06:02:54 <tagoh_> #startmeeting i18n
06:02:54 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Sep 27 06:02:54 2012 UTC.  The chair is tagoh_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
06:02:54 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
06:02:54 <tagoh_> #meetingname i18n
06:02:54 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
06:02:55 <tagoh_> #topic agenda and roll call
06:02:56 <tagoh_> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2012-09-27
06:03:04 <tagoh_> okay, shall we have a meeting
06:03:22 <paragan> hi
06:03:26 <anish__> hi
06:03:31 <dueno> hi
06:03:33 <juhp> hi
06:04:06 <fujiwarat> hi
06:04:24 <pravins> hi
06:05:07 <mfabian> hi
06:05:40 <tagoh_> okay, let's get started
06:05:44 <tagoh_> #topic Upcoming schedule
06:06:36 <tagoh_> just a reminder, in planning, tomorrow is l10n test day
06:06:43 <tagoh_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2012-09-28_l10n
06:07:37 <tagoh_> good to help if you have a time.
06:07:54 * juhp guesses they don't have a fix for the anaconda locale problem
06:08:20 <tagoh_> and this gives us an opportunity to take a look carefully for rendering maybe.
06:09:08 <tagoh_> juhp: maybe. need to do some steps manually to address it
06:09:30 <juhp> yes
06:09:40 <juhp> not very easy
06:09:45 <tagoh_> right
06:09:52 <juhp> though not impossible...
06:10:04 <pravins> tagoh_: yes agree, hoping will get some bugs against harfbuzz and lohit
06:10:37 <tagoh_> pravins: yep
06:11:37 <tagoh_> okay, move on
06:11:41 <tagoh_> #topic Outstanding topics
06:11:42 <tagoh_> #info #1: FEAT: GNOME IBus Integration (fujiwara)
06:11:42 <tagoh_> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/1
06:11:43 <tagoh_> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GNOMEIBusIntegration
06:11:55 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: can you update?
06:12:42 <tagoh_> I guess 3.6 is about to be released or out already I guess. so it may be a time to update the feature page.
06:14:18 <tagoh_> and for the menu items for modes etc, apparently it seems supporting ibus-anthy only so far. as pwu concerned, we need to fix it for other engines too.
06:14:59 <juhp> what is the process for whitelisting IME menu items?  filing an rfe in gnome bz?
06:15:11 <paragan> yes
06:15:41 <paragan> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/tree/panels/region/gnome-region-panel-input.c#n67
06:16:06 <juhp> pwu won't be back until the week after next though...
06:16:20 <anish__> looks like it's impossible to add IME menu items
06:16:28 <tagoh_> paragan: not what engines appears.
06:16:51 <anish__> for anthy they patched in GNOME's shell
06:17:07 <fujiwarat> Now main features are integrated.  Unfortunately switcher UI is not implemented yet.
06:17:18 <anish__> they have hard  corded IME's menus
06:17:49 <paragan> fujiwarat, sorry for what switcher UI is needed?
06:18:18 <tagoh_> fwiw gnome-initial-setup seems not in f18. so we missed the place to set up the default engines and key bindings.
06:18:38 <anish__> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell/commit/?id=9659d934ac190a6363fc5b59f3c62ef305f56c52
06:19:30 <tagoh_> other than that, possibly a concern is upgrading. once one upgrade to f18, they may miss IM working until they do configure the input source on g-c-c.
06:19:36 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: any idea for that?
06:20:24 <juhp> paragan, i don't see any menu items in that file?
06:20:37 <tagoh_> if we have any plans for that, it should be described in the common bugs maybe.
06:20:51 <anish__> juhp, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell/commit/?id=9659d934ac190a6363fc5b59f3c62ef305f56c52
06:20:53 <tagoh_> anish__: aha. thanks
06:20:58 <paragan> juhp, menu items?
06:21:17 <juhp> paragan, yeah we are talking about IME menu items not IMEs :)
06:21:21 <tagoh_> anish__: yes, it's what we are talking about :)
06:21:26 <paragan> ok they are not there
06:21:27 <juhp> thanks
06:22:03 <anish__> actually its impossible for other IME's to have menu items
06:22:12 <juhp> hmmm
06:22:21 <anish__> actually upstream should consider having one .conf file
06:22:32 <anish__> to configure each IME's menu items
06:22:54 <anish__> in this way they can accommodate all the IME's menu item
06:23:16 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: Allll we do might be the release note. gnome components are out of our maintainances.
06:23:40 <juhp> fujiwarat, kind of wish the kana<->romaji was not exposed in the menu
06:23:59 <anish__> that is why GNOM's upstream will never white list all the IME's
06:24:10 <juhp> fujiwarat, well we can file rfe and patches to upstream for future
06:24:19 <fujiwarat> juhp: ?
06:24:38 <fujiwarat> kana<->romaji
06:24:39 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: well, upgrading issue is certainly a bug. it's not something we should write in relnotes.
