13:56:50 <suehle> #startmeeting
13:56:50 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jul 15 13:56:50 2014 UTC.  The chair is suehle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:56:50 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:56:56 <suehle> #meetingname Flock planning meeting
13:56:56 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'flock_planning_meeting'
13:59:09 * sesivany is around
13:59:43 * jreznik is here, seems like he forgot to send meeting minutes last time - looking for previous AIs
14:00:20 * suehle would like to start by a status check on everything to make sure both that it's all going along and that the budget is right
14:00:31 <suehle> is mhroncok here?
14:00:42 <sesivany> not yet apparently
14:01:12 * sesivany just pinged him over jabber
14:01:22 <jreznik> for action items from the last time - http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-07-08/flock-planning.2014-07-08-14.03.html
14:01:40 <suehle> OK, let's go down that list
14:01:49 <jreznik> and planning etherpad https://titanpad.com/aDSmYhy4Lc
14:01:51 <suehle> I approved a menu, so I'm guessing lunch got booked?
14:02:27 <suehle> The etherpad says ~$2268 USD for lunch--I assume that means per day, right?
14:02:34 <sesivany> suehle: I suppose so, but only Miro can confirm it.
14:03:01 <sesivany> suehle: yes
14:03:06 <suehle> sesivany, we reserved a boat?
14:03:39 <sesivany> suehle: Miro worked on it, I gave him everything I had.
14:03:57 <suehle> jreznik, you were checking on the pub for Wednesday?
14:04:00 <sesivany> he can meet them in person and check the boats since he lives in Prague.
14:04:43 <jreznik> suehle: yeah, actually I handed it to Miro :) but it's not possible to host 200+ ppl in proposed pub :(
14:04:48 <sesivany> he was supposed to meet the boat guys today or tomorrow to make the final reservation.
14:05:08 <suehle> Does anybody have anything to talk about that doesn't require mhroncok?
14:05:18 <jreznik> but they have a lot of pubs (the pub branches) - they proposed the one three metro stops from the venue (not bad)
14:05:35 <jreznik> so not The Pub (Prague 6) but The Pub (Prague 1)
14:05:49 <sesivany> which I think is ok.
14:05:56 <spot> yeah, that should be fine.
14:06:02 <sesivany> jreznik: do you have an exact location?
14:07:07 <sesivany> ok, it's just three stops by subway from the venue, 10 minutes, that's ok.
14:08:51 <jreznik> sesivany: http://www.thepub.cz/praha-1/kontakty/?lng=en
14:09:22 <jreznik> just Miro tried to call them yesterday without success
14:10:16 * sesivany just tried to call Miro... with success
14:10:16 <mhroncok> hi, sorry
14:10:28 <mhroncok> .fas churchyard
14:10:29 <zodbot> mhroncok: churchyard 'Miro Hrončok' <mhroncok@redhat.com>
14:10:57 <sesivany> suehle: so we can go back to items that waited for Miro.
14:11:15 <mhroncok> hit me
14:11:40 <suehle> Lunch: The $2268 US estimate is per day, times four days, correct?
14:12:13 <suehle> #chair mhroncok sesivany jreznik
14:12:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: jreznik mhroncok sesivany suehle
14:12:15 <mhroncok> https://docs.google.com/a/redhat.com/spreadsheets/d/1zh50oUmb_Dukd6FyuEITQEDOfCqlnfNO7YSEZn6In30/edit#gid=1462759593
14:12:31 <mhroncok> ‏‎total: $5 626,33
14:12:48 <suehle> That's the total for all four days?
14:12:53 <mhroncok> right
14:13:16 <suehle> Do we have plans for morning coffee?
14:13:18 <sesivany> mhroncok: for 250 lunches a day?
14:13:18 <mhroncok> it's not an estimate, it'S a quote
14:13:22 <mhroncok> yep
14:13:27 <suehle> How much is that?
14:13:40 <sesivany> mhroncok: did you remove something from the menu (soup)?
14:13:41 <mhroncok> I'll doublecheck
14:14:14 <mhroncok> that's it
14:14:24 <mhroncok> for the menu in the gdocs
14:15:07 <mhroncok> it's 143 CZK per meal+soup+drink
14:15:14 <mhroncok> not a bad price
14:16:23 <sesivany> that's a nice price compared to other offers, right jreznik? :)
14:16:24 <mhroncok> what's happening?
14:16:48 <sesivany> mhroncok: ?
14:17:16 <jreznik> sesivany: yeah
14:17:19 <mhroncok> nobody says anything
14:17:35 <suehle> I'm waiting for the coffee price.
14:18:33 <mhroncok> what coffee?
14:18:59 <suehle> I asked if we had plans for morning coffee and took your "yep" to be to that, but I see it might have been to sesivany.
