08:30:06 <pravins> #startmeeting g11n (l10n focused)
08:30:06 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar  9 08:30:06 2016 UTC.  The chair is pravins. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
08:30:06 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
08:30:06 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'g11n_(l10n_focused)'
08:30:06 <pravins> #meetingname g11n (l10n focused)
08:30:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'g11n_(l10n_focused)'
08:30:10 <suanand> Hi..
08:30:13 <pravins> #topic agenda and roll call
08:30:14 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2016-03-09
08:30:15 <mfabian> Hi!
08:30:24 <pravins> hi jibecfed suanand mfabian :)
08:30:24 <juhp> hi
08:30:24 <paragan> Hi
08:30:27 <noriko> hi
08:30:35 <pravins> hi juhp paragan noriko :)
08:30:39 <fujiwarat> hi
08:30:45 <epico> hi
08:30:46 <pravins> #chair jibecfed suanand mfabian juhp paragan noriko
08:30:46 <zodbot> Current chairs: jibecfed juhp mfabian noriko paragan pravins suanand
08:31:01 <tagoh_> hi
08:31:10 <pravins> hi tagoh_ epico :)
08:31:14 <pravins> #chair tagoh_ epico
08:31:14 <zodbot> Current chairs: epico jibecfed juhp mfabian noriko paragan pravins suanand tagoh_
08:31:19 <pravins> moving ahead with agenda
08:31:27 <Jobava> hi! at work, but managed to make this meeting :)
08:31:35 <pravins> #topic Upcoming schedule
08:31:35 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/24/Schedule
08:31:49 <pravins> Jobava: thanks, that very useful. We have to discuss and plan bit more for vFAD.
08:32:02 <pravins> #chair Jobava
08:32:02 <zodbot> Current chairs: Jobava epico jibecfed juhp mfabian noriko paragan pravins suanand tagoh_
08:32:13 <pravins> #info 2016-03-22 	Alpha Release
08:32:13 <pravins> #info 2016-04-05 	Software Translation Deadline
08:32:13 <pravins> #info 2016-04-19 	Beta Freeze (*)
08:32:13 <pravins> #info 2016-04-19 	Change Checkpoint: 100% Code Complete Deadline
08:32:13 <pravins> #info 2016-05-03 	Beta Release
08:32:14 <pravins> #info 2016-05-24 	Final Freeze (*)
08:32:16 <pravins> #info 2016-06-07 	Fedora 24 Final Release (GA)
08:32:32 <pravins> Yesterday there were number of milestone.
08:32:35 <pravins> Alpha Freeze - Unfortunately i missed by google-noto-fonts sub-packaging for this :(
08:32:43 <pravins> Software String Freeze - I think this is what most of the people were waiting here.
08:33:03 <pravins> Bodhi activation point - Has been activated now, i saw one package pushed for F24.
08:33:14 <juhp> aha
08:33:27 <fale> .hello fale
08:33:28 <zodbot> fale: fale 'Fabio Alessandro Locati' <fabio@locati.cc>
08:33:59 <pravins> hello fale :)
08:34:02 <pravins> #chair fale
08:34:02 <zodbot> Current chairs: Jobava epico fale jibecfed juhp mfabian noriko paragan pravins suanand tagoh_
08:34:48 <pravins> #info  Software String Freeze happened on 8th march.
08:34:55 <pravins> #topic Fedor 24 L10N test day planning
08:35:01 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/G11N/ticket/18
08:35:08 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/480
08:35:28 <pravins> After last meeting.
08:35:29 <pravins> Test day page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2016-03-29_Translation_Test_Day
08:35:36 <pravins> Fed Cal: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/QA/2016/3/29/#m3327
08:35:39 <Jobava> if I have usability issues or suggestions for Zanata, I can talk to noriko?
08:36:07 <jibecfed> Jobava: what kind of issues/suggestions ?
08:36:22 <pravins> Jobava: yes, aeng_afk is more right person. noriko can also help :)
08:36:45 <noriko> :-)
08:36:56 <noriko> am always with you Jobava :-)
08:37:03 <Jobava> most important missing functionality is terminology control
08:37:15 <Jobava> we can talk later more in depth
08:37:15 <pravins> noriko++
08:37:19 <juhp> glossary?
