15:57:09 <jflory7> #startmeeting Fedora CommOps (2016-04-26)
15:57:09 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Apr 26 15:57:09 2016 UTC.  The chair is jflory7. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:57:09 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:57:09 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_commops_(2016-04-26)'
15:57:16 <jflory7> #meetingname commops
15:57:16 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'commops'
15:57:23 <jflory7> #topic Agenda
15:57:28 <jflory7> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:CommOps_2016-04-26
15:57:34 <jflory7> #info (1) Roll Call / Q&A
15:57:39 <jflory7> #info (2) Announcements
15:57:43 <jflory7> #info (3) Action items from last meeting
15:57:49 <jflory7> #info (4) Tickets
15:57:55 <jflory7> #info (5) Wiki Gardening
15:58:01 <jflory7> #info (6) Community Blog
15:58:07 <jflory7> #info (7) Release Schedule
15:58:12 <jflory7> #info (8) Open Floor
15:58:22 <jflory7> #topic Roll Call / Q&A
15:58:24 <jflory7> #info Name; Timezone; Sub-projects/Interest Areas
15:58:24 <danofsatx> already? sheesh..... non-stop meetings this morning....
15:58:32 <jflory7> If this is your first time at a CommOps meeting, feel free to introduce yourself to everyone and say hello! If anyone has any questions before we get started with the rest of the agenda, now is also a good time to ask.
15:58:37 <danofsatx> .hello dmossor
15:58:38 <zodbot> danofsatx: dmossor 'Dan Mossor' <danofsatx@gmail.com>
15:58:49 <Southern_Gentlem> .hello jbwillia
15:58:50 <jflory7> #info Justin W. Flory; UTC-4; CommOps, Marketing / Magazine, Ambassadors, Join, and more
15:58:50 <zodbot> Southern_Gentlem: jbwillia 'Ben Williams' <vaioof@yahoo.com>
15:59:04 <jflory7> danofsatx: Guess today is just a loaded day :)
15:59:10 <jflory7> #chair danofsatx Southern_Gentlem
15:59:10 <zodbot> Current chairs: Southern_Gentlem danofsatx jflory7
15:59:15 <danofsatx> #info Dan Mossor, GMT-6, CommOps/Ambassadors/CampusAmbassadors/Server/KDE
15:59:19 <MarkDude> .hello markdude
15:59:20 <zodbot> MarkDude: markdude 'Mark Terranova' <doctorfoss@gmail.com>
15:59:30 <danofsatx> at least, I think it's GMT -6. Could be -5.
15:59:57 <skamath> .hello skamath
15:59:58 <zodbot> skamath: skamath 'Sachin Kamath ' <sskamath96@gmail.com>
16:00:09 <bkp> .hello bproffit
16:00:10 <zodbot> bkp: bproffit 'Brian Proffitt' <brian@proffitt.org>
16:00:23 <skamath> #info Sachin S. Kamath; UTC+5.30; CommOps, Ambassadors, Security
16:01:05 <bkp> #info Brian Proffitt, GMT-4, social media
16:01:20 <jflory7> #chair MarkDude skamath bkp
16:01:20 <zodbot> Current chairs: MarkDude Southern_Gentlem bkp danofsatx jflory7 skamath
16:01:39 * skamath waves to everyone
16:01:47 * jflory7 waves back
16:01:50 <c0mrad3> #info Tummala Dhanvi ; UTC+5:30 : CommOps , Security , Docs , *
16:01:55 <jflory7> We'll wait a few more minutes for some more people to roll in too.
16:01:57 <jflory7> #chair c0mrad3
16:01:57 <zodbot> Current chairs: MarkDude Southern_Gentlem bkp c0mrad3 danofsatx jflory7 skamath
16:02:06 <wesleyotugo> #info Wesley Otugo, GMT +1, Goto Guy
16:02:21 <linuxmodder> .hello linuxmodder
16:02:22 <zodbot> linuxmodder: linuxmodder 'Corey W Sheldon' <sheldon.corey@openmailbox.org>
16:02:37 <jflory7> #chair wesleyotugo linuxmodder decause
16:02:37 <zodbot> Current chairs: MarkDude Southern_Gentlem bkp c0mrad3 danofsatx decause jflory7 linuxmodder skamath wesleyotugo
16:02:43 * c0mrad3 waves linuxmodder
16:02:58 <jflory7> Wow, a large showing today :)
16:03:08 <MarkDude> +1
16:03:13 <linuxmodder> #info Corey Sheldon UTC-5(Us/EDT)  Commops , Securityteam,Docs,Join,mktg,Social *
16:03:21 <decause> .hello decause
16:03:22 <zodbot> decause: decause 'Remy DeCausemaker' <decause@redhat.com>
16:03:33 <decause> #info rilly good things are happening in Hubs land
16:03:57 <jflory7> Always super exciting to hear :)
16:04:05 <decause> #info decause; UTC-4; CommOps, Council, Hubs, Badges, *
16:04:09 <skamath> So we'll be having a solid Hub soon? :)
16:04:29 <decause> skamath: I think we'll have a solid plan to have a solid hub by Flock soon
16:04:57 <skamath> Sounds cool :)
16:05:09 <decause> skamath: you're going to have a hand in that too
16:05:30 * skamath is super excited
16:05:58 <jflory7> Alrighty! I think we're good to go ahead and get started.
16:06:01 <sayan> .hello sayanchowdhury
16:06:01 <zodbot> sayan: sayanchowdhury 'Sayan Chowdhury' <sayan.chowdhury2012@gmail.com>
16:06:06 <jflory7> #chair sayan
16:06:06 <zodbot> Current chairs: MarkDude Southern_Gentlem bkp c0mrad3 danofsatx decause jflory7 linuxmodder sayan skamath wesleyotugo
16:06:11 <jflory7> Hiya, sayan!
16:06:18 <sayan> sorry for being late :)
16:06:28 <sayan> jflory7: hi!
16:06:41 <jflory7> No worries. :) Feel free to introduce yourself with this line: #info Name; Timezone; Sub-projects/Interest Areas
16:07:19 <decause> jflory7: nod nod nod
16:07:23 <decause> rocknroll
16:07:44 <jflory7> Alrighty, into announcements!
16:07:51 <jflory7> #topic Announcements
16:07:52 <jflory7> #info === "Introducing the extra wallpapers for Fedora 24" ===
16:07:58 <jflory7> #link https://fedoramagazine.org/introducing-extra-wallpapers-fedora-24/
16:07:58 <sayan> #info Sayan Chowdhury; UTC+5:30; CommOps, Magazine, Ambassadors, Marketing
16:08:03 <jflory7> #info The people have spoken! The supplementary wallpapers for Fedora 24 are now official. You can see what beautiful scenery is coming soon to desktops near you in the next release of Fedora.
16:08:07 <skamath> \o/
16:08:10 <jflory7> #info === "Fedora translation sprint – 5 days, 50 members and 20+ thousand words" ===
16:08:16 <jflory7> #link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-translation-sprint-5-days-50-members-20-thousand-words/
16:08:26 <jflory7> #info The Fedora Globalization group ran a 5-day virtual translation sprint to focus on the translation of important GUI packages. During the 5 day sprint, 53 contributors translated 22,723 words to over 18 different languages. Learn more about the awesome work done by the G11n team in the Community Blog article!
16:08:32 <jflory7> #info === Ticket #29 closed ===
16:08:37 * mailga is here
16:08:39 <jflory7> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-commops/ticket/29
16:08:41 <jflory7> #chair mailga
16:08:41 <zodbot> Current chairs: MarkDude Southern_Gentlem bkp c0mrad3 danofsatx decause jflory7 linuxmodder mailga sayan skamath wesleyotugo
16:08:47 <jflory7> Hiya, mailga!
16:08:51 <decause> g11n++
16:08:52 <jflory7> #info Ticket #29, "G11n - proposal for the group revitalization", is now marked as closed. With the publication of the above event report, this was the last action item identified to close out this ticket. Awesome work to everyone involved!
