12:03:09 <FranciscoD> #startmeeting Fedora Medical SIG 2013-09-03
12:03:09 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Sep  3 12:03:09 2013 UTC.  The chair is FranciscoD. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
12:03:09 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
12:03:19 <FranciscoD> #meetingname Fedora Medical 2013-09-03
12:03:19 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_medical_2013-09-03'
12:03:27 <FranciscoD> #chair sebp SSlater sjodogne
12:03:27 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD SSlater sebp sjodogne
12:03:30 <FranciscoD> #topic Init process
12:03:34 <FranciscoD> .fasinfo ankursinha
12:03:36 <zodbot> FranciscoD: User: ankursinha, Name: Ankur Sinha, email: sanjay.ankur@gmail.com, Creation: 2008-05-28, IRC Nick: FranciscoD, Timezone: Australia/Sydney, Locale: en, GPG key ID: 0xE629112D, Status: active
12:03:39 <zodbot> FranciscoD: Unapproved Groups: marketing
12:03:42 <zodbot> FranciscoD: Approved Groups: elections cla_fedora cla_done ambassadors fedorabugs freemedia sysadmin sysadmin-ask packager @gitfedora-tour cla_fpca
12:03:56 * FranciscoD thinks just .fas would do..
12:04:40 <FranciscoD> sebp: SSlater sjodogne : could you please identify yourselves for the logs?
12:04:46 <FranciscoD> Mario just mailed, he should be here momentarily
12:05:33 <sebp> .fasinfo sebp
12:05:34 <zodbot> sebp: User: sebp, Name: None, email: sebp@k-d-w.org, Creation: 2007-09-10, IRC Nick: None, Timezone: None, Locale: None, GPG key ID: None, Status: active
12:05:37 <zodbot> sebp: Approved Groups: packager cla_done cla_fpca cla_fedora fedorabugs
12:05:45 <sjodogne> .fasinfo sjodogne
12:05:46 <zodbot> sjodogne: User: sjodogne, Name: Sebastien Jodogne, email: s.jodogne@gmail.com, Creation: 2012-12-10, IRC Nick: , Timezone: Europe/Brussels, Locale: en, GPG key ID: , Status: active
12:05:49 <zodbot> sjodogne: Approved Groups: fedorabugs packager cla_done cla_fpca
12:06:00 <SSlater> .fasinfo sslater
12:06:01 <zodbot> SSlater: User: sslater, Name: Simon Slater, email: pyevet@aapt.net.au, Creation: 2008-12-07, IRC Nick: None, Timezone: UTC, Locale: C, GPG key ID: None, Status: inactive
12:06:04 <zodbot> SSlater: Approved Groups: cla_fedora
12:06:19 <FranciscoD> #topic Current status
12:06:40 <FranciscoD> I think this provides the most up to date status of the packages that we have already included, and ones that are in progress:
12:06:43 <FranciscoD> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=673841
12:07:12 <FranciscoD> The fedora-medical trac is where we started with this initially. I'm not sure if it's quite up to date though
12:07:15 <FranciscoD> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-medical/report/6
12:07:36 <FranciscoD> #info Track tickets need to be updated to reflect current state of packages
12:07:57 <FranciscoD> Here's the link for imaging software:
12:07:59 <FranciscoD> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Medical_Imaging
12:08:07 <FranciscoD> Practitioner workflows: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Practitioner_workflow
12:08:27 <FranciscoD> I think the most important ones here were freemedforms and freediams, which are already packaged
12:09:14 <FranciscoD> Ginko CAD X still needs to be packaged: I dropped the review due to shortage of time: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=726201
12:09:33 <sjodogne> The package "orthanc" is not listed on Bugzilla, nor on Trac. Should I add a dependency on case 673841?
12:09:52 <FranciscoD> sjodogne: if it's a medical package, sure :)
12:10:22 <FranciscoD> I'll wait a few minutes. So you folks can take a look at the links I've posted
12:11:43 <FranciscoD> #topic contributors' update
12:12:02 <FranciscoD> sebp: SSlater sjodogne : are you working on anything fedora medical related yet?