08:37:28 <Jobava> yes, but not just that
08:38:34 <juhp> should we ask aeng etc about putting info about fedora zanata feedback somewhere?  is it documented on the wiki?
08:39:41 <pravins> i think not.
08:39:55 <juhp> not sure about the best place to track it overall - fedora g11n trac could be one option but upstream jira ticket might get more visibility etc
08:40:14 <pravins> right.
08:40:16 <juhp> then we should document it I guess
08:40:29 <pravins> good to start with mailing list, then as per discussion we can create required tickets. trac + JIRA
08:40:34 <juhp> +1
08:41:10 <pravins> #info Jobava has some suggestions on "mission functionality is terminology control" in Zanata. Later follow up with aeng and team.
08:41:28 <juhp> missing :)
08:41:50 <pravins> yeah :)
08:41:56 <pravins> moving to next ticket
08:41:57 <pravins> #topic vFAD for Translations
08:41:57 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/G11N/ticket/5
08:42:05 <juhp> you can undo...
08:42:07 <Jobava> well, technically, all software is missing infinite functionality :)  but this is something that exists in proprietary tools and also some other advanced tools like Pootle
08:42:44 <juhp> aha
08:43:03 <jibecfed> I can do stats for vFAD
08:43:23 <juhp> Jobava, I agree it sounds needed
08:43:26 <pravins> jibecfed: excellent. feel free to add your name there. :)
08:43:33 <jibecfed> but the difficulty is to know of "Project/Document" land into F24 or not
08:43:39 <pravins> I think i can help with social media promotions for vFAD
08:44:16 <jibecfed> sometimes it's obvious, because Project's Document is like "F24", but for software, it's mostly master or version number
08:44:54 <juhp> jibecfed, good point
08:45:01 <jibecfed> should we also make objectives ?
08:45:35 <pravins> jibecfed: Can Zanata help into it?
08:45:52 <pravins> May be we can simply trac on translation done during vFAd period? Date wise..
08:46:15 <pravins> objectives for vFAD?
08:46:26 <jibecfed> objectives like :
08:46:30 <fale> we can't use datagrepper yet for stats
08:46:38 <jibecfed> 1. have websites translateds
08:47:02 <jibecfed> 2. have main tools translated (dnf, abrt, ...)
08:47:06 <jibecfed> 3. have documentation translated
08:47:09 <pravins> fale: may be some stats from Zanata server for now. This is where i have added second point.
08:47:19 <pravins> Making things ready in Zanata before vFAD
08:47:48 <pravins> i think we all need to decide what we should target in vFAD.
08:48:15 <pravins> i remember fale was suggesting to prioritize translation efforts based on available contributors.
08:48:16 <Jobava> ah, what is vFAD?
08:48:29 * fale would prefer websites and main tools for small communities
08:48:46 <pravins> Jobava: virtual FAD, this was suggested by decause during DevConf
08:48:52 <fale> big communities are probably able to do more
08:49:19 <pravins> fale: i thought its GUI for F24...
08:49:38 <pravins> Jobava: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N/vFAD_Translation
08:49:39 <jibecfed> fale: I agree, that's the aim of the different level of objectives, so we can communicate before and after about them
08:50:24 <fale> pravins: I think that software wide everything that is shipped in the Fedora Workstation CD is important
08:51:10 <pravins> yes, in broader term. But in Toyko G11N FAD noriko ani and michelle has even further shortlisted important packages.
08:51:21 <pravins> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N_GUI
08:51:39 <fale> pravins makes sense
08:51:50 <noriko> fale, just we clarified recommended work order for smaller team :-)
08:52:05 <noriko> thanks pravins for the link :-)
08:52:22 <pravins> Jobava: we need further help on coordination of vFAD. Would be very nice if you can jump in :)
08:52:24 <fale> noriko: yes :-)
08:52:59 <pravins> so does it looks good to concentrate only on GUI during vFAD or as jibecfed suggesting look on Website too?
08:53:05 <Jobava> ok, the deadline for translations is still April 4, right?
08:53:13 <pravins> yes.