16:08:56 <decause> you folks really did a splendid job
16:08:59 <decause> jonatoni++
16:09:00 <jflory7> #info === Fedora 24 Beta Release Readiness Meeting, Thursday, April 28 19:00 UTC ===
16:09:05 <decause> pravins++
16:09:05 <MarkDude> #info Mark Terranova Northern California, Ambadassadors, Community, Videos, mktg, penguins
16:09:06 <mailga> hello guys!
16:09:11 <jflory7> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/logistics@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/JMZO6YNQSBMQHQNTYKF7EXRK3CMZGGDY/#JMZO6YNQSBMQHQNTYKF7EXRK3CMZGGDY
16:09:14 <jflory7> #info Before each public release all of the groups participating in the development of Fedora's next release meet to make sure the release is well coordinated. This meeting is called the: Release Readiness Meeting. The Release Readiness Meeting is held after after the Go/No-Go Meeting that is held for each public release. CommOpsers are welcome to attend!
16:09:15 * decause waves to mailga
16:09:25 <decause> jflory7++
16:09:34 <jflory7> Okay, and that's all the announcements I had. Anyone else want to add in anything?
16:09:41 <decause> RRM is an important milestone moment for commops
16:09:50 * decause waves to mizmo
16:09:53 <decause> I got one
16:09:54 <mizmo> oh finally
16:09:59 <mizmo> stupid irc client
16:10:12 <decause> mizmo: there is a hubs confab tomo at 14:00UTC, or no?
16:10:16 <MarkDude> Greetings mo
16:10:19 <jflory7> mizmo++
16:10:21 <jflory7> #chair mizmo
16:10:21 <zodbot> Current chairs: MarkDude Southern_Gentlem bkp c0mrad3 danofsatx decause jflory7 linuxmodder mailga mizmo sayan skamath wesleyotugo
16:10:26 <mizmo> decause: yes, that one is about intern plans
16:10:31 <decause> mizmo: kk
16:10:34 <jflory7> decause: Go for it!
16:10:38 <mizmo> hey MarkDude
16:10:47 <trishnag> .hello trishnag
16:10:48 <zodbot> trishnag: trishnag 'Trishna Guha' <trishnaguha17@gmail.com>
16:10:55 <jflory7> #chair trishnag
16:10:55 <zodbot> Current chairs: MarkDude Southern_Gentlem bkp c0mrad3 danofsatx decause jflory7 linuxmodder mailga mizmo sayan skamath trishnag wesleyotugo
16:11:08 <jflory7> Hey trishnag!
16:11:10 <decause> #info if you want to be involved in the Community Bonding for the incoming interns, or are an incoming intern, please join us in #fedora-hubs at 14:00UTC tomorrow.
16:11:11 <trishnag> extremely Sorry for being late.network issue :(
16:11:19 <trishnag> jflory7, Hey :)
16:11:30 <jflory7> trishnag: No worries, it happens!
16:11:47 <decause> jflory7: beta release prolly goes out on Tuesday if it's a go...
16:11:51 <decause> jkurik isn't here
16:11:55 <decause> or else I'd ask
16:12:08 <decause> if the release is a go, then the release notes need to be a go with it
16:12:32 <decause> which is something that'll get work on Friday through Monday, and we could use help with in CommOps land
16:12:35 <jflory7> decause: I think one last check-in for final confirmation, but right now, on track. https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-blocker-review/2016-04-25/f24-blocker-review.2016-04-25-16.02.html
16:13:32 <jflory7> Anyways, any other announcements?
16:13:40 <jflory7> If not, we can can press on
16:13:47 <c0mrad3> jflory7: gsoc results
16:14:03 <jflory7> Huh, odd, thought I had worked that one in.
16:14:04 <decause> c0mrad3: we'll get to that with commblog later ;)
16:14:27 <jflory7> There is a special part of the CommBlog section for it, yeah. :) We have an article planned.
16:14:36 <decause> #info GSoC final selections have been made public
16:14:56 <jflory7> Great!
16:15:02 * skamath was reading it. c0mrad3 : https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/?p=1477&preview=1&_ppp=1693dddaff
16:15:11 <jflory7> #topic Action items from last meeting
16:15:17 <jflory7> #link https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2016-04-19/commops.2016-04-19-15.56.html
16:15:23 <jflory7> #info How This Works: We look at past #action items from the last meeting for quick follow-up. If a task is completed, we move on to the next one. If it isn't, we get an update and re-action it if needed. If no status, we'll try to get a quick update and move forward.
16:15:30 <jflory7> #info === decause complete limesurvey account creation process ===
16:15:47 <jflory7> Any updates here, decause?
16:15:56 <decause> jflory7: I created the account
16:15:59 <decause> it exists
16:16:13 <decause> now I need to fill it with some money dollars, and figure out a way to share the creds very selectively
16:16:21 * jflory7 nods
16:16:26 <decause> this should be similar to how we go about sharing the Social Media creds
16:16:34 <decause> for now, it'll be a shared password most likely
16:16:37 <decause> but
16:16:52 <decause> #action decause fill up the LimeSurvey account with $$$
16:16:54 <decause> jflory7: next
16:17:04 <jflory7> #info === [IN PROGRESS] decause Work on migrating the raw University Involvement Initiative notes from the Etherpad into a more parseable, digestible format (whether wiki or other format) ===
16:17:10 <jflory7> #agreed This action item is now Ticket #68. We will revisit this item later on in the meeting during ticket discussion.
16:17:15 <jflory7> #info === [IN PROGRESS] jflory7 Continue writing and compiling project profiles of BrickHack 2016 participants (three replies so far, need to keep communication channels open) ===
16:17:21 <jflory7> #action jflory7 Continue writing and compiling project profiles of BrickHack 2016 participants
16:17:27 <jflory7> #info === [INCOMPLETE] decause / jflory7 Ping Marketing mailing list about Alpha to Beta release announcement research for May 3rd ===
16:17:31 <decause> jflory7: we made good progress on this during hacksession
16:17:35 <decause> jflory7++
16:17:39 <jflory7> #action decause / jflory7 Ping Marketing mailing list about Alpha to Beta release announcement research for May 3rd
16:17:49 <jflory7> decause: Definitely agreed!
16:17:55 <decause> jflory7: next
16:17:59 <jflory7> And thois one ^^ is high priority this week
16:18:00 <jflory7> * this
16:18:06 <jflory7> #info === [INCOMPLETE] jflory7 Create a WhenIsGood poll for a badges hack session to share with CommOps and Design team ===
16:18:16 <jflory7> #action jflory7 Create a WhenIsGood poll for a badges hack session to share with CommOps and Design team
16:18:21 * decause has 3+ high prio loops this week
16:18:25 <jflory7> #info === [IN PROGRESS] decause / jflory7 Explore how to subscribe the social-media mailing list to the RSS feed of Community Blog ===
16:18:32 <jflory7> #action decause / jflory7 Explore how to subscribe the social-media mailing list to the RSS feed of Community Blog
16:18:35 <decause> nod nod
16:18:39 <jflory7> #info === [COMPLETE] jflory7 Upload the local Albanian F24 translation sprint group photo to the G11n vFAD article on the Community Blog ===
16:18:45 <jflory7> #link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-translation-sprint-5-days-50-members-20-thousand-words/
16:18:50 <decause> such a good one!
16:18:52 <jflory7> #info === [IN PROGRESS] justharshal / dhanesh95 Work on moving the Etherpad notes into a more readable format on the University Involvement Initiative wiki page; after converting it, send to CommOps mailing list for feedback and review ===
16:18:59 <jflory7> #agreed This action item is now Ticket #68. We will revisit this item later on in the meeting during ticket discussion.
16:19:05 <decause> nod nod
16:19:07 <jflory7> #info === [INCOMPLETE] commops / jflory7 Create tickets for the above items 1-3 so they can be assigned and broken up among CommOps members ===
16:19:16 <jflory7> #nick commops
16:19:19 <decause> :P
16:19:29 <jflory7> #action commops / jflory7 Create tickets for items 1-3 from Ticket #69 so they can be assigned and broken up among CommOps members
16:19:36 <jflory7> #info === [COMPLETE] jflory7 Review and edit "Fedora translation sprint" article for publication on Thursday, if possible ===
16:19:42 <jflory7> #link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-translation-sprint-5-days-50-members-20-thousand-words/
16:19:47 <jflory7> #info === [INCOMPLETE] jflory7 Ship the "Fedora Media Writer" article ASAP, contact author about dropping a link on the CommOps mailing list next time so we don't wind up last minute ===
16:19:52 <jflory7> #info This deadline was missed, was not published the day of the event :(
16:20:04 <jflory7> Okay, and that's all the action items.