12:12:06 <FranciscoD> .fasinfo mrceresa
12:12:07 <zodbot> FranciscoD: User: mrceresa, Name: None, email: mrceresa@gmail.com, Creation: 2009-11-17, IRC Nick: None, Timezone: None, Locale: None, GPG key ID: None, Status: active
12:12:08 <mrceresa> Hi!
12:12:10 <zodbot> FranciscoD: Approved Groups: cla_fedora cla_done packager fedorabugs cla_fpca
12:12:22 <sebp> FranciscoD: I'm trying to help out packaging ITK
12:12:41 <FranciscoD> #info sebp working on ITK
12:12:46 <mrceresa> Hi everybody, I've just got in
12:12:56 <mrceresa> did I miss something?
12:13:00 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: A little: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-09-03/fedora_medical_2013-09-03.2013-09-03-12.03.log.txt
12:13:23 <FranciscoD> Take a minute to go through it, and you can have the floor to add everything that I missed :)
12:13:26 <sjodogne> FranciscoD: I'm the main developper of orthanc, a lightweight PACS, and I've packaged it for Fedora
12:13:26 <FranciscoD> #chair mrceresa
12:13:26 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD SSlater mrceresa sebp sjodogne
12:13:55 <FranciscoD> #info sjodogne Developer of orthanc, a lightweight PACS: already packaged for Fedora
12:14:24 <SSlater> FranciscoD: I'm more observing from the wings at the moment, a little thing called time.
12:14:26 <mrceresa> Yes no need to add orthanc as a dep, we've already got it in :)
12:14:36 <FranciscoD> SSlater: no worries
12:14:46 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: I suggested he add it so we can just follow the tracking bug
12:15:10 <mrceresa> aah okay!
12:15:12 <FranciscoD> that way it stays the one place we refer to, since the trac and the wiki are slightly more difficult to follow
12:15:38 <sjodogne> FranciscoD: I have just added the dependency in Bugzilla
12:16:46 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: for one I think we need to update the trac tickets to reflect the state of packages?
12:17:58 <mrceresa> I'm not a big fan of having the information in many different places... I'd say, let's decide on one single point and stick with it,otherwise a lot of sync work
12:18:13 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: ++. What do you propose?
12:18:38 <FranciscoD> I think susmit had setup the trac for gsoc basically. It hasnt been used since
12:18:42 <mrceresa> I personally like the wiki most because you can have tables :) but trac is good too if you prefer
12:18:53 <mrceresa> ah okay
12:19:13 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: I wouldnt mind the trac, since it'll come in handy when we finally do have a spin
12:19:22 <FranciscoD> (for feedback, and for feature requests etc)
12:19:29 <mrceresa> well i'm happy with the wiki, I'd just reorganize the pages somehow
12:19:38 <mrceresa> ah okay
12:19:50 <mrceresa> let's stay with trac if it's more useful
12:20:04 <mrceresa> just had no use case for it right now :)
12:20:10 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: I'll see if I can find time to update all the trac tickets sometime this week.
12:20:27 <FranciscoD> #task FranciscoD update fedora medical trac tickets to reflect current state of packages
12:20:59 <mrceresa> that would be great!
12:21:31 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: when we finally do have a spin, what packages do you think we need to include?
12:21:47 <FranciscoD> (We could prioritize packaging those software)
12:22:02 <FranciscoD> I mean, we aren't going to ship them *all*, are we?
12:22:20 <mrceresa> Well, I think it will depend on what we use the spin for. For me is research and processing of medical images
12:22:43 <SSlater> PIMS packages would be a good starting point.
12:22:50 <mrceresa> which basically means itk and derived, ginkocad,orthanc and FEM code and modeler
12:23:05 <mrceresa> but probably there are other use cases
12:23:09 <mrceresa> what is PIMS?
