx> note: mattdm is not / was not at OSCON. That starts today. mattdm is leaving Austin after #cls16, whatever that was - the Openstack Summit was there last week, and opensource.org hosted something over the weekend that I'm not clear on.
18:10:48 <decause> danofsatx: yeah, he was at CLS, and is traveling today (from the OSCON area)
18:10:58 <langdon> danofsatx, community leadership summit
18:11:10 <danofsatx> ahh, got it. thanks ;)
18:11:16 * danofsatx is packing for OSCON, carry on
18:11:18 <decause> danofsatx: good call though
18:11:30 <decause> danofsatx: nod nod nod, gonna miss it for the first time in like 3 or so years
18:11:55 <decause> jwb: welcome back :)
18:11:56 <langdon> decause, me too :(
18:12:27 <decause> langdon: we've got Fedorans there though, afaik
18:12:33 <langdon> yeah
18:12:39 <decause> so, let us to the agenda :)
18:12:45 <decause> #topic Budget Decision
18:13:25 <decause> #link https://fedorahosted.org/council/ticket/58
18:14:24 <decause> there was discussion on the ticket, about balancing LATAM, and other concerns
18:14:41 <decause> which I think have been largely addressed in the discussion by mattdm and others
18:15:28 <decause> as this week is the end of the Q1 for FY17, I think it is important that we decide on this today
18:15:43 <decause> it's more like "make it official" than decide actually
18:15:52 <cwickert> is everybody ok with giving the 1k extra to LATAM?
18:15:54 <decause> I'm proud of the discussion we've had over the past month in public
18:16:02 * decause is +1
18:16:11 <cwickert> that is +3 then
18:16:38 <cwickert> langdon: you might want to check my math, but I used a calculator
18:16:43 * jkurik is +1 as well
18:16:55 <langdon> cwickert, :P
18:17:06 <langdon> +1
18:17:24 <decause> next time around, we're going to have spreadsheets with formulas to work off of, and won't have to start from scratch like we did this time
18:17:54 <langdon> btw.. i posted a template for regions that someone needs to x-check
18:17:55 <decause> from the ticket (and from conversations with mattdm) I think he'd be comfortable with us proxying his +1 on this too
18:18:25 <decause> langdon: kk, word. I just uploaded a quarterly report template too in the Q1 folder of FY17
18:18:42 <decause> langdon: link?
18:18:45 <decause> I'll dig for mine too
18:18:51 <langdon> decause, root of the git repo
18:19:11 <decause> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-budget/blob/master/f/FY17/Q1/quarterlyreporttemplate.ods
18:19:44 <decause> langdon: you sure? your last commit is the "magic" commit
18:19:47 <decause> afaics
18:19:59 <langdon> umm
18:20:57 <langdon> i don't see it either.. diff comp though.. so it will take me a minute to see what is up
18:21:32 <decause> langdon: no worries,not a blocker
18:21:38 <decause> ok, is robyduck here too?
18:23:04 <cwickert> doesn't seem so
18:23:42 * decause checks the thread to see if he commented
18:24:10 <cwickert> as we are on lazy consnsus and we have +4, it is save to assume that we agreed on the following distribution
18:24:47 <jkurik> cwickert: I see it in the same way
18:24:51 <decause> I concur
18:25:11 <decause> so unless has any objections, the proposal:
18:25:17 <cwickert> #agreed The council agreed to distribute the regional budget as follows: APAC $11500, EMEA $21650, LATAM $11950, NA $29400
18:25:27 <decause> +1
18:25:31 <cwickert> please undo if I made a mistake
18:26:00 <decause> cwickert: those look right at first glance
18:26:13 <decause> I think we are settled then
18:26:30 <jkurik> ack
18:26:48 <decause> and that we can say that the we have completed another leg of the journey of the public budget process for Fedora
18:27:02 <decause> congratulations council members, this is a milestone for sure :)
18:27:05 <cwickert> everybody; what's your take on reallocating the budget to the council on a quartly base?
18:27:19 <cwickert> I am not convinced this is a good idea
18:27:35 <cwickert> it's called "regional support" budget for a reason
18:28:00 <decause> cwickert: I'm *hopeful* that it will not come to that, but we need to have a mechanism in place in case the process breaks down
18:28:07 <cwickert> and I see no reason why a region that saved some money in Q1 should not spend it in the following quarters
18:28:17 <decause> cwickert: I like the time limits that you set forth
18:28:20 <cwickert> decause: FWIW it will happen, at least in APAC
18:28:48 <cwickert> they are always too optimistic. On the other hand, their FUDCon is struggling
18:29:02 <decause> cwickert: one of the tickets we may discuss today if we have time
18:29:09 <cwickert> gnokii had to cut the number of estimated attendees by 50%
18:30:07 <cwickert> so why not use unspent APAC money to help with the APAC FUDCon? I know, by definition it is a premiere event and therefor comes from a different bucket, but still...