16:20:06 <jflory7> #topic Tickets
16:20:11 <jflory7> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-commops/report/9
16:20:20 <jflory7> #info === Ticket #34, 49 ===
16:20:27 <jflory7> #info #39: "[Onboarding Series] [MASTER TICKET] Creating sub-project on-boarding badge series"
16:20:33 <jflory7> #info #49: "[Onboarding Series] Infrastructure"
16:20:37 <jflory7> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-commops/ticket/34
16:20:42 <jflory7> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-commops/ticket/49
16:20:50 <jflory7> A lot of discussion and planning for the strategy and approach for these tickets and Fedora Hubs happened last week with decause, mizmo, ryanlerch, and sayan.
16:21:02 <jflory7> decause: Do you want to do the #info items summarizing this one?
16:21:04 <decause> jflory7: that was the big piece of the Hubs meeting today
16:21:12 * jflory7 wasn't there for the full part of the hacksession for this
16:21:45 <decause> #info CommOps Team Onboarding Steps > Badges Team Missing Badges > Hubs Team Badges Tracks and Widgets
16:21:52 <decause> this is the flow of coordination
16:21:58 <decause> that we'd like to target for Flock
16:22:15 <decause> that means
16:22:37 <decause> #action CommOps solidify onboarding steps before 5/23 internships begin
16:23:00 <skamath> I can help :)
16:23:12 <decause> skamath: :)
16:23:14 <decause> skamath++
16:23:37 <decause> #info folks who want to be involved with this workflow please join us tomo at 14:00UTC in #fedora-hubs
16:23:41 <decause> jflory7: next
16:24:05 <skamath> I'll be pulling off from May 3 until the 23rd. Have my semster exams. Until then, I can work on something for sure
16:24:23 <jflory7> #info === Ticket #68 ===
16:24:24 <jflory7> #info "Reconstructing the Campus Ambassadors program and campus outreach"
16:24:30 <jflory7> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-commops/ticket/68
16:24:36 <jflory7> #link http://etherpad.osuosl.org/fedora-EDU-refresh
16:24:43 <jflory7> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Objectives/University_Involvement_Initiative
16:24:49 <jflory7> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Objectives/University_Involvement_Initiative/draft
16:24:53 <jflory7> Last meeting, justharshal and dhanesh95 were going to work on moving the Etherpad contents into a more readable and formalized format on the wiki. Are there any updates on this progress or any questions that need to be answered?
16:25:06 <jflory7> It seems like neither of them are here today, however.
16:25:20 <jflory7> We may have to check in on this one later in channel or on the mailing list.
16:25:23 <MarkDude> Is Campus still gonna be around, or is it contracting?
16:25:39 <decause> MarkDude: not sure what you mean
16:25:41 <jflory7> MarkDude: My understanding is that it will be around but in a different form than what it is now
16:25:46 <jflory7> New program, same name
16:25:56 <MarkDude> Ah ok. tnx eof
16:26:02 <decause> what jflory7 said :)
16:26:31 * jflory7 can't think of anything else for this ticket right now
16:26:45 <jflory7> Do we want to just check-in next time?
16:26:52 <jflory7> Or in the previously mentioned ways too
16:26:54 <decause> #action decause talk to spot about scheduling an EDU fad after budget gets settled
16:27:02 <decause> now I'm good
16:27:04 <jflory7> Ahh, yes, for sure
16:27:17 <decause> spot: :)
16:27:20 <jflory7> We'll check in with justharshal and dhanesh soon
16:27:56 <jflory7> #agreed justharshal and dhanesh95 are still working on this ticket but neither of them are present in today's meeting. We will check in on the status of this with them over the next week either in channel or on the mailing list.
16:28:09 <jflory7> #info === Ticket #69 ===
16:28:14 <jflory7> #info "Fedora Modularity onboarding"
16:28:21 <jflory7> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-commops/ticket/69
16:28:30 <jflory7> #info (1) Someone can review the contents of their on-boarding wiki page and pass feedback about them in the ticket, as compared to other on-boarding methods in Fedora
16:28:37 <jflory7> #info (2) Putting together a badge proposal for membership in the Modularity WG (in the form of a ticket on the fedora-badges Trac)
16:28:45 <jflory7> #info (3) A Community Blog article announcing the presence of the Modularity WG, what they are, what they do, how to get involved (penned by one of the WG members)
16:28:49 <jflory7> Last meeting, we identified three smaller items of this ticket that needed to be broken up into smaller tickets so CommOps members could help take on the tasks. jflory7 still needs to create the tickets (will do today). Is there any other discussion needed here?
16:29:07 <jflory7> The tickets are being blocked on me right now, I really need to file those
16:29:32 <jflory7> Already #action'd it earlier on.
16:29:37 <decause> jflory7: this is high prio, hacksesion candidate for this week
16:29:39 <mailga> ?
16:29:41 <decause> we've had the ball for 2 weeks now
16:29:45 <decause> we gotta shoot it
16:29:46 <jflory7> mailga: Go ahead!
16:29:53 <linuxmodder> never saw the gsoc article did I just  miss it
16:29:57 * decause is sorry for the sportsball metaphors :P
16:30:15 <jflory7> decause: Agreed. Let's put another hack session on the map. Maybe this one can use the whenisgood results.
16:30:16 * decause will help ship it too
16:30:20 <jflory7> linuxmodder: It's not published quite yet.
16:30:21 <mailga> reading the ticket I'm not sure about the meaning of modularisation.
16:30:39 <linuxmodder> jflory7,  come on now -- 4 days  on now
16:30:40 <decause> mailga: this is a Council-level objective that we're helping to grow the team for
16:30:54 <decause> linuxmodder: we needed to confirm the hires
16:30:59 <decause> they had to accept
16:31:02 <jflory7> linuxmodder: We were waiting over the weekend to confirm the results from the GSoC students
16:31:40 <mailga> decause: sometimes I get issues to understand targets, sorry.
16:31:45 <decause> mailga: no worries
16:31:50 * decause digs up the objective link
16:31:54 <jflory7> mailga, decause: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Modularization
16:31:57 <decause> mailga: langdon has been posting about it on the commblog too
16:32:05 <jflory7> That wiki page should help explain the details of the objective too
16:32:15 <decause> mailga: this is part of the reason why we need to help with onboarding :)
16:32:27 <decause> ok, timecheck, we're at 50%
16:32:38 <jflory7> The Lego metaphor is a good way of thinking of Modularization :)
16:32:43 <jflory7> decause: Okay, good call
16:32:47 <decause> jflory7: I want to be sure we've got ample time for Open Floor today also
16:32:52 <jflory7> Agreed
16:32:55 <jflory7> For this ticket:
16:33:02 <decause> jflory7: hard-stop at t-minus 10 mins
16:33:18 <jflory7> I have my action items to file, we will plan this for hack session
16:33:27 <MarkDude> +1 /me has ticket 72 to bring up (when we get to it.) :)
16:33:30 <decause> jflory7: agreed. Modularity and Beta Release notes
16:33:52 <mailga> jflory7 decause thanks (a bit circumstantial project, seems to me).
16:33:58 <decause> BFD parts of the project CommOps, this is really cool place to be in the thick of it :)
16:34:05 <jflory7> #agreed jflory7 will file the smaller tickets for this one this week. We will work on the specific targets in the next hack session we plan.
16:34:19 <skamath> jflory7++
16:34:24 <MarkDude> Breaking it into pieces makes it more doable +1
16:34:26 <jflory7> #info === Ticket #70 ===
16:34:31 <jflory7> #info "FOSS Student Pack"
16:34:37 <jflory7> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-commops/ticket/70
16:34:55 <jflory7> This ticket was oriented towards outreach and making an impact towards students
16:34:55 <skamath> Woah. A ticket was made for that?