12:23:25 <FranciscoD> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_management_information_system ?
12:23:29 * FranciscoD didn't know either :P
12:23:45 <FranciscoD> SSlater: ^
12:23:51 <SSlater> For me, thigns like gnumed, freemed forms, open emr etc
12:24:08 <SSlater> Practice Information Management Systems
12:24:14 <sebp> for me same as mrceresa
12:24:21 <FranciscoD> Ok. What I hear is that we need to identify use cases. Is that right?
12:24:37 <FranciscoD> We can either have small subspins for each use case
12:24:38 <FranciscoD> OR
12:24:44 <FranciscoD> A *big* spin that includes it all
12:25:13 <FranciscoD> mrceresa_: keep refreshing this if you lose connectivity: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-09-03/fedora_medical_2013-09-03.2013-09-03-12.03.log.txt
12:25:13 <SSlater> How much makes a spin too big?
12:25:36 <FranciscoD> SSlater: well, ideally a spin should stay about 1G if we want to have a live environment
12:25:44 <FranciscoD> the installer dvd can be much bigger
12:25:53 <FranciscoD> (4Gs)
12:26:19 <sjodogne> Wouldn't 3DSlicer be an interesting candidate too?
12:26:36 <FranciscoD> sjodogne: http://www.slicer.org/ ?
12:26:42 <mrceresa_> Sure, only it's difficult to packages
12:26:56 <sjodogne> FranciscoD: yes, this one
12:27:14 <mrceresa_> but now that itk is in we can try it. Anybody volunteerings for a review?
12:27:14 <FranciscoD> sjodogne: you can open a ticket here so we at least remember it https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-medical/newticket
12:27:20 <mrceresa_> :)
12:27:29 <FranciscoD> #task sjodogne open ticket for 3D slicer
12:27:46 <mrceresa_> I think there are at least 2 use cases here:
12:28:06 <mrceresa_> a pratictioner who need management tools + dicom
12:28:23 <sjodogne> mrceresa_: The official package of 3D Slicer indeed quite heavyweight (200MB), perhaps not suited to a spin
12:28:30 <FranciscoD> mrceresa_: use #info so it shows up in the logs please ;)
12:28:56 * FranciscoD has an idea but will let mrceresa_ finish
12:29:14 <mrceresa_> sorry this is my first irc chat :(
12:29:53 <mrceresa_> #info: I was saying a use case for pratictioners with dicom software + management ones
12:30:29 <mrceresa_> #info: plus a second one aimed to medical image research with orthanc, itk and derived and software to make a segmentation
12:30:48 <mrceresa_> what do you think about it? (I'll read how to use irc in the meantime)
12:30:54 <FranciscoD> mrceresa_: how about we ship 2 spins: one for each use case
12:31:13 <FranciscoD> these will be live images, that you can also install off, just like the different spins
12:31:33 <sebp> I think this makes perfect sense, one targeting developers and the other W74KBRoq@L
12:31:37 <sebp> pratictioners
12:31:40 <mrceresa_> Sure, I like the idea
12:31:44 <FranciscoD> and, if required, we can later also create an installer image (non live) which will have both these combined?
12:32:02 <SSlater> Sounds good.
12:32:19 <mrceresa_> +1 for me
12:32:20 <FranciscoD> Should we discuss these two spins then?
12:32:35 <FranciscoD> #topic Spin 1: dicom + management
12:32:48 <FranciscoD> what packages do you think need to be included here?
12:32:53 <FranciscoD> Please use #info
12:33:35 <FranciscoD> #task FranciscoD  open a trac ticket also, so that folks who didn't make it to the meeting can comment and make suggestions
12:33:40 <mrceresa_> #info: orthanc, ginkocad
12:33:59 <FranciscoD> #info freemedforms/freediams
12:34:08 <FranciscoD> (I think they'll come in handy?)
12:34:22 <mrceresa_> sure!
