14:00:02 <randomuser`> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 14:00:02 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Apr 1 14:00:02 2013 UTC. The chair is randomuser`. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:00:02 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 14:00:11 <randomuser`> #meetingname Fedora Docs 14:00:11 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs' 14:00:19 <randomuser`> #topic Roll Call 14:00:24 * bcotton is here 14:01:29 <randomuser`> morning, bcotton 14:02:46 * jreznik is around 14:02:49 * jjmcd 14:02:54 <jreznik> (just needs a sec) 14:04:24 * Sparks is here 14:05:56 <randomuser`> Not a lot of topics to cover today, let's get started 14:06:11 <randomuser`> #topic Follow up on Action Items 14:06:21 <randomuser`> #info there are no pending action items 14:06:53 <randomuser`> #topic Docs Infrastructure 14:07:20 <randomuser`> I'm holding the topic in the agenda almost out of habit - it seems to be in rudi's capable hands 14:07:30 <randomuser`> does anyone have news or questions? 14:10:23 <randomuser`> fair enough 14:10:48 <randomuser`> #topic #Beat Assignments 14:11:12 <randomuser`> Thanks to everyone that has taken a beat so far 14:11:44 <randomuser`> I'll send out an announcement/reminder that the beats are open in the immediate future 14:12:30 <randomuser`> there is one part here that I need help with - the hardware overview section 14:12:59 <randomuser`> jjmcd, bcotton, Sparks - where have we traditionally gotten the info for system requirements? 14:13:26 <Sparks> randomuser`: It's better to just not ask and use a dart board 14:13:32 <randomuser`> heh 14:13:34 <jjmcd> Typically we just copy the previous release, and then get beat up on by devs 14:13:52 <jjmcd> It is usually, and Sparks say, kind of a dart board thing 14:14:04 <jjmcd> because the devs don't usually agree among themselves 14:14:12 <randomuser`> I sent an email to the anaconda-devel list along the lines of "I'm writing the release notes, and want help with system requirements" 14:14:20 <jjmcd> Good start 14:14:41 <jjmcd> You might get 5 or 6 opinions that way instead of the two or 3 we normally have 14:14:52 <randomuser`> dcantrell responded this morning, saying that I should check the release notes for that info :/ 14:15:07 <randomuser`> thought I'd bring it up here before I reply 14:15:41 <jjmcd> I would expect the test guys to have the best info 14:16:18 <randomuser`> It was also suggested that I bring it up on -devel, for them to discuss various applications (desktop, appliance, etc) and requirements 14:16:33 <jreznik> -devel is not a bad idea 14:16:58 <jjmcd> Sure is a pain to wade through, tho 14:16:59 <randomuser`> I can mail the test list too; #fedora-qa has told me more than one to just try booting with my low memory machine and see what happens 14:17:35 <jjmcd> Problem is anaconda is usually the culprit, so booting a stick doesn't give you much help 14:18:01 <randomuser`> so, we have one vote for shotgunning the community, one vote for the dartboard? 14:18:14 <jjmcd> For the past few releases we can run on far less memory than it takes to install 14:18:43 * randomuser` nods 14:18:56 <randomuser`> that's why I went to the anaconda devs first 14:19:02 <jjmcd> yeah 14:19:22 <jjmcd> Of course, they all have quad-core, 16Gb machines 14:19:48 <randomuser`> as well they should! 14:20:53 <randomuser`> I guess I'll keep poking around until we get relative consensus from the community, or someone breaks my poking stick 14:24:02 <randomuser`> moving on, then 14:24:20 <randomuser`> #topic Outstanding BX Tickets 14:24:26 <randomuser`> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets 14:24:40 <randomuser`> #link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84 14:24:56 <randomuser`> Any bugs we should discuss? 14:29:30 <randomuser`> no bug complaints! 14:29:32 <randomuser`> #topic Open Floor Discussion 14:29:42 <jreznik> ok, so time for me :) 14:29:56 <jjmcd> rut roh 14:30:15 <jreznik> and back to features/changes/release notes tracking :) 14:30:44 <randomuser`> Ah - did you want a declared topic for this, jreznik ? 14:31:13 <jreznik> randomuser`: it's up to you 14:31:29 <randomuser`> #topic features/changes/release notes tracking 14:31:44 <jreznik> I created a new changes (was features) template - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JaroslavReznik/ChangeProposalTemplate 14:31:55 <jreznik> and also FeatureList is not more than list a set of changes 14:32:05 <jreznik> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/20/ChangeSet 14:32:25 <randomuser`> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JaroslavReznik/ChangeProposalTemplate 14:32:38 <randomuser`> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/20/ChangeSet\ 14:32:45 <jreznik> and the idea is to collect as much info in one place, not to duplicate the lists, got out of sync etc. 14:32:55 <jreznik> so the question is - what would you like to see there? 14:33:15 <jreznik> (this draft was already approved by fesco btw) 14:33:56 <randomuser`> I like the draft, and have no concerns about the process as you've described it 14:34:40 <jreznik> randomuser`: it's more how (and if even - but as a follow up to that old mail I think yes) do you want to use 14:35:15 <randomuser`> Although, we *could* express our expectations for the release notes section in the template somehow 14:36:51 <randomuser`> the comments in place are pretty good though- perhaps just add a sentence to let them know we don't expect polish 14:36:53 <jreznik> and for release notes/other docs related items tracking 14:37:04 <jreznik> randomuser`: ok 14:39:32 <jreznik> so please let me know - we can extend it everytime, but I really like to see change page and change set list as a point of collaboration, not owned only be developers 14:40:09 <randomuser`> I don't know if it would help to use that to track whether we have documented a change, someone would have to manually reset the marker every time they change the page 14:40:54 <randomuser`> and tracking application of the change to the release notes and all current guides could get bulky 14:41:47 <jreznik> I meant more tracking release notes owner, status etc. 14:42:54 <jreznik> one reason to do it this way would be that change set is really an updated list of changes we are really going to have in release - to avoid situation where feature was already deferred by other people were still considering it as a part of release notes, announcement etc. 14:43:11 <randomuser`> that helps 14:44:22 <randomuser`> tracking release notes owner and status is probably a good idea, yeah 14:45:07 <jreznik> if you would like to have more, or you have an idea how status should looks like - tell me 14:45:27 <randomuser`> I think you're doing a good job of planning this out, jreznik, you don't leave us much to complain about 14:45:53 * jreznik is going to merge it this week to the right place from my personal wiki namespace 14:46:17 <jreznik> (and I'll let you know when it's done - so you could edit the rn section too) 14:46:37 <jreznik> btw. the changeset is going to be automatically generated from change proposal page 14:46:45 <randomuser`> cool 14:48:34 <randomuser`> hmm... if we're stating developer and relnotes owner, we might want to track development and relnotes status separately 14:48:46 <jreznik> randomuser`: indeed 14:49:35 <randomuser`> I'll bump up the thread on our mailing list with the new links and info, perhaps the group might have more to say after digesting 14:49:38 <jreznik> the developer status is going to be tracked in a bug 14:49:53 <jreznik> so I expect the same could be done also for release notes 14:50:33 <jreznik> randomuser`: thanks for ml :) 14:51:01 <randomuser`> sure - maybe with a overall blocker bug to associate change bugs to 14:52:18 <jreznik> we can follow up in mailing list - to have more opinions (but /me would really like to see some feedback ;-) 14:52:25 <randomuser`> agreed 14:52:49 <randomuser`> #action randomuser to prod mailing list about changes process - jreznik would like feedback 14:53:30 <randomuser`> Let's give everyone another chance to bring up other concerns before our time is up 14:53:32 <jreznik> thanks, that's all from me for now but I'd like to finish the process this week, so we can start F20 planning... yes, F20... 14:53:42 <randomuser`> #topic Open Floor Discussion 15:00:09 <randomuser`> That wraps it up, then, thanks for cioming 15:00:14 <randomuser`> #endmeeting