14:19:01 <suehle> so I'll try again.
14:19:12 <suehle> Do we have plans for morning coffee?
14:19:24 <mhroncok> nope
14:19:45 <suehle> Can we get a quote on that? People get crazy when there's no coffee.
14:19:57 <mhroncok> how do we want to do it?
14:20:02 <sesivany> I didn't know about any coffee plans either, the "yep" might have been related to something else.
14:20:11 <suehle> Usually urns of coffee somewhere accessible in the mornings
14:20:11 <mhroncok> yep was to sesivany
14:20:43 <mhroncok> I can ask Petr Hodač, he get some urns with coffee for LinuxDays
14:20:45 <jwb> with paper cups
14:20:51 <sesivany> what about a coffee machine?
14:20:57 <suehle> #action mhroncok to get coffee quote
14:21:22 * jreznik does not drink coffee... he's weird
14:21:26 <suehle> Depends on what you mean by "machine." FUDCon in Paris had a regular home coffeepot, and it was coffee madness.
14:21:51 <suehle> mhroncok, what is our final cost on how much the room space is all going to cost?
14:22:02 * mhroncok checks
14:22:37 <mhroncok> 156k CZK
14:22:43 <sesivany> suehle: there are usually coffee vending machines at universities. We might get a deal with the vendor that they set the machines to give away drinks for free and we pay them later.
14:22:53 <mhroncok> 7 735.26 U.S. dollars
14:23:18 <suehle> sesivany, that would work
14:23:18 <sesivany> mhroncok: including tax?
14:23:28 <mhroncok> yes
14:23:31 <mhroncok> without tax it is
14:23:36 <mhroncok> 129k czk
14:23:45 <mhroncok> 6 396.465 U.S. dollars
14:23:59 <sesivany> mhroncok: please keep all prices without tax, that's what matters for budgeting in Red Hat.
14:24:32 <mhroncok> I know, I just forgot
14:24:32 <suehle> Are we somehow getting it all tax free?
14:24:51 <jwb> yeah, that doesn't sound correct
14:25:13 <sesivany> suehle: it's VAT which has a different concept than sales tax.
14:25:27 <suehle> Ugh... so we have to file for VAT reimbursement?
14:25:32 <sesivany> at least here in Red Hat Czech, all things are budgeted without tax.
14:25:54 <jwb> for planning purposes, it might be better to budget with the tax included.
14:26:13 <suehle> Generally how that works is that we have to pay it all and do the VAT reimbursement request. But I haven't had to pay for this much in Europe before, so I've never done it.
14:26:41 <suehle> #action suehle will find out how to deal with VAT
14:26:48 <sesivany> suehle: it's up to you, but all prices here that go to budgeting are without VAT.
14:27:11 <sesivany> suehle: but you don't have to file any VAT reimbursement request.
14:27:30 <suehle> sesivany, then do we just not pay them the tax?
14:27:58 <mhroncok> breaking the law!
14:28:01 <sesivany> suehle: accountants sum up all incomes and expenses and there is either minus or plus and then you either get money from the government or you pay them.
14:28:45 <suehle> So from /my/ budgetary perspective, we have to pay the whole bill and then Red Hat works it out later, and hopefully it just magically comes back to our cost center in the end?
14:28:51 <sesivany> suehle: but it's not on per expense basis, it's for the whole company.
14:29:06 <jwb> vendors are going to want to be paid.  the amounts they will charge are going to include VAT.
14:29:34 <sesivany> suehle: when I spoke with our accountant and what is charged from your cost center is without VAT.
14:29:35 <suehle> OK, I'm going to do our budget assuming we have to pay tax. I'd rather be surprised to have extra money than the other way. This week I'll find out from Red Hat how it all works.
14:29:41 <jwb> so until we get a definitive statement from the finance people suehle is working with, please just include the prices for both.
14:29:58 <mhroncok> np
14:30:00 <suehle> So back to the to-do list.
14:30:11 <suehle> mhroncok, Tuesday, Masarykova kolej?
14:30:33 <mhroncok> will chyeck once we know we have money for it
14:31:06 * mhroncok just got email form The Pub Praha 1
14:31:21 <suehle> Can you find out how much it will cost, and we'll see if we can budget it?
14:31:22 <jreznik> mhroncok: nice
14:31:47 <mhroncok> suehle: depending on what we want exactly
14:32:02 <suehle> Can we get a list of options?
14:32:25 <jreznik> so what was the answer?
14:32:36 <suehle> Wait. Please stop. Let's handle one item at a time.
14:32:54 <suehle> mhroncok, Can you please get a list of options from  Masarykova kolej today or tomorrow?
14:33:14 <mhroncok> I would like to get a general idea what we want first
14:33:27 <suehle> That really depends on how much it costs.
