09:07:32 <FranciscoD> #startmeeting Fedora Join IRC meeting
09:07:32 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Apr 16 09:07:32 2014 UTC.  The chair is FranciscoD. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
09:07:32 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
09:07:39 <FranciscoD> #meetingname Fedora Join IRC meeting
09:07:39 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_join_irc_meeting'
09:08:22 <FranciscoD> Please refer to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions for commands that you can use in the meeting
09:08:37 <FranciscoD> As usual, please use ! or ? to request a turn, and EOF to tell us that you're done
09:08:41 <FranciscoD> #topic Init process
09:08:46 <FranciscoD> .hellowmynameis ankursinha
09:08:52 <FranciscoD> .hellomynameis ankursinha
09:08:53 <zodbot> FranciscoD: ankursinha 'Ankur Sinha' <sanjay.ankur@gmail.com>
09:09:33 <FranciscoD> #chair bochecha amita banas Jehane
09:09:33 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD Jehane amita banas bochecha
09:09:45 <FranciscoD> chair b10n1k
09:09:47 <FranciscoD> #chair b10n1k
09:09:47 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD Jehane amita b10n1k banas bochecha
09:10:08 <anarang_> FranciscoD, I am here too :)
09:10:14 <FranciscoD> #chair anarang_
09:10:14 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD Jehane amita anarang_ b10n1k banas bochecha
09:10:28 <FranciscoD> Sorry. I noticed your other nick disconnect :)
09:10:38 <b10n1k> .fas b10n1k
09:10:39 <zodbot> b10n1k: jobo 'jiannis bonatakis' <california17@gmail.com> - b10n1k 'jiannis Bonatakis' <jbonatakis@gmail.com>
09:10:50 <anarang_> FranciscoD, np :)
09:11:24 <FranciscoD> We don't really have an agenda. It's more a meeting to just talk and come up with ideas on how we can make it easier for people to join and contribute to the Fedora community.
09:11:36 <FranciscoD> We already do have some infra in place, as detailed here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Join_SIG
09:11:54 <FranciscoD> #info We have an IRC channel: #fedora-join
09:12:12 <FranciscoD> #info We have a mailing list: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fedora-join
09:12:25 <FranciscoD> amita: You had some ideas you wanted to discuss?
09:12:37 <amita> FranciscoD, yupp
09:12:51 <FranciscoD> amita: go ahead :)
09:13:03 <amita> actually I wanted to make sure that we are not duplicating the efforts
09:13:26 <amita> but mean while to make sure that our goals are also get covered under same initiative
09:14:02 <amita> EOF
09:14:04 <FranciscoD> amita: Sure. Have you already done some work? I don't think we've done much in fedora-join other than setting up the communication channels.
09:14:29 <amita> FranciscoD, what are the plans you have?
09:14:33 <FranciscoD> I was hoping to get join.fp.o redesigned etc., but I haven't gotten down to it
09:15:13 <FranciscoD> amita: well, from the way it's been, we haven't taken any specific initiaves. We wait for people to look at joining Fedora, and when they run into us, we help them out
09:15:36 <FranciscoD> By help them out, I mean that we give them a lot more personalised advice rather than just pointing them at join.fp.o
09:16:13 <amita> so FranciscoD it seems like your SIG comes into action after the person joins in
09:16:30 <FranciscoD> Yeah, after they make the initial communication.
09:16:37 <amita> but what I wanted to do is a step before this step
09:16:45 <FranciscoD> Sure. Go on.
09:16:56 <amita> my plan is to make people more aware about Fedora
09:17:07 <amita> and specifically QA
09:17:16 <FranciscoD> amita: ah, that comes in more under the "ambassadors" project,
09:17:24 <amita> yes, may be
09:17:27 <FranciscoD> and a little under "marketing" which is a step upstream to ambassadors
09:17:37 <amita> hmm, yes
09:17:40 <amita> right
09:17:53 <amita> so I am thinking how we two can collaborate
09:17:59 <FranciscoD> amita: the way I look at it, ambassadors (and everyone in general) spread awareness about fedora and try to convince people to join the community
09:18:18 <FranciscoD> When they do get people interested in joining, they *should* point them to us, the fedora-join-sig
09:18:19 <amita> FranciscoD, right!
09:18:31 <amita> so may be I can bring in more people to you
09:18:48 <amita> and then we can kick start the things which are not in action ..
09:18:51 <FranciscoD> Sure. I've sent out a few mails to the community requesting people to direct people to us, but I'm not certain if it's been happening.
09:19:05 <amita> but It should
09:19:08 <amita> right?