12:34:33 <FranciscoD> SSlater: how are freemedforms and openemr different? They are both EMR softwares, are they not?
12:34:49 <FranciscoD> It might make sense to only include one EMR software?
12:34:52 * FranciscoD doesn't know
12:35:27 <SSlater> One of the good things about freemedforms is the drug compatibility database.
12:36:17 <SSlater> I think openemr and gnumed are more for day to day practice workflow.
12:36:55 <FranciscoD> SSlater: so, freemedforms is two part, right: the EMR, and freediams which is the drug related software
12:37:11 <SSlater> So I believe.
12:37:28 <FranciscoD> SSlater: so, would openemr/gnumed be preferred over the freemedforms EMR?
12:37:39 <FranciscoD> "default EMR"?
12:38:03 <SSlater> Depends on how important drug interactions are to you.
12:38:09 <FranciscoD> hrm
12:38:32 <FranciscoD> lets include them all for the moment. We can always cut them down if our spin becomes too bulky..
12:38:43 <SSlater> With new graduates or patients seeing many different practitioners, interactions would be very important.
12:38:50 <FranciscoD> #info gnumed, openemr
12:39:14 <FranciscoD> SSlater: Aye. We might have to fine grain our use cases further in the future.
12:39:25 <FranciscoD> mrceresa_: any other software? We have kind of a huge list on the trac
12:39:39 <FranciscoD> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-medical/report/6
12:40:01 <mrceresa_> basically the others i see seems more tailored to research
12:40:08 <mrceresa_> let me see better
12:40:50 <FranciscoD> Ah, OK. We could start with these for the time being then.
12:41:50 <mrceresa_> well ginkocad depends on gdcm and itk so they would be put into by deps
12:42:07 <FranciscoD> Yep
12:42:08 <mrceresa_> also dcmtk I thinkwould be pulled in by orthanc
12:42:19 <mrceresa_> which might make sense here
12:42:30 <sjodogne> yes, you're right, orthanc depends on dcmtk
12:42:51 <mrceresa_> because a practictioner wants to see CT images or share with a collegue
12:43:00 <FranciscoD> ++
12:43:14 <sjodogne> the command-line tools of dcmtk (especially dcm2xml) could also be useful for people dealing with DICOM in the medical practice
12:43:50 <FranciscoD> #info the command-line tools of dcmtk (especially dcm2xml) could also be useful for people dealing with DICOM in the medical practic
12:44:03 <sjodogne> in the same spirit, what about ImageJ, for the quick preview of DICOM?
12:44:26 <FranciscoD> sjodogne: is it packaged alreadY?
12:44:39 <FranciscoD> what about aeskulap?
12:44:41 <sjodogne> I don't know... Mario?
12:44:49 <mrceresa_> yep but beware it's missing all the plugins
12:44:51 <FranciscoD> "A full open source replacement for commercially available DICOM viewers"
12:44:57 <sebp> #info: trac contains a bug report about Fiji https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-medical/ticket/17
12:45:01 <mrceresa_> I mean imagej
12:45:14 <FranciscoD> sebp: i think it had licensing issues.
12:45:38 <sjodogne> I might be wrong, but I think ImageJ is the most widely used DICOM viewer in hospitals
12:45:44 <FranciscoD> sebp: yep: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-medical/ticket/17#comment:3
12:45:45 <sebp> FranciscoD: ah okay, because of the addtional plugins compared to ImageJ
12:46:26 <FranciscoD> sjodogne: I see imagej is already in the repositories
12:47:28 <FranciscoD> sjodogne: it sounds like a general purpose image too from the description in yum info imagej
12:47:53 <FranciscoD> #info imagej will pull in java
12:48:34 <sjodogne> FranciscoD: yes, but it features good DICOM support (including 16bpp), it is well known by medical physicists and medical engineers
12:48:35 <FranciscoD> at least it's well documented
12:49:41 <FranciscoD> #info imagej
12:50:03 <FranciscoD> lets start with these for spin1 then. We can modify the package list any time
12:50:12 <FranciscoD> What about the second spin?