16:34:59 * skamath missed it
16:35:08 <jflory7> Its inspiration comes from the GitHub Student Pack but with a more FOSS-friendly approach :)
16:35:32 <danofsatx> sorry, I was away for a bit. Something came up that I had to deal with.
16:35:36 <jflory7> skamath: Yeah, this was meskarune's ticket! :)
16:35:45 <decause> meskarune++
16:35:45 <zodbot> decause: Karma for meskarune changed to 5 (for the f23 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
16:35:50 <skamath> meskarune++
16:35:50 <zodbot> skamath: Karma for meskarune changed to 6 (for the f23 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
16:35:50 <jflory7> meskarune++
16:35:57 <MarkDude> This ticket is great. Can be used in many areas.
16:36:05 <MarkDude> meskarune++
16:36:08 <skamath> Indeed!
16:36:08 <jflory7> I think next steps for this ticket is to identify what kind of things that would be useful in the pack, no?
16:36:24 <jflory7> What software / what services, etc.
16:36:25 <mailga> jflory7: are we sure we need another spin-like media with the student pack?
16:36:32 <decause> jflory7: yeah, I reckon a ML post about it would be a good step, with a link to a wiki page and/or etherpad
16:36:36 <skamath> We should get in touch with DigitalOcean. THey might be supportive :)
16:36:47 <jflory7> mailga: Hmmm, I don't think it would be in the form of a spin as much of a "digital resource", like the GitHub Student Pack/
16:36:54 <jflory7> mailga: Kind of like this. https://education.github.com/pack
16:37:16 <jflory7> decause: I can take an action item for this to generate the discussion.
16:37:41 <jflory7> #action jflory7 Post to the mailing list with ideas about the FOSS Student Pack, along with links to a planning pad either on the wiki or in an Etherpad
16:37:49 <jflory7> Anything else for this ticket?
16:37:50 <trishnag> meskarune++
16:37:50 <zodbot> trishnag: Karma for meskarune changed to 7 (for the f23 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
16:37:57 <skamath> jflory7: Will this be restricted to people with a .edu email?
16:38:19 <decause> skamath: in our case, not necessarily I don't think. for Github, that is their model.
16:38:20 <mailga> jflory7: ok, that's better. So seems a group of packages, aren't they. Nothing to develop ad-hoc?
16:38:23 <MarkDude> skamath: nope, edu is not what all Unis use
16:38:27 <jflory7> skamath: I guess that would depend on the type of things given. If it's free resources, then probably not.
16:38:38 <jflory7> mailga: Yeah, pretty much, I think.
16:38:47 <skamath> Makes sense.
16:39:06 <langdon> jflory7, mailga, decause sorry.. was afk.. anything else i can answer about modularization? or better as a separate discussion?
16:39:50 <skamath> Timecheck : We have 20 minutes.
16:39:50 <jflory7> Alrighty, I think for Ticket #70, we should be good. Watch the mailing lists for more information about the Student Pack discussion soon, we will want a lot of brainstorming and ideas for this one. Marketing should probably be in the loop too.
16:39:52 <mailga> jflory7: I like it. We only need someone o something say us which packages we can fill.
16:40:15 <jflory7> langdon: I don't think so, mailga was curious about what it was but I think the questions were answered?
16:40:20 * jflory7 nods
16:40:31 <jflory7> skamath++
16:40:33 <danofsatx> skamath: MY kids' local district uses .net for their email addresses, tying things to .edu screws up lot of programs for them
16:40:59 <decause> jflory7: lets discuss this ticket on the list, and continue with agenda. I'm glad people are exited, but we should have the convo on a list :)
16:41:01 <jflory7> My old high school used a .org TLD. I think we can keep it open to not be dependent or blocking on email addresses
16:41:02 <mailga> langdon jflory7 Yes, I'm satified about the modularization question Thanks.
16:41:05 <jflory7> +1 decause
16:41:08 <danofsatx> the district office has to get involved when it becomes an issue
16:41:09 <jflory7> Let's jump into the last ticket.
16:41:14 <jflory7> #info === Ticket #71 ===
16:41:15 <jflory7> #info "Centralizing Ambassadors / Events resources and utilities"
16:41:18 <jflory7> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-commops/ticket/71
16:41:21 <jflory7> This ticket has to do with bringing together several different resources and tools for Ambassadors and events into a single place. zoltanh721 also left feedback on this ticket (was originally filed in the Marketing Trac).
16:41:28 <langdon> cool
16:41:58 <skamath> danofsatx: It's worse here. I don't even have a univ. maiil :p
16:41:59 <jflory7> This request was originally a 10 month old ticket that was before CommOps was a thing. It was filed in the Marketing Trac, but I think now with CommOps, it makes more sense for us to take this one
16:42:34 <MarkDude> This ticket is another priority for us IMHO. Zoltan has some ideas on integration with Fedora infra
16:42:51 <mailga> jflory7: the discussion about the "Amby-kit" started a long time before the ticket. I'm not sure we can do this.
16:43:11 <MarkDude> Also an example of CommOps being a motivator to inspire contribs :) eof
16:43:28 <skamath> MarkDude++
16:43:28 <zodbot> skamath: Karma for markdude changed to 6 (for the f23 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
16:44:02 <jflory7> I think the aim for the ticket is more so about consolidating the resources in one place. For example, take many of the resources Ambassadors might use for events, e.g. media covers, brochures, or other basic information
16:44:02 <MarkDude> mailga: I think its the name that can limit, if so, we can change the name to sumthin' Community, IMO
16:44:11 <jflory7> It would be tied together in a single place
16:44:17 <jflory7> Even if some of it were pointers
16:44:24 <MarkDude> jflory7: +1
16:44:24 <mailga> We have a life cycle of the kit very short. IMHO. The only thing that never change is the logo.
16:44:28 <jflory7> e.g. Design-Team stuff is in the Design-Team PAgure / GitHub
16:44:39 <jflory7> Like the Python brochure is going to live there, if I recall mizmo saying
16:45:02 <jflory7> mailga: I think it would be a good idea to sort it by release or general purpose if it were in the format of a Pagure repo
16:45:16 <jflory7> Just with many directories that organize the needed information in a tidy and neat format
16:45:20 <MarkDude> mailga: you mean the flow, I agree there, If we have a process for updating, its not a manual thing :)
16:45:24 <jflory7> I am worried about upkeep and overhead, though
16:45:29 <mailga> jflory7: we should be careful also to the budget.
16:45:34 <decause> timecheck: 5 mins
16:45:41 <MarkDude> Automate it.
16:45:51 <mailga> MarkDude: exactly.
16:46:03 <decause> jflory7: we should skip to CommBlog Updates, IMHO, that'll go fast
16:46:06 <jflory7> I should probably open some cross-list mailing list discussion on this one, we're running out of time
16:46:06 <MarkDude> Sorta like my ticket suggests. We can do it all the time, or make a process
16:46:46 <skamath> decause: It's 16:46 UTC
16:46:57 <jflory7> #action jflory7 Open discussion on the mailing list about Ticket #71 and centralizing Ambassador resources (to get brainstorming going)
16:47:20 <jflory7> skamath: we have a hard stop at 16:50 UTC today for Open Floor.
16:47:24 <MarkDude> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-commops/ticket/72 besides, LATAM and EMEA, Im sure there might be other meeting logs/times not current on the wiki. The "fixing process" could help other parts of Communities in Fedora. Automation via Fed-msg
16:47:27 <jflory7> Okay, we will speed through Community Blog
16:47:35 <skamath> Oh, okay
16:47:40 <jflory7> #topic Community Blog
16:47:46 <jflory7> #info How This Works: There is a quick blast of information about what was published in the past week with some metrics, followed by posts that are being drafted. After the information blast, the floor is opened for any Community Blog-related discussion. Here we go!