09:19:13 <FranciscoD> Well, yes :)
09:19:22 <FranciscoD> Maybe people aren't that aware about the join sig?
09:19:32 <FranciscoD> The other alternative is that they're lazy ;)
09:19:41 <amita> may be
09:19:49 <FranciscoD> A post on the fedora magazine might do us some good
09:19:55 <amita> but I believe to guide people, first we need people
09:20:06 <FranciscoD> #action FranciscoD Write a post for the fedora-magazine on fedora-join
09:20:10 <amita> I have a better idea
09:20:32 <FranciscoD> amita: aye, for the moment, we do sort of have sufficient community members that are interested. I think more will join us as the channels get more and more busy.
09:21:29 <amita> so we don't want more people in community?
09:21:37 <FranciscoD> oh, we do!
09:21:48 <amita> :)
09:21:50 <FranciscoD> I meant enough people to handle the load that fedora-join currently receives
09:22:08 <amita> oh I see
09:22:31 <amita> May be we need more people to guide as well
09:22:44 <banas> FranciscoD, amita: !
09:22:50 <FranciscoD> banas: go
09:23:08 <amita> go ahead banas
09:23:17 <banas> so, I've been following up on the discussion and it's nice to see there's been thoughts going in this direction :D
09:23:23 <banas> so, just a little background
09:23:32 <banas> the other day, I was at LGM in leipzig
09:23:44 <banas> and met ryanlerch, pingou and gnokii
09:24:03 <pingou> o/
09:24:09 <banas> and I was discussing about mizmo's redesigns for fedora's websites
09:24:23 * FranciscoD is trying to look for a website that mozilla had setup for new contributors
09:24:26 <banas> soon, I wrote an email to mo, I will paste a part of that here.
09:24:28 <FranciscoD> banas: ah, yeah, I've been following the ticket
09:24:34 <banas> FranciscoD: you hit the target ;)
09:24:43 <FranciscoD> banas: use fpaste if it's too long. You don't want to get kicked ;)
09:25:04 <banas> ah, how do I do an fpaste?
09:25:40 <FranciscoD> Just head to paste.fedoraproject.org
09:26:37 <banas> http://fpaste.org/94612/76403481/
09:27:23 <FranciscoD> Ah, yeah!  http://whatcanidoformozilla.org is awesome!
09:27:32 <banas> gnokii and mizmo raised two valid points. we were at FOSSASIA and were doing a hackfest and there were new contributors
09:28:00 <banas> it took a decent amount of time to explain to them what making a fas account means, what it means to get introduced to a mailing list etc
09:28:08 <banas> when there were ambassadors around
09:28:23 * FranciscoD forks the mozilla website in the time being
09:28:43 <banas> you can imagine it takes people quite a while to figure stuff out on their own, especially newcomers to FOSS
09:29:08 <FranciscoD> banas: so, we can in fact extend the mozilla style website to also include a guided tour of how to do this stuff
09:29:26 <banas> so what gnokii said was while whatcanido is great, we could do things a little ifferently, and make the process of doing the other stuff easier
09:29:34 <FranciscoD> ie, after they've figured out what they want to do, we could go: "Ok! Let's get you started!" etc?
09:29:42 <banas> FranciscoD: yep, that's what I had kinda been telling
09:29:44 <banas> yes
09:29:59 <banas> mizmo also asked people around, and so did I in Uni
09:30:15 <banas> and the best way to get people involved seems to be somebody guiding them in person
09:30:22 <amita> banas, FranciscoD !
09:30:25 <FranciscoD> banas: ah, ok. I'm interested in what gnokii_ said. Designers generally have a better perspective than I do
09:30:35 <FranciscoD> amita: go
09:30:41 <banas> amita: sure
09:30:54 <amita> I got the idea, it is very nice approach
09:31:07 <FranciscoD> banas: we could set it up so that they can head to webchat if they get stuck on the website documented process?
09:31:14 <FranciscoD> I'll need to make some mockups to show you guys
09:31:17 <gnokii_> gwoot
09:31:22 <amita> but.. I still believe it is the best  way to get people involved is to interact them
09:32:06 <amita> It is important to publicize the idea
09:32:19 * FranciscoD makes notes
09:32:29 <banas> yes, FranciscoD, that's one way. but we need to ensure there's someone to guide them around at least till they fix one bug.
09:32:46 <FranciscoD> banas: well, I'm all for us fedora-join folks mentoring them
09:32:47 <amita> what my plan is to go to the target audience
09:32:57 <FranciscoD> it doesn't have to be "official mentoring" like the ambassadors project
09:33:06 <FranciscoD> amita: you mean physically, in person?