12:50:14 <sjodogne> Fiji is tagged as "wontfix"
12:50:23 <FranciscoD> sjodogne: licensing issues. Unsuitable for Fedora
12:51:21 <sjodogne> for the second spin, I think we should distinguish the case of brain imaging
12:51:39 <sjodogne> there are a lot of specific tools for this field of research
12:51:58 <FranciscoD> #topic Spin 2 Medical Image research
12:52:09 <FranciscoD> sjodogne: all yours, what packages do you propose? :)
12:52:24 * FranciscoD is interested in brain imaging
12:52:47 <sjodogne> well, I am not active on brain imaging personnally, my interest is rather on radiotherapy and nuclear medicine ;)
12:53:05 <FranciscoD> heh, any packages related to those?
12:53:17 <FranciscoD> I'm guessing you folks want all the imaging packages of spin 1 in here anyway
12:53:40 <FranciscoD> #chair mrceresa
12:53:40 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD SSlater mrceresa sebp sjodogne
12:53:59 <sjodogne> yes, spin 2 clearly depends on spin 1
12:54:14 <mrceresa> maybe we can use groups
12:54:26 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: rpm groups? they are obsolete
12:54:28 <FranciscoD> Now we only use comps
12:54:45 <FranciscoD> which have also been restructured in F19. I still need to see how the new version works
12:54:51 <sjodogne> perhaps including 3D Slicer in spin 2 would make a lot of sense, plus ITK/VTK development packages
12:55:10 <FranciscoD> #info 3D slicer, ITK/VTK devel packages
12:55:23 <FranciscoD> #info 3D slicer will need to be packaged first
12:55:23 <mrceresa> also something to make segmentations
12:55:30 <mrceresa> #info itk-snap
12:55:43 <FranciscoD> ++
12:55:53 <mrceresa> #info seg3d2
12:56:19 <mrceresa> the problem with seg3d2 is that I was unable to convice upstream to take patches
12:56:26 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: at all?
12:56:33 <FranciscoD> what are these patches related to?
12:56:45 <mrceresa> they just want it to be built against fixed version of libs
12:56:56 <mrceresa> which is of course impossible to do infedora
12:57:01 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: less maintenance burden for them eh?
12:57:06 <mrceresa> it works perfectly
12:57:25 <mrceresa> and i use it daily to do the segmentations
12:57:34 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: are the patches too many to carry locally in Fedora?
12:57:45 <sjodogne> #info octave
12:58:17 <mrceresa> no, actually, but I fear it will diverge
12:58:50 <mrceresa> however every year or so they actualize the bundled libs
12:59:18 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: that's a tough one then..
12:59:23 <mrceresa> so it might only be the case to host them in fedora for a while and then revert them when upstream finally upgrades
12:59:44 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: yeah, that's a little extra work, but we can manage it I guess
12:59:50 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: is it packaged already, or is it under review?
12:59:53 <mrceresa> I'll thinkabout it again, but definitively seg3d2 is very useful
13:00:07 <mrceresa> I have a working spe
13:00:13 <mrceresa> but it's not polished :)
13:00:19 <FranciscoD> heh
13:00:21 <FranciscoD> no worries
13:00:31 <FranciscoD> #info seg3d2 needs to be packaged
13:00:35 <FranciscoD> any more?
13:00:42 <mrceresa> #task mrceresa start a review of seg3d2
13:00:45 <FranciscoD> Or we could move up to other details
13:00:54 <FranciscoD> #task mrceresa add seg3d2 to trac as a ticket
13:00:55 <FranciscoD> ;)
13:01:03 <sjodogne> side-note: there is a real need for an open-source visualization tool for PET/CT
13:01:16 <sjodogne> as well as for viewing DICOM-RT-STRUCT
13:01:30 <mrceresa> did you try ginkocad?
13:01:38 <FranciscoD> sjodogne: do you mean such a tool needs to be developed, or do you have a tool in mind we could package?