16:47:51 <jflory7> #info === This week in CommBlog ===
16:47:56 <jflory7> #info (1) "Fedora translation sprint – 5 days, 50 members and 20+ thousand words"
16:47:58 * skamath grabs popcorn
16:48:00 <jflory7> #link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-translation-sprint-5-days-50-members-20-thousand-words/
16:48:01 <MarkDude> Sorry, will wait til open :)
16:48:05 <jflory7> #info Total Views (Apr. 21 - Apr. 25): 406
16:48:10 <jflory7> #link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/wp-admin/admin.php?page=stats&view=post&post=1434
16:48:10 <decause> not too shabby :)
16:48:14 <jflory7> #info === Coming up in CommBlog ===
16:48:16 <skamath> Nice :)
16:48:19 <jflory7> #info (1) "DevConfCZ 2016: Event Report"
16:48:24 <jflory7> #link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/?p=1027&preview=1&_ppp=6b95d2c034
16:48:26 <decause> lololsobsobsob
16:48:31 <jflory7> #info (2) "Announcing Fedora Google Summer of Code (GSoC) Class of 2016"
16:48:36 <decause> woohoo
16:48:37 <jflory7> #link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/?p=1477&preview=1&_ppp=1693dddaff
16:48:43 <jflory7> #info (3) "Fedora's Love For Python Continues"
16:48:48 <jflory7> #link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/?p=1470&preview=1&_ppp=8324c1b68a
16:48:53 <jflory7> #info (4) "Fedora at Bitcamp 2016"
16:48:56 <jflory7> Still in progress, jflory7 will help write this one
16:49:03 <jflory7> #action jflory7 Write Bitcamp 2016 article on CommBlog and point to individual event reports by other Ambassadors
16:49:08 <MarkDude> decause had great post on not being afraid, as well as snowball effect in fixing what seems like simple problem. So can relate
16:49:18 <decause> bkp++
16:49:23 <jflory7> #idea Maybe the CommBlog would be better suited to have its own separate meeting time slot, even if just a 30 minute meeting
16:49:27 <skamath> jflory7++ Let's overflow the cookie buffer!
16:49:33 <jflory7> skamath: :)
16:50:03 <decause> jflory7: maybe adding another 30 mins to our slot for it?
16:50:06 <jflory7> MarkDude: It was a pretty great blog post from decause :)
16:50:19 <jflory7> Either adding 30 minutes or a new time slot works well for me
16:50:20 <danofsatx> we should be expecting another event report from LFNW soon, too
16:50:27 <jflory7> danofsatx: Ooh! That's awesome to hear.
16:50:33 <decause> danofsatx++
16:50:37 <MarkDude> jflory7: similar toMagazine and Mktg +1
16:50:48 <jflory7> Okay, we're at 16:50 UTC. Let's do a quick topic cycling...
16:50:55 <danofsatx> notice I said "should" ;)
16:50:59 <jflory7> #topic Release Schedule
16:51:00 <jflory7> #link https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-24/f-24-key-tasks.html
16:51:07 <jflory7> #topic Open Floor
16:51:18 <MarkDude> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-commops/ticket/72 besides, LATAM and EMEA, Im sure there might be other meeting logs/times not current on the wiki. The "fixing process" could help other parts of Communities in Fedora. Automation via Fed-msg
16:51:24 * jflory7 looks
16:51:37 <MarkDude> Mostly it makes sense to do this all via infra, or admin
16:51:39 <skamath> There's no wiki gardening today?
16:51:55 <MarkDude> skamath: my ticket is under this
16:52:19 <MarkDude> Gardening, as well as looking for other places that could use help in update process
16:52:33 <skamath> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_Coding_SIG This wiki needs gardening. Does this come under CommOps?
16:52:41 <MarkDude> As well as making sure meeting folks know standard names
16:52:43 <jflory7> MarkDude: Looks like a ticket is here: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/5228
16:53:04 <decause> MarkDude: this will be a *great* thing for the Ambassador Hub
16:53:37 <jflory7> MarkDude: Actually, it looks like the wiki page is fixed?
16:53:47 <MarkDude> Ah ok. I figured it made sense to point to somewhere, I can post link to current ticket
16:53:57 <decause> I /think/ we have a meetings widget defined, but adding that to the default ambassador hub is a ticket that could be filed perhaps?
16:54:07 <jflory7> skamath: Yeah, that would probably fall under CommOps for wiki gardening, I think. :)
16:54:12 <MarkDude> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_meetings
16:54:18 <MarkDude> Some date back to 2013
16:54:28 <MarkDude> Let alone current meetings/chairs
16:54:59 * MarkDude tables ticket until later, looks like we have progress. Eof
16:55:12 * jflory7 nods
16:55:14 <MarkDude> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_meetings
16:55:31 * MarkDude defers to Open Floor :)
16:55:38 <decause> this is a *prime* example for why we need Hubs
16:55:57 <decause> reminds me of wikiclock :P
16:56:10 <MarkDude> decause: +1
16:56:25 * jflory7 will be right back
16:57:08 <MarkDude> skamath: are you volunteering to help garden there? :D
16:57:24 * mailga is guessing there are so amny page people have to get updated.... If each one creates a new page for everything the owner have to maintain it, people are not able to know how many pages have been created for the same thing.
16:57:28 <skamath> MarkDude: Aye Aye!
16:57:48 <decause> skamath: you can #action yourself when you wanna take on a task
16:58:04 <decause> #action decause let skamath know they can use #action to assign tasks
16:58:11 <decause> #undo
16:58:11 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by decause at 16:58:04 : decause let skamath know they can use #action to assign tasks
16:58:17 <decause> #action decause let skamath know they can use #action to self-assign tasks
16:58:24 <decause> like that
16:58:32 <MarkDude> mailga: Fed-msg and the magic bus can help with this, IMO. As decause said to, with hubs :)
16:59:12 <skamath> #action skamath help with gardening of Summer Coding wiki
16:59:57 <mailga> MarkDude: I'm still hoping people don't create page for each idea, we need some rules.
17:00:03 <decause> ok, we're about to be out of time
17:00:11 <decause> does anyone else have things for Open floor today?
17:00:32 <MarkDude> mailga: think of how processes could be updated via automation maybe later, eof
17:00:44 <decause> we wanted to make sure we made time for New Biz today, as per our discussions last week, and as a way to improve engagement with commops team.
17:00:49 <mailga> MarkDude: ok
17:01:17 <MarkDude> Lets talk after meeting :)
17:01:34 <skamath> decause: jflory7 and I were looking to hangout with you whenever you are free and plan for GSoC
17:01:47 <decause> mailga: yeah, we don't want to over-saturate hubs. Right now there are hubs for teams, and individuals, and regions(maybe) and projects (maybe)
17:01:50 <decause> :P
17:02:15 * jflory7 is back
17:02:15 <decause> mailga: we're still figuring it out, but we don't want to just have a "copy" of the wiki
17:02:17 <jflory7> skamath++
17:02:26 <decause> any other new biz?
17:02:35 <linuxmodder> decause,  et. al Any better ideas for how to better seek out better  on-boarding  docs / tactics
17:02:43 <mailga> decause: +1 till we don't know how hubs is structured we have to wait. IMO.
17:03:00 <jflory7> #info jflory7 is going to be getting into the final parts of his semester soon and will not be as active as normal in coming weeks
17:03:05 <decause> mailga: Hubs is about to get a *huge* boost from interns starting at end of May
17:03:31 <mailga> decause: Im looking forward to it.
17:03:49 <decause> linuxmodder: we're working on the onboarding series of badges for each group, based on existing process. Once that is in the books, i think we can start to think about how to improve/supplment the strategy
17:04:07 <decause> linuxmodder: it should be an ongoing discussion in the meantime though
17:04:18 <decause> onboarding is something we're doing constantly
17:04:24 <decause> with or without ramps
17:04:56 <linuxmodder> personally  I could care  a hoot about the badges
17:05:04 <linuxmodder> I mean the hard skills
17:05:09 <decause> linuxmodder: the Hubs team had a *great* discussion today about creating paths/tracks around badges, and getting missions, and identifying natural examplars for contributions
17:06:04 <jflory7> Badges are an essential part of teaching the "hard skills" in my opinion
17:06:08 <decause> linuxmodder: the badges *represent* achievements in hard skills development, and actual contirbutions. they are a reflection of actual activity
17:06:08 <MarkDude> linuxmodder: +1 on the skillz thing. Badges are still loved by many. Gameification
17:06:36 <jflory7> They're a tool to help guide the way towards contributing, from both beginner and more advanced perspectives
17:06:52 <linuxmodder> decause,  they are being toted like a  bloody HS popularity contest imo
17:07:03 <linuxmodder> and flawed in that evenb
17:07:06 <decause> linuxmodder: where?