09:33:16 <amita> yupp, why not
09:33:25 <banas> amita: um, isn't that the kind of stuff ambassadors do at events?
09:33:31 <FranciscoD> Aye
09:33:42 <amita> I wanted to cover some colleges near by
09:34:00 <FranciscoD> amita: that'd be mumbai/pune, right?
09:34:13 <amita> initially yes
09:34:18 <anarang_> banas, can you brief what kind of stuff ambassadors do at events?
09:34:23 <amita> we can always expand it
09:34:24 <FranciscoD> I think we do already have some community there. We did hold fudcon pune at COEP
09:34:37 <amita> yes FranciscoD
09:34:41 <amita> that was once
09:34:49 <FranciscoD> anarang_: basically, they go out, hold workshops that are either beginner level or more advanced, give out media etc
09:34:52 <amita> I want to make it a regular thingy
09:35:07 <FranciscoD> amita: aye, shakti (mbuf) used to do it earlier, but he isn't active any more
09:35:08 <banas> anarang_: well I'm not an ambassador yet, but I pretty much do that stuff - so there are hackfests: people gather, ambassadors explain the idea of fedora, why contribute, where they can.
09:35:17 <amita> FranciscoD, I know him
09:35:35 <banas> anarang_: they also help you set up a FAS account, connect you to a team, find you tickets,
09:35:52 <FranciscoD> anarang_: ambassadors are the "face of Fedora" in a way
09:35:58 <amita> FranciscoD, banas , So you want us to talk to some other people in this regard?
09:36:18 <FranciscoD> they're supposed to be up to date with what's happening in the community and spread the word to people outside the community
09:36:30 <FranciscoD> amita: I think the fedora-india team and the ambassadors team would be a good place to start
09:36:35 <anarang_> FranciscoD, banas cool.. i am a newbie myself though.. but willing to contribute and spread the word as well.
09:36:50 * banas searches for gnokii_ 's slides
09:36:53 <FranciscoD> In the mean time, we'll try and work on improving the join process: so that once you convince people to join fedora, they have an easy time doing it
09:37:10 <amita> FranciscoD, and also collaborating is imp here..
09:37:16 <FranciscoD> amita: aye
09:37:21 <banas> we talk about this, essentially ;) http://gnokii.fedorapeople.org/talks/character_slide_en.svg#1_0
09:37:22 <FranciscoD> anarang_: amita : https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_Join_start
09:37:36 * anarang_ clicks
09:37:41 <b10n1k> !
09:37:46 <FranciscoD> b10n1k: go
09:38:01 <amita> FranciscoD, I read that stuff, it says you need a mentor ..
09:38:05 <banas> b10n1k: sure
09:38:15 <FranciscoD> amita: yes, but kushal is one
09:38:23 <FranciscoD> he's at the same office as you, I think
09:38:25 <FranciscoD> ?>
09:38:28 <amita> no
09:38:30 <amita> he left
09:38:34 <FranciscoD> ah, he did?
09:38:39 <amita> yes
09:38:41 <FranciscoD> I didn't know that.
09:38:54 <b10n1k> what tools do we have except the events?
09:39:06 <FranciscoD> amita: the mentorship process isn't too complicated. It's quite simple, especially if you're working for Fedora already.
09:39:15 <FranciscoD> b10n1k: fedoramagazine.org is one
09:39:28 <FranciscoD> but other than that, our communication channels are: MLs, IRC, events
09:39:36 <FranciscoD> or personal corresspondence, of course
09:40:10 <FranciscoD> amita: we have an apac ambassadors meeting on saturdays at 0400UTC. Can you come to the next one and meet the team?
09:40:22 <amita> sure
09:40:31 <FranciscoD> amita: you are permitted to request funds for fedora swag etc to use at events too.
09:40:48 <FranciscoD> amita: great, I'll drop you a mail whenever the next apac meeting is scheduled
09:40:49 <amita> FranciscoD, I did not plan at that level
09:40:51 <amita> :)
09:41:14 <amita> FranciscoD, ok, I will talk to my local office managers too about it
09:41:21 <b10n1k> sorry but i am fron mobile
09:41:33 <FranciscoD> amita: it's sort of the special status ambassadors have. Otherwise, anyone can go out and host events. (You don't need any permission)
09:41:48 <b10n1k> is there any other that we can use?
09:41:49 <amita> FranciscoD, but knowledge is must
09:41:59 <amita> I need to know the resources like you
09:42:14 <amita> to whom to redirect people for more queries
09:42:19 <FranciscoD> b10n1k: if you can think them up, we'll take a look :)
09:42:48 <FranciscoD> amita: just send them to fedora-join and we'll help them. You can ask them to contact me personally over e-mail too.