08:53:31 <noriko> it would be fair to cover documentation and website as well
08:53:31 <fale> I think (at least some) websites are very important as well
08:53:46 <noriko> cz some translators prefer to specific field translation.
08:53:50 <jibecfed> websites are already "well" translated
08:53:56 <pravins> good point noriko fale !!
08:54:05 <jibecfed> shouldn't be a problem for most groups
08:54:23 <pravins> fale: noriko can you help to add those important Websites and Docs in "* Translation priority list "
08:54:28 <Jobava> and a list of priorities: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N_GUI -- that should include websites
08:54:42 <Jobava> and should not include CLI tools
08:54:51 <noriko> pravins, I feel, docs and websites do not go in the list.
08:55:03 <noriko> but there are separate list for docs, one sec.
08:55:04 <jibecfed> noriko: +1
08:55:05 <fale> I'd put docs in the end of the priority list because I think is very time consuming and of less impact
08:55:38 <noriko> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides_table
08:56:01 <noriko> it seems the page has not received update recently, so am not sure how reliable it is.
08:56:26 <jibecfed> I'm not sure Docs Schedule for F24 fit with Translation vFAD
08:56:34 <pravins> noriko: yeah, looks last update on page in F21.
08:57:24 <pravins> jibecfed: good point !!
08:57:31 <noriko> docs, and website translations are scheduled seprately, therefore theoretically vFADs for those need to be scheduled separately.
08:57:40 <pravins> #info Docs Schedule might not fit with GUI Translation vFAD.
08:58:04 <pravins> after above discussion, i feel may be start with smaller initially
08:58:09 <pravins> i.e. just with GUI
08:58:17 <noriko> i am postive docs schedule DOES NOT fit with gui translation.
08:58:25 <pravins> this is first time we are trying, may be once model set. We can jump in other sides
08:58:46 <noriko> pravins++
08:58:48 <jibecfed> pravins: ok, +1
09:00:00 <pravins> great.
09:00:41 <pravins> We all should make small groups for Task list on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N/vFAD_Translation
09:00:49 <pravins> even feel free to add more task there.
09:01:28 <pravins> I remember decause was mentioning vFAD they did for python porting
09:01:44 <pravins> Do add your name there, then we can have discussion on email.
09:01:57 <pravins> I am still not clear what should be dates for vFAD?
09:02:09 <pravins> any idea/hint....
09:02:30 <pravins> L10N test day happening on 29th March - It might be there for week.
09:02:56 <pravins> for preparation of badges, rewards, social media we at least need one week..may be more if less people :(
09:04:05 <jibecfed> I assume it would be better to have vFad before L10N test day, nope ?
09:04:26 <pravins> i feel so. Since focus will be different
09:04:43 <pravins> And Ani mentioned last time, it will be good to have translations done before testing day...
09:05:19 <jibecfed> is from 21 to 27 possible ? I mean, will the string go to repo ?
09:05:39 <Jobava> would it be possible to have an automated tool crawl through the interface, menus, subwindows and take screenshots of all of them?
09:06:07 <pravins> there is some tool used by gnome.
09:06:10 <Jobava> not all navigation possibilities are possible, but at least a menu navigation, including contextual
09:07:05 <Jobava> pravins: yes, gnome has a web tool that reproduces menus and buttons
09:07:30 <Jobava> was thinking of something, one week before deadline, produce a list of screenshots for each 'priority' project and locale
09:07:45 <Jobava> so that people can take one last look at all the strings as they look in the UI
09:08:16 <pravins> Jobava++
09:08:40 <jibecfed> good idea, but technical prerequires are pretty high
09:09:31 <pravins> Good to add this idea in https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/480  Fedora QA +FLTG can provide more help here
09:09:51 <pravins> coming back again to dates.
09:09:59 <pravins> 21-27 March looks good to me as well.
09:10:25 <jibecfed> is it realistic to expect strings to go to F24 repo for the 29 ?
09:10:53 <pravins> noriko ^^
09:11:59 <noriko> jibecfed, sorry what do you mean?
09:12:12 <paragan> the major problem we see in every schedule is that package maintainers do not pull translations/build translation in new update
09:12:18 <Jobava> is it worth to mass-mail people from the old Transifex if the haven't joined Zanata?