13:02:33 <sjodogne> mrceresa: To my best knowledge, DICOM-RT is not supported by ginkocad, and it is rather unstable on my Ubuntu box (perhaps this is just a local problem)
13:02:59 <sjodogne> FranciscoD: My point is that it should be developed
13:03:29 <FranciscoD> a quick google for "open source dicom rt" gives some links
13:03:41 <sjodogne> 3D Slicer and medInria fulfill the needs, but they are very complex
13:03:46 <FranciscoD> http://www.offis.de/en/competence_center/ict_for_smart_grids/publications/publications_in_detail.html?user_offis_pi1%5Baction%5D=detail&user_offis_pi1%5Brecord%5D=11167&cHash=3c3b69faf561ecb26522a230db5547e3
13:03:57 <FranciscoD> http://code.google.com/p/dicompyler/
13:04:20 <FranciscoD> sjodogne: dicomplyer also mentions PET/MR in it's feature list
13:05:20 <FranciscoD> the first link seems to just be a paper. I can't find the tool..
13:05:27 <FranciscoD> meh
13:05:28 <mrceresa> sjodogne: maybe you can try one and tell us which one would you like to be packaged?
13:05:56 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: do we have pydicom in the repos? I don't think so?
13:06:16 <sjodogne> yes, dicompyler is really great tool, but 3D visualization is not its goal
13:06:21 <mrceresa> I think not
13:06:59 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: it isnt
13:07:04 <FranciscoD> #info pydicom isn't in the repos
13:07:16 <FranciscoD> #info dicomplyer needs to be packaged
13:07:30 <FranciscoD> I think that's enough tools for the second spin to get started with?
13:07:44 <sjodogne> what about brain imaging?
13:08:13 <mrceresa> you mean registration or MRI?
13:08:19 <sjodogne> both ;)
13:08:30 <FranciscoD> I don't think we have anything packaged yet
13:08:41 <mrceresa> jejejeje
13:08:46 <mrceresa> #info elastix
13:08:55 <mrceresa> which is for registration
13:09:01 <mrceresa> also there is
13:09:05 <sjodogne> plastimatch is another candidate
13:09:05 <mrceresa> #info ants
13:09:34 <mrceresa> #info plastimatch
13:09:35 <sjodogne> well, Debian Med can bring a lot of ideas: http://debian-med.alioth.debian.org/tasks/imaging
13:09:47 <FranciscoD> #info plastimatch needs to be packaged
13:10:25 <FranciscoD> that's quite a few tools
13:10:41 <sjodogne> yes there are way too many for a spin
13:11:01 <mrceresa> yep, maybe it's wise to stop here for now :)
13:11:19 <FranciscoD> Once I put up the trac tickets maybe we can pick a few from there for later, as extra options
13:11:20 <mrceresa> we got some work, didn't we?
13:11:27 <mrceresa> ;)
13:11:30 <FranciscoD> Quite a lot of work actually ;)
13:11:35 <FranciscoD> #topic other details
13:11:44 <FranciscoD> First: what DE do we base the spin on?
13:11:55 <FranciscoD> gnome/kde/mate/xfce/lxde?
13:11:58 <mrceresa> gnome!
13:12:06 <mrceresa> :)
13:12:13 <sjodogne> +1 for gnome here :)
13:12:22 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: you sure? I use gnome, but it's slightly heavy and has trouble with older hardware
13:12:26 <FranciscoD> (by gnome I mean gnome3)
13:12:27 <sjodogne> ...but xfce could be cool.
13:12:42 <SSlater> I normally use KDE.
13:13:06 <FranciscoD> I lean towards xfce, which is the lightest, and most "windows style"
13:13:13 <FranciscoD> you know, panels, start menu etc
13:13:23 <FranciscoD> gnome has a slight learning curve IMO
13:13:23 <sjodogne> FranciscoD: I generally find KDE much more heavyweight than Gnome, but this is quite a mather of personal preference
13:13:41 <FranciscoD> sjodogne: aye, it's really difficult to decide a DE that'll work for everyone
13:13:47 <SSlater> What background is the target audience?