09:43:16 <amita> ok, that is a nice plan
09:43:38 <banas> FranciscoD: there's one more thing i'd like to bring up
09:43:51 <amita> FranciscoD, and also we are thinking to prepare some nice presentations
09:43:59 <FranciscoD> pingou: is the dev instance of hyperkitty still up?
09:44:02 <amita> which we can use for students
09:44:09 <FranciscoD> amita: that'll be good. There are some already.
09:44:12 * FranciscoD goes to fetch link
09:44:14 <b10n1k> +1
09:44:19 <amita> FranciscoD, cool
09:44:26 <FranciscoD> amita: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Presentations
09:44:44 <FranciscoD> also: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/For_Ambassadors/Fedora20
09:45:37 <amita> FranciscoD, yeah I am familiar
09:45:50 <amita> But I believe QA is the best way to get started
09:46:15 <FranciscoD> amita: I agree. updates-testing is a great way to begin
09:46:16 <banas> I didn't find it listed on those, here's one more with cute cartoons :D gnokii.fedorapeople.org/talks/character_slide_en.svg#1_0
09:46:18 <pingou> FranciscoD: should be yes
09:46:29 <pingou> FranciscoD: well the stg one
09:46:39 <FranciscoD> pingou: ah, would you have the link handy?
09:46:51 <pingou> lists.stg.fp.o
09:46:55 <FranciscoD> pingou: I wanted to show them that it'll be tad easier to work with MLs once hyperkitty is up :)
09:46:56 <amita> and there are less communication media on it, existing one is pretty old
09:46:58 <FranciscoD> thanks
09:47:19 <FranciscoD> https://lists.stg.fedoraproject.org/archives/
09:47:30 <FranciscoD> ^ hyperkitty demo: makes it *super* easy to deal with MLs
09:47:45 <amita> MLs?
09:48:01 <FranciscoD> amita: well, I tried to get the pamphlets etc up to date for Fedora 20, but it's more work that I can handle by myself
09:48:04 <FranciscoD> amita: mailing lists
09:48:20 <amita> okie
09:49:00 <banas> banas: !
09:49:05 <FranciscoD> banas: go
09:49:06 <amita> plz go
09:49:22 <FranciscoD> luckily we'll have the cheatcube updated soon: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/308
09:49:32 <banas> after the fedora events, there are generally lots of questions raised. some of them pretty smart ones.
09:49:55 <banas> I was just looking around, is there a way we could archive them, or is there a place it is already being done?
09:50:17 <banas> if not, I don't mind helping - around summer time though.
09:50:30 <amita> banas, we need them
09:50:31 <amita> :)
09:50:54 <FranciscoD> banas: a FAQ for new contributors?
09:51:13 <FranciscoD> a FAQ for people interested in contributing, rather
09:51:19 <banas> um, something like that yes
09:51:41 <amita> not exactly new contributors
09:51:59 <banas> that helps in two ways - one, for those who find out about their contribution points online
09:52:22 <banas> and two, for ambassadors who may be faced with intelligent questions that have been answered intelligently in the past
09:52:50 <FranciscoD> banas: can you elaborate on "contribution points"?
09:52:58 <FranciscoD> Again, I think this is something the ambassadors should work on
09:53:21 * FranciscoD wants to keep the duties of the ambassadors and other teams quite separate at the moment
09:53:26 <amita> FranciscoD, I think that is SIG can do
09:53:29 <banas> um, I by contribution points I mean those who figure out how/where they want to contribute online, through irc for example
09:53:49 <FranciscoD> Collaboration, yes, but I don't want people getting confused about who is doing what and who to talk to
09:54:09 <banas> or reading wikipages or on MLs
09:54:26 <banas> FranciscoD: fair enough, makes sense to me
09:54:46 <FranciscoD> so, basically, there's work to be done on both ambassador and fedora-join fronts
09:54:56 <FranciscoD> I can work on the fedora-join front
09:55:09 <FranciscoD> amita: banas : you'll have to get stuff started with fedora-india etc
09:55:19 <FranciscoD> they've started a monthly hackathon in Bangalore, for example
09:55:28 <FranciscoD> Similar events in your location might be helpful
09:55:32 <banas> FranciscoD: meetup, you mean
09:55:33 <FranciscoD> even FADs
09:55:51 <FranciscoD> banas: a meetup, yes
09:55:56 <banas> FranciscoD: yes, I was there at the last one, thats where I first raised the whatcanidoformozilla thing
09:55:58 <amita> FranciscoD, ok
09:56:12 <FranciscoD> banas: I'll see what I can do with that site
09:56:19 <banas> amita, you're from pune?