18:30:08 <decause> APAC has done a good job of reporting their spend for FY16, and I think that the process is helping regions
18:31:14 <jkurik> I see it as reasonable when the budget is reallocated when not spent during a year. Having the period set to a quarter looks quite short to me.
18:31:14 <decause> cwickert: that is how it would work, yes. My understanding is that if a region does not cover a Fedora Event entirely with their allocated event budget, they can use their regional budget (or, preferably, sponsorship money raised by the event) to cover the difference.
18:31:56 <decause> jkurik: I think in our first year, we're going to be erring on the side of caution as we work through making the process stick
18:32:01 <cwickert> anyway, I don't want to further explain my criticism. I am seeing some 'centralist' tendencies in the council and with my FAmSCo hat on, I think this goes into the wrong direction. we have been working hard to delegate responsibilities to the regions in the past and it has spurred a lot of enthusiasm and engagement
18:32:50 <cwickert> on the other hand, there seems to be a broad consensus within the council for reallocation
18:33:02 <cwickert> I am not going to block the idea, it's just a warning
18:33:14 <decause> cwickert: I am def glad you are here to wear that hat, but this is certainly much more transparent than anything we've done in the past
18:33:33 <decause> cwickert: it is something we want to maintain, our value of autonomy for regions
18:33:45 * langdon back, sorry got called away urgently, reading scrollback
18:33:55 <cwickert> I'm fine if we agree to do it, but we need to make sure that the message "The money you don't spend within a quarter is gone" reaches all regions
18:34:08 <cwickert> and we should think about increasing the reporting peroid
18:34:35 <decause> cwickert: gone is too strict. I think "optionally reallocatable" (better description coming soon)
18:34:37 <cwickert> decause: IIRC you want it to be 4 weeks, two before and two after the end of the quarter, right?
18:34:52 <cwickert> decause: that's better, thanks
18:35:14 <decause> cwickert: it's not that they wouldn't be able to spend that money, it's just that we /could/ allocate it elsewhere if they do not spend it in time, or report their spending in time.
18:35:42 <decause> really, we want the regions to fully spend their money, and part of this reasoning is to avoid situations where we're "blowing" all of our annual budget at the end of Q4
18:35:55 <decause> and I think a big part of that was that regions were uncertain of where they stood, so they spent more conservatively
18:36:01 <cwickert> decause: ok, then lets try it for a year. It ends up on your plate after all, so I hope it works out
18:36:08 <decause> transparency is going to help this process on both ends :)
18:36:31 <decause> I'm excited, so long as we can keep the lines of communication strong with the treasurers and amabassador leads and delegates
18:36:42 <decause> cwickert: def does :)
18:37:00 <langdon> two comments...
18:37:01 <decause> I'm hopeful though, I really think we did a good job of thinking this through, and getting input and buy-in
18:37:17 <cwickert> but instead of a 2+2 week period at the end of each quarter, I suggest 2+4. As tatica said, reimbursements often take time, so they will not have an overview within the 2 weeks
18:37:19 <langdon> 1) why can't a region just tell the council that they want to save $x from q1 for q2?