13:13:57 <sjodogne> I fear that XFCE is too close to metal for a medical audience
13:14:00 <FranciscoD> SSlater: the two use cases, who ever comes under it
13:14:16 <mrceresa> FranciscoD: yeah, maybe it's true, but I have a powerful pc at work :) I'm cool with either kde or gnome
13:14:35 <FranciscoD> the question really is: what DE do we select so *most* people from the two use cases can test out the live media
13:14:38 <mrceresa> I think practicioner are using windows and macs
13:14:50 <FranciscoD> we don't need to worry about the dvd, we can include multiple DEs there
13:14:53 <mrceresa> so i'd say kde or gnome3
13:15:15 <mrceresa> some more esoteric choice could drive people away
13:15:38 <FranciscoD> okay, lets base it on gnome for the time  being
13:15:59 <FranciscoD> that's a barebones gnome
13:16:16 <FranciscoD> no extraneous applications at all, no libreoffice etc
13:16:17 <sjodogne> gnome2 or gnome3?
13:16:26 <FranciscoD> gnome3 is what I'm talking about
13:16:33 <FranciscoD> gnome2 doesnt exist in fedora, it's now MATE
13:16:36 <mrceresa> +1 for me
13:16:55 <sebp> +1
13:16:57 <iWelcome> +1
13:17:05 <FranciscoD> #info Use gnome as default DE for spins
13:17:15 <FranciscoD> Now, we need someone who can build these spins
13:17:15 <FranciscoD> so
13:17:21 <SSlater> I havent' used Gnome for a while. Will windows users catch on easily?
13:17:42 <FranciscoD> SSlater: should be fine, they even have a "how to use gnome" thing that runs the first time you log in
13:17:43 <sjodogne> SSlater: I have some fears about gnome3, which looks more like Windows 8
13:17:44 <mrceresa> well...
13:17:49 <SSlater> Kde might be a challenge.
13:18:02 <FranciscoD> it's sort of why I was going for XFCE ;)
13:18:08 <FranciscoD> it's closest to windows
13:18:17 <FranciscoD> or the "traditional desktop" if you will
13:18:24 <sjodogne> FranciscoD: Yes, I would favor XFCE
13:18:43 <sjodogne> (sorry for changing my point of view ;) )
13:18:46 <sebp> there is also gnome3 with the "classic" feal
13:18:49 <SSlater> I only played with xfce a few years ago.
13:19:01 <FranciscoD> sebp: thats just gnome3 with extensions. I wouldn't suggest that one
13:19:14 <FranciscoD> if the extensions dont keep up with gnome updates, classic mode breaks
13:19:31 <FranciscoD> if someone wants a classic desktop, they should just use MATE
13:19:36 <sebp> FranciscoD: I know, but it's closer to what windows users except than the regular version
13:19:37 <mrceresa> okay, I think there is no real problem here, the user can change it later and we would always let someone discontent
13:19:57 <mrceresa> just let's choose one and go on :)
13:20:06 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: aye, should we pick XFCE then? as the simplest DE?
13:20:09 <FranciscoD> #undo
13:20:09 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x242266d0>
13:20:31 <SSlater> Keep it simple for a start.
13:20:34 <FranciscoD> It's only to give them a demo. They can always install a DE of choice later
13:20:43 <FranciscoD> Okay. XFCE it is then.
13:20:51 <FranciscoD> #info Base spins on XFCE
13:20:59 <mrceresa> okay
13:21:02 <FranciscoD> Now, we really need to get more folks involved
13:21:12 <FranciscoD> We cannot manage all this work by ourselves
13:21:17 <FranciscoD> #info Spin handler required
13:21:22 <FranciscoD> #info more package maintainers required
13:21:38 <FranciscoD> Please remember that you can get new folks into packaging by letting them co-maintain your packages
13:21:52 <mrceresa> I think I could get a collegue involved
13:22:07 <FranciscoD> #info If anyone wants to co-maintain my packages, they're more than welcome to get in touch with me
13:22:31 <FranciscoD> SSlater: knwo anything about creating fedora spins :P?