09:56:22 <amita> FranciscoD, can we have action plan
09:56:23 <FranciscoD> modify it for Fedora, see how it looks, may be
09:56:35 <amita> banas, yes
09:56:44 <FranciscoD> amita: sure, use the "action" command (with a #) and document whatever you wish
09:56:55 <banas> FranciscoD: yep, I have a fork too. we could use characters from gnokii_ 's slides.
09:57:11 * FranciscoD bookmarks gnokii_ 's slides
09:57:33 <amita> banas, and you?
09:57:36 <banas> #action tinker around with a join pages redesign
09:57:56 <amita> #action plan an event
09:58:09 <banas> amita: I'm studying in college (3rd yr) in coimbatore, although I kinda hang out at the bangalore events too :)
09:58:22 <amita> banas, nice :)
09:58:35 <FranciscoD> #undo
09:58:35 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by amita at 09:57:56 : plan an event
09:58:37 <FranciscoD> #undo
09:58:37 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by banas at 09:57:36 : tinker around with a join pages redesign
09:58:49 <FranciscoD> #action banas tinker around with a join pages redesign
09:58:55 <FranciscoD> that way it'll assign it to you ;)
09:59:05 <FranciscoD> #action amita plan an event
09:59:13 <banas> ah, lessons off my second fedora meeting :P
09:59:15 <banas> thanks :)
09:59:34 <FranciscoD> #action FranciscoD tinker with whatcanidoformozilla.org
09:59:40 <FranciscoD> banas: I should make mock ups first, right?
09:59:58 <amita> FranciscoD, I would like to know more about SIG
10:00:15 <FranciscoD> amita: go ahead, what would you like me to clarify?
10:00:18 <amita> so that we can include that info in our ppt
10:00:30 <anarang_> #action plan out event with amita, decide the target audience and make presentations
10:00:41 <banas> Um, yes, but from what me and gnokii_ decided: we dont want it to be like the original one in the way that, it has to be more graphical and it has to help not just with pointing to easyfixes, but also with setting up the other stuff
10:00:41 <FranciscoD> #undo
10:00:41 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by anarang_ at 10:00:30 : plan out event with amita, decide the target audience and make presentations
10:00:54 <FranciscoD> #action anarang_ plan out event with amita, decide the target audience and make presentations
10:01:21 <FranciscoD> banas: yeah, so we need to modify it to also include a "lets get you started" section at the end
10:01:24 <FranciscoD> s/modify/extend/
10:01:37 <FranciscoD> amita: a SIG is just a "special interest group"
10:01:38 <banas> FranciscoD: mockups should be a start yes. let's ping gnokii_, ryanlerch and mizmo also before we start :)
10:01:40 <amita> FranciscoD, can you please update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Join_SIG
10:01:40 <banas> yep
10:02:00 * gnokii_ gets pinged all the time
10:02:01 <FranciscoD> amita: oh, it's a wiki page, feel free to edit it
10:02:16 <amita> yupp, but any info which you are aware of
10:02:32 <FranciscoD> amita: well, the page only lists info about the join SIG
10:02:37 <banas> and one more thing - gnokii_ suggested we improve the wordings to not include stuff like "pfft take me out of here" , "this is boring"
10:02:38 <FranciscoD> which is complete , I'd think
10:02:51 <FranciscoD> banas: how about I file a design team ticket?
10:02:59 <amita> FranciscoD, ok
10:03:08 <FranciscoD> amita: feel free to modify the wiki page, or create new pages for the FAQ etc
10:03:29 <FranciscoD> banas: that way everyone will be aware of what's happening, and we can get proper feedback
10:03:34 <amita> FranciscoD, yupp
10:03:43 <banas> FranciscoD: yes that sounds like the right thing to do
10:04:23 <FranciscoD> #action FranciscoD file design team ticket about whatcanidoformozilla redesign + extension for Fedora
10:04:30 <FranciscoD> Ok, we've gone past an hour
10:04:39 <FranciscoD> Anything else, or should we close up?
10:04:48 <banas> without an agenda, that's a good start ;)
10:04:53 <FranciscoD> #action FranciscoD inform amita when next apac meeting is scheduled
10:04:53 <amita> yupp
10:04:54 <FranciscoD> aye
10:04:55 <FranciscoD> it is
10:05:07 <FranciscoD> Ok, ending meeting in 5
10:05:10 <FranciscoD> 4
10:05:12 <FranciscoD> 3.14
10:05:15 <FranciscoD> 2
10:05:19 <FranciscoD> 0.667
10:05:21 <FranciscoD> #endmeeting