14:33:31 <mhroncok> and I will not get anything today
14:33:35 <mhroncok> they are already gone
14:33:42 <mhroncok> tmrw might be ok
14:33:46 <sesivany> suehle: I'm not sure this enterprise is used to doing this kind of events, they probably don't have any options in hand. Do we have at least remove idea how much money we can give it to this event? That might help to work out a solution with them.
14:34:19 <suehle> sesivany, that's what I'm trying to work out. We'll go to the next nights and see what's left.
14:34:30 <sesivany> suehle: ok
14:34:34 <suehle> Wednesday, the pub. Do we have any cost estimates for that?
14:34:46 <mhroncok> give me a sec, I'll check the mail
14:35:22 <mhroncok> no charge for the rent
14:35:37 <mhroncok> minimum consumation is 40k czk per floor (they got two)
14:35:49 <mhroncok> and for 250 we need both
14:36:14 <mhroncok> and I got food options
14:36:20 <sesivany> so it's at least $4000.
14:36:32 <mhroncok> 400, 500 or 600 czk per head
14:36:52 <mhroncok> I guess all prices includes tax
14:37:45 <suehle> (40*2)*250 is 20,000, which is about $1000 USD, right? What did I miss that made it 4k? Or are you including food, sesivany?
14:37:52 <mhroncok> so it's 5000 usd at least for food
14:38:05 <mhroncok> suehle: 40*2?
14:38:14 <suehle> 40 each times two floors?
14:38:16 <spot> suehle: i think he's saying we have to spend 40k CZK in order to have them close off the floor for us.
14:38:20 <sesivany> suehle: that was the minimum to spend to get the venue for free.
14:38:24 <mhroncok> spot is right
14:38:49 <mhroncok> but if we get the food, we spend it
14:39:19 <jreznik> if not, we would have to drink a lot
14:39:37 <mhroncok> and if not, we would have to drink ~ 10 beers each
14:39:45 <sesivany> mhroncok: so the cheapest option is 400x250 = 100k CZK which is $5k, right?
14:39:53 <mhroncok> sesivany: right
14:39:54 * suehle figured out what I misread
14:40:09 <mhroncok> but they say we can create a special option - i.e. less food, less money
14:40:33 <spot> Basically, the cost is 80k CZK. We have to spend that much, right?
14:40:33 <suehle> We also have to arrange how to do drinks. Usually tickets. We can't just leave the bar open to all people can drink.
14:40:37 <mhroncok> but the food options do not include drinks
14:40:39 <jreznik> spot: yes
14:40:54 <spot> so we can figure out how to break out food and drinks within that
14:40:56 <mhroncok> spot: or at least
14:41:00 <spot> yeah.
14:41:15 <jreznik> yeah, figure out how to split food/drinks
14:41:25 <sesivany> suehle: or you can tell them to serve free drink until some limit, then everyone needs to pay for themself.
14:41:38 <suehle> sesivany, we can do that too, we just need to make sure we get it arranged
14:41:50 <mhroncok> that ahould be not a problem
14:41:55 <mhroncok> *should
14:42:00 <mhroncok> I can meet the guy
14:42:03 <mhroncok> and talk to gim
14:42:08 <mhroncok> we can limit the food options
14:42:10 <jreznik> suehle: it's usually how it's done here
14:42:15 <suehle> OK, so we have an estimate on that. What about the boat? Did that get reserved for Thursday?
14:42:22 <mhroncok> nope
14:42:30 <mhroncok> the boat, I meet the guy tmrw
14:42:45 <mhroncok> he cannot make it earlier
14:43:15 <mhroncok> https://docs.google.com/a/redhat.com/spreadsheets/d/1aNb6ZhJz3bv7ZnhvP75dWWAHoGaCGy1-kBGWR6G7mKA/edit#gid=0
14:43:17 <jreznik> but there are two options available
14:43:23 <mhroncok> this is whjat we have now
14:43:29 <mhroncok> tmrw I'll add more rows
14:45:01 <sesivany> I think the other company will have very similar final prices.
14:45:09 <mhroncok> I guess so
14:45:09 <sesivany> rents are the same.
14:45:24 <sesivany> just the Vysehrad boat is considerably more expensive.
14:45:37 <suehle> That's not an option then.
14:45:39 <sesivany> it's the largest steamer in Prague and it's the only paddle steamer.
14:46:29 <suehle> We're so over budget.
14:46:55 <sesivany> suehle: we can also pay food and people can pay for drinks.
14:47:10 <sesivany> I mean drinks in Prague are generally cheap anyway.
14:47:28 <suehle> What would that bring it down to?
14:47:55 <mhroncok> drinks on the boat are not going to be cheap
14:48:11 <suehle> With what we have discussed so far, assuming 5k for the pub and the ~11k for the boat, we are $3,000 over budget and have not yet budgeted coffee, Tuesday night, signage, booklets, or bags.