17:07:33 <decause> linuxmodder: I understand the dangers of 'ranking' and making it too much of a competition, something that we've worked into tahrir to help address
17:07:42 <linuxmodder> the  seemingly  meaningless tasks for  many of them  lends to a  leaderboard scramble
17:07:59 <decause> linuxmodder: the tasks are not meaningless
17:08:00 <linuxmodder> really  doesn't seem so
17:08:10 <decause> they are based on real activities that happen in Fedora
17:08:18 <decause> not arbitrary tasks that someone thought up
17:08:24 <linuxmodder> decause,  the ssh and gpg key  badges for example imo are  useless and pointless
17:08:31 <decause> linuxmodder: ummm
17:08:35 <decause> ssh keys?
17:08:38 <decause> must have for Fedora Infra team
17:08:40 <linuxmodder> fas upload
17:08:48 <skamath> Crypto badger ;)
17:08:49 <decause> and gpg
17:08:50 <wesleyotugo> Different strokes for different folks
17:08:51 <MarkDude> Thats a decent point, I heard Jono Bacon's words when I saw my ranking for badges "Gameify ALL the things."
17:08:52 <decause> encryption?
17:08:54 <decause> useless?
17:08:58 <linuxmodder> again a  mere check of your user wiki would  show that
17:08:59 <decause> I dunno linuxmodder
17:09:09 <jflory7> Not if the person doesn't have the info in their wiki
17:09:27 <decause> linuxmodder: not if you don't update your wiki
17:09:28 <jflory7> The badges are pointers to say, "Hey, you should add this thing to your FAS account"
17:09:43 <skamath> We should probably move back home. We're 10 min over.
17:09:47 <linuxmodder> jflory7,  again make the WIKI a  FORCED piece of the on board that  becomes a  moot issue
17:09:47 <decause> and "you should add this thing" isn't just a 'good idea' it is a part of FOSS culture, and Fedora Contribution Tools we need
17:09:48 <MarkDude> +1 for linuxmodder to make a proposal on this. I love the badges, but am open to new ideas
17:09:53 <linuxmodder> and  the user is  accountable more
17:09:54 <misc> decause: if people do not use the key besides creating it, that's a bit pointless
17:10:06 <misc> decause: but tracking if people use the key on ml would be different
17:10:08 <decause> when signed commits *hopefully* become a standard, the gpg key will be more important than ever
17:10:14 <jflory7> linuxmodder: But that's not going to be the preferred format for the Infrastructure team for instance
17:10:25 <misc> (now, using gpg is already a achievement by itself)
17:10:29 <linuxmodder> misc,  exactly
17:10:40 <MarkDude> decause: - not if Fedoran is a People Person :)
17:10:47 <linuxmodder> and if they do it for a  badge and  the leaderboard its utterly  useless
17:10:49 <decause> misc: having a gpg key but never using it is kind of pointless, yes, but if you never create one, then you *def* will never use one ;)
17:11:15 <jflory7> This badge will also fit into the series like the Infrastructure on-boarding one which guides new members wanting to contribute through the process of becoming a member
17:11:19 * mailga has to go, dinner time here. See you guys.
17:11:19 <linuxmodder> decause,  github already  supports them  and  pagure has  the  needed bits to from what I've seen
17:11:22 <decause> misc: and having a badge for gpg signing an email would be an *amazing* badge to help encourage folks to use it
17:11:26 <decause> and that helps build culture
17:11:30 <jflory7> Badges intends to make it more intuitive and natural for people wanting to get involved
17:11:32 <skamath> mailga: Good bye :)
17:11:37 <decause> that is important even outside of Fedora, but in the web of trust and FOSS
17:11:38 <jflory7> mailga: Enjoy your evening, see ya!
17:11:39 <misc> in fact, now there is mailman3, being able to see if a mail sent is signed by a key and track how often you used it and for how long, that's pushing for doing the right thing
17:11:54 <decause> mailga: thanks for joining us today :)
17:12:01 <linuxmodder> make the  mailing lists signed msg only  after the  'hello world' even
17:12:20 <wesleyotugo> misc: The badges could work in that aspect
17:12:25 <decause> misc: we're actually going to be brainstorming the next badges for each of the new fedmsg types added since the previous release
17:12:37 <decause> this includes mailman, but also bugzilla, and zanata :) :) :)
17:12:49 <decause> misc: we haven't gotten there yet, but we will :)
17:12:56 <misc> mailman should be renamed to mailmana
17:13:02 <jflory7> I'm personally +1 for using badges over a list on a wiki because the end goal is to make it more intuitive and easy for new members to become involved. We've had this information on the wiki for a long time already and this has been the default way of onboarding new contributors. It doesn't make sense to me to tread backwards on all the progress of badges and not tap into their use as tools
17:13:05 <decause> misc: lolol +1
17:13:08 <misc> (then you can have a mailmana potion)
17:13:08 <skamath> lol
17:13:09 <MarkDude> And all of those things do not apply to one ttype of Fedoran at least "people person" eof
17:13:36 <MarkDude> +1 mailmana
17:13:40 <linuxmodder> decause,  STOP
17:13:42 <decause> MarkDude: we need more "people person" badges, which I *def* think mailman badges will help with
17:13:50 <linuxmodder> not everythign needs a bloody badge
17:13:52 <jflory7> Regularly signing emails with GPG would be a cool series if it's possible within fedmsg
17:14:05 <linuxmodder> why inside fedmsg ?
17:14:22 <linuxmodder> gpg signing  does not need fedmsg at all
17:14:27 <jflory7> For hooking into the Badges and making an automated hook for it
17:14:31 <jflory7> No, it doesn't, obviously
17:14:32 <linuxmodder> I sign all my emails  even outside of  fedora
17:14:34 <jflory7> But it encourages good behavior
17:14:41 <sgallagh> jflory7: I don't think we want to be pushing the full body of email through fedmsg.
17:14:43 <decause> linuxmodder: you can hate on it if you'd like, not everyone needs to buy into it, but the next gen of contributors do, and we have a clear, multi-year path, with *massive* buy in across the project, so unless you have a better idea, (which I'm very happy to hear about) I htink we can agree to disagree here.
17:14:43 <linuxmodder> again I
17:14:44 <wesleyotugo> But really what is the end-goal of badges ?
17:14:46 <sgallagh> That's a waste of bandwidth
17:15:06 <linuxmodder> I'm lacking the  link to  wanting or needing it tied to  jack in fedmsg
17:15:09 <jflory7> sgallagh: I don't think so either, which is why I wasn't sure if this is something that would be possible with Mailman3 or not, like a simple boolean.
17:15:11 <decause> sgallagh: we def dont push the content in the fedmsg
17:15:31 <sgallagh> decause: Right, so doing deep-content inspection isn't going to happen from that direction.
17:15:36 <skamath> We are 15 min over.
17:15:39 <wesleyotugo> Is it to encourage new user for a leadership battle or to recognize the pioneers and the workers ?
17:16:14 <decause> sgallagh: these kinds of "possible/not possible" discussions are good, and we want badges to be as automated as possible
17:16:22 <decause> skamath: we are
17:16:25 <decause> .nextmeeting
17:16:25 <zodbot> decause: (nextmeeting <channel>) -- Return the next meeting scheduled for a particular channel.