13:22:33 <FranciscoD> sebp: ^?
13:22:45 <SSlater> I was trying to hide.
13:22:57 <FranciscoD> I saw you hiding ;)
13:22:58 <mrceresa> jajajaja
13:23:10 <SSlater> I did attend a fedora-classroom event a while back.
13:23:11 <sebp> no, never tried
13:23:32 <FranciscoD> sebp: SSlater : how about you look into it, and let us know how it works?
13:23:36 <FranciscoD> Maybe a wiki page
13:23:36 <SSlater> But for the next few months I am stretched pretty thin.
13:23:46 <FranciscoD> ah, time contraints :/
13:24:04 <sjodogne> AFAIC, I am already very busy with the development and the packaging of orthanc
13:24:07 <FranciscoD> I'll see if I can get in touch with one of the spin maintainers and ask them to write us a wiki page
13:24:08 <SSlater> How can you package up more time for me?
13:24:18 <FranciscoD> SSlater: we can't :(
13:24:33 <sebp> FranciscoD: some material or pointers to get started would be very welcome
13:24:48 <FranciscoD> #task FranciscoD get in touch with design team spin wrangler and request a post on how the spin is made
13:25:06 <FranciscoD> sebp: Not really sure. I know you need to use a kickstart file etc. I thinki I have a link somewhere. A moment
13:25:28 <SSlater> Knowing time neded for commitments for maintaining would be useful.
13:25:56 <FranciscoD> sebp: http://spins.fedoraproject.org/support -> end of the page has a few links
13:26:05 <SSlater> Ta.
13:26:11 <FranciscoD> SSlater: well, for spins, it's mostly a one time task where you figure out how its done
13:26:29 <FranciscoD> once that happens, it's all about running the same commands again to generate an updated media
13:26:46 <mrceresa> Guys, I've to got back to work. Sorry!
13:26:46 <FranciscoD> Also, this is only until we don't have an official fedora spin, at which point, the task will be automated by infra
13:26:54 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: no worries, we're almost done here.
13:27:05 <FranciscoD> mrceresa: if you can, please do write a blog post that'll hit planet fedora?
13:27:29 <FranciscoD> We could target F21 for an official spin
13:27:45 <mrceresa> okay! I'll check the logs later on! Thanks to everybody for staying
13:27:51 <SSlater> 1 year away.
13:28:05 <mrceresa> sure, I'll send an email to you later
13:28:07 <FranciscoD> SSlater: yeah, but we'll have to propose it before the feature freeze happens
13:28:12 <FranciscoD> so it isn't actually a year
13:28:17 <mrceresa> bye!
13:28:20 <FranciscoD> it's about a month after f20 is released
13:28:28 <FranciscoD> (as far as I remember)
13:28:40 <FranciscoD> the unofficial spin can go out any time though
13:28:52 <FranciscoD> @f20release
13:29:00 <FranciscoD> ah, not fixed yet
13:29:12 <FranciscoD> I think we've coverd most of what we intended to
13:29:14 <FranciscoD> #topic Open floor
13:29:26 <FranciscoD> Please bring up anything else you'd like to, and I'll close the meeting up
13:29:51 <FranciscoD> #task sebp SSlater sjodogne FranciscoD : catch hold of any new volunteers who'd like to help and get them started
13:29:56 <FranciscoD> Anything else anyone?
13:30:40 <FranciscoD> Okay. Ending the meeting in 5
13:30:41 <FranciscoD> 4
13:30:43 <FranciscoD> 3
13:30:46 <FranciscoD> 2
13:30:49 <FranciscoD> 1
13:30:52 <FranciscoD> #endmeeting