14:48:15 <jwb> are we over budget even before the boat?
14:48:27 <jwb> oh
14:48:32 <jwb> i'd say skip the boat
14:48:35 <mhroncok> +1
14:48:38 <spot> yeah.
14:48:39 <sesivany> mhroncok: don't you have miscalculations there?
14:48:46 <jreznik> well, if we're over budget, I prefer one nice event on the boat and skip the pub
14:48:56 <mhroncok> on the boat gdcos? i don't know, check it
14:49:08 <jwb> can't.  need permission
14:49:11 <sesivany> mhroncok: my bad, it's 150CZK per hour.
14:49:19 <mhroncok> i would preffer the pub where we can stay and buy relatively cheap beer
14:49:41 <mhroncok> jwb for what?
14:49:43 <jreznik> mhroncok: that one options is with unlimited consumption, isn't it?
14:49:47 <jwb> mhroncok, the gdoc
14:50:03 <sesivany> mhroncok: I'd rather have something people will remember. You go to pub parties 30x a year.
14:50:09 <jreznik> sesivany: +1
14:50:13 <mhroncok> jwb you wan to edit it?
14:50:30 <jwb> mhroncok, i just clicked on the link you pasted.  it said i needed permission
14:50:38 <mhroncok> jreznik: Cecílie is unlimited
14:50:50 <sesivany> suehle: the unlimited drink package is $6000, so it would save us a LOT.
14:50:53 <mhroncok> https://docs.google.com/a/redhat.com/spreadsheets/d/1aNb6ZhJz3bv7ZnhvP75dWWAHoGaCGy1-kBGWR6G7mKA/edit?usp=sharing
14:52:04 <suehle> My only concern is that when people go to a conference party, they expect to get at least a drink or two. I'm afraid if there are no drinks, it won't be "the great party on the boat," it'll be "that party where we didn't get any drinks."
14:52:29 <mhroncok> and it will be all around phoronix
14:52:37 <jreznik> mhroncok: :D
14:53:06 <sesivany> suehle: the rent + food is around $6000, then we can pay limited drinks on the top of that.
14:53:30 <suehle> Isn't that what the first line option is? Just a few drinks?
14:53:53 <sesivany> suehle: but 450 CZK per person for unlimited drinks is rather much.
14:54:23 <mhroncok> sesivany: it's 150
14:54:24 <sesivany> suehle: yeah, it's almost twice cheaper.
14:54:26 <suehle> No, line two where it's 250 for "Not much drnks (welcome small Becherovka, 4 small beers/wine, coffee/tea)"
14:54:46 <sesivany> mhroncok: per hour?
14:54:46 <mhroncok> let me explain
14:55:02 <suehle> The final line between the two options is practically nothing.
14:55:11 <mhroncok> boat vyšehrad offers drink packages (limited) for price per head
14:55:25 <mhroncok> boat cecilie offers unlimited drinks per person per hour
14:56:09 <sesivany> so they can't be swapped?
14:56:11 <mhroncok> we can of couse say unlimited drink only for the first hour, get drunk fast
14:56:21 <mhroncok> maybe thay can, but thta's what they have in their offers
14:56:46 <sesivany> mhroncok: let's see what the other company will offer.
14:56:57 <sesivany> mhroncok: they seemed to be more flexible.
14:56:59 <suehle> That would bring it down to about $7700 USD
14:57:37 <sesivany> suehle: what is a target price for this event? It would help mhroncok work out a deal with the other company tomorrow.
14:57:48 <suehle> If anyone has any leads at all about other potential sponsors... our budget is in bad shape.
14:57:54 <jwb> i don't mean to be difficult, but flock is about bringing people together to get stuff done.  not bringing people together to get drunk fast
14:58:13 <mhroncok> :)
14:58:32 <suehle> sesivany, basically? I'm just going to have to scrape some money out of somewhere. If we can do this boat event for about $7500 USD and not have an event Tuesday night, I think I can scrape the rest of the money out of a barrel somewhere.
14:58:56 <mhroncok> ‏‎if we het cecilie with drink package form vyšehrad, it would be $8 942,79
15:00:01 <mhroncok> $7700 is wrong number
15:00:23 <suehle> mhroncok, I was just trying to adapt your line for Cecilie with only one hour of drinks.
15:00:46 <mhroncok> ou that, sorry
15:01:01 <sesivany> mhroncok: try to work out something with the other company that would be around $8000 tomo.
15:01:08 <mhroncok> ok
15:01:11 <sesivany> and we'll see.
15:01:32 <suehle> We're out of time for this meeting. Are there any other questions we can answer?
15:02:16 <sesivany> nope, we can discuss it in the mailing list in case there are any.
15:02:34 <suehle> #endmeeting