17:16:29 * MarkDude thinks time is of issue for meeting. linuxmodder has brought up some things I can see have merit. But at core of it - is creation of gpg or using it
17:16:31 <decause> .nextmeeting #fedora-meeting
17:16:32 <zodbot> decause: In #fedora-meeting is i18n meeting (starting in 12 hours)
17:16:35 <zodbot> decause: In #fedora-meeting is Workstation WG (starting in 20 hours)
17:16:38 <zodbot> decause: In #fedora-meeting is EMEA Ambassadors (starting in a day)
17:16:40 <linuxmodder> jflory7,  decause  explain HOW  linking badges or fedmsg to  such tasks  does  didly  jack for   'buy in'
17:16:41 <zodbot> decause: - https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/location/fedora-meeting%40irc.freenode.net/
17:16:45 <skamath> Okay :p
17:16:46 <wesleyotugo> Decause ++
17:16:50 <wesleyotugo> jflory7 ++
17:17:31 <decause> linuxmodder: are you kidding me? have you looked at our event reports for fosdem? or the tahrir front end? almost every month the top badge leaders are new commops contribs who did the onboarding series.
17:17:44 <decause> tell me how anything that we haven't tried has done any better?
17:17:52 <linuxmodder> that brings up another thing we talked about last week WHY are  we  back to back mtgs  all the time and  forcing mtgs to 1 hr  everytime
17:18:03 <decause> linuxmodder: I get it, you don't like badges, but saying "diddly squat" is asking me to prove the negative here
17:18:36 * jflory7 needs to head out now, will read up on minutes / channel later on
17:18:57 <decause> linuxmodder: I get it, you don't like badges, and that is fine, but unless you have a better way of tapping into our real-time infrastructure to bring more attention the amazing work our community does, I think this is a good strategy
17:19:00 <linuxmodder> decause,  so you don't care about the  existing  user base  do you ?  Only this new  college group that  lives in the  social realm of IoT
17:19:18 <linuxmodder> it bloody sucks
17:19:22 <decause> linuxmodder: existing users get *more* badges, not less
17:19:30 <decause> I don't understand how you cannot see that htis benefits existing users more
17:19:34 <decause> they become the example
17:19:39 <decause> their effort becomes a path
17:19:53 <linuxmodder> decause,  and most  care not about some  bloody badge we do it  because we want to not to get some  badge
17:20:02 <decause> you can look at what an existing contributor has done, literally on a daily basis if we wanted to dive that deep, and then model it for new contribs
17:20:10 <decause> we can sing praises of the folks who were already here
17:20:19 <decause> which, right now, is all a big mystery
17:20:22 <MarkDude> I think decause wants both. And a balance can be struck. Say USING a GPG key = badge. NOT creating one. Using it seems real world. Nuance but important I can see to prolly more folks
17:20:24 <decause> how is badges not doing that?
17:20:25 <linuxmodder> decause,  its  a flawed logic  still
17:20:50 <decause> linuxmodder: I am answering plenty of your questions here, but I have yet ot hear anything from you other than "I think this sucks."
17:21:13 <linuxmodder> its creating a meaningless  race condition on a  leaderboard most folks like myself  care little if any about
17:21:17 <decause> linuxmodder: give me better alternatives, give me other ideas, contribute something other than "I think this is a bad idea" please.
17:21:39 <decause> linuxmodder: you can go on about your day, and never ever touch badges
17:21:41 <decause> that is the point
17:21:44 <decause> you dn't have to  buy in
17:21:59 <decause> but when we want to point new folks to the examples of how people do good work, we can do that
17:21:59 <linuxmodder> decause,  STOP looking for  new ideas of 'tieing'  stuff in and worry more about on-boarding skills <<<   proposal enough for you ?
17:22:29 <linuxmodder> decause,  so because they have a badge  means they do it  ?
17:22:33 <decause> you keep saying "onboarding skills" what are they exactly?
17:22:53 <decause> I see a signpost of activity as a concrete example of a skill
17:22:57 <linuxmodder> on ssh and gog for example outside the core team of admins and  users  how many users ever even use them
17:23:23 <linuxmodder> datagrepthe  number of  un-used  people spaces or  planet  plugs   that  have  ssh keys
17:24:31 <skamath> I personally think badges are really cool. When I was signing up for a FAS, the only thing that kept me going were the badges. I used to set my targets using the badges. This kinda helped me understand Fedora better :)
17:24:51 <linuxmodder> decause,  we talked last week  even you and jflory7   ack'd  that  you with the time you have invested are  still  not  sure where many things are  and  jflory7  stated he had to fly by his pants more or less there is  no real structure to the on boarding and this is project wide
17:24:59 <MarkDude> Not the Biblical Baby, I think this can be divided to some extent
17:25:27 <MarkDude> Keeping Fedora elite, whilst still allowing some of us to have fun with badges. :)
17:25:42 <linuxmodder> okay seriously   you get 13 badges by merely  fully  completing a  fas profile that to me  is  non-sense
17:25:48 <decause> linuxmodder: when we talked last week, we were talking about marketing SOP
17:26:11 <skamath> linuxmodder: That keeps the contributor's enthusiasm high, no?
17:26:44 <decause> linuxmodder: I don't see the problem when it's 13 out of hundreds
17:27:04 <decause> especially if it gets a user to *actually* complete the FAS information
17:27:12 <decause> if it is a problem with FAS, file it there.
17:27:26 <decause> this is us, taking what is already here, and helping to shine light on it
17:27:37 <decause> and encourage people on what to do
17:28:00 <decause> I still am waiting to hear about your onboarding skills that we're not teaching, so that we can figure out how to provide them
17:28:50 <decause> I hear your underlying conern "we can do more, badges won't solve every problem"
17:28:54 <decause> I am there with you
17:29:01 <decause> but you gotta tell me more than "this sucks"
17:29:20 <decause> and maybe we need more time than just one meeting to figure that out
17:29:24 <decause> which is fine
17:29:52 <MarkDude> +1
17:30:06 <linuxmodder> skamath,  maybe these new  seemingly  mindless  'fb/twitter'  types but  seriously  that is  useless and  mindless
17:30:07 <linuxmodder> decause,  its spreads across all projects you seem to miss that
17:30:08 <decause> I feel *quite* confident in this path, and can go on at length about both the pedagogical and psychological merits of gamified incentives
17:30:08 <linuxmodder> its becoming its own sub culture and a  deadly  virus  one at that
17:30:21 <linuxmodder> how to actually get started right and not just well here is this  and that  figure it out yourself
17:30:29 <decause> there is no such thing as "useless"
17:30:38 <decause> everyone has a way to contribute and provide value
17:30:46 <linuxmodder> 1) almost every sub projects wiki is  scarce on  how / who to  reach out to for mentoring
17:30:48 <linuxmodder> 2)
17:30:55 * MarkDude wants to see more specifics on this, am willing to help flesh out some ideas on this (if linuxmodder desires.)
17:30:58 <linuxmodder> 2)  there is  more focus on  adding  numbers than  meaningful contribs too it seems
17:31:02 <MarkDude> linuxmodder++
17:31:03 <zodbot> MarkDude: Karma for corey84 changed to 17 (for the f23 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:31:50 <decause> linuxmodder: deadly virus? useless and mindless? we cannot describe our potential contributors in this way
17:32:19 <decause> linuxmodder: we *just* took what was on the wikis for becoming a part of each subproject *literally* copied
17:32:22 <linuxmodder> decause,  that is the  overall concept that MANY at  bitcamp had
17:32:26 <decause> and then made clear steps based on those existing things
17:33:03 <decause> linuxmodder: how is encouraging folks to fully go through the onboarding process adding a meaningless number
17:33:16 <decause> if I was just focusing on vanity metrics like followers/likes
17:33:18 <decause> then yes
17:33:21 <decause> those are vanity metrics
17:33:24 <decause> but this is not about that
17:33:30 <MarkDude> Ubuntu-ization- I think that is the word. I have NO desire for us to go that route. In some ways I think its the "slippery slope" that is a concern, not as much the NOW
17:33:45 <decause> MarkDude: we had badges first, to be clear, before Ubuntu did trophies
17:33:49 <decause> or whatever it was
17:33:52 <linuxmodder> that's just it  we in most  projects have no real path beyond a wiki and FAR too few  mentors
17:34:03 <decause> which, is more of a recognition of a methodology than a homage to fedora
17:34:17 <MarkDude> Yes decause and we never had a Jono....  Fedora++ :D
17:35:14 <linuxmodder> screw it i'm done  bothering with this  destroy the  user base as you please I  won't be helping you
17:35:46 <linuxmodder> we need to worry more about  mentoring  properly then bloody numbers plain and simple
17:36:00 <decause> linuxmodder: there is a process for adding mentors, and it begins with adding new contributors. we have to scale. we have to grow. We're making actual progress on measuring and encouraging growth, and that doesn't make less mentors, it makes more of them eventually.