18:37:31 <cwickert> langdon++
18:37:31 <zodbot> cwickert: Karma for langdon changed to 8 (for the f23 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:37:45 <langdon> 2) this is an estimate.. we should be revisiting this, at least, quarterly.. the budget should not stay static
18:37:53 <cwickert> if they come up with a reasonable plan, they should be allowed to save the money
18:37:58 <langdon> right
18:38:08 <decause> langdon: that has been mentioned before. Sometimes a region who knows they are going to be spending more for their Event in Q3 will allocate more in Q3
18:38:11 <decause> that is just fine
18:38:15 <decause> we just need that to be clearly stated
18:38:27 <cwickert> decause: ok, I trust in you to do it right, thanks a lot
18:38:36 <decause> I don't think it says anywhere that the Quarters need to be split evenly
18:38:37 <langdon> decause, right.. but per 2 above... they can change their minds
18:38:42 <cwickert> but we really need to explain the new process carefully
18:38:52 <MarkDude> +1
18:38:59 <langdon> and on the plan in general.. we don't really know what we are doing.. lets say "this is the stake in the ground" ... "please provide feedback"
18:39:00 <decause> there just needs to be a plan, and if the plan doesn't pan out (it is a plan, afterall) then we change the plan before the next quarter
18:39:34 <MarkDude> langdon: +1
18:39:50 <langdon> the only guaranteed part of a plan is that none of the plan will survive first contact with the enemy.. or something something
18:39:52 <cwickert> brb
18:40:16 <decause> we're going to be off to a strange start for Q1/Q2, but I think by Q3, we'll be on the 'regular' schedule
18:40:29 <decause> the adjustment period should probably be lengthened in future versions of the timeline
18:40:40 * langdon is not planning on holding his breath ;)
18:40:44 <decause> langdon: :P
18:40:46 <cwickert> re
18:41:48 <decause> we've got 20 mins left
18:41:55 <decause> so I think we should make some action items
18:42:10 <decause> #action decause update budget.fp.o with the regional numbers (\o/)
18:42:38 <decause> #action decause update budget.fp.o timeline with 'extended' adjustment period in the future
18:43:27 <decause> I think that perhaps we should all work together to craft the budget process message (or at least all +1 it) before sending it out to everyone about the planning/reporting
18:43:38 <decause> I think I can likely work with mattdm to get that initial draft together
18:43:52 <langdon> decause, +1
18:45:07 <decause> #action mattdm/decause distill budget planning/reporting/reallocation progress decisions into a cohesive message, and vet with council to post to the lists and sites.
18:45:12 <decause> #undo
18:45:12 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by decause at 18:45:07 : mattdm/decause distill budget planning/reporting/reallocation progress decisions into a cohesive message, and vet with council to post to the lists and sites.
18:45:19 <decause> #action mattdm / decause distill budget planning/reporting/reallocation progress decisions into a cohesive message, and vet with council to post to the lists and sites.
18:45:45 <decause> ok
18:45:54 <decause> any other action items I missed?
18:45:56 <decause> going once
18:45:59 <decause> going twice
18:46:00 <langdon> btw
18:46:10 <langdon> i posted the template..
18:46:15 <decause> langdon++
18:46:21 * decause will take a look after meeting
18:46:27 <decause> langdon: link?
18:46:30 <langdon> so .. it is in the root.. forgot git-push (i was on pto.. so.. yeah.. excuses)
18:46:40 <decause> langdon: unpushed commits happen :)
18:46:43 <decause> esp on PTO
18:46:59 * langdon digs
18:47:24 <langdon> https://pagure.io/fedora-budget/blob/master/f/regional-budget-template.ods
18:47:30 * langdon doesn't think he is a chair
18:47:33 <langdon> #chair
18:47:41 <decause> ooph
18:47:42 <decause> decause--
18:47:50 <cwickert> decause: sorry, real life calls. If there is anything about FUDCon APAC, please let me know so I can discuss it with gnokii on Wednesday. TIA!
18:47:56 <decause> #chair langdon robyduck cwickert jkurik mattdm
18:47:56 <zodbot> Current chairs: cwickert decause jkurik langdon mattdm robyduck
18:48:00 * cwickert will continue lurking...
18:48:18 <langdon> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-budget/blob/master/f/regional-budget-template.ods < competitive region template
18:48:30 <decause> competitive?
18:48:36 <langdon> #action decause to review template ^^
18:48:42 <langdon> decause, to yours, no?
18:48:50 <decause> langdon: nope, mine is a report template :)
18:48:57 <decause> your's is before, mine is after :)
18:49:02 <decause> we meet in the middle :)
18:49:05 <langdon> decause, ahh.. sad.. was hoping for thunderdome
18:49:05 * decause highfives langdon
18:49:21 <decause> there would be much thunder in the dome if we had to battle :)
18:49:32 * langdon sulks about no big huge metal sphere in his backyard
18:49:49 * decause thinks he has ideas for line-items in FY18 budget...
18:49:51 <decause> :P
18:50:02 <decause> (j/k)
18:50:08 <decause> ok
18:50:09 <decause> so
18:50:12 <langdon> ha
18:50:17 <decause> going thrice
18:50:21 <decause> going quadrice
18:50:25 <decause> going quintice
18:50:31 <decause> #topic Tickets
18:50:42 <decause> we've still got about 10 minutes left today in the meeting
18:50:50 <decause> so we can discuss any ongoing ticket discussions
18:51:37 <decause> I'm going start with the easy ones, and go down:
18:51:46 <decause> #link https://fedorahosted.org/council/ticket/50
18:51:55 <decause> #info Schedule a Flock Council Update & Town Hall for Krakow 2016
18:52:31 <decause> This has happened, but I don't want to close the ticket yet, until we all feel comfortable with the format/plan for the town hall meeting
18:52:47 <decause> we should find out this week if the talk was accepted (I'm pretty sure it will be)
18:53:34 <decause> once it is accepted, I'll update the ticket, and the list, and we can maybe even start a repo on pagure with issues/files relating to our session
18:53:42 <decause> (if it is accepted)
18:54:21 <decause> #action decause create a fedora-council repo for council-wide collaborative documents and presentations
18:54:37 <decause> next ticket
18:54:39 <decause> #link https://fedorahosted.org/council/ticket/43
18:54:52 <decause> #info Create the Fedora Public Budget Page
18:55:08 <langdon> decause, is that not closed?