06:25:11 <juhp> fujiwarat, I thought we agreed to drop the input style config from the menu
06:25:15 <juhp> but anyway
06:25:38 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: But do you mean to note adding engines & trigger keys with g-c-c?
06:26:05 <tagoh_> for menu items, would be better filing a bug upstream as long as it's hardcoded in gnome-shell.
06:27:21 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: well, the important point is to let users know IM won't work after upgrading.
06:27:32 <tagoh_> which is a bug.
06:27:50 <fujiwarat> juhp: Ah, you mean Typing method is shown unexpectedly. I thought either showing the menu or not is fine.
06:28:00 <juhp> fujiwarat, yes
06:28:42 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: or is it possible to add any migration script or so in postinst of ibus? to convert configuration in ibus to gsettings say?
06:28:47 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: ok, got it. I have no idea if the rel-note reaches the dead line.
06:30:07 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: Hmm.., can ibus beak gnome ui freeze?
06:30:16 <fujiwarat> s/beak/break/
06:30:31 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: breaks what?
06:31:11 <fujiwarat> I think changing gnome's gsetting by ibus would break the gnome code freeze.
06:31:33 <fujiwarat> I'm not sure if we can do it.
06:33:33 <tagoh_> anyone can do run gsettings to modify everything there. they might breaks something in runtime if they do unexpected things. but I don't think it breaks release-schedule-wise matter.
06:34:03 <fujiwarat> ok
06:34:36 <tagoh_> well, it's just an idea to address the upgrading issue. if there are any more better idea, I'm fine.
06:34:56 <fujiwarat> I'm not sure if we should do it.
06:35:24 <fujiwarat> any comments?
06:35:39 <tagoh_> do you think it's not a bug then?
06:36:19 <tagoh_> looks like an regression bug to me though
06:38:13 <tagoh_> regardless of how it is fixed, it should be filed into bz first anyway. I'll do that.
06:40:01 <tagoh_> anything more we are possibly missing concerned around ibus?
06:40:14 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: Do you mean both engines and trigger keys?
06:40:46 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: ideally, yes.
06:41:23 <fujiwarat> ok
06:42:02 <fujiwarat> One thing is that we don't resolve the ctrl+space between applications.
06:42:07 <tagoh_> given that users are not changing anything and using as default configuration, is it likely that any configuration isn't stored into any files?
06:43:08 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: are you talking about sharing IM context among applications?
06:43:39 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: No, no, I mean ibus, emacs, eclips...
06:43:46 <tagoh_> ah, I see
06:44:23 <tagoh_> well, we have no conclusion about it yet. so need to keep a discussion I guess.
06:44:45 <tagoh_> it's a separate issue to this upgrading issue.
06:45:38 <tagoh_> so is it all the issue we know so far? anyone has anything?
06:46:08 <pravins> tagoh_: we do have Liberation fonts issue pending, but i think will be good to discuss in next meeting
06:46:45 <tagoh_> sure. okay, it's another topic.
06:46:51 <pravins> yes
06:47:16 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: Another idea is to launch g-c-c by imsettings in the initial login.
06:48:39 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: hmm, no functionality to detect for first boot or not in imsettings.
06:49:57 <fujiwarat> Probably imsettings could create a dummy gsettings for the initial login as f17 ibus did.
06:50:19 <tagoh_> well, once filing a bug, adding any ideas there and discuss would be nice.
06:50:20 <tagoh_> aha
06:51:08 <paragan> fujiwarat, do we need to use im-chooser or imsettings in normal gnome?
06:51:25 <tagoh_> or just providing a migration script may be good in worst case. dunno
06:51:48 <fujiwarat> ibus gtk panel can configure the default engines in non-gnome-shell.
06:53:44 <tagoh_> paragan: im-chooser works on GNOME3 if a) on fallback mode b) non-ibus IM is running
06:54:46 <paragan> ok
06:55:35 <paragan> do I need to start in fallback mode to choose different IM?
06:55:37 <mfabian> What means “fallback mode”?
06:56:33 <tagoh_> mfabian: gnome-panel is running instead of gnome-shell
06:57:03 <mfabian> tagoh_: I see, thank you!
06:57:20 <tagoh_> it's rarely happening since the software rendering is enabled.
06:57:48 <paragan> mfabian, http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/3.3/fallback-mode.html.en
06:58:28 <tagoh_> #action tagoh_ to file a bug for upgrading issue on ibus
06:59:06 <tagoh_> #action engines maintainer to file a bug upstream to add ime menu items as needed
06:59:22 <tagoh_> okay, anything more?
07:00:36 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: ah, well, please update the feature page :)
07:01:13 <tagoh_> #action fujiwarat to update the feature page
07:01:18 <tagoh_> if not, let's move on
07:01:47 <tagoh_> #topic Open Floor
07:02:15 <tagoh_> anything more topics we are missing in the agenda? particularly if any urgent.
07:04:23 <tagoh_> okay, let's stop here then.
07:04:30 <tagoh_> thanks everyone for the meeting
07:04:35 <tagoh_> #endmeeting