17:36:06 <MarkDude> Lets talk after meeting linuxmodder if you like. More Mentors is an idea many are behind. Though it may not be "zero sum game" as far as badges
17:36:13 <linuxmodder> with the numbers we have in all projects there is no reason otherwise that  we have such backlogs
17:36:49 <MarkDude> decause: I respectfully disagree. More Mentors or mentors is needed first, IMO
17:37:14 <decause> linuxmodder: if you have a tatic/tool/idea for engaging more mentors to work with new contributors, I am *all* ears. Who do you think came up with the onboarding paths? it was the team leads themselves (mentors)
17:37:18 <linuxmodder> chiefs lead by indians is  how this path goes  decause   and that is  recipe for  disaster
17:37:33 <MarkDude> Formal or otherwise. Though the only reason there is a link here is time taken for badges
17:37:35 <decause> MarkDude: where do they come from? They don't just "appear" fully-formed
17:37:42 <decause> they start as new contribs
17:38:03 <decause> I really don't see why we are talking about growth as an anti-strategy to improving the project?
17:38:09 <linuxmodder> too many  folks are  more  about the title  imo
17:38:15 <MarkDude> Yes, as badges have told me- 10% of Fedorans have been here as long as me- 5+ years
17:38:33 <meskarune> it would be cool to have new people who join up in X time range be put into a sort of class/group together to learn and have a mentor who is available to talk with them
17:38:33 <MarkDude> We have the base to pull Mentors (or lower case mentors)
17:38:40 <meskarune> it could happen on irc or on a forum
17:38:53 <meskarune> and the mentor could give advice or challenges for people
17:39:09 <MarkDude> Mentor is long process, takes time, mentor can be done this week, easily
17:39:10 <linuxmodder> meskarune,  that's more like what I was thinking
17:39:21 <meskarune> and people in a group can support each other as they go through things
17:39:38 <linuxmodder> like the  kernel challenge  even
17:39:38 <skamath> I have to leave now. Have a great day folks! :)
17:39:46 <MarkDude> Laters skamath
17:39:58 <decause> mentors get to define these onboarding paths, or missions. Regardless of the manifestation of that path (*badge, or not) this is a way for mentors to egnage with new contribs
17:40:08 <decause> this what Mizmo's design challenges were based on
17:40:10 <linuxmodder> MarkDude,  you can find my  email  if you wanna caht  later
17:40:27 <decause> skamath: thanks for coming
17:40:39 <decause> this meeting never got closed, and probably should have been ended a while ago
17:40:48 <decause> but the conversation is an important one to be had
17:41:16 <meskarune> arch linux has been working on starting up a mentor type program, I am mentoring someone now in sysadmin
17:41:31 <decause> linuxmodder: I'm concerned about your 'cheifs/indians' analogy though, if you feel like this is a top-down strategy, then I think you should consider how much time/work/consenus went into the idea and execution of badges and hubs
17:41:32 <meskarune> and we have classes, so if possible I would like to share with fedora and others
17:41:35 <decause> years of work
17:42:00 <MarkDude> #item define Mentor (official title) vs mentor (what someone does)
17:42:02 <meskarune> I like that badges show what you have accomplished and what you can further do
17:42:05 <decause> linuxmodder: just because we're putting our weight behind it doesn't mean we've hijacked the train
17:42:36 <linuxmodder> you sure about that /
17:42:53 <decause> linuxmodder: show me where there isn't buy-in across the design/infra/leadership team
17:43:04 <decause> years of discussion
17:43:09 <decause> years of commit logs
17:43:21 <MarkDude> We need an in between, a not titled person that can help , and be pointed to and/or put on a list, similar to AW mentors
17:43:32 <decause> semesters of academic research, UX interns cycles, mock-ups, flock sessions (multiple years)
17:43:39 <decause> I can point to all of this
17:44:15 <decause> linuxmodder: I am sure about it, yes.
17:44:46 <MarkDude> Its not a choice between two things, we really can address BOTH issues here
17:44:48 <decause> and we made sure that if folks didn't want to participate in badges, that it was *not* going to stop anything else from ahppening in the project
17:45:11 <decause> it is a reflection of the activity that already was occuring
17:45:18 <MarkDude> We glossed over the onboarding process needs some love
17:45:42 * linuxmodder will make up a proposal in the coming weeks showcasing what he  thinks is  better way
17:45:50 <MarkDude> +1
17:45:52 <decause> MarkDude: sure, and by starting with a 1.0 of that process, demostrating the paths to each team
17:46:03 <MarkDude> +1
17:46:15 <linuxmodder> decause,  with little to no founation which is the core of the issue
17:46:56 <decause> linuxmodder: don't just think about this as a 'you v.s badges' idea. we want to improve onboarding, and improve mentor presence, and we all want to help you do whatever it is that you think will help.
17:47:13 <decause> this is just one way, a place to start
17:47:29 <decause> and if it means that we think of a better one that isn't this, then I'm going to support it personally
17:47:32 <linuxmodder> and a foundation less and  largely  direcxtion less one
17:47:42 <linuxmodder> its not a  me vs anything decause
17:47:57 <decause> linuxmodder: how in the blue-blazes can you even say that it is directionless???
17:48:27 <decause> there is more process to creating fedmsg hooks, that beget badges, a clear one
17:48:35 <decause> a style guide
17:48:39 <decause> whitepapers
17:48:46 <decause> 4 kinds of ticketing systems
17:48:51 <linuxmodder> onbaording is  directionless and  largely  lacking mentors but rather than fix that  the project  rather worry about  bringing in more folks adding fuel to the fire
17:48:53 <decause> I cannot abide by "directionless"
17:49:34 * MarkDude suggests the part lacking is needing more folks able to mentor and teach, and not always in a formal whitepaper method
17:49:42 <decause> linuxmodder: the mentors that we have on each team *defined* the process we're just putting badges on...
17:49:50 <decause> I cannot stress this enough
17:49:54 <decause> there is no disconnect
17:49:55 <linuxmodder> not every person or  org can thive in a decentralized mentality and that is what we largely force
17:50:33 * MarkDude learned about adminy stuff, by being pointed to admins willing to teach. Fedmsg by those wanting to share it. Were these folks "listed" somewhere I would have likely learned more earlier.
17:50:33 <decause> how is badges *more* decentralized than not having anything?
17:50:58 <linuxmodder> decause,  having  something is  not neccesarily better than nothing
17:51:03 <decause> I think it is the first time we've had a project that tries to absorb all of the subprojects
17:51:37 <decause> to quantify all of fedora
17:51:39 <MarkDude> #link https://blog.slock.it/a-primer-to-the-decentralized-autonomous-organization-dao-69fb125bd3cd#.bsqpgcxxs Decentralized Orgs :)
17:51:41 <decause> Fedmsg and Badges
17:52:04 <decause> ok, we're nearly a full-hour over, and I've got another meeting in 10 minutes
17:52:32 <decause> so unless there are concrete actionable items that can help with the gaps in this strategy, i think I need to move on for now.
17:52:58 <decause> that isn't to say that conversation isn't important
17:53:09 <decause> or that discussion isn't the stuff where actions grow from
17:53:19 <decause> it's just a fact that I've only got 10 mins left :P
17:53:33 <linuxmodder> to the channel and ML then
17:53:58 <decause> yes, lets figure out together how to grow and engage our mentor base in as many ways as possible.
17:55:26 <decause> any other open floor?
17:55:27 <decause> :P
17:55:29 <decause> goin once
17:55:53 <decause> going twice
17:55:56 <decause> going thrice
17:56:02 <decause> thanks all for being here
17:56:16 <decause> thanks jflory7 for chairing
17:56:21 <MarkDude> +1
17:56:28 <decause> #endmeeting