18:55:14 <decause> I think that once we push the regional numbers, and update the reallocation/planning/reporting process, we can safely close this one?
18:55:26 <jkurik> sure
18:55:37 <decause> happy with what we got
18:56:07 <decause> #action decause create a new ticket/RFE about pulling budget data from the pagure repo to auto-update budget.fp.o
18:56:21 <decause> (likely a good GSoC project, for example)
18:56:23 <decause> ok next
18:56:37 <decause> #link https://fedorahosted.org/council/ticket/1
18:56:50 <decause> #info Periodic user/contributor survey
18:57:19 <decause> this is blocking on me. I'm going to add moneydollars to our new LimeSurvey account in OSAS so that tatica can begin the next steps
18:57:31 <decause> #action decause add moneydollars to the limesurvey account
18:58:01 <decause> this is a not decause (exclusively) ticket
18:58:05 <decause> #link https://fedorahosted.org/council/ticket/57
18:58:13 <decause> #info Seeking Council feedback/input on draft third party software policy
18:58:26 <decause> stickster has asked us all to review the 3rd party software policy
18:58:36 <decause> so, if you haven't done so, please #action yourself now to do it
18:58:39 <decause> like so
18:59:01 <decause> #action decause review 3rd party software policy proposal https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Third_party_software_proposal
18:59:08 <decause> any other takers?
18:59:16 <decause> or am I just the last one?
18:59:22 <jkurik> #action jkurik review 3rd party software policy proposal https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Third_party_software_proposal
18:59:45 <jkurik> I did the review already but have not written any feedback to the ticket
18:59:54 <jkurik> so I will do so ...
18:59:56 <decause> jkurik++
19:00:02 <decause> ok
19:00:05 <decause> another quick one:
19:00:09 <decause> #link https://fedorahosted.org/council/ticket/54
19:00:19 <decause> #info Design FAD 2016
19:01:01 <jkurik> it is waiting for FLOCk travelling budget
19:01:02 <decause> The deal here is that there will be some coordinated travel between Flock and design FAD, so we're going to hold off on approval until we get the travel info, which will come after the talk acceptances.
19:01:18 <jkurik> right
19:02:22 <decause> this should be revisted next week for sure
19:02:36 <decause> lastly
19:02:40 <decause> #link https://fedorahosted.org/council/ticket/49
19:02:54 <decause> #info Decision FUDCon APAC 2016
19:03:53 <decause> I'm sort of unsure where this stands from a council perspective
19:04:13 <decause> I think that there are some questions still lingering from FAMSco?
19:04:42 <decause> if not, and FAMSCO is ready to approve, then we should bring it to a vote next time
19:04:45 <robyduck> .hello robyduck
19:04:46 <zodbot> robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' <robyduck@gmail.com>
19:05:16 <decause> I think that this is another one that we should bring up next week for sure
19:05:19 <decause> welcome robyduck :)
19:05:26 <decause> ok
19:05:33 <decause> there are a few more tickets, but we're over time already
19:05:40 <decause> does anyone have anything else?
19:05:46 <decause> going once
19:05:48 <robyduck> sorry,missed my hi all, and sorry to all
19:06:32 <jkurik> going twice :-)
19:06:52 <decause> robyduck: no worries. the only thing you missed was that we checked the math, and it seems there is an extra 1K in the budget, and we agreed to allocate it to LATAM (who got the lowest regional budget)
19:07:01 <decause> do you object to that?
19:07:02 <decause> robyduck: ^
19:07:46 <robyduck> agree
19:07:50 <decause> great!
19:07:53 <decause> officially official then :)
19:07:59 <decause> thanks robyduck
19:08:07 <decause> and with that, I think we can close for the day
19:08:10 <decause> going twice
19:08:15 <decause> going thrice
19:08:21 <decause> going quadrice
19:08:49 <decause> #info Thank you council members, FAmSCo, OSAS, and Volunteers who all helped during the adjustment phase of the budget this year!
19:08:56 <decause> #endmeeting