09:12:22 <paragan> thus we loose the updated translations
09:12:51 <Jobava> and also people in Zanata to mail them about the vFad and a link to the F24 schedule, since they may not all be subscribed to the g11n mailing list
09:12:53 <paragan> there should be enough gap/period for package maintainers to pull updated translations and build their packages
09:13:53 <noriko> paragan, +1
09:14:01 <pravins> paragan: thanks for information :)
09:14:16 <jibecfed> paragan: this is what I was worried about, how much time should we expect ?
09:14:20 <pravins> in that case, even if we do translations say by 5th April. Less change to get it in test day :)
09:14:50 <paragan> I will say 7 working days
09:15:06 <noriko> re-package with latest translation is included in official schedule, and it is scheduled right after deadline, and the duration is one week.
09:15:19 <pravins> #info difficult to get vFAD translation in L10N test day image. Since package owners might not build packages before Translation deadline.
09:15:52 <noriko> for current schedule, re-package is expected to start 6-Apr for one week.
09:16:35 <pravins> true. considering this information i think no harm to execute it by 21-27 :)
09:16:40 <noriko> praiskup, what do you mean?
09:16:47 <noriko> Since package owners might not build packages before Translation deadline.
09:16:59 <pravins> noriko: yeah, agree with you.
09:17:29 <pravins> I mean, no help in delaying/adjusting vFAD dates for getting strings into L10N test day.
09:17:40 <noriko> the image will be built for L10N test day, if this is what you are worrying about :-)
09:18:24 <pravins> less time remaining, lets move this topic to mailing list.
09:18:55 <jibecfed> can't we explain how to install pot file in L10N image so translators can try even if the translation isn't embedded it the package ?
09:19:16 <jibecfed> it's somewhere is /usr/share i remember
09:19:25 <pravins> #idea execute vFAD from 21-27 but translation may not get build by package owners for L10N test day.
09:19:52 <noriko> jibecfed, yea... there must be the way to do on local... but can't remember...
09:20:10 <pravins> jibecfed: good point again. I think we should comment idea on https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/480  Fedora QA people can help in create media with this.
09:20:27 <jibecfed> noriko: I tried once, it's not hard but can't remember eather
09:20:33 <Jobava> btw noriko, did you get a glimpse at the partial solar eclipse today? :)
09:21:04 <pravins> :)
09:21:41 <pravins> i think few time remaining for meeting now.
09:21:51 <noriko> Jobava, oh no... I missed it... actually didn't even know...
09:22:15 * noriko seriously needs to go out and enjoy the nature
09:22:19 <pravins> noriko: seems workaholic ;)
09:22:27 <noriko> :`-(
09:22:30 <pravins> it suggest me, we have to close meeting in next few mintues
09:22:32 <pravins> minutes
09:22:36 <pravins> #topic Next meeting time
09:22:50 <pravins> As we did last time i.e. execute meeting in EMEA TZ
09:23:03 <pravins> i think next-to-next week meeting should also happen in same time
09:23:14 <pravins> Good to do it in different TZ.
09:23:26 <pravins> Jobava: would you like to lead next meeting of EMEA TZ?
09:23:55 <pravins> or anyone else.. :) good to have rotating chair !!
09:24:12 <Jobava> pravins: sure, as long as I get help, I am still unsure about the workflows here :)
09:24:49 <pravins> Jobava: i am 100% available for help :)
09:25:09 <pravins> Will keep on updating tickets..
09:25:40 <noriko> thank you for MC, pravins !
09:26:01 <pravins> #info Jobava will help to chair next G11N meeting.
09:26:21 <pravins> moving to next topic
09:26:22 <pravins> #topic Open Floor
09:26:32 <pravins> I dropped few topics today, due to short time.
09:26:47 <pravins> please feel free if any urgent action required for those.
09:27:38 <Jobava> I will compose and e-mail detailing my ideas about Zanata and l10n testing
09:28:26 <pravins> sure.
09:29:08 * pravins forget to add action items now a days :(
09:29:23 <pravins> Lets wait for couple of minutes and close the meeting.
09:30:59 <pravins> Thanks you all for meeting. Lets try to make further progress on topic by discussing offline (email/irc) :)
09:31:03 <pravins> #endmeeting