14:00:25 <Sparks> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:00:25 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jan 14 14:00:25 2013 UTC.  The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:25 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:34 <Sparks> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:00:34 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:00:39 <Sparks> #topic Roll Call
14:01:23 <randomuser> morning, Sparks
14:01:40 * Capesteve made it
14:01:48 * bcotton is here (bus ran late)
14:01:57 <Sparks> .chair bcotton
14:01:59 <zodbot> bcotton is seated in a chair with a nice view of a placid lake, unsuspecting that another chair is about to be slammed into them.
14:02:06 <bcotton> lolwut
14:02:22 <Sparks> #chair bcotton
14:02:22 <zodbot> Current chairs: Sparks bcotton
14:02:28 <Sparks> ah geez
14:02:57 * jjmcd_ .
14:03:23 <Sparks> bcotton: The agenda hasn't been updated and I don't have a copy of last week's meeting minutes.
14:03:50 <Sparks> bcotton: So... I'll just let you take over.  :)
14:04:31 <bcotton> Sparks: sounds good
14:04:45 * suehle is here for whatever that's worth :)
14:05:10 <Sparks> woot!
14:05:21 * pkovar is here
14:05:24 * zoglesby is here
14:06:06 <bcotton> well i'd call that good enough
14:06:17 <bcotton> #info Participants are reminded to make liberal use of #info #link #help in order to make the minutes "more better"
14:06:23 <bcotton> #topic Follow up on last week's action items
14:06:39 <bcotton> i'm pretty sure i poked the list for guide updates
14:06:47 <Sparks> bcotton: You did
14:06:59 <bcotton> jjmcd_: update the install directory for the RN?
14:07:02 <Sparks> or I got the message via mental telepathy
14:07:08 <jjmcd_> negative
14:07:18 * jhradilek is here, just late.
14:08:13 <bcotton> jjmcd_: okay, we'll just let that drop then, i suspect it's a little bit late to make that change before 8am tomorrow :-)
14:08:29 <jjmcd_> I think the actual rpm was like a week ago
14:08:37 <jjmcd_> even that was later than I suspected
14:08:46 <suehle> robyn had suggested moving the deprecated features from release announcement to release notes. any thoughts?
14:09:02 <suehle> there's only one thing listed, so it's not making either one a ton longer, but length of the announcement was the motivation
14:09:13 <bcotton> suehle: it's too late for that, but we can consider it for f19
14:09:35 <bcotton> we'll come back to that in a moment
14:09:35 <jjmcd_> I expect we will have an RN update RPM in a few weeks
14:09:37 <Sparks> bcotton: We could 0-day it but that would just be annoying.
14:09:44 <zoglesby> suehle: the text is in the release notes for the changes, but I would agree that going forward a section would make sense
14:10:15 <bcotton> pkovar: did you file a bug report against publican re: global change of install dir?
14:10:41 <pkovar> bcotton: not yet, still on my to do list
14:11:00 <bcotton> okay, then we'll leave it on
14:11:02 <bcotton> #action pkovar to file a bug report against publican to see if the global change of the install dir is realistic
14:11:07 <pkovar> thanks
14:11:13 <bcotton> #topic Fedora 18 schedule
14:11:27 <bcotton> #link http://jreznik.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-18/f-18-docs-tasks.html
14:11:37 <bcotton> #info F18 final is tomorrow
14:11:53 <bcotton> any last-minute schedule discussion?
14:12:30 <bcotton> #topic Release Notes
14:12:56 <bcotton> #info rbergeron has suggested we move deprecated features from the Release Announcement to the Release Notes
14:13:01 <bcotton> discussion?
14:13:19 <randomuser> i like it
14:13:39 <bcotton> i do, too
14:13:56 <zoglesby> section 2.3.2 of the release notes has the note in question
14:15:02 <zoglesby> but I would agree that when should have a dedeicated part of the release notes for it. there is also a note about Perl deprecation in perl later
14:15:05 <claneys> hi
14:15:12 <zoglesby> so one place to see it all makes sense
14:15:22 <randomuser> i
14:15:24 <bcotton> zoglesby: would it be better to put it in the relevant topic area?
14:15:53 <randomuser> 'i'm not sure the perl example fits the mold, but a section for broader scope deprecation is a good idea
14:16:20 <zoglesby> bcotton: maybe have a section that notes makes note to see section Xfor deprectation of X feature
14:16:37 <bcotton> zoglesby: good compromise :-)
14:17:05 <bcotton> let's turn this around the other way: suehle, is there a case where mentioning deprecations in the RA would be desired?
14:17:54 <suehle> We could always just add a line under features that says "For stuff that's been deprecated, see the release notes."
14:19:14 <bcotton> okay, so are we all agreed that deprecated items belong in the RN and not the RA?
14:19:22 <zoglesby> #agree
14:19:43 <bcotton> we'll figure out the specific implementation when it's time to start putting the F19 RN together
14:20:53 <bcotton> #agreed for future releases, deprecation notices will exist solely in the Release Notes
14:20:58 <bcotton> anything else on RN?
14:21:13 <pkovar> install dir - did it change?
14:21:22 <bcotton> pkovar: it did not
14:21:23 <pkovar> was just wondering..
14:21:27 <pkovar> ah, ok
14:21:43 <jjmcd_> I should be able to do that for the first update, tho
14:21:46 <pkovar> well, not that it matters that much, but
14:22:17 <pkovar> interestingly enough, KDE is also using /HTML subdir
14:22:24 <randomuser> jjmcd_, i was looking over the d-p-r code; it seems like we could just declare everything %doc and be done?
14:22:29 <pkovar> but KDE doc is a mess i hear :-)
14:23:15 <jjmcd_> randomuser, I would hope so, but I would want to test to be sure.  I think the javascript may also need work
14:23:41 * randomuser nods
14:25:07 <bcotton> anything else on RN?
14:25:56 <bcotton> #topic /usr/share/help
14:26:05 <bcotton> pkovar: did we have anything further to discuss about this?
14:26:25 <pkovar> no, not now
14:26:35 <bcotton> okay
14:26:36 <bcotton> #topic FUDcon NA
14:26:47 <bcotton> #info In Lawrence, KS January 18-20
14:26:52 <bcotton> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Lawrence_2013
14:27:05 <bcotton> probably nothing to discuss, but here's one last reminder
14:27:08 <zoglesby> !
14:27:12 <bcotton> zoglesby: go ahead
14:28:25 <zoglesby> I think we should poke suehle and co to talk about our interactions with marketing and figure how best to work RA and other tasks going forward
14:28:42 <zoglesby> also include jreznik
14:28:57 <bcotton> that sounds like a reasonable thing to do
14:29:43 <zoglesby> we made changes to the work flow this release and we need to get the schedule to reflect them and still give everyone time to do their part
14:30:30 * jreznik will be available
14:30:48 <zoglesby> that is all I have
14:31:06 <jreznik> good idea, btw. I wanted to meet you for that reason
14:31:08 <bcotton> anything else on FUDcon?
14:31:28 <suehle> Pack your glove
14:31:29 <suehle> s
14:31:41 <zoglesby> suehle: :(
14:32:27 <zoglesby> FUDCon 2014 Cancun...
14:32:33 <bcotton> zoglesby: +1
14:32:35 <bcotton> #topic Docs Leader election
14:32:41 <bcotton> #info It is tradition that at the end of every release, the Docs lead offers up the throne
14:32:47 <bcotton> #info bcotton will be unavailable to lead the group for F19
14:32:53 <bcotton> #info Volunteers and nominations due to the mailing list by 0000 UTC on Friday, 11 January. If there are multiple volunteers or nominees, we will set up an election.
14:32:59 <bcotton> #action bcotton to post call for volunteers to mailing list
14:33:42 <bcotton> if you read between the lines, what i said was "now is a great time to throw your friends under the bus"
14:33:52 * Sparks nominates zoglesby
14:34:00 * suehle seconds it
14:34:01 <zoglesby> Sparks: you beat me to it!
14:34:12 <zoglesby> wait that sounds wrong
14:34:19 <bcotton> #info zoglesby has been nominated by Sparks
14:34:24 * zoglesby was going to toss sparks under the bus
14:34:37 <Sparks> zoglesby: It's good to have friends isn't it?
14:34:47 <suehle> Slowest typist has to be docs leader... that makes sense :D
14:34:50 <bcotton> zoglesby: no reason you can't. we can always have a deathmatch to settle it. but i think sparks is too busy being a board member or whatever
14:34:59 <zoglesby> I think there is a rule against re-election
14:35:29 <bcotton> zoglesby: by which you mean "prohibition against double-jeopardy"?
14:35:46 <suehle> Double Jeopardy is where the dollar values have doubled!
14:35:59 <bcotton> zoglesby: do you decline to accept the nomination from Sparks?
14:36:18 <zoglesby> bcotton: no, I don't have an issue with it...
14:36:31 <bcotton> maybe you should
14:36:54 <zoglesby> bcotton: but I would be happy to see fresh meat
14:37:07 <Sparks> zoglesby: If you like this idea I've got another one for you.
14:37:36 <zoglesby> Sparks: I am still to young to be presedent
14:38:03 <Sparks> zoglesby: Even better
14:38:36 <zoglesby> Sparks: this can't be good
14:40:18 <bcotton> anything else on elections?
14:40:32 <bcotton> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
14:40:47 <bcotton> #link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84
14:40:55 <bcotton> #topic Open floor discussion
14:42:25 <bcotton> nothing?
14:43:08 <Sparks> Haven't we done enough damage for one day?
14:43:12 <bcotton> never!
14:43:22 <zoglesby> Sparks: yes you have
14:43:26 <bcotton> thanks to everyone for your hard work on this release. enjoy your F18 upgrades tomorrow
14:43:45 <bcotton